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Subject: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:00 PM Be prepared for some Welsh stuff. Last Sunday, the St David's Welsh Society, of which I am a member, had its annual Gymanfa Ganu, which is a hymn-singing event. We sing in four parts, and we have a skilled leader. Somebody always sings an aria or three, and in this case, it was our leader, who has a PhD in music and grew up in a Welsh-speaking town in Ohio. When I arrived, there was a serious shortage of sopranos. However, more and more of them appeared from somewhere, and soon the sound was quite glorious. By the time we sang 'Land of my Fathers' (the Welsh anthem) it felt as if the roof would lift up with sheer joy. Over cookies and tea (we don't do booze) somebody told me to go on YouTube and search for Max Boyce. Well, I went home and fell into bed for three hours. Then I got up, and at 1 a.m. was laughing over Max Boyce. He is a Welsh singer, formerly a miner. His songs deal mostly with rugby. I warn you, they can get gross. But what a voice! What audiences! I love it when he sings that they will roll back the roof of the stadium "So God can watch us play." Do you wonder why the Welsh are famous for singing? Listen to the vowels in those songs. The O in 'Ar Hyd y Nos' (All Through the Night) deserves an award of some kind. I have figured out most of it by now, but I have one question. I believe it's in the song about the trip to Scotland. What is he saying about Calon Lan? (for you non-Welsh, that's the name of a song) |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Beer Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:11 PM Any chance of posting a link to what you are raving about. Would be great to have a listen. Beer (adrien) |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: katlaughing Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:38 PM Here's the Trip to Scotland one. Hilarious! |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: katlaughing Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:45 PM Here is one version of Calon Lan which has some nice historical pictures. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: katlaughing Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:57 PM I like this version of Calon Lan better though! Of course, I do not understand the language, but there is another video which has it in English, so I'll listen to it. Thanks for telling us about him! Just enjoyed Down At the Bottom of the Garden, too! Your session sounds as though it was awesome! |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Beer Date: 25 Mar 10 - 11:15 PM Kat, I just finished looking and listening to what you posted. Wonderful, beautiful, RELAXING, INTRALL.....Just great. Thanks. good luck GUEST,leeneia ad. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: MARINER Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:45 AM I find it amazing that anyone with even a passing interest in Welsh music only heard of Max Boyce now. He's been around since the 60s and has sold bucket fulls of records since then .Who could ever forget "Hymns and Arias ",or "We all had Doctor's papers",just two of the Boyce classics.But however, better late than never .Enjoy him. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: John MacKenzie Date: 26 Mar 10 - 05:56 AM Glad you found him, I always loved him, and his passion for rugby union. His poetic evocation of Stradey Park and Llanelli RFC [The Scarlets] are hymns of praise indeed. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 26 Mar 10 - 06:40 AM I played harp on a couple of his albums (recorded at Abbey Road, no less) and I can tell you that he's one of the nicest, most genuine, warm-hearted fellas I've ever come across. This was at the height of his fame, yet there wasn't a trace of look-at-me-I'm-a-star about him, though he was one. He even carried my harp out the the taxi for me (thought the cab driver was going to faint). I'm so glad to see this thread. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Newport Boy Date: 26 Mar 10 - 07:30 AM Leeneia - I have figured out most of it by now, but I have one question. I believe it's in the song about the trip to Scotland. What is he saying about Calon Lan? (for you non-Welsh, that's the name of a song) I think you're thinking of 'Hymns and Arias', about the January trip to London. We paid our weekly shilling for that January trip: A long weekend in London, aye, without a bit of kip. There's a seat reserved for beer by the boys from Abercarn: There's beer, pontoon, crisps and fags and a croaking 'Calon Lan'. Phil |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,Silas Date: 26 Mar 10 - 07:30 AM 'Some people are only alive today because it is illegal to kill them' Just about sums up my sentiments about the idiot. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Bryn Pugh Date: 26 Mar 10 - 07:37 AM Guest Silas - d'oes y d'iawn cythril ag iffar. Fyned a'r pysio, a oes welwch chi 'n da. Me'n yna, cusio fy nghwll. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,Silas Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:00 AM Most impressive. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Anne Lister Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:16 AM I played support for Max on a memorable occasion when I was about 17 ...he was warm, friendly and worked the audience extremely well. Oh, and my husband made a walking leek for one of his stage shows. What a fine singer, songwriter, comedian and human being. Perhaps Guest Silas would explain what his problem is? |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,Silas Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:33 AM He comes over as insincere and smarmy, just makes you want to vomit when you see him perform. Apart from that he's wonderful. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Bloke from Poole Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:41 AM leeneia, if you're still here, wouldn't mind a bit more background on your leader. PM me if you like. Some ancestral relatives moved to Ohio from Wales and there is a strong Welsh subculture in which I have some interest. Google "Venedocia". Their Gymanfa Ganu events are important there. WRT Max Boyce, we have family in the valleys still, and first "met" him in the 1980s. My wife has memories of pulling out some stitches, she was laughing so much, and still couldn't stop laughing. Some of his more recent stuff is available on DVD, this was 1980s video of dubious ancestry (and quality) but I'd love to know if stuff of this era is still available. Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 26 Mar 10 - 10:18 AM Thanks for the responses, everybody. As for Silas - I am thinking of having a new kind of bumpersticker made. It will have a picture of a computer on it, and it will say "Don't drink and type." Newport Boy, thanks for the explanation about Calon Lan. I thought it was 'a crook in Calon Lan,' but your 'croaking' makes much more sense. Esp. after the fags. (The guitarist in my little band of friends absolutely adores 'Calon Lan.') Naturally I enjoyed his 'Hymns and Aria' because we had just been singing hymns and listening to arias that very day. We had just had the aria 'With Verdure tum-ty the tumty is Something' from Haydn's Creation at our gymanfa. Bonnie, I'm impressed to hear that you played harp for him. The more harpers there are in this world, the better. Now to find 'We had doctor's paper' and 'Down at the bottom of the garden.' Bloke from Poole - I don't know what to do abt your request. Owing to an identity theft a while back, I keep my profile low, low, low. Therefore I remain a Guest and can't PM you. I know very little about the leader and I'm flying out of here today to care for my sister and will be out of touch for quite a while. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 26 Mar 10 - 10:27 AM Wait! Bloke! Send an e-mail to welcome@ welshkc.org and ask them to pass the message on to 'Patricia.' ======== Just listend to Cerys Martin singing 'Calon Lan' as linked above. As my sister would say, "She'll be a good singer once her voice changes." |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST Date: 26 Mar 10 - 10:43 AM Anyone into Rugby Union would of course have known of Max for many years. Rog |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,David Date: 26 Mar 10 - 10:44 AM Max does a great version of' When we walked to Merthyr Tydfil' which was originally a poem by Idris Davies. David |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: katlaughing Date: 26 Mar 10 - 11:29 AM leenia, one of the links I put it was to the Bottom of the Garden one. it was hilarious! Safe journey to you. Hope you can check in once in awhile. We will miss you. kat |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Mar 10 - 11:34 AM I am surprised that no-one has known because they were there yet... :D (eG) |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Myrtle's cook Date: 26 Mar 10 - 12:20 PM Great to see this thread. I rediscovered Max at Christmas when someone gave me a greatest hits CD. It reminded me that he wrote the wonderful Rhondda Grey - one of the most evocative and sincere songs about life in a coal mining community. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: sian, west wales Date: 26 Mar 10 - 12:40 PM He was always 'big' back in the '60s and '70s at the Ontario Welsh Festival. We knew so many of his pieces off by heart. (What was the skit about the aunties at the Eisteddfod ... "like a whole row of goldfish"? Can't look at an Eisteddfod audience now without cracking up!) Apart from the tsunami of his comedic work, I think his "Swansea Town" is a lovely little folk song. sian |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 26 Mar 10 - 01:19 PM Thanks for the further suggestions. Here's a link to a stirring Welsh hymn cwm rhondda Our session was very like that, only the sopranos were better. Cwm (coom = valley) Rhondda is the name of the tune. At gymanfas we call the songs by the name of the tune, not by the lyrics. It is interesting to note that in Wales, as in America, people stoutly sing 'Strong Deliver' while the text insists its 'Strong Deliverer.' Grammar goes out the window in favor of singability. I really should be packing... |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Mick Tems Date: 26 Mar 10 - 01:27 PM Max was a member of the Valley Folk Club at Pontardawe, but had aspired to greater things when first I joined the club. I've still got Max's debut LP Live At The Valley Folk Club (on the Cambrian label) and I shall adore it forever. He turned up once to do a Christmas floor spot; it was about a Christmas fairy, and ended up with the punch-line "And you broke the bloody tree!" I followed Max through the years, through his friendship on Gren Jones, the South Wales Echo cartoonist who drew an oh-so-sunny, gleeful cover for his LP We All Had Doctor's Papers. Ive watched his performances on BBC1 Wales; most of them have been sell-outs, but they haven't attracted the interest of the BBC regions. Now Max has been awarded the honour of a Mudcat thread - Llongyfarchiadau, Bach! |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Mick Tems Date: 26 Mar 10 - 01:31 PM Sorry - funny, not sunny! |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Desert Dancer Date: 26 Mar 10 - 01:42 PM Kat, looks like "At the Bottom of the Garden" didn't get a link: here 'tis. ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: John MacKenzie Date: 26 Mar 10 - 01:48 PM Bah humbug, Silas. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Anne Lister Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:18 PM I'd say that Max was one of the least insincere and smarmy performers I've ever come across (and I've come across quite a few). But luckily Guest Silas is in a minority of one on this thread. I never can understand why people boast about their personal dislikes. Meanwhile my husband has corrected me - it wasn't a walking leek, it was a remote controlled pair of rugby boots to follow Max on stage that he created. I was getting confused with the giant leek Max has been known to carry around. And yes, David El Gnomo - I was there! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: WE ALL HAD DOCTORS' PAPERS (Max Boyce) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:30 PM "We all had doctors papers" Title of an album (LP for those old enough to remember) And a line taken from a poem about the day when Llanelli beat New Zealand. I'll try it from memory. 9-3 It was on a dark & dismal day, In a week that had seen rain. When all roads led to Stradey Park (home of Llanelli) With the All Blacks (New Zealand, so called because of their team strip) here again. They poured down from the valleys, They came from far and wide. There was 20 thousand in the ground, And me & Dai (Welsh for David) outside. The shops were closed, like Sunday, The streets were silent, still. And those that chose to stay away, Were either dead or ill. But those who went to Stradey, will remember 'til they die, How New Zealand were defeated, And how the pubs ran dry. Oh aye, the beer flowed at Stradey, piped down from Felinfoel (local village & brewery) And the hands that held the glasses high Were strong with steel & coal (two main valleys employers at that time) And the air was filled with singing, And I saw a grown man cry, Not because we'd won the game, But because the beer ran dry! Then dawned the morning after, On empty factories, For we were still at Stradey, Bloodshot absentees! But we all had doctors' papers And they all said just the same, That we all had 'scarlet' fever (Llanelli are known as the Scarlets because of their strip), And we'd caught it at the game. And all the little children in Llanelli from now on Will be christened Ray, or Carwyn, Derek, Delme, Phil or John. And in a hundred years again They'll sing this song for me Of when the scoreboard read Llanelli 9, Seland Newydd 3. And when I'm old, and my hair turns grey And they put me in a chair, I'll tell my great-grandchildren That their tad-cu (Welsh Grandad) was there. And they'll ask to hear the story Of that damp October day, When I went down to Stradey And I sawb the scarlets play. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Nigel Parsons Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:33 PM Just finished typing that in & found I'd done it before in one of the threads linked above! Oh Soddit! |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Wotcha Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:47 PM Max's rendition of "Swansea Town" has introduced a favorite at some nautical sings on this side of the pond ... First heard him at school in the UK in the early 70s: Live at Treorchy LP. Rugger gets into your blood! Yacky Da |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Doug Chadwick Date: 27 Mar 10 - 06:29 AM I'd say that Max was one of the least insincere and smarmy performers ........ I liked Max Boyce as a comedian and particularly enjoyed his passion for rugby even though I'm not a follower of the game. What I couldn't stand was when he sang a serious song. He was just too sincere with his head shaking with the intensity of it all and I found it embarrassing to watch him. DC |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Silas Date: 27 Mar 10 - 06:35 AM Embarrassing is the word - with his cheeks dripping with fake tears and the 'emotional' catch in his delivery. Yup. Embarrassing. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,AndyC Date: 27 Mar 10 - 02:21 PM According to Wikipedia, Max's father was killed in an underground pit explosion a month before Max was born, and Max worked in a colliery himself before he became a star, so I'd suggest that his emotion in singing about Welsh mining culture is completely genuine. Max came out of folk clubs to become a more mainstream folk-comedy star, at around the same time as Jasper Carrott, Billy Connolly, Mike Harding and Richard Digance did in different parts of the country. I'd recommend 'Duw It's Hard' to anyone who wants to hear one of Max's more 'poignant' songs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7itxshX1i4o |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Silas Date: 27 Mar 10 - 03:26 PM Really? Well, all you need is sincerity, and if you can fake that,you've got it made. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Jim Dixon Date: 09 Apr 10 - 03:08 PM I found lyrics to these Max Boyce songs already posted in Mudcat threads. There may be more; it's tough to find them right now because he isn't always credited, at least not in the subject line, and the Forum Search doesn't seem to be working right now. SWANSEA TOWN HYMNS AND ARIAS THE BALLAD OF MORGAN THE MOON DUW, IT'S HARD - also here, here, and in the DT). DECK OF CARDS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE GARDEN WE ALL HAD DOCTORS' PAPERS We had a request for TEN THOUSAND INSTANT CHRISTIANS but it was never fulfilled. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Jim Dixon Date: 09 Apr 10 - 03:49 PM I found a couple more: RHONDDA GREY DID YOU UNDERSTAND? |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE SCOTTISH TRIP (Max Boyce) From: Jim Dixon Date: 09 Apr 10 - 03:52 PM And here's one I transcribed myself, from YouTube: THE SCOTTISH TRIP Max Boyce Oh, we went up to the hielands of Scotland, To the land o' the loch and the glen, And we all bring our wives back a present, So we can go next time again. CHORUS: Singin' toora-lye oora-lye addy. We went up by train and by car. When the juice of the barley start flowing, We all saw the game in the bar. Oh, we loaded the bus up with flagons And we left about twenty past seven. We stopped fourteen times between Neath and Bridgend. We were still in Glamorgan at 'leven. On the M5, Will spoke to the driver. He said, "Can ye no stop this bus for a while?" He said, "Man alive, we're on the M5. You'll have to hang on till Carlisle." Old Will, he climbed out on the sun-roof And he stood on the bus in disgrace, But he wasn't to know that that bridge was so low, But he died with a smile on his face. He was splattered all over the pavement, And his leek it was stuffed down his throat, And I heard his friend say as they scraped Will away, "My ticket was inside his coat!" |
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Subject: Lyr Add: TEN THOUSAND INSTANT CHRISTIANS (M Boyce) From: Newport Boy Date: 09 Apr 10 - 05:01 PM Jim - you have only to ask: TEN THOUSAND INSTANT CHRISTIANS Max Boyce When He sees the Hope and Anchor Where we sang before the game Where 'Cwm Rhondda' and 'Delilah' First sounded both the same The bar was filled with singing Hymns came on a tray Saturday was Sunday I wonder what He'll say What will He say? What will He say? I wonder, I wonder what He'll say? When He sees the North Enclosure With it's belly full of ale And sees that male voice flagon Sing to the twisted barrier rail 'Cwm Rhondda' and 'Penmachno' Hymns of yesterday Only half remembered I wonder what He'll say What will He say? What will He say? I wonder, I wonder what He'll say? When He sees that touch-line tenor With his copy made of sand Ten Thousand Instant Christians And the Glynneath Silver Band 'C'mon man, ref, for Christ's sake That ball was still in play' Ten Thousand Instant Christians I wonder what He'll say What will He say? What will He say? I wonder, I wonder what He'll say? When He sees that empty chapel With its locked and shuttered door And sees that dusty Bible Cobweb covered floor The numbers slowly dwindling Much fewer now each day Calfaria now a bingo hall I wonder what He'll say What will He say? What will He say? I wonder, I wonder what He'll say? I wonder. Introduced on 'Live at Treorchy' something like: Anyone who goes to the Rugby internationals in Cardiff, cannot fail to be impressed by the great hymn singing Welsh crowd. But I'm not so sure if they'd be impressed if they just went round the corner from the Arms Park and they saw the little chapel there with the windows smashed and the doors locked and shuttered and a sign that says 'For Sale'. When I saw this one Sunday morning after an International, I wrote this song entitled, Ten Thousand Instant Christians. Phil |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: MARINER Date: 09 Apr 10 - 05:35 PM I have always enjoyed Max and have wondered about how he seemed to have faded off the scene.Something at the back of my mind says it was around the time of the miner's strike that he began to fade from view.I'm not sure if this was coincidental or if it was because of some imagined slight to the miners at the time.Then maybe it's just my ol' brain getting things mixed up. Anyone know if I am imagining this or not ? |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: skipy Date: 09 Apr 10 - 08:42 PM "I can tell you that he's one of the nicest, most genuine, warm-hearted fellas I've ever come across. This was at the height of his fame, yet there wasn't a trace of look-at-me-I'm-a-star about him, though he was one." Not as I recall! I had to TELL HIM to leave the folk club at RAF BZN back in the late 70s because he was being very loud & very rude about other singers and musicians in the club after he had compared a concert in the Naafi, the bands in question where the winners of folk club competions from military camps around the world, so the standard was pretty high! The winners where "Eynsbury Giant" they got a recording contract out of it. Skipy |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 09 Apr 10 - 09:05 PM Well, we all have the memories we have. That was how I found him on the occasions I saw him (assorted recording sessions mostly). Maybe it was being in a more one-on-one atmosphere with no audience? The late and sadly missed Neil Lewis played in those too, but there weren't many other people around. Have to admit I'm surprised to hear it. A friend of mine did a show/panto with him a few years ago where she saw a lot of him backstage and has similar impressions to mine. By then, though, he was no longer such a star. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE DEVIL'S MARKING ME (Max Boyce) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 11 Jan 13 - 07:56 AM This has been mentioned a couple of times in passing (Jon Freeman and others) _____________________________________________________________ THE DEVIL'S MARKING ME Max Boyce I had a dream the other night, The strangest dream of all. I dreamt I was in Heaven, Away from life's hard call. It was as I'd imagined – Where peace ruled all serene. The signs to Heaven were all in Welsh: Hell's signs were painted green! Painted green, painted green. The signs to heaven were all in Welsh: Hell's signs were painted green. I entered through the heavenly gate, I heard the heavenly band. And there was John the Baptist On Barry John's right hand! He plays for the Heaven Welsh XV – They're very fit and keen. We'd play the Heaven English If they could only raise a team! Raise a team, raise a team. We'd play the Heaven English If they could only raise a team There was Rugby every morning On a field of golden corn. And the referee was Gabriel And he blew on a silver horn. They tell me we play Hell next week In the annual charity. I wouldn't mind but I've been told The devil's marking me! Marking me, marking me. I wouldn't mind but I've been told The devil's marking me. But now my dream has faded And I wake up to the morn. I find beneath my pillow A sheaf of golden corn. So I know that when I go there, Beyond death's victory, I'll take my Rugby jersey On that Gospel train with me. Train with me, train with me. I'll take my Rugby jersey On that Gospel train with me. Train with me, train with me. I'll take my Rugby jersey On that Gospel train with me. Copied from "Max Boyce: his Songs & Poems" Published by Panther Books(1976) 586 04621 6 NP |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 11 Jan 13 - 10:16 AM He was all over the tv in the '60s & '70s when Welsh rugby was at its best (JPR, JJ,the Pontypool front row etc)and then seemed to fade away, though probably making a good living in Wales performing at rugby clubs. perhaps if Welsh rugby improves he'll be back in the media? RtS (Who spent 3 years in Cardiff and one in Aberystwyth being mocked for supporting England when they were always being thrashed by the Welsh) |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 11 Jan 13 - 10:24 AM He wasn't on tv in the '60s, although that was when I was in Wales, but he was very big in the 70s, his appearances on tv always seemed to coincide with a rugby international on a Saturday. RtS |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 11 Jan 13 - 10:25 AM Thanks, Nigel and Roger. Roger, good for you, because you were not merely a fair-weather fan. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: GUEST,Big AL wHITTLE Date: 12 Jan 13 - 10:09 AM Perhaps it Welsh people generally Silas doesn't like. Our generation had it tough when it came to Welsh and Scottish people. Down to TV really. The Scottish had The White Heather Club. Jimmy Shand and his Band, Kenneth McKellar, Moira Anderson, Donald Where's Y' Troosers. Dr Finlay's Casebook......the hits just kept on coming. But at least it was in English The Welsh were quite unendurable. It was called Land of Song. Pretty girls in floaty summer dresses sing Welsh songs and dancing cheerily round a studio set of a village green. Then the girls gathered round and looked lovingly at a Welsh tenor sitting on hay bale - they leaned against a studio set of a five bar gate. Then everydy looked serious and they would sing a dirgey hymn. Then Ivor Emmanuel holding a rugby would sing a 'jolly Welsh song' to all his mates in check shirts. Oh how they laughed at his shafts of wit. Somehow you felt Max (when he appeared) was part of the whole Bible black conspiracy. Somehow he fitted in with that shiny happy people milieu. |
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Subject: RE: I discover Max Boyce From: Silas Date: 12 Jan 13 - 10:34 AM "Perhaps it Welsh people generally Silas doesn't like." You could well be right there. Never met a welshman I would trust. |
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