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The Advent and Development of Chanties

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John Minear 22 Apr 10 - 07:34 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 07:18 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 05:38 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 05:09 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 05:01 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Apr 10 - 04:31 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 03:06 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Apr 10 - 01:45 PM
John Minear 22 Apr 10 - 01:11 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 12:49 PM
Lighter 22 Apr 10 - 10:32 AM
John Minear 22 Apr 10 - 09:00 AM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 12:43 AM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 12:15 AM
Gibb Sahib 20 Apr 10 - 10:05 PM
Lighter 20 Apr 10 - 07:52 PM
Gibb Sahib 20 Apr 10 - 07:43 PM
Gibb Sahib 20 Apr 10 - 07:05 PM
Gibb Sahib 20 Apr 10 - 01:30 PM
Gibb Sahib 20 Apr 10 - 01:12 PM
Steve Gardham 19 Apr 10 - 06:31 PM
Gibb Sahib 19 Apr 10 - 05:46 PM
Steve Gardham 19 Apr 10 - 04:36 PM
Steve Gardham 19 Apr 10 - 04:17 PM
Steve Gardham 19 Apr 10 - 04:03 PM
Gibb Sahib 19 Apr 10 - 03:33 PM
Gibb Sahib 18 Apr 10 - 11:18 PM
Gibb Sahib 18 Apr 10 - 10:48 PM
Gibb Sahib 18 Apr 10 - 10:35 PM
Gibb Sahib 18 Apr 10 - 09:43 PM
Gibb Sahib 18 Apr 10 - 09:05 PM
Gibb Sahib 18 Apr 10 - 08:31 PM
Gibb Sahib 18 Apr 10 - 08:03 PM
shipcmo 18 Apr 10 - 04:41 PM
John Minear 18 Apr 10 - 04:19 PM
Gibb Sahib 18 Apr 10 - 02:34 PM
John Minear 18 Apr 10 - 09:01 AM
Gibb Sahib 18 Apr 10 - 12:12 AM
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John Minear 17 Apr 10 - 05:42 PM
Gibb Sahib 17 Apr 10 - 04:44 PM
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Steve Gardham 17 Apr 10 - 02:51 PM
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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:34 PM

Gibb, here is what we have found *so far* over on the "San Franciso to Sydney" thread. First of all there are songs that were given with lyrics and occasionally a tune, or with clear enough titles that we can identify them with known chanties today:

"Across the Briny (Western) Ocean"
"Aha, We're Bound Away, On The Wild Missouri"
"A Hundred Years Ago"
"All On The Plains Of Mexico"
"Bottle O"
"Bully in the Alley"
"Cheerily Men"
"Drunken Sailor"
"Fire Down Below"
"A Grog Time Of Day"
"Haul The Bowline"
"Hieland Laddie"
"Mary Ann"
"Mobile Bay" / "Johnny, Come Tell Us As We Haul Away"
"Nancy Fanana"
"One More Day For Johnny"
"Outward And Homeward Bound"
"Paddy Works On The Railway"
"Pay me the money down"
"Round The Corner, Sally"
"Row, Bullies, Row"
"Sally Brown"
"Stormalong"
"Whiskey Johnny"

Here is an additional list of songs identified as sung on board ship. Some even have lyrics. None had tunes, and to my knowledge have not been *clearly* identified with chanties known today:

"Captain gone ashore"
"Dandy ship and a dandy crew"
"Fire Maringo"
"Haul way, yeo ho, boys!"
"Heave round hearty!"
"Heave, to the the girls!"
"Heigho, heave and go"
"Highland day and off she goes"
"Ho, O, heave O"/ "Row, Billy, row"
"Hurrah! Hurrah! my hearty bullies"
"O, Hurrah, My Hearties, O"
"Jack Crosstree"
"Nancy oh!"
"Pull away now, my Nancy O!"
"Roll and go for that white pitcher, roll and go"
"Tally hi o you know"
"Time for us to go"
"Yankee Dollar"

And in comparison with your list I see I missed a few:

"Miranda Lee"
"To the Greenland sea/ Black although she be"
"When first we went a-waggoning" (this can be identified with other         known versions.)

Your listing is a more precise than mine, for example, noting the different versions of "Stormalong". And in some cases our titles may be different. My "Yankee Dollar" is your "MONEY DOWN". Basically, we agree!


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:18 PM

In the novel BLAKE; OR THE HUTS OF AMERICA, the first, relevant parts of which appeared in a periodical in 1859, M.R. Delany includes the following in reference to a riverboat on the Upper Mississippi:

...the boated glided steadily up the stream, seemingly in unison with the lively though rude and sorrowful song of the black firemen:

I'm a-goin' to Texas--O! O-O-O!
I'm a-goin' to Texas--O! O-O-O!


Looks like it could be a variation of the SAILOR FIREMAN.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:38 PM

Here is a sort of distilled "set list" for shanty repertoire known to have been sung *aboard sailing vessels* (also inclusive of the sailor songs that turn up on Pacific islands) up through 1859-ish. It is taking the focus away from the broad world of work-songs, for a moment, and only looking at the songs that made it aboard ships.

c.1800s-1820s

CHEERLY
"Oh Sally Brown, Sally Brown, oh!"
FIRE FIRE

1830s
"Pull away now, my Nancy, O!"
"To the Greenland sea/ Black although she be"
"Heave, to the girls!"
"Nancy oh!"
"Jack Cross-tree,"
"Heave round hearty!"
"Captain gone ashore!"
"Time for us to go!"
ROUND THE CORNER
"Hurrah! hurrah! my hearty bullies!"
CHEERLY
HIGHLAND LADDIE
SALLY BROWN
BOTTLE O
TALLY

1840s

GROG TIME
DRUNKEN SAILOR
"Heave her away"
"O! hurrah my hearties O!"
CHEERLY
"O ee roll & go"
"Heave him up! O he yo!"
ROUND THE CORNER
"Ho, O, heave O"
TALLY
ACROSS THE WESTERN OCEAN
HUNDRED YEARS
STORMY

1850s

"Oh fare you well, my own Mary Anne"
"When first we went a-waggoning"
CHEERLY
STORMY
BOWLINE
SANTIANA
BULLEY IN ALLEY
"Miranda Lee"
STORMALONG JOHN
MR. STORMALONG
SHENANDOAH
PADDY ON THE RAILWAY
WHISKEY JOHNNY
"Whisky for Johnny!"
MONEY DOWN
ACROSS THE WESTERN OCEAN
"Highland day and off she goes"
OUTWARD AND HOMEWARD BOUND

John, I'd be interested to hear how this squares with what you have come up with so far in terms of chanties that could have been sung aboard the JULIA ANN, 1853-55.


In the whole timeline, CHEERLY comes up 8 times, all in shipboard contexts. STORMY --in some form (I still need to sort out the tags, to distinguish different versions)-- turns up 7 times in that context. These are the two most common shanties.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:09 PM

Steve,

Sorry I was unclear about "linguistic." I was not thinking about pronunciation or ease of speech or anything like that. I was thinking of the meaning of the words. That "corn" is meaningful in in the corn-shucking context is obvious. But what would "corner" mean to sailors, if not as part of the phrase meaning "streetwalkers"? Well, "corn" would mean even less to sailors, which is why I thought they might re-interpret "corn" as "corner." That particular issue is not one of hearing/pronunciation as it is one of assigning a meaning that fits.

Thanks for mentioning Emmet's minstrel song of 1843. I missed it, because I don't have it in my timeline. I have been trying to resist exploring the trajectories of individual songs, because I think that is being done quite nicely in the "warp" of John M's thread. In focusing on the "weft" here --the nitty-gritty of how chanteying in general is described-- some of non-work-song references fall through the cracks!


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:01 PM

Some notes on the 1850s

I count about 13 *possibly* new chanties to appear in the 1850s. When I say "new," I mean new to the timeline of references; it is of course in possible to know if these songs were truly new to the world then. The more common hold-overs from the past decades are STORMALONG (in some form) and CHEERLY.

There are several references to shantying while pumping ship in the 1850s. This task was not mentioned in earlier decades.

Before the 1850s, I see only 3 direct references to using shanties for halyards. These shanties are CHEERLY, GROG TIME, and DRUNKEN SAILOR. In the 1850s, however, there is

CHEERLY x2
STORMY
WHISKEY JOHNNY
"Highland Day"


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:31 PM

I am just about in complete agreement with your summary, Gibb, with a reservation on the linguistic side. Corn and corner are far too close to determine which one would lead to the other. One has only to emphasize the 'n' on corn a little too much, as can happen when singing, and you have corner. Alternatively word endings can drop very easily in slang lingo (Mas' Jones = Master Jones). The only thing I can add is, to me 'round the corner Sally' rolls off the tongue marginally better, but that doesn't help at all in determining which might have come first. A lingiuistics expert would have plenty to say on this. The strong 'S' on Sally diminishes the 'er' sound on corner to the extent that there is very little difference between the two phrases. Try it. However, if you miss off the Sally, the 'er' becomes much more emphasised. Well, in my Yorkshire accent it does.

Looking back through the thread we have 'Round the corner Sally' appearing in a minstrel song in 1843. The most likely source of minstrel song material is African American. If we assume 'corner' was being used by the slaves then this means they were using both 'corn' and 'corner' and the change happened there, or at least that both were in use on the American mainland before transferring to shipboard use. Or not!


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 03:06 PM

Here's my meagre attempt to sort out the chicken-or-egg of "Round the corn(er)," with the the evidence available to me *at present*.

I think it is unlikely that the two phrases (corn/corner) coincidentally developed independently. So, one comes from the other. Having assumed that...

If we were to have evidence of the phrase "round the corner Sally" being in use in other contexts (e.g. in England, outside of maritime context) --especially if *earlier* than any of these working contexts-- then that would strengthen the originality of "Round the Corner, Sally" (shipboard song).

As far as the working songs go in the emerging "timeline," the first instance of one or the other phrase is:

1832, Maryland -- Hungerford's documented corn-shucking song Round the CORN

Next, just a few years after, comes,

1834-1836, on the brig _Pilgrim_, "Round the CORNER, Sally"

Then in 1839, "Round the CORNER" turns up in Tahiti as a song learned from sailors. CORNER turns up again in the Society Islands in 1844.

It persisted as a corn-shucking song, as evidenced by mention in 1848, and inclusion of a unique (i.e. not derivative of earlier texts) version in Allen's SLAVE SONGS.

It seems certain that, unless "Round the Corner" had become a popular song --that is, one that was widely spread and known amongst "all" people --that it's flow was the result of movement of African-Americans. I say this because, for example, I have difficulty imagining that non-Black sailors would have brought the song to plantations.

There may well have been some intermediary context, like rowing or stevedoring, which link the plantations to the sea. But in any case, I have difficulty imagining that Blacks were not the agents for the transfer. (Someone please critique my logic.) So, one might propose that Blacks either brought it to the ships when they came as sailors, or, having served as sailors, brought it to the plantations. To me, the former sounds more likely, i.e. slave song > shipboard song.

However, in terms of language, it seems to me slightly more likely that CORNER > CORN once the corn-shucking context was introduced. On the other hand, what did "corner" mean at all to sailors if it was *not* "flash girls down the alley"? (I don't buy the "Cape Horn" idea, at least not for this time period.)

I have not really clarified anything, but I will try to state my "bottom line":

If the phrase, "Round the Corner Sallies" was well established in Anglo discourse early on, then I'd learn towards CORNER coming first. Otherwise, I lean towards the CORN song coming first. In the latter case, the language scenario would be the reverse of Van De Merwe's idea: confronted with "corn," which no longer made any sense when brought to a maritime context, sailors changed it to "corner."

All that being said...if the slave song did get adopted as a sailor song, that happened at quite an early date -- before the time of cultural exchange (e.g. the cotton-stowing) that gives us a burst of new shanty repertoire. From Hungerford's 1832 Maryland to Dana's mid 1830s Cape Horn trip, that is a big leap in few years. The exchange probably would have happened quite a bit earlier. Was this one of the really early exchanges --compare GROG TIME-- during a period when African-Americans were well represented as sailing ship crew? I am too uncomfortable, with the lack of evidence, to say more.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:45 PM

Being more acqainted with chanties than slave songs I had not come across the 'Round the CORN songs' before. Whereas I do think that borrowing from one genre to another is often a two-way affair, in this case I think that 'round the corner' is more likely to derive from 'round the corn' than the reverse case.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:11 PM

Gibb, I appreciate your close and careful reading of the sources!


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:49 PM

OK! I've put those Round the Corn refs in my timeline, thanks.

The one published in 1894 is not authentic. It uses the same lyrics (polished up) as in Hungerford's 1832 account....lyrics which were composed specifically to address Hungerford's fellows at that time!


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:32 AM

See here (pp. 206-07) for a brief (and of course inconclusive) musicological discussion of "Round the Corn, Sally":

http://books.google.com/books?id=E2OQlWHzjvEC&pg=PA206&dq=%22Roun'+de+corn,+sally%22&lr=&cd=5#v=onepage&q=%22Roun'%20de%20corn%2C%20sally%22&f=false

I don't share the author's certainty that the shanty (with "corner" rather than "corn")"surely" came first.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 09:00 AM

Here are three more references to "Round the Corn, Sally" as a corn-shucking song. The first is from 1848:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PCpKAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA287&dq=%22Round+the+corn,+sally%22&lr=&cd=23#v=onepage&q=%22Round%20the%20cor

I'm not sure on the dating of this one, which was published in 1894, but surely it is earlier than that:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2ncAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA260&dq=Round+the+corn,+sally&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Round%20the%20corn%2C%20sally&f

And, from SLAVE SONGS OF THE UNITED STATES, by Allen, Ware and Garrison, published in 1867, a tune:

http://books.google.com/books?id=6frfZd0-1xkC&pg=PA68&dq=Round+the+corn,+sally&cd=4#v=onepage&q=Round%20the%20corn%2C%20sally&f=


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:43 AM

The second passage in Hungerford 1859 contains the famous "Round the Corn, Sally."


" Charley looks as if he would sing us another song," said Miss Bettie. " What is that lively little song, Charley, which I heard you and some of the hands sing the other day, when you were hanging tobacco at the barn ? I am sure that you can row to that."
" Sure unnuff, young misstis," answered Charley; " I had forgot dat. But dat's a corn song; un we'll hab ter sing it slow ter row to."
" Try it, at any rate," said the major.
" Sartinly, sah, ef de marsters un mistisses wants it."
Charley was evidently somewhat vexed at the disparaging
remarks made by the petitioners on his previous performance.
Nevertheless, there came a quiet smile to his face as he began
the following song:

ROUN' DE CORN, SALLY.

1. Hooray, hooray, ho!
Roun' de corn, Sally !
Hooray for all de lub- ly la-dies!
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly I
Hooray, hoo - ray, ho !
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly!
Hoo-ray for all de lub - ly la - dies!
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly!

Dis lub's er thing dat 's sure to hab you,
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly!
He hole you tight, when once he grab you,
Roun' de corn, Sal -ly!
Un ole un ug - ly, young un prit- ty,
Roun' do corn, Sal - ly!
You need- en try when once he git you,
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly !

2. Dere's Mr. Travers lub Miss Jinny;
He thinks she is us good us any.
He comes from church wid her er Sunday,
Un don't go back ter town till Monday.
                         Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

3. Dere's Mr. Lucas lub Miss Treser,
Un ebery thing he does ter please her;
Dey say dat 'way out in Ohio,
She's got er plenty uv de rhino.
                         Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

4. Dere's Marster Charley lub Miss Bettie;
   I tell you what—he thinks her pretty;
   Un den dey mean ter lib so lordly,
   All at de Monner House at Audley.
                      Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

5. Dere's Marster Wat, he lub Miss Susan;
He thinks she is de pick un choosin';
Un when dey gains de married station,
   He'll take her to de ole plantation.
                      Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

6. Dere's Marster Clarence lub Miss Lizzy;
   Dressing nice, it keeps him busy;
Un where she goes den he gallants her,
Er riding on his sorrel prancer.
                      Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

This song caused much amusement at the expense of each one of us who in turn became the subject of satire. The hit at Lizzie and me was the hardest, as we were both present, and was, therefore, I suppose, introduced at the end. Several laughing efforts were made by the ladies to interrupt the singing, when the words began to have reference to those who were present; but the old major insisted on " having it out," as he expressed himself. The decided " effect" produced by his song completely re-established Charley's good-humor. The old major, being the only white person present who was spared, of course enjoyed the occasion immensely; his laughter rang loud and far through the clear air, and was echoed back from the banks of the creek.
"Those are not the words, Charley," said Miss Bettie, " that you sung to that tune the other day."
" No, miss," was the answer. " Marse Weatherby's little Sam was ober at Sin Joseph's tud-day, un larnt um ter me. He said Clotildy made um un larnt um ter him dis morning.''
"But why did she make that verse," I asked, "about my 'gallanting' Miss Lizzie, as she calls it? I never rode out with Miss Lizzie till this morning."
" Sam said," answered Charley, " dat he asked Clotildy ubbout dat, un she said you was er gwine ter do it."
" I say, young Audley," said the major, " you forget that the poet has a right to foreshadow coming events. I have a dim recollection of having read, somewhere that there was a time at least
             " 'When the name Of poet and of prophet was the same.' "


Topical, ha ha! A good illustration of the qualities described by other authors. The tune is also given here, in 4/4, major scale. The harmonic structure is such that a IV chord comes at or just before the cadence, given a "modal" quality. Although it's not *exactly* what's written here (no one expects it to be), one can get a vert good sense of this melody from this rendition by The Johnson Girls. Note that while they sing the whole "hooray" part as a chorus, in Hungerford's text, that part is structured as a call and response. And of course, the harmonizing is their addition.

We also learn from this that "corn songs" were faster than those for rowing.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:15 AM

I had forgotten this source. It is James Hungerford's THE OLD PLANTATION (1859), which includes observations of slave songs the author heard whilst visiting a relative's plantation in southern Maryland in 1832.

First passage. The people are on a boat on a creek.

"This is getting dull," said the major, after the silence had lasted some minutes ; " Come, Charley, give us a song to enliven us a little."

In obedience to this order, Charley struck up a song; the other oarsmen answered in chorus, all timing the strokes of their oars to the measure. The song was not by any means enlivening, however, either in words or tune—as the reader will perceive. I have entitled it

SOLD OFF TO GEORGY [Chorus parts are in parentheses]

1. Farewell fellow servants, (O-ho! O-ho!)
I'm gwine way to leabe you (O-ho! O-ho!)
I'm gwine to leave de ole county (O-ho! O-ho!)
I'm sold off to Georgy! (O-ho! O-ho!)

2. Farewell, ole plantation, (Oho! Oho!)
   Farewell, de ole quarter, (Oho ! Oho!)
Un daddy, un mammy, (Oho! Oho !)
Un marster, un missus ! (Oho ! Oho!)

8. My dear wife un one chile, (Oho! Oho!)
My poor heart is breaking; (Oho ! Oho!)
No more shall I see you, (Oho ! Oho !)
Oh ! no more foreber! (Oho! Oho!)

The reader will observe that the lines of the song do not rhyme ; and it may be remarked that the negro songs—that is, such as they can compose themselves—are mostly without rhymes. When they do attempt to rhyme they frequently take more than the poetic license, being satisfied—when they can not do better—if the vowel-sounds at the ends of the lines agree.

The tone of voice in which this boat-song was sung was inexpressibly plaintive, and, bearing such a melancholy tune, and such affecting words, produced a very pathetic effect. I saw tears in the eyes of the young ladies, and could scarcely restrain my own. We heard but the three verses given (such songs are sometimes stretched out to many verses) ; for at the end of the third verse the major interrupted the song.

" Confound such lively music," he exclaimed; "it is making the girls cry, I do believe. And with such slow measure to sing to, we shall scarcely get into Weatherby's Creek tonight."
" De boat-songs is always dat way, marster," said Charley —" dat is mo' er less."
"Well, try to find something better than that," said the major; " I am sure that it is impossible for any thing to be more low-spirited in words, or tune, or manner of singing."
" Yas, marster," was Charley's answer. And the negroes sang another boat-song, but not so very sad as their first.
"Charley is right," said Miss Bettie, with a laugh; "the boat-songs are ' all that way, more or less.' I think that we had better have silence than such low-spirited music. Do you not think so, uncle?"
" Entirely," said the major. " The pathetic is well enough when there is need of stirring up our feelings of humanity, but I can see no use in creating mere low spirits."
" I like the music," said Lizzie ; " it is sometimes pleasant —if I may speak such a seeming paradox—to be made sad without any personal cause for being so. Such a state of feeling may be called ' the luxury of woe.' "
Miss Susan and I agreed with her. The negroes seemed pleased at our approval.


It looks like the 'marsters' got more than they bargained for when they requested a song!

It is printed with tune. It's in 6/8, in what you could call the major pentatonic scale (CDEGA). This gives some insight on what was being called "plaintive"! This shows that plaintive wasn't necessarily minor -- though the drop down to the sixth scale degree, presumably not characteristic of English music, lends a minor-ish touch. Blue notes may have been happening, or it may have just been something else in the "tone of voice." At least this resolves (for me) some of the disjuncture between the idea of "plaintive" and chanty melodies of today. That is, this melody is not unlike chanty melodies of today, so if this was what was being called "plaintive," then other references to "plaintive" could be to the same sort of idea.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 10:05 PM

For the last (at present) reference that might be attributed to the 1850s, I want to copy (with minor additions) John Minear's post from elsewhere on Mudcat.

////snip
Posted By: John Minear
31-Mar-10 - 07:45 AM
Thread Name: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?

Here is a reference to the hauling/halyard chanty "Whiskey for Johnny!" being used to "pull round the yards" on board of the packet ship "Mary Bradford" on a cruise from London to New York, from the book THE REAL EXPERIENCES OF AN EMIGRANT [(Ward, Lock and Tyler)]:

       "The passengers assisted the sailors to pull round the yards - a work of great difficulty. It was done by a series of pulls - thus: one man took hold of the rope and stood on the spar of the bulwark, singing a few words of a song - I could not make them out - the others called out, "Whisky for Johnny!" and gave a simultaneous haul, when the yard came round an inch or two, and so they continued until the sail was sheeted home." (p. 39)

The frustrating thing about this reference is that there is no publication date that I can find for the book other than "187?". And like a lot of these accounts, the writer chooses to *not* give a date for his experience! I have yet to understand this, unless it is a way of covering up a fiction. It makes me suspicious right off. He says, "On Saturday, the --day of June, 18--, I embarked on board the "Mary Bradford," then lying in the basin of the London Docks, and bound for New York." (p. 5)

There certainly was a "Mary Bradford", and she was one of the "Swallow-Tail Line of Packet Ship", sailing every alternate Thursday from New York and London. Here is an advertisement from 1859:...

She was launched in October of 1854 at Warren, Rhode Island, and immediately sailed for Mobile....

And on July 5, 1855, she was struck by lightning at Battery Wharf in Boston!...

While it is a somewhat shaky guess, I would say that this reference to "Whiskey for Johnny!" *could* be located in the later 1850s. It seems to place it in the packet trade. However, this chanty has quite a reputation for being used on board the packet ships. It is strange that this is the only reference I have been able to find that really confirms that, so far. All of the other solid references to "Whiskey Johnny" are later.
////snip

As far as dating the event goes, that makes a lot of sense to me. Additionally, the narrator mentions meeting a survivor of the U.S. steamship CENTRAL AMERICA, which used to transport gold-seekers between NY and Panama, and which sank off North Carolina in Sept. 1857. Abolitionists are mentioned, but the Civil War is conspicuously absent. So between 1858-1860 sounds about right. OK?

My suspicion is that this is not the halyard chantey "Whiskey for Johnny." Because if they were pulling the yards around (tacking), they'd be hauling on braces, right? (Someone please adjust my shaky sailing knowledge.) It sounds like a sheet shnty or a "sing-out," where perhaps there was just a hard pull on "Johnny!" Thoughts?


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:52 PM

Maybe someone else can identify the three other tunes printed by Peck.

I believe that No. 3 is the tune used by one or more of Carpenter's singers for "Victorio" or "Very Well Done, Jim Crow!"

The final bars of No. 1 seem to make up a chorus that scans like that of "Stormy Old Weather, Windy Old Weather."

No. 2 reminds me a little of the Scots song "Drumdelgie" and the Irish tune "O'Keefe's Slide."

I wouldn't discount their possible use in shanties.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:43 PM

In SEA DRIFT, Hercules Robinson (1858) recalls his days in the British Navy and serving during the Battle of Trafalgar, 1805. I don't find where it says when he first went to see. However, it is that time (i.e. 1805 or earlier) that he refers to when giving his "Sally Brown" song.

When I went to sea first, the bellowing of officers in carrying on duty was awful, and a strong voice was a gift greatly prized. Every officer giving orders used a speaking trumpet, and the men were not half restrained in the article of noise. They were not allowed to do their work with such a song as Dickens commemorates—
" Oh Sally Brown, Sally Brown, oh !
She won't have a Yankee sailor, oh!
Cos she loves the nigger tailor, oh!!"—[Da Capo.]

But short of this refrain there was a great latitude as to exclamation and noise. My Captain, the first, Sir Henry Blackwood, had a wonderful organ, and might be heard a mile off.


Well, so they were not allowed to sing in the British Navy. It is not clear whether this song was of that time period (i.e. on non-Navy ships) or if it came in later -- in time for Dickens to commemorate it. Was it this song that Dickens commemorated, or another, perhaps as in HOUSEHOLD WORDS, 1855-56, which has an out-of-context reference to "Drunken Sailor"?

In any case, though this has the name "Sally Brown," and its lyrical theme, its form is not of the stanzaic sort, with "roll and go" chorus, that we know of later. It looks more like a "Cheerly Man" form, which would be consistent with the earlier time period and Navy context, if so. It's not Maryat's "Sally Brown" of 1837, but it does appear like the iffy "common sailor's chant" sung on stage by Wallack in the 1820s. I'm going to file it as "circa 1805-1820s."


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:05 PM

John M. writes:

////
And then a reference from Solomon Northup's TWELVE YEARS A SLAVE, 1855, perhaps talking about events in 1853 or earlier. He mentions some fiddle tunes and "patting juba" songs, among which are "Old Hog Eye!" and "Jim Along, Josie."
////

Here is the passage.

One " set" off, another takes its place, he or she remaining longest on the floor receiving the most up roarious commendation, and so the dancing continues until broad daylight. It does not cease with the sound of the fiddle, but in that case they set up a music peculiar to themselves. This is called " patting," accompanied with one of those unmeaning songs, composed rather for its adaptation to a certain tune or measure, than for the purpose of expressing any distinct idea. The patting is performed by striking the hands on the knees, then striking the hands together, then striking the right shoulder with ona hand, the left with the other—all the while keeping timo with the feet, and singing, perhaps, this song.

" Harper's creek and roarin' ribber,
Thar, my clear, we'll live forebber;
Den we'll go to de Ingin nation,
All I want in dis creation,
Is pretty little wife and big plantation.

Chorus. Up dat oak and down dat ribber,
Two overseers and one little nigger"

Or, if these words are not adapted to the tune called for, it may be that " Old Hog Eye" is—a rather solemn and startling specimen of versification, not, however, to be appreciated unless heard at the South. It runneth as follows:

"Who's been here since I've been gone?
Pretty little gal wid a josey on.

Hog Eye!
Old Hog Eye,
And Hosey too!

Never see de like since I was bom,
Here come a little gal wid a josey on.

Hog Eye!
Old Hog Eye!
And Hosey too!"

Or, may be the following, perhaps, equally nonsenaical, but full of melody, nevertheless, as it flows from the negro's mouth :

"Ebo Dick and Jurdan's Jo,
Them two niggers stole my yo'

Chorus. Hop Jim along,
       Walk Jim along,
         Talk Jim along. &c.

Old black Dan, as black as tar,
He dam glad he was not dar.
    Hop Jim along," &c


It's not *quite* "Jim along Josey" as we know it. One could say that, whether the minstrel song was based in a slave song or whether it was original in 1840, it did also have a life by this time as a folk song among Blacks. I would reason that, since the form of this does not match that of the minstrel version, that a folk version existed before and alongside the minstrel version. That is somewhat dodgy reasoning, however.

Was a version "Hog Eye" also a minstrel song? The "typical" lyrics appear in minstrelsy, I know, being floating verses. But the chorus?


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 01:30 PM

MELBOURNE, AND THE CHINCHA ISLANDS, by George Washington Peck, 1854, has the following. It pertains to a trip in the ship PLYMOUTH ROCK from Boston to Melbourne (via Cape Horn) in early 1854. The passenger-narrator writes:

We experienced some very heavy weather in the South Pacific, and as the voyage lengthened, the tempers of many of our gold-hunters, most of whom had come from shops and farms, and had few resources for amusement, began to be sorely tried. To contribute my part to preserve them in order, I used to make catches out of sea-songs, and we got up a little glee club, whose performances were much admired. Almost every New Englander who has aught of a taste for music, has been to a " Singing School," and can read psalmody. But we had no psalm tunes for men's voices. To remedy this deficiency, I composed some for every Sunday, the last few weeks, which we sung to hymns appropriate to our situation. Annexed are some specimens of sea-songs, which may amuse our musical readers; the list might be extended indefinitely. What the first was manufactured out of, it is not easy to imagine. The second is a scrap of something familiar. Perhaps the third may be some Dutch melody. The last is the universal favorite. It goes to the words " Haul the bowline, the Black Star bowline, haul the bowline, the bowline HAUL!" The last word is only the cry in which all join, at the pull; the rest is sung by one alone.

He does not describe the working context; BOWLINE is being used for entertainment here. However, he does describe the form. Note that the chorus came only on the last word, not the entire last phrase ("haul the bowline, the bowline HAUL!") as is typically performed today. We can assume it was a sheet shanty. The melody is given, in major key. As for the other three melodies without words, I don't believe them to have been shanties.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 01:12 PM

Thank you, Steve. That's useful information about "Jim Along."


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 06:31 PM

Jim along Josey was written by Edward Harper in 1840 in a play called 'The Free Nigger of New York'. It was printed by early nineteenth century printers such as John Pitts of London. (Pitts died in 1844 so he must have printed it between 1840-44. The Pitts copy is on the Bodleian website, Harding B11 (1787).

It's an interesting point. Were the African Americans singing minstrel songs or were the minstrel writers basing their songs on what the slaves were singing? Probably both.

The sensational Jump Jim Crow was said to have been based on actual observation of an African American.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 05:46 PM

In the OBERLIN STUDENT'S MONTHLY for Dec. 1858, an I. Allen has written the second (?) article devoted to "Songs of the Sailor." It is remarkably reflective. Here are excerpts.

And then, on the still morning air, there comes floating to you, mellowed by the distance, the sailor's work song, keeping time to the monotonous "click, click'' of the windlass pawls, as the anchor comes slowly up:

"We've a bully slop and a bully crew,
      Heigho, heave and go;
We've a bully mate and a captain too;
      Heigho, heave and go.''

That monotonous chorus is just as essential to the proper working of the ship as the ropes and windlass. The anchor sticks as if it had grown to the bottom, and nothing but a song can get it up....


The brake windlass song has a typical verse. The chorus seems transmutable with "roll & go," i.e a Sally Brown sort of song.

The topsails are down for reefing, and the ship strains and pitches over the "seas," while the wind over head howls and whistles the chorus of triumphant storm-fiends; but the song rises:

"Oh haulee, heigho, cheeryman !
O ! pull like brothers, heigho, cheeryman,
And not like lubbers, heigho, cheeryman;
O ! haulee, heigho, cheeryman."

And up goes the topsail: the laboring ship feels it, and plunges off like a racehorse, and the enraged wind follows whistling and howling astern.


The continued use of CHEERLY for topsail halyards. Notable perhaps that the form is "cheeryman," as in the 1852 "News from our Digger."

There was one ditty often used at the windlass, that frequently gave rise to a train of reverie in my mind, especially when combined with surrounding circumstances. The forest-crowned hills, the waving palms and cocoas, the peculiar fragrance borne to us on the landbreeze, the solemn roar of the distant surf, the red, blue and white dresses of the men, as bare-armed and footed, they worked at the windlass and elsewhere, the hundreds of swarthy forms on deck and in canoes dancing over the blue waves, all combined to give force to the idea, that you were in a foreign land. And then, amid the barbarous jargon of tongues, the crew at the windlass strike up:

"I wish I were a stormy's son;
Hurrah, storm along!
I'd storm 'em up and storm 'em down;
Storm along my stormies.
Hurrah! John Rowley,
John, storm along—
We'll storm 'em up and storm 'em down,
Storm along, my stormies.
We'll make them hear our thundering guns,
Storm along my stormies."

And then it proceeds pathetically to inform us that "Old Rowley is dead and gone," and that "they lowered him down with a golden chain," and that they'll proceed to storm somebody or other...


It's WAY STORMALONG JOHN.

...There stuck the anchor till the captain came aboard and another row, and water as a result. Then the anchor came up and we sailed away to the tune of—

"And now our prize we'll take in tow,
And tor old England we will go ;
Our pockets all well lined with brass,
We'll drink a health to our favorite lass!
Hurrah! we're homeward bou-ou-ound!
Hurrah ! we're homeward bound."


Hugill has this one under the title of OUTWARD AND HOMEWARD BOUND. Claims it was originally an old (late 18th century) ballad.

But strange as it may seem, however varied the appearance and nationality of the ship and its crew, be they from Archangel's icebound coast, or India's coral strand, Saxon or Celt, Frenchman or Turk, Russian or African, we invariably find that the strain of the sailor's worksong has the same plaintive minor key, strongly reminding one of their similarity in this respect to the sad-toned melodies of the negro race....

Ooooh, "plaintive" and "minor" again.

One evening as we were thus seated on deck, among the eager listeners to the usual songs and ghost stories, there was a young colored man who was working his passage home. "Come Pete," said one of the men, "it's your turn now; give us a song." "Can't massar only savy (know) my country song." " Oh well, let's have one of them." After considerable parleying, a dirge-like whine issued from Pete's corner, which no one suspected was intended for a song. At last one, getting impatient, cried out, "That's enough tuning up; let's have the song." Another, " What are you crying about ? We only asked for a song." "Dat my country song I" retorted the indignant Pete; and the roar with which this announcement was greeted upsetting the nerves of poor Pete, we soon found there was a slight difference between his singing and crying. Along the African coast you will hear that dirge-like strain in all their songs, as at work or paddling their canoes to and from shore, they keep time to the music. On the southern plantations you will hear it also, and in the negro melodies every where, plaintive and melodious, sad and earnest. It seems like the dirge of national degradation, the wail of a race, stricken and crushed, familiar with tyranny, submission and unrequited labor.

Wow, the author is drawing a pretty strong connection between sailors' songs and slave songs. I wonder what the abolitionist undertones may have been. Hey, it's a far cry from this 1858 statement to Cecil Sharp's 1914 statements on "the vexed question of negro influence."

And here I cannot help noticing tho similarity existing between the working chorus of the sailors and the dirge-like negro melody, to which my attention was specially directed by an incident I witnessed or rather heard.

One day we had anchored off a small town, and soon the canoe fleet of the natives was seen coming off to trade. Suddenly a well known strain of music comes floating to us on the land breeze. "Where's that singing?" cries one, " can't be that yon ship is weighing anchor ?" " Why, it's the darkies I" shouts another of the listeners; and, sure enough, there were five or six hundred of them coming off singing in two parts and keeping time with their paddles to

"Heigh Jim along, Jim along Josey, Heigh Jim along, Jim along Jo!"

They had made an advance in the scale of civilization and taken their place in the world of harmony. Then the conclusions of my speculation on the probable cause of this evident similarity between the chorus melodies of the sailor and the negro were something like these—First, the similarity of the object; that is, the unifying of effort in labor, and thus to secure simultaneous action, as in rowing, pulling, hoeing, &c., &c., by the measured and rythmical occurrence of vowel sounds.


Was not "Jim along Jo" recognized as a minstrel tune then? I'm not sure. Perhaps, again, minstrelsy took it from the folk tradition -- and that tradition may have been of (or shared with) a work-song. There is the idea (not here) that "Jim along Jo" is the same framework as "Haul Away Joe." Their prosody matches exactly. Interesting, too, that Cecil Sharp later uses "Haul Away Joe" as an example to argue why not many chanty tunes are of African-American origin. Well, he might be right. The tune might be of an Irish character, say. Of course, my take on this is that to say African-American means to imply a culture that had already absorbed influences from English, Irish, etc. African-Americans' songs are not expected to have come from Africa (just as the language is a dialect of English); what is relevant is who was singing these melodies/songs during the time under question.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 04:36 PM

Printed by Such of London at about the same time as the Glasgow one.

Fire! Down Below.

Oh, I am a simple country lad,
From London just come down,
To tell you the scrapes and narrow escapes
I had when last in town;
Twas market day, I'd sold my hay,
And stood things to admire,
When all at once a chap bawl'd oot,
Hey Master, mind the fire.
Fire! fire! fire!
   Fire down below;
Let us hope that we shall never see,
   A fire down below.,

I turned me round to ask a lass,
The cause of all this stir,
And if she'd a mind to be so kind,
As to tell me where it were;
Says she, "young man, yes that I can,
Do all that you require,
Just come with me and you shall see,
I'll take you where there's fire."

With that she linked her arm in mine,
And down the steeet we steered
To some back slum she called her home,
But still no fire appeared.
For a house we peep'd, upstairs we creep'd,
Three story's(sic) high or higher,
In a room we popp'd, all night we stopp'd.
But I couldn't find out the fire.

(I think I know where this is going!)

In the morning when I waken'd up,
My lady-bird had flown,
Not only lass, but all my brass.
And watch and clothes were gone;
Bare legg'd and feet, I ran in street,
My shirt my sole attire,
The women laughed, and the men they chaff'd,
While I kept bawling, "Fire!"

By some good chance I reached my home,
Half dead with shame and fright,
And all that saw me and all that knew me,
Said, "Spoony, served him right."
But the worst wasn't past, oh, it came at last,
I thought I should expire,
Say what you will I was very ill,
And the doctor said 'twas fire!

So all you good gentlemen,
Who a courting have not been,
Be advised by me, don't foolish be,
By all I have done and seen.
Don't miss your ways on market days,
Or stand things to admire,
But avoid back slums, and female chums,
And don't go catching fire.

A well-written tight little parody. Hope it gets sung again some time.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 04:17 PM

Fire! Fire! Fire!
printed by the Glasgow Poet's Box 23rd November, 1867

Versions were also printed by Fortey of London and Sanderson of Edinburgh at about the same time.

As I went out de oder night
To take a little walk,
I ran again a fireman,
And to him I did talk.
He asked me what I wanted,
Or what I did require,
And just as he was saying dis
A nigger called out "Fire!"

Chorus--Fire! fire! fire!
Now I's bound to go;
       Can't you give us a bucket of water,
Dere's a fire down below.

Away we ran for de old engine,
To old Aunt Sally's dwelling;
Aunt Sally came to meet de flames,
To help dem I was willing
Aunt Sally jumped on de coachman's box,
I thought I should expire,
To see her grin on de old engine,
As we went to de fire.

When we got to de house on fire,
We off de engine hopped;
Aunt Sally up de ladder flew,
All for to reach de top.
Her heel did slip, and down she fell,
Instead of going higher;
She fell up to her neck in water,
And declared she was in de fire.

Aunt Sally kicked, Aunt Sally screamed,
And declared she was burnt to death;
De splashing ob de water
Soon put de flames to rest.
I caught hold of Aunt Sally's arms,
I thought she would expire;
She does declare to dis berry day,
She set de water on fire.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 04:03 PM

Gibb, 'I don't see how that would work for the chanty. Reading it closer, I think the crew was perhaps just walking the slack, after which, in positions, they did a pull in place. What do others think?

I read the same as you here.

Why does the author in 1858 not use the term "chanty"?
I didn't think the term was in wide universal use until later. Not everyone would be familiar with it. The writer is also speaking as a very observant outsider, not someone actively involved. He was simply observing, not talking to the crew.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 03:33 PM

As for minstrel songs -- those especially of the late 1830s thru 1850s -- influencing chanties, the fact is well known. But because this thread's subject is more about seeing the emergence of chanteying (i.e. maritime work-singing) as a whole, and not the individual trajectories of songs, I've not been inclined to note all the minstrel songs from those years (i.e. outside of maritime and working context).

Some deserve special note, however. We talked about STORMY appearing in WHITE'S NEW ILLUSTRATED MELODEON of 1848 -- a collection, which means the songs were popular on stage even a few years earlier, perhaps. One could make a good case that STORMY was borrowed into the minstrel repertoire from the cotton-stowing context.

So I want to mention two other songs that I think one could argue were also taken from work-songs.

The same collection has THE SAILOR FIREMAN. It had been documented before this date as a "stoker's chaunt" in 1839. And after this, it appears among steamboat hands in Olmsted's account. In other words, the song was linked to the steamboat fireman's profession. heres how it appears in the 1848 collection:

FIRE DOWN BELOW

I'll fire dis trip, but I'll fire no more
    Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!
Oh, pay me my money , and I'll go on shore
    Fire down below.

Miss Fanny Bell, oh, fare you well
I'm gwine away, p'r'aps to [Hell]

A bully boat, and a bully crew
An' a bully ragin' captain, too

De possum jump, and de panther roar
I woke dis mornin' at half-past four

I crept out safely from my five
An took a dram at half-past five

Says I, "ole boat, let's have no tricks"
Her biler bust at half-past six

So now we trabbel under sail
'Kase Jonah's de man dat swallowed de whale

I'll fire dis trip but I'll fire no more
Pay me my money, an I'll go on shore

Hugill included this in his collection; he'd taken it from a Swedish chantey collection. The verses are so similar, that it seems to be this minstrel version misheard/folk-processed. Here's a rendition. Still, I believe this song's existence was not dependent on the popular stage.

The other song of note in White collection is the "other" "Fire Down Below" song. This is the whose framework may (my conjecture) go back to British Navy days, but which had become ubiquitous among African-American laborers.

FIRE, FIRE, FIRE

Composed and sung by the Pet of Minstrels, Cool White, and received nightly with thunders of applause, at the Head Quarters of all Serenaders and Minstrels, the Melodeon, 53 Bowery, New-York.

I left de husking party late,
   I began to grow quite tire,
But 'fore I got to massa's gate,
I heard de cry ob fire
Chorui: Fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire,
      An I am bound to go,
    Yes, I am bound to go;
    Den tote dat bucket ob water, [boys?]
    Dar's fire down below

De fireman rushes to de spot,
What shriek is dat I hear!
De widow hab de child forgot,
Twill perish yet I fear.
Fire, fire, fire, fire, &c.

De fireman hears dat dreadful cry,
   I golly, dat's enough ;
De smoke an fire, he both defy,
His skin am thick an tough.
Fire, fire, fire, fire, &c.

Dat shout again, 'tis one ob joy,
De hero now appears,
De widow takes her darling boy,
She thanks him wid her tears.
          Fire, fire, fire, fire, &c.

It corresponds --I say-- to this strain of song, as in Hugill's Version "D'.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 11:18 PM

Another question: Why does the author in 1858 not use the term "chanty"?


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 10:48 PM

BTW, is this perhaps the first article devoted to Sea Songs?


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 10:35 PM

THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY for July 1858 contains an article on "Songs of the Sea."

Here are some passages about work-songs.

The sailor does not lack for singing. He sings at certain parts of his work;—indeed, he must sing, if he would work. On vessels of war, the drum and fife or boatswain's whistle furnish the necessary movement regulator. There, where the strength of one or two hundred men can be applied to one and the same effort, the labor is not intermittent, but continuous. The men form on either side of the rope to be hauled, and walk away with it like firemen inarching with their engine. When the headmost pair bring up at the stern or bow, they part, and the two streams flow back to the starting-point, outside the following files. Thus in this perpetual " follow-my-leader " way the work is done, with more precision and steadiness than in the merchant-service. Merchantmen are invariably manned with the least possible number, and often go to sea shorthanded, even according to the parsimonious calculations of their owners. The only way the heavier work can be done at all is by each man doing his utmost at the same moment. This is regulated by the song. And here is the true singing of the deep sea. It is not recreation; it is an essential part of the work. It mastheads the topsail-yards, on making tail; it starts the anchor from the domestic or foreign mud; it " rides down the main tack with a will"; it breaks out and takes on board cargo; it keeps the pumps (the ship's,—not the sailor's) going. A good voice and a new and stirring chorus are worth an extra man. And there is plenty of need of both.

What a great statement on the difference of work in a Navy versus a merchant vessel. It provides perfect evidence for the argument that merchant vessels "needed" chanties.

I remember well one black night in the mid-Atlantic, when we were beating up
against a stiff breeze, coming on deck near midnight, just as the ship was put about. When a ship is tacking, the tacks and sheets (ropes which confine the clews or lower corners of the sails) are let run, in order that the yards may be swung round to meet the altered position of the ship. They must then be hauled taut again, and belayed, or secured, in order to keep the sails in their place and to prevent them from shaking. When the ship's head comes up in the wind, the sail is for a moment or two edgewise to it, and then is the nice moment, as soon as the head-sails fairly fill, when the main-yard and the yards above it can be swung readily, and the tacks and sheets hauled in. If the crew are too few in number, or too slow at their work, and the sails get fairly filled on the new tack, it is a fatiguing piece of work enough to " board " the tacks and sheets, as it is called. You are pulling at one end of the rope,—but the gale is tugging at the other. The advantages of lungs are all against you, and perhaps the only thing to be done is to put the helm down a little, and set the sails shaking' again before they can be trimmed properly.—It was just at such a time that I came on deck, as above mentioned. Being near eight bells, the watch on deck had been not over spry ; and the consequence was that our big main-course was slatting and flying out overhead with a might that shook the ship from stem to stern. The flaps of the mad canvas were like successive thumps of a giant's fist upon a mighty drum. The sheets were jerking at the belaying-pins, the blocks rattling in sharp snappings like castanets. You could hear the hiss and seething of the sea alongside, and see it flash by in sudden white patches of phosphorescent foam, while all overhead was black with the flying scud. The English second-mate was stamping with vexation, and, with all his Hs misplaced, storming at the men:— "'An'somely the weather main-brace,— 'an'somely, I tell you!—'Alf a dozen of you clap on to the main sheet here,— down with 'im!—D'ysee 'ore's hall like a midshipman's bag,—heverythink huppermost and nothing 'andy.—'Aul 'im in, Hi say!"—But the sail wouldn't come, though. All the most forcible expressions of the Commination-Service were liberally bestowed on the watch. " Give us the song, men!" sang out the mate, at last,— " pull with a will!—together, men!—haltogether now! "—And then a cracked, melancholy voice struck up this chant:

"Oh, the bowline, bully bully bowline,
Oh, the bowline, bowline, HAUL!"

At the last word every man threw his whole strength into the pull,—all singing it in chorus, with a quick, explosive sound. And so, jump by jump, the sheet was at last hauled taut.—I dare say this will seem very much spun out to a seafarer, but landsmen like to hear of the sea and its ways; and as more landsmen than seamen, probably, read the " Atlantic Monthly," I have told them of one genuine sea-song, and its time and place.


The classic sheet shanty.

Then there are pumping-songs. "The dismal sound of the pumps is heard," says Mr. Webster's Plymouth-Rock Oration ; but being a part of the daily morning duty of a well-disciplined merchant vessel,—just a few minutes' spell to keep the vessel free and cargo unharmed by bilge-water,—it is not a dismal sound at all, but rather a lively one. It was a favorite amusement with us passengers on board the --- to go forward about
pumping-time to the break of the deck and listen. Any quick tune to which you might work a fire-engine will serve for the music, and the words were varied with every fancy.
"Pay me the money down," was one favorite chorus, and the verse ran thus:—

Solo. " Your money, young man, is no object to me.
Chorus. Pay me the money down!
Sola. Half a crown's no great amount.
Chorus. Pay me the money down!
Solo and Chorus. (Bis.) Money down, money down, pay me the money down! "

Not much sense in all this, but it served to man and move the brakes merrily. Then there were other choruses, which, were heard from time to time, —" And the young gals goes a
weepin',"—" O long storm, storm along stormy"; but the favorite tune was "Money down," at least with our crew. They were not an avaricious set, either; for their parting ceremony, on embarking, was to pitch the last half-dollars of their advance on to the wharf, to be scrambled for by the land-sharks. But " Money down " was the standing chorus. I once heard, though not on board that ship, the lively chorus of " Off she goes, and off she must go,"—

" Highland day and off she goes,
Off she goes with a flying fore-topsail,
Highland day and off she goes."

It is one of the most spirited things imaginable, when well sung, and, when applied to the topsail-halyards, brings the yards up in grand style.


So PAY ME THE MONEY DOWN is used for pumping (brake style), along with (implied) ACROSS THE WESTERN OCEAN and STORMALONG. Is the last one HIGHLAND LADDIE? Or is it perhaps something related to Hugill's "Hilonday"?


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 09:43 PM

From John M.:

////
Here is a reference to ""Whiskey, Johnny" from 1857. In his book, THE MERCANTILE MARINE, E. Keble Chatterton [2009] prints a long quote from a "recently published" book by Sir Wiliam B. Forwood entitled REMINISCENCES OF A LIVERPOOL SHIPOWNER [1920]. Forwood is recollecting a voyage on the "Red Jacket" in 1857. Forwood says, "On the morning of 20th November, 1857...I embarked by a tender from the Liverpool pierhead." The anchor is heaved [via windlass] "to a merry chantie" which is "In 1847 Paddy Murphy went to Heaven".

[In 1847 Paddy Murphy went to Heaven
To work on the railway, the railway, the railway
Oh, poor Paddy works on the railway]

The next morning, they were off Holy head and the order came "loose the headsails." (pp. 158-159):

"Now then, my men, lead your topsail halyards fore and aft, and up with them'. And the crew walk along with the halyards, and then with a long pull and a pull all together the topsail yards are mastheaded to the chantie:

       "Then up the yard must go,
                Whiskey for my Johnny,
       Oh, whiskey for the life of man,
                Whiskey, Johnny.'"
////

So, PADDY ON THE RAILWAY at the brake windlass...and WHISKEY JOHNNY at the halyards. It sounds like they may have been doing a stamp 'n' go maneuver at the halyards, but I don't see how that would work for the chanty. Reading it closer, I think the crew was perhaps just walking the slack, after which, in positions, they did a pull in place. What do others think?


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 09:05 PM

Courtesy of John Minear:

///
Here is a version of "Row, Bullies Row" from 1857. It is in THE KNICKERBOCKER, VOL L., 1857, in an article entitled "The Life of a Midshipmen", by "John Jenkins" (?). He is at the Brooklyn Naval Yard and is being rowed out to his first assignment on board the US Frigate "Shenandoah". It is presented as a rowing song:

[As the launch (which, to my surprise, proved to be nothing more than a large boat) was heavily laden, and the tide running strong against us, the pull to the ship was a very heavy one ; so, to lighten their labors, the midshipman in charge of the boat, gave permission to ' the men ' to sing; upon which they regaled our ears with at least a dozen of the most popular sea-songs of the day, concluding with one, (which I afterward found to be a great favorite among seamen,) where the singers are two — the one (taking for his theme whatever comes uppermost in his mind) making some statement; the other asking a question in relation to it, to which the first replies — the whole boat's crew joining in the chorus. In the present instance it was as follows:]

'Oh! I do love that good, old bottle!
   Row, bullies, row!
Oh! I do love that good, old bottle!
   Row, my bullies, row!
Why do yo love that good, old bottle?
   Row, my bullies, row!
I love it 'cause it suits my throttle!
    Row, my bullies, row!
I love it 'cause it suits my throttle!
    Row, my bullies, row!

   After singing five more verses in the same elegant strain, we happened to pass a bum-boat, in which were seated a fat, old white woman and a negro boy, whereupon the singers roared out with great glee, and in a higher key than before:

'Yonder sits a dear old lady!
    Row, my bullies, row!
Yonder sits a dear old lady!
   Row, my bullies, row!
How do you know she is a lady?
    Row, my bullies, row!
How do you know she is a lady?
    Row, my bullies, row!
I know her by her nigger baby!
    Row, my bullies, row!
I know her by her nigger baby!"   
    Row, my bullies, row!            
////

I wonder about the time period. I don't find any Frigate SHENANDOAH around in 1857 (?). I wonder if this account is from quite a bit earlier. It is much like the song in The American Journal of Music and Musical Vistor, 1845 (above), and it may well have been the same song as what we now know as BLOW BOYS BLOW.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 08:31 PM

From John Stirling Fisher's A BUILDER OF THE WEST, we have "[Hi yi, yi, yi,Mister Storm roll on, Storm Along,] Storm Along," "All on the Plains of Mexico", and "Aha, we're bound away, on the wild Missouri", from the memoirs of General William Jackson Palmer, in 1856

Unfortunately, the specific context of these songs is not noted. The passenger heard them on a packet ship from Liverpool to New York.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 08:03 PM

Here is the relevant passage in A JOURNEY IN THE SEABOARD SLAVE STATES by Frederick Law Olmsted, copyright 1856.

It is 1853. He is traveling on a steamboat on the Red River to Shrevport, LA.

We backed out, winded round head up, and as we began to breast the current, a dozen of the negro boat-hands, standing on the freight, piled up on the low forecastle, began to sing, waving hats and handkerchiefs, and shirts lashed to poles, towards the people who stood on the sterns of the steam-boats at the levee. After losing a few lines, I copied literally into my note-book:

"Ye see dem boat way dah ahead.
Chorus.—Oahoiohieu.
De San Charles is arter 'em, dey mus go behine.
Cho.—Oahoiohieu.

So stir up dah, my livelies, stir her up; (pointing to the furnaces).
Cho.—Oahoiohieu.
Dey's burnin' not'n but fat and rosum.
Cho.—Oahoiohieu.

Oh, we is gwine up de Red River, oh!
Cho.—Oahoiohieu.
Oh, we mus part from you dah asho'.
Cho.—Oahoiohieu.

Give my lub to Dinah, oh!
Cho.—Oahoiohieu.
For we is gwine up de Red River.
Cho.—Oahoiohieu.

Yes, we is gwine up de Red River.
Cho.—Oahoiohieu.
Oh we must part from you dah oh.
Cho.—Oahoiohieu."

[The wit introduced into these songs has, I suspect, been rather over-estimated. On another occasion I took down the following:

" John come down in de holler,
   Oh, work and talk and holler,
   Oh, John, come down in de ho ler,
Ime gwine away to-morrow.
Oh, John, &c.

Ime gwine away to marry,
Oh, John, &c.

Get my cloves in order,
Oh. John, &c.

I'se gwine away to-morrow,
Oh, John, &c.

Oh, work and talk and holler,
Oh, John, &c.

Massa guv me dollar,
Oh, John, &c.

Don't cry yer eyes out, honey,
Oh, John, &c.

I'm gwine to get some money,
Oh, John, &c.

But I'll come back to-morrow,
Oh, John, &c.

So work and talk and holler,
Oh, John, &c.

Work all day and Sunday,
Oh, John, &c.

Massa get de money,
Oh, John, &c.

After the conclusion of this song, and after the negroes had left the bows, and were coming aft along the guards, we passed two or three colored nurses, walking with children on the river bank; as we did so the singers jumped on some cotton bales, bowed very low to them, took off their hats, and swung and waved them, and renewed their song :

God bless yon all, dah ! ladies !
Oh, John come down in de holler,

Farwell, de Lord be wid you, honey,
    Oh, John, come down, &c.

Done cry yerself to def,
    Oh, John. &c.

I'm gwine down to New Orleans,
    Oh, John. &c

I'll come back, dough, bime-by,
    Oh, John, &c,

So far-you-well, my honey,
    Oh, John, &c.

Far-you-well, all you dah, shore,
    Oh, John, &c.

And save your cotton for de Dalmo!
Oh, John, &c]


The Black boat-hands singing are not working. However, one might presume (?) the songs would be the same ones they would use working -- for fireman duties. The first one, THE SAILOR FIREMAN, is attested elsewhere as a work-song, as is the famous JOHNNY COME DOWN TO HILO.

It may be notable that although Olmsted gave the work-songs on a whaling voyage in 1840 (above), he does not compare these songs to those (which were the old DRUNKEN SAILOR and "Nancy Fanana"/"Haul 'er Away").


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: shipcmo
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 04:41 PM

Don't suppose it had anything to do with "Liza Lee"?
Hoist one!
Geo


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 04:19 PM

I can't find a thing on "Miranda Lee". I wonder what this song was about.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 02:34 PM

Just to add to John's last entry, Mulford 1889:

The WIZARD described was a clipper ship, bound NY > San Francisco. 1856 is also my best guess -- the author makes the time period very confusing. Though he refers to a windlass in the context of shanties, that is a general reference; the songs specifically mentioned are not necessarily ascribed to that task. Each is being ascribed to pumping. They must have been using the "Downton pump" (i.e. not the brake-lever style, whose action is much like a windlass) because later he says they fitted it with "bell ropes." That means that some guys were doing a hauling action.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 09:01 AM

This looks like it might be a reference to a Gold Rush voyage to San Francisco in 1856. It is from LIFE BY LAND AND SEA, by Prentice Mulford, originally published in 1889. He is on board the "Wizard", and there is a lot of pumping going on. He says,

"For the first six weeks all the "shanty songs" known on the sea had been sung. Regularly at each pumping exercise we had "Santy Anna," "Bully in the Alley," "Miranda Lee," "Storm Along, John," and other operatic maritime gems, some of which might have a place in our modern operas of "The Pinafore" school. There's a good deal of rough melody when these airs are rolled out, by twenty or thirty strong lungs to the accompaniment of a windlass' clank and the wild, shrill sweep of the winds in the rigging above." (p. 24    Here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ClgFQ2SwJQ0C&pg=PA24&dq=%22Bully+in+the+Alley%22&lr=&cd=12#v=onepage&q=%22Bully%20in%20the%20Al


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 12:12 AM

GENTLEMEN'S MAGAZINE for Oct. 1839 contains a story supposedly based on the logs of the USS CONSTITUTION in action during the War of 1812. Outside of any context, the article quotes the words to the chantey, FIRE DOWN BELOW.

"Fire! in the main-top,
Fire! in the bow.
Fire! on the gun-deck,
Fire! down below."


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 11:03 PM

PUTNAM'S MONTHLY for Jan. 1855 had an article entitled "Negro Minstrelsy - Ancient and Modern". It contains the following passage, which includes lyrics to two songs that relate to the maritime repertoire (in an imagined Georgia):

And now, faintly heard far over the water, I distinguish the soft thump of oars in the rowlock of an approaching boat. I listen with attentive ears—for I know by experience the gratification in store for me—and soon catch the distant tones of the human voice— now more faintly heard, and now entirely lost. A few minutes pass, and the breeze once more wafts to me the swelling notes of the chorus half buried in the measured cadeuce of the oars. The wind dies away, and my straining ears again hear nothing but the measured beat of the rowers, and the plashing of the restless sea. But now, anew, I hear the sound of those manly negro voices swelling up upon the evening gale. Nearer and nearer conies the boat, higher and higher rises the melody, till it overpowers and subdues the noise of the oars, which in their turn become subservient to the song, and mark its time with harmonious beating. And now the boat is so near, that every word and every tone comes to my ear, over the water, with perfect distinctness, and I recognize the grand old triumphal chorus of the stirring patriotic melody of " Gen'el Jackson":

"Gen'el Jackson, mighty man—
Whaw, my kingdom, fire away;
He fight on iea, and he fight on land,
Whaw, my kingdom, fire away.

Gen'el Jackson gain de day—
Whaw, my kingdom, fire away,
Be gain de day in Floraday,
Whaw, my kingdom, flre away.

Gen'el Jackson fine de trail,
Whaw, my kingdom, flre away,
He full um fote wid cotton bale,
Whaw, my kingdom, fire away."

But the boat touches the beach; the negroes with a wild cry quit their singing, tumble out into the shallow water, drag their dug-out up high and dry upon the sand, and I am left once more with the evening breeze and the quieter harmony of nature.

The song, a part of which I have just quoted, is fresh from the sable mint in which it was coined. Its originality and genuineness every one familiar with plantation life will at once perceive; while some Georgians may even be able to point to the very river on which the dusky troubadours still chant it. I am well aware that in depriving the words of their appropriate music, I rob it of much of its attractiveness, and still it is no bad sample of what may be called the Historic Plantation Ballad. The particular naval battle in which Old Hickory was engaged, I have not been able to discover; but the allusion to the bales of cotton in the third stanza may not be without its effect in settling one of the vexed questions relating to the defence of New Orleans; and it adds another to the many examples of the superiority of oral tradition over contemporaneous written history.

It is not alone, however, on the water that these quaint songs are produced. The annual corn-shucking season has its own peculiar class of songs, never heard but on that festival; their rhythmical structure or caesural pauses not being adapted to the measured cadence of the oars. Standing at a little distance from the corn heap, on some dark and quiet night, watching the sable forms of the gang, illuminated at intervals by the flashes of the lightwood knot, and listening to the wild high notes of their harvest songs, it is easy to imagine ourselves unseen spectators of some secret aboriginal rite or savage festival. Snatches of one or two songs which on such occasions I have heard, recur to me. Could I in the following specimen give you any idea of the wild grandeur and stirring music of the refrain, I should need no apology for presenting it to my readers.

"De ladies in de parlor.
Hey, come a rollln' down—
A drinking tea and coffee;
Good morning ladies all.

"De gemmen in de kitchen,
Hey come a rollln' down—
A drinking brandy toddy ;
Good morning, ladies all."


More clues to the origin of "Fire Maringo" -- The 2nd Seminole War in Florida (1835-1842), perhaps? -- and an example of its use for rowing (i.e. not just cotton-stowing). "Good morning, ladies all" may not be the same song as the chantey, though it does have a chantey form, and it is being used for "work."


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 10:28 PM

From a story by Edgar S. Farnsworth called "The Yarn of the Watch" in BALLOU'S MONTHLY MAGAZINE, VOL. 2, [August] 1855, we have "Storm along, Stormy"

It's a general reference to how a crew might sing that song. No specific occasion mentioned.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 10:17 PM

Here's one to file back with the African-American rowing descriptions of the 1830s.

THE PLANTER, by David Brown, 1853. The narrator is on the St. Johns River, Florida. It is Feb. 1834.


What most surprised us in the negroes,—strangers till then to their peculiarities—was their remarkable talent of improvisation. Their extemporaneous songs at the oar, suited to various scenes and occasions and circumstances present, induced the natural feeling that our boatmen were a set of rare geniuses, selected by our generous friend for the purpose of giving us additional pleasure and surprise. It was afterwards found that extemporaneous singing was not uncommon among them.

The negro boatman of the South seems inspired by the improvising muse whenever he seizes the oar; and especially if it be to row a company of agreeable people on a party of pleasure. If there be young ladies of the number, they may be quite sure to be introduced by the muse, and to receive not only compliments, but admonitions.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 10:00 PM

In "Notes and Queries" for August 1851, a contributer (T.W.) mentions an earlier published firemen's song. Here is what he/she says:

In the 231st number of that excellent New York periodical, The Literary World, published on the 5th of July, there is an article on "Steamboats and Steamboating in the South West," in which I find the following passage: —

"I mentioned the refrain of the firemen. Now as a particular one is almost invariably sung by Negroes when they have anything to do with or about a fire; whether it be while working at a New Orleans fire-engine, or crowding wood into the furnaces of a steamboat; whether they desire to make an extra racket at leaving, or evince their joy at returning to a port, it may be worth recording; and here it is:

Fire on the quarter-deck,
Fire on the bow,
Fire on the gun-deck,
Fire down below !'

The last line is given by all hands with great vim (sic) and volume; and as for the chorus itself, you will never meet or pass a boat, you will never behold the departure or arrival of one, and you will never witness a New Orleans fire, without hearing it."

The writer says nothing about the origin of this Negro melody, and therefore he is, I presume, unaware of it. But many of your readers will at once recognise the spirited lines, which when once they are read in Walter Scott's Pirate, have somehow a strange pertinacity in ringing in one's ears, and creep into a nook of the memory, from which they ever and anon insist on emerging to the lips. The passage occurs at the end of the fifth chapter of the third volume, where the pirates recapture their runaway captain : —

" They gained their boat in safety, and jumped into it, carrying along with them Cleveland, to whom circumstances seemed to offer no other refuge, and pushed off for their vessel, singing in chorus to their oars an old ditty, of which the natives of Kirkwall could only hear the first stanza :

'Thus said the Rover
   To his gallant crew,
Up with the black flag,
   Down with the blue!
Fire on the main-top,
   Fire on the bow.
Fire on the gun-deck,
   Fire down below !'"


How did the song get from Walter Scott to 1840s era Black Americans? I am supposing that the song was earlier prevalent as a song in British ships. Fascinating, then, that it would have become ubiquitous among African-Americans in certain trades. Incidentally, this reminds me that, though we've touched upon it slightly elsewhere on Mudcat (e.g. in reference to "bulgine"), we've yet to bring in the possible influence of fire-fighter's songs here.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 09:35 PM

THE WESTERN WILDS OF AMERICA, by John Regan (2nd. edition, 1859), mentions a riverboat trip in the Mississippi Valley (Galena River, Illinois) that he took circa 1843-1846. No specific song is mentioned, but he does describe his impression of the singing of African-American firemen:

About dark a steamer from Galena going down, called at the landing-place to take in grain, and we got on board to vary the journey and ease our limbs. The night was exceedingly hot and oppressive, and we stretched ourselves upon deck, hard by the windlass. The fires, as is usual, were upon this lower deck, served by negroes. As we lay with our hats drawn over our faces in a half doze, the firemen struck up one of those singularly wild and impressive glees which negroes alone can sing effectively. By turns the singer would break out into measured tones of laughter, followed by an outburst of musical salvoes, very singular and very commanding, coming as they did from the lungs of half a dozen or more. This would be succeeded by a sharp, piercing, "desolate howl," and this again by the full chorus of negro voices, aided by the black cook, who, captivated by the strains, would lean his breast up against his galley door, and grin out his satisfaction in true character, To describe in writing, however, the singular effect of this strange medley of sounds, would be impossible.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 05:52 PM

From an article entitled "News From Our Digger" an account from 1852, in TAIT'S EDINBURGH MAGAZINE, VOLUME 19, we have reference to "Cheerymen" and "Storm along, my Stormy".

So this is a trip in Australia's Gold Rush days, in a packet ship, CHALMERS, which left Aug. 1852 from Gravesend (on the Thames) and bound for Melbourne. Published 1853. The author, a gold-seeking passenger, writes:

Songs Afloat.—There is one thing in particular which is sure to attract the attention of a landsman when he first sets his foot on board ship, and this is the songs sung by the seamen whilst performing their various duties. These songs, which often, as regards words, are made impromptu, are most enlivening and spirited; and a good singing crow, with a clever leader, may, in my opinion, be looked upon in the light of a blessing on board any ship. In a little schooner in which I made a voyage up the Mediterranean, we had some excellent singers; and scarcely was a rope touched, sail set, or other heavy work done, without a song : and this may, in some measure, be accounted for by the encouragement given them by our captain, who would often promise all hands a tot of rum, if they did their work in a seamanlike manner, and sang well. The good effect of this was very visible on the men, who evidently pulled the ropes more cheerfully and with double vigour. The following are specimens:—

On Hauling up Topsail Yards, after Reefing.

Polly Racket, hi-ho, cheerymen—(pull),
Pawned my jacket, hi-ho, cheerymen—(pull),
And sold the ticket, hi-ho, cheerymen—(pull);
Ho, hawly, hi-ho, cheerymen—(pull).

Eouse him up, hi-ho, cheerymen—(pull),
Pull up the devil, hi-ho, cheerymen—(pull);
And make him civil, hi-ho, cheerymen—(pull),
Oh, hawly, hi-ho, cheerymen—(pull).

***
I wish I was old Stormy's son,
Hurra, and storm along :
I'd give the sailors lots of rum,
Storm along, my Stormy.
Chorus—Hurra!—hurra!—hurra!—storm along,
    Storm along, my roving blades,
    Storm along, my Stormy.


Notes:

This is the first *shipboard* appearance of STORMY that I am seeing. The text's layout makes it confusing as to whether Stormy was also used for halliards. Well, it is listed as if it were, however, the full chorus is not characteristic of what we now associate with halyard chanties. (In Hugill's version, for example, this chorus seems to be chopped off.) The passenger may have noted this song, but not properly distinguished the task. If we consider that "Stormy" may have been borrowed from the cotton-stowers' repertoire...and as those "chants" were earlier (i.e. Nordhoff) compared to capstan songs, we'd expect this Stormy to be for a heaving task. On the other hand, if it was in fact used for halyards, that means cotton chants were adapted to halliards, too. Either way it is significant, but I'm not sure which way!

Interesting to see how CHEERLY persisted into this time, as a halliard chantey. In this example, there is a clear 4-phrase stanza-like form -- as it appears in Hugill. In other words, it wasn't just "say a line, then pull at the end," but rather the melodic cadences and the "hawly" phrase caused sets of 4 lines to be grouped.

Also interesting how the passenger attests hearing chanties for all work on a schooner. That statement may have to be qualified by something we are unaware of. However, it seems to contradict the idea that chanties weren't used on schooners "because they weren't needed." Perhaps the "need" for chanties on packet ships is what spurned the development, and once they became ubiquitous there, they became popular on lighter fore/aft rigged vessels, too.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 05:42 PM

Here are a couple of references I missed, but I think you've covered two of them.

{1850s} W Craig , ADVENTURES IN THE AUSTRALIAN GOLD FIELDS, 1903 "Two shanty fragments as sung on the sailing ships bringing gold seekers to Sydney. (From Warren Fahey's website).

"Oh fare you well, my own Mary Anne" [pumping]
" When first we went a-waggoning" [anchor hauling]

http://warrenfahey.com/maritime-3.htm

{1850s} OCEAN LIFE IN THE OLD SAILING SHIP DAYS, John D. Whidden. Whidden's source is his "old friend, Captain George Meacom, of Beverly [Mass.]." Meacom refers to his own recollection of the 1850s, and his testimony seems to be reliable. (See Gibb's note above)

"Mobile Bay" /"Johnnie Come Tell Us As We Haul Away"
"Fire Down Below"
"One More Day For Johnnie"

http://books.google.com/books?id=cj0NAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA99&dq=%22One+more+day+for+Johnnie%22&cd=1#v=onepage&q=%22One%20more%20day%20f

{1853} A JOURNEY IN THE SEABOARD SLAVE STATES Frederick Law Olmsted, 1861

"Oahoiohieu" / "The Sailor Fireman" ("Lindy Lowe") [riverboat]
"Oh, John, come down in de holler" [riverboat]

(scroll down):

http://books.google.com/books?id=koMIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA607&dq=You+see+dem+boat+way+dah+head&lr=&cd=33#v=onepage&q&f=false


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 04:44 PM

P.S. I'd like to try that Chinese root beer.


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 04:42 PM

Perfect, John!!

Now to digest them, bit by bit.

***

This one is great; unfortunately I don't have the book, either.

From SHE WAS A SISTER SAILOR: THE WHALING JOURNALS OF MARY BREWSTER, 1845-1851, there is a reference (from a snippet) to "Tally hi o you know".

The only thing I'll add is that [TALLY] was said to have been sung while weighing anchor. However, without more info, I don't know which device was used: capstan, spoke windlass (e.g. as in the Moby Dick film), or the pump/brake windlass (e.g. as on the CHARLES W. MORGAN).


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 04:07 PM

Gibb, this was my attempt to pull it all together. I may have missed something but I don't think so. The dating in some cases may be open to debate. I put them into the 1850's not because that's when they were published but because that was, *as near as I could tell*, their original reference point. Here are the links to the other thread. You will see that I dropped two references that I either had second thoughts on or Lighter corrected me on.

thread.cfm?threadid=126347&messages=544#2882167

thread.cfm?threadid=126347&messages=544#2882720


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 02:57 PM

Thanks, John. Does that set represent a distillation (more or less) of the 1850s references from that thread, or just some of the recent ones?

Steve -- NYC it is!


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Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 02:51 PM

Just one glance at this and we surely have our burgeoning of chanty singing in the 1850s. There are about 20 titles mentioned in there.


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