What is the future of folk music?

Subject: What is the future of folk music?
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 11:07 AM

It is with some trepidation that I start this thread but I hope that it will be constructive and friendly. OK, here goes.....

I have a 10-year old daughter who has been brought up with folk music and loves it. She particularly likes Bellowhead, Eliza Carthy, Mawkin, The Levellers, Lucy Ward; she is learning the cello, the fiddle, the keyboard and wants to play guitar; she sees us perform and wants to do the same. But what does the future of folk music hold for her, as a listener and, perhaps, as a performer?

Now that the 'music-makers' who have been 'the movers and shakers, of the world forever, it seems' are getting older and passing on, will the battlelines between 'traditional' and 'contemporary' that we see on this board and elsewhere start to merge? Will 'folk' music itself, or whatever you choose to call it, become more a part of the mainstream music scene or still maintain its own identity as a genre? Will the youngsters listen to what we have to say or just go right ahead and plough their own furrows?

Do you have kids? Are they interested in folk music? If so, what musical future do you wish for them?

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 11:17 AM

My youngest (24 years old now!) twins are really heavily into folk music. They both loved Goth and Emo until a few years ago when they just seem to switch overnight. Their collection has far exceeded mine and the scope covers some traditional stuff that I found too heavy myself! Maybe it is the trad. ballads that attracted their attention when in the doom and gloom stage:-)

I am pretty sure they would have heard of it even if I was not around but them coming along to festvals and clubs certainly opened a lot of doors for them. Reciprocaly I have been introduced to artists I may not have heard if not for them and that, in turn, has affected my tastes!

I have every faith that folk music (whatever it is - don't start that again!) will survive. Maybe not as we know it at times but it will go on as long as people want to sing:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Banjiman
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 11:22 AM

Fisherman's Friend I would have thought........or is that the past coming round again?

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 12:33 PM

I just saw a video which said that Martin makes 80,000 guitars a year. Someone's buying them and someone's playing them. I conclude that one way or another, folk music will always be with us.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 12:40 PM

Guitar? Flamenco maybe, but not necessary folk.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 12:43 PM

More Unis are holding Degree courses in various forms of 'Folk' , so there IS a lot of 'young' interest ! It should last me out , any way !

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 12:52 PM

One of the upsides of music sharing is that young people are exploring a far wider range of music than used to be the case and their interests may include folk as well as a lot of other things. When I was younger most people's listening habits seemed far more polarised (apart from a few enthusiasts), so far as I can recall. So youngsters today seem to be far more open to folk music, without necessarily becoming folkies but also judging it on its merits without "finger in the ear" prejudices.

Secondly, there are a lot of young people playing the music, and not just those on the Newcastle course. I sometimes visit a session in Manchester which has a lot of students from the university.

Thirdly, a lot of the young musicians are doing some very exciting things with the music, and a lot of it is based on traditional material. Not all of it is to my taste, but that's not the point. They're using folk to make some very exciting music.

It will always be a niche genre, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing if it allows us to keep more control over the music we play and listen to.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: glueman
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 01:20 PM

"Do you have kids? Are they interested in folk music?"

Yes and yes. The internet age has delivered a wealth of readily accessible information on folk music which kids can readily access. My guess is the playing and appreciation of folk music will grow stronger and take its place among more recent traditions such as rock music.

The 100% dyed in the wool folk fan may become a rarer beast as the 50s and 60s revivalists pass on but I beliieve folk music's popularity will increase as new perspectives and artists come along.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 01:23 PM

My daughter (when she was fifteen in 1995) introduced me to the following traditional songs. The Bonnie Earl O' Moray, The Twa Corbies, High Barbary, The Burning of Auchindoun. I am sure there were many others.   

These she learned from Society of Creative Anachronism bards as she went with her high school SCA group to events around Virginia and North Carolina. She later became an apprentice to a bard while she studied vocal performance at university.

I have no doubt that to this day she would still be learning and performing "folk" were she still alive. I like to think she still is learning and performing it somewhere.

Her younger sister (now 25, who also was part of the SCA in high school) will tolerate the genre in certain settings, but it makes her remember singing with her older sister and so I think she mostly avoids it.

The SCA still attracts members so the music will continue in that vein. I understand that LARP also boasts some singers of trad song.

May help if celebrities get involved as with this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7521000/7521051.stm

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 02:17 PM

The future encompasses the past songs from tradition and "newer" songs which will pass into the folk repertoire, which have passed the tests of time

Musicianship of the younger players and singers has to my mind got much better over the last 30 years

Song is a different matter, but historical songs and songs about the recent past, such as loss of traditional industry and union conflict stand a good chance if they have been written well and become popular

What is required is probably more audiences,and more regular venues

This is counter to present conditions are pubs entertainment licences, PRS, car tax and beer prices

Ray

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: MikeL2
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 03:57 PM

hi

I agree with the view that folk music will continue to be played by the children and grandchildren of today and tomorrow.

There are far more children playing instruments today than ever. I live near to a comprehensive school and every day I see scores of kids carrying all kinds of instruments. Ok the guitar and violin/fiddle appear to be the most popular but there are many others.

Certainly in my time this was not the case. My sister and I came from musical parents but we were about the only kids of our age in the whole school that had our own instruments. The school did have some.

I sometimes pop in to the school here and I am amazed at the standard that some of these pupils are performing at.

OK most of what I hear is classical music with some folk inspired songs and tunes.

The standard is much higher than I remember even when my son was at school.

IMHO these kids will go their own way once they leave school and the music will be influenced greatly by them.

This is a good thing as music will be kept fresh and challenging.

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 06:41 PM

To be honest I think the best you can do is pay for the lessons, buy or rent the instruments cross your fingers and hope for the best!! :-)

There is nothing I can say or do to predict the future with any certainty that I am aware of.

But I will say that with some musical skill the world is her lobster. I have none and folk music has opened all sorts of doors. What I would have done with talent I could not even begin to guess....

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 06:50 PM

I think the most important thing is to ensure that everyone is offered ready and easy access to "the music of the people" which belongs to all: feral folkie, inner-city kid, and middle class professional alike.

Access, access, access to all please. It's the only thing I give a shite about.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: squeezeboxhp
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:19 PM

some of the younger players make me feel like chopping my box up and hoping i will get that good eventually FOLK will always progress not always as we would expect it like this Cornish shanty crew finding popularity in UK all old gits but it may encourage new interest!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: EnglishFolkfan
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:24 PM

Thanks that the financial access to musical instruments becoming easier for the youth of today and the wonder of the world wide web as a repository of the Folk past in words, sound and pictures it is very doubtful that this genre will ever 'fade away'. Change it shall but the constant looking back by musicians for influence & ideas means that today a 4 year old girl with a home karaoke singing her little heart out isn't going to be afraid in 10 or 20 years time to explore the world of music and find her own voice writing & singing in the 'folk idiom'.

Indeed just tonight Jim Moray, Jackie Oates & The Unthanks will be performing in Austin Texas at SXSW with the musical label 'World' and not 'Folk' alongside their names on the listings, so maybe the genre label will change but not the music?

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:36 PM

Gimme the good stuff the old gits made, and young bloods that the old gits hate. You're fairly sure of something constructive arriving out of a decent clash between the two. Please don't give me music that the old gits approve of ever.. ever.. especially 'dadfolk' Nooooooooooooooooo...
Following the example in other arts, young artists should return to the source material and think afresh once again. No more revivals, but more correctly a return and hybrid rebirth.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Bert
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 09:10 PM

If you teach her songwriting the SHE will be the future of folk music.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: GUEST,Stephanie P. Ledgin
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 10:06 PM

I address this topic in Discovering Folk Music, particularly speaking to it being in the hands of our children/grandchildren. But that it is our responsibility to pass on folk music, be it trad, "new" folk, alt-folk, etc. Folk music is by and for people, who will always make music, therefore always will be with us in some form!

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: EnglishFolkfan
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 10:39 PM

A tweet rec'd 12.30am in UK from @allsongs (npr.com/music) commentating at SXSW

"Walked across the highway and in a big lot filled with people Billy Bragg was singing " there is Power in a Union". Gave me goosebumps."

Folk is music of/by/for the people and that's one "Old Git' busy inspiring 'Young Blood'!

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: 10r
Date: 20 Mar 10 - 03:04 AM

Have to disagree with the folks that say it's our children
learning folk music, but it may be one part of it. Personally speaking, I think a lot of us have been busy saving the world, putting a roof over our heads,putting food on the table, supporting our local communities, and raising our kids.
Now some of us have some more time on our hands and want to get
back to what we learned and were singing 30 or 40 years ago.
I'm one of those people who recently bought a new Martin guitar
(as someone mentioned above, they are selling a lot these days)
and am playing that folk music again.
Hence, we're playing out, having song circles or joining in on
jam or whatever nights, and having a great time and keeping the
spirit alive.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Mar 10 - 04:55 AM

Thanks for your views - really gratifying to hear a generally optimistic tone. I look forward to a dotage of listening to a wide variety of interpretations from kids who, judging by the comments above, will have had a good grounding in musicianship and the folk tradition from you lot.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Mar 10 - 02:51 PM

Jim, Flamenco is folk music. It comes from the Andulusian (sp?) Gypsies in Spain who live in caves.

The future of folk music is what it has always been, an international and intercultural
mode of expression by untrained musicians who come from traditions based on
sub-cultural and national groups of people around the world. Of course, "training" might
be construed to be absorbing the musical traditions of these sub-cultures.

It will always be with us though not necessarily found in the urban centers.

The world is rich with folk traditions that remain alive with the cultural and national sub-groups that preserve it.

It is a "well" that musical people can go to. Composers, songwriters, every kind of
singer can visit and be nourished.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 10 - 04:32 PM

"Jim, Flamenco is folk music. It comes from the Andulusian"
Am aware of that Stringsinger - I was assuming that the question was about English singing.
My comment was based on my opinion that far too much stress is put on guitar accompaniment, which IMO, is given far more attention than it merits.
If all the guitars were to disappear overnight I have little doubt that singers would manage quite well without them and find a suitable substitute, were one considered necessary - nothing as beautiful as the unadorned human voice when well used as far as I'm concerned.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: GUEST,Mouldy Bob
Date: 20 Mar 10 - 04:46 PM

I wonder what instrument would take over should guitars somehow disappear or were banned? I guess, out of fairness, any guitar hybrids should be included in the cull. I suspect the bouzouki would win out. Small, portable, easy to strum along on, similar range as an average guitar. But, if bouzouki's / banjo's etc were also zapped, I'd fear the rise of the cheap electronic keyboard. Gosh, I hope it doesn't happen, although a Bontempi bossanova version of Tam Lin may be worth hearing. Unless Jim Moray's already done one I should know about?

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 05:05 AM

"should guitars somehow disappear or were banned?"
Why should they - nobody has suggested it here - have they?
If any instrument is needed there are plenty more - the concertina, psaltry, hurdy-gurdy, whistle and flute (with a little help from my friends)... that are more versatile and lend themselves far more readily to narrative songs.
My reservation about guitars - all accompanying instruments really - is when they don't (accompany, that is); long, over-indulgent guitar breaks that the singer has to climb over to reach the next line, making it necessary for the listener to break into a run to keep up with the plot IMO don't help the appreciation of the song. Or when the singing follows the accompaniment rather than letting the accompaniment - well, accompany, making every song sound like a hauling shanty.
One of the worst examples of bad manners I have witnessed is when a song is sung in a music session and a musician (who may be listening to a song for the first time), insists on joining in. This happened recently at a music week-end with a melodeon player who, even after the organiser asked him to stop, persisted, totally nausing up several songs.
IMO too often the instrumentation of songs is the object of the exercise rather than the passing on of the song.
And then there's the phantom whistler.... but that's another story!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: GUEST,Dave (Bridge)
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 06:25 AM

Regularly at the Bridge Folk Club in Newcastle UK, there is a night of performance from the students on the folk degree course. They level of talent and enthusiasm and research there is in their music and song is incredible. When I originally looked around the audience and saw all the geay hair I was concerned. Not any more. I think 'folk' is in good hands

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 08:43 AM

I do not know.
give me a crystal ball.and I will tell you,I will also tell you what will win the cheltenham gold cup,still i did that without a crystal ball,and got it right.
Jim has a good point,which really applies to all instruments, accompaniment should be just that, accompaniment,simplicity and sympathy with the song is paramount,however to acheive this requires a lot of practice, the performer needs to feel happy with his competence and feel that the instrument is an extension of themselves

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 10:02 AM

It's absolutely acceptable to bring to folk music any instrument that is to hand.In the past, and in various situations, that has been the fiddle, the concertina, the whistle, the harp or whatever. Today (and, I suspect, in the future) the most popular intrument is the guitar. Therefore, it's safe to say that its place in folk music in the future is pretty much assured - and a good thing too. To dictate how instruments are used in perfroming folk music and song is to completely miss the point. In order for the music to survive and maintain its vibrancy, youngsters need to be able to perform it in the way they want to - and, of course, they will, when all of us here are long gone. Just been listening to Ian King - very interesting take on traditional songs.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 11:30 AM

quite true leveller,but do you not agree that accompaniment should be accompaniment ,that lyrics should be of number one importance,so they must be audible above accompaniment.
performers are free to perform how they want,but whether anyone wants to listen to them is another matter.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: deepdoc1
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 12:08 PM

Did somebody say guitar? How about a Strat or Les Paul as folk instruments...

Thin Lizzy
Van Morrison
The Byrds
Jerry Garcia
etc., etc., etc.

Just a few of the young groups who have brought traditional/folk music to masses of young listeners. This is not a fully researched idea, just the seeds of a thought, that the traditions of the past will always have an effect on the present/future. There will always be folk about who can 'freshen up' the past and present it in palatable form to current generations...though not alway as enjoyable to the more traditional. Those who are touched by the traditional will find more, and the dance goes on....

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 12:08 PM

"To dictate how instruments are used in perfroming folk music and song is to completely miss the point."
Nobody is dictating anything, but to suggest that anybody - singer, instrumentalist, is above criticism an that the average listener has no right to comment on what he or she listens to is a sure-fire way of creating an ivory-tower elite which would kill any music, whatever type, stone dead.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 12:56 PM

deepdoc1
It's hard to cunceive how any of the above list can be said to have "brought traditional/folk music to masses of young listeners."
Wonder if you could elucidate.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: deepdoc1
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 01:19 PM

"This is not a fully researched idea, just the seeds of a thought,"

Thin Lizzy and Van Morrison popped into my head from watching a PBS show on Irish music the other day. They were credited with bringing things like Whiskey in the Jar, etc., to the early rock crowd. The Byrds (Roger McGuinn, mostly) were also influenced by folk music. Jerry Garcia has done quite a bit of un-Dead work recording traditional mountain folk music and ballads along with David Grisman and others. As mentioned, this is hardly a mature idea, just a talking point for discussion. I have heard tracks by groups like Credence (among others) that have sent me scurrying after other versions and backstory which has led me to other traditional music in a frenzy of discovery. I think it works the same for others who weren't into folk from an early age. Thoughts?

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 01:43 PM

"that lyrics should be of number one importance,so they must be audible above accompaniment.
"

Completely agree with that. Bloody 'ell I'd get a right mouthful if I drowned out my missus! WhatI try to do is complement her voice!

"to suggest that anybody - singer, instrumentalist, is above criticism an that the average listener has no right to comment on what he or she listens to is a sure-fire way of creating an ivory-tower elite which would kill any music"

Err, I wasn't suggesting that. People like what they like. In the end, when we are all gone, it's the opinions of those left to listen and perform that will matter. Whatever legagcy we may leave them, they will squandor or invest it as they wish. Those of us who, like me, were brought up in the shadow of WW2, are comfortable with a more austere approach to many aspects of life that would be unacceptable to our children and grandchildren. It will be the same with their music - some may take the time to appreciate the Proustian length and complexity of a long ballad but, I suapect, far more will go for a more immediate and accessible approach. Wouldn't it be great to be able to come back in 50 years or so and see what they have made of it?

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 01:45 PM

I suspect that the future of folk music will be much like it's past....long periods of being of interest to s small dedicated group of enthusiasts with an occasional splash into mass media pop culture, followed by a fairly rapid fade.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 02:26 PM

Another singer of folk songs and ballads and I were sitting in a coffee shop/European-style pastry parlor one evening, swilling coffee and talking guitars. Both of us played classics and both of us had recently acquired very nice Spanish-made guitars. After extolling the virtues of our respective instruments, we launched into a discussion of various guitar techniques, both folk and classical, with a few forays into flamenco.

During the day, the proprietor of the pastry parlor ran a music store specializing in folk music records, song books, and instruments. As he waited tables, he kept an ear tuned to our conversation. Finally he said, "Do you fellows consider yourselves primarily singers? Or primarily guitarists?"

That brought us both up short. Both of us had initially picked up the guitar because we had become entranced with folk music, and both of us were actively performing—singing—at one place or another. For pay.

In my case, primarily a singer.

But we both realized that, other than learning new songs as fast as we could, the main thing we were concentrating on was working out accompaniments to those songs. That was a most mind-focusing question.

Milo sang mainly because he was in a group, but he wasn't that much into singing. He wanted to focus on learning flamenco. I, on the other hand, after being asked that question, began paying a lot more attention to the songs themselves and how I sang them. Along with making sure that I wasn't thoughtlessly working out razzle-dazzle "accompaniments" that overshadowed the songs.

I've told this before in other threads on this forum, but I think it bears repeating. One summer I worked for a picture framer. I was mainly a grunt, sanding frames and washing glass. This particular framer was especially liked by local artists and galleries, mainly because his frames had the characteristics of being "just right" for that particular painting;   setting off the painting in space and, in general, showcasing the painting, rather than drawing attention to itself, like some of the more ornate frames one often sees.

He said, "A good picture frame should borrow elements from the painting itself. Look for shapes within the painting and pick a molding shape that reflects this. Then examine the colors in the painting and make the color of the frame a neutral combination. The frame should set the painting off in space, and should never call attention to itself. If people look at a painting, then walk away saying 'that's a really nice frame,' then the frame is a failure. They should hardly notice it at all."

The painting determines the elements of the frame and the song determines the elements that make up the accompaniment. A brief restatement of a melodic phrase between verses perhaps, maybe carefully select your bass notes to provide a bit of counterpoint to your voice, and the rhythm of the song dictates the rhythm of the accompaniment, not the other way around.

Working that summer in the picture framing shop taught me a lot about accompanying folk songs and ballads. Or any kind of songs.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 03:08 PM

"How about a Strat or Les Paul as folk instruments..."

Of course, why not? Just this second finished listening to Dick Gaughan's 'Both Sides of the Tweed' whuilst cooking a curry. Dick plays a mean Telecaster.

Last year I heard Gordon Tyrell doing a superb electric set with a Strat and some pre-recorded looped stuff. One of the songs was Reynardine which was so atmospheric it had my hair standing on end - pretty amazing as I don't have hair. I was talking to him afterwards and we agreed that there are many traditional songs ( acknowledging Mr Lloyds involvement in that one) that are just so strong they will work with many different interpretations. Must go - the curry's burning.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 04:03 PM

"Thoughts?"
Well, apart from the fact that none on your list (as far as I can remember from the dim and distant past) bear any resemblence to any folk singer I've ever heard.
The second is in direct response to the orinal question - in the interest of keeping folk music alive (and attracting new blood) what on earth advantage can there be at pointing to a bunch of blasts from the past who would be as alien to them as James Hogg's mother?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: deepdoc1
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 05:46 PM

I fear I lack the wit to convey my meaning. None of the aforementioned are folk singers, with the possible exception of Roger McGuinn these days, but all were influenced by folk music and perhaps in turn influenced others to seek out the origins of some tune or lyric which caught their fancy. I expect that's where I got the idea (doubtfully original) that folk music can be successfully purveyed unto future generations in many ways, of which this is one. I think it definitely qualifies as a method of 'attracting new blood' in the sense of the OP. I don't suggest this is in any way a primary propagator, but should be in the mix somewhere. Many other ideas are suggested in above threads.

In some ways, many folk tunes could be blasts from the past, just not electric. Would James Hogg's mother be Robert Hogg's wife? Google is such fun ;)

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 03:46 AM

Sorry - still don't follow how the recruiting of aged pop stars can possibly influence the fortunes of the music one way or the other.
The strength of the revival has always lain in its democratic nature - it is 'our' music, as opposed to the pap fed to us by the machine (fine examples of which you provided). Can't see how taking on board the machine's cast-offs because of who they once were can possibly help. The songs and tunes, as old as the were, were never 'blasts from the past' (a phrase invented by the pap industry when it ran out of fresh ideas and material), rather, when they were performed well they were as fresh as the day they emerged from the heads of their makers, whoever they may have been.
Just as you appear not know who James Hogg's mother was (an elderly 18th century singer who once said something very wise), I find myself in the same position with Robert Hogg - manager of 'Millstream Recycling' maybe (yes - googling is fun).
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 04:43 AM

Jim, I don't see it as a case of recruiting aged pop stars now, it's more a case of what they were doing in their heyday. Thin Lizzy's hit with Whiskey in the Jar in the 70's may have would have undoubtedly introduced many pop/rock listeners to a traditional song and may have sparked an interest to dig deeper. Similarly with the other examples quoted. This is likely to keep happening in the future with current pop bands/artists.

I agree with Deepdoc that it's in the past it's probably not been the main way of attracting folk to folk, and it probably won't be in the future, but it does have an effect nonetheless.

I can't say it's worked too well for me with English folk, but it's certainly been the case with blues - i.e. tracing the line back from Clapton through Robert Johnson through to his influences and beyond.

Pete.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 06:04 AM

Why does this thread seem to be morphing from "What is the future of folk music?" into "How do we attract people to folk music?" I distrust 'evangelists' of all types. I also despise fashion and 'fashionistas'. If folk music has the qualities which many of us believe it to have then discerning people will find it for themselves.
If we feel the we have to sell it in order to make it fashionable, then it will merely turn into yet another form of commercial pop pap. Once that happens it really will be in danger of dying out as soon as it becomes unfashionable and its place is taken by some other musical fad.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 06:45 AM

"Whiskey in the Jar in the 70's would have undoubtedly introduced many pop/rock listeners to a traditional song"
Did it, certainly not in the long term (see my posting above); and why should it? Nor, IMO, has any of the other 'users and abusers' who have turned to folk music when their imaginations ran dry.
he only interest Rod Stewart's Wild Mountain Thyme generated was a scramble to copyright the song.
There is no evidence whatever to suggest that the pop treatment of any folk song has attracted anybody to the music any more than Delius's and Vaughan Wiliams's.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 07:10 AM

Jim, if it hadn't been for the Pogues I never would have discovered folk music.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 07:14 AM

Sorry; my posting on the subject was on the 'Ballads' thread; (reproduced below) referring to Jim Moray's assault with intent to cause grievous bodily harm on the ballad Lucy Wan.
Jim Carroll

"The problem for me with this age-old argument is that I am always left with the opinion that it only generates an enthusiasm for that particular approach, and when other methods are presented it leaves a potential audience cold.
I first came into contact with 'live folk' in Liverpool with the Spinners. After I had been attending their club for a year I was on the point of pulling out altogether (there are only so many renditions of 'Fried Bread and Brandy O' you can take) when somebody said "have you heard MacColl's Folkways set of 'English and Scottish Ballads'?
While it's true that I wouldn't have been there in the first place if it hadn't been for the four lads (and Jaquie McDonald in those days), 'gawd bless 'em', their particular approach wasn't enough to hold me and I had to start virtually from scratch.
This argument was used when Shirly Ellis's 'Rubber Dolly' hit the top of the charts - "folk music had arrived' - but it hadn't, of course.
Some years ago the organisers of the Clare Traditional Singing Weekend (exclusively unnaccompanied) was offered the services of Christie Moore, a perfectly valid reason for having him was that they themed the week-end as 'Political Songs'. When the news got out, hordes of youngsters decended on Ennistymon and it was believed that this would be the big breakthrough - it wasn't. Even though we were treated to a festival of superb singing from all the performers - the youngsters never came back. Christie has a large following for his own style, which isn't traditional - and there's the rub.
If an audience is to be won for traditional singing, it has to be for its own merits and not for something else, and thereby hangs our problem."

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 07:39 AM

Jim, with all due respect, the thread is about the future of folk music, not just the future of traditional singing. It would be good if we could discuss the broader context.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 07:44 AM

People not raised in the tradition need gateways. A band that mixed music I understood (punk) with traditional acoustic instruments and even occasionally songs and tunes, was like they key to the first door for me. For more than 20 years I have been moving through. Successive doors, and there is certainly music I love now, such ad the recordings of John Reilly, that would have seemed tedious and incomprehensible to my 20 year old self. They would have remained so, I suspect, if I had not been led to folk by certain "pop" bands. I can't believe I'm unique in this.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 07:57 AM

"I can't believe I'm unique in this."

You're not..... Pogues, Men They Couldn't Hang even New Model Army (they had a fiddle!) kept me interested through my 20's.

But then most people do seem to have ended up with a slightly more eclectic view of folk than Jim! Each to their own though.

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 08:02 AM

And we wouldn't be without him. :)

Subject: RE: What is the future of folk music?
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 01:28 PM

Flanagans Apple, Rosie O Gradys, Kitty O Sheas, The Liffy, O Neills and many more Liverpool theme pubs were booking live bands 7(drunken) nights a week, with 2 to 3 bands in each venue at weekends, for well over ten years. Playing Dubliners,Clancys,Saw Doctors, Waterboys,Pogues,to packed houses, most of it gone now " flavour of the decade?" The Everyman Folk Club is the only one in Liverpool city centre average attendance about thirty, doesn't seem to have had much impact

Btw Banjiman "most people" would that be the same half dozen who criticise most of Jim Carrolls posts?