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Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester

Artful Codger 25 Mar 10 - 11:52 PM
Steve Gardham 26 Mar 10 - 03:56 PM
Artful Codger 26 Mar 10 - 05:11 PM
Artful Codger 26 Mar 10 - 06:11 PM
Steve Gardham 27 Mar 10 - 05:04 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 27 Mar 10 - 07:20 PM
Steve Gardham 28 Mar 10 - 04:22 PM
Artful Codger 28 Mar 10 - 04:54 PM
Steve Gardham 28 Mar 10 - 05:42 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 29 Mar 10 - 08:37 AM
Artful Codger 29 Mar 10 - 06:25 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Artful Codger
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 11:52 PM

As Martin Carthy noted in the liner notes to Shearwater, he used the tune from Hedy West's rendition of "The Maid of Colchester" for his version of "Famous Flower[s] of Serving Man"; see threads 52040 (Tune Req: famous flower of serving men) and (84751 (What was that Martin Carthy tune?) But nothing more has been mentioned on Mudcat about West's "The Maid of Colchester".

At the Bodley Ballads site I found a broadside "Crafty Kate of Colchester; or the False-Hearted Clothier Frightened into Good Manners." The scan is unreadable, but fortunately it is also printed in William Chappell's The Roxburghe Ballads, Volume 8, p. 430. It seems to scan fairly well with the tune, and I'm wondering if this might be the basis of West's song.

If someone is familiar with "The Maid of Colchester", would you please compare it with "Crafty Kate" and comment, or better still, post the lyrics (copyrights permitting)?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 03:56 PM

Crafty Kate is your best bet. I have no 'Maid of Colchester' in any of my indexes, including the alternate titles for CKoC. Apart from broadside references I have no British oral versions but plenty of American ones. Those with tunes are in;
Gardner and Chickering, B&S of Michigan
Trad Songs of Nova Scotia
Folk Songs of the Catskills
B&S of Utah
and of course Sharp's Southern Appalachian volumes.

The story is reused in 'Poor Nell'
The early broadsides seem to be related to an even earlier ballad 'The Politick Maid of Suffolk'


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Artful Codger
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 05:11 PM

Chappell pointed out the resemblance to "The Politick Maid of Suffolk; or, The Lawyer Outwitted" (to the tune of "Alan! poor thing"), both describing the plot line and quoting several verses. From his coments, however, it is unclear which came first, though "The Politick Maid" was printed as early as 1818, and "Crafty Kate" seems to have eliminated much of the dross from the story, with Kate performing her trick unassisted.

Chappell also cites the tune to "Crafty Kate" as "The Jealous Lover; or, The Languishing Swain", with references to other pages in the same volume.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Artful Codger
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 06:11 PM

The Chappell reference to "The Jealous Lover" is fleshed out on p. 411, and leads to the Bagford Ballads (Vol. 1), p. 54, which in turn says,
The tune [for "Mrs. Cooke's Lament"] is "Forgive me if your looks I thought;" of which the music (by Robert King) with the words are given in Playford's Banquet of Music, 1688, ii. p. 1; and the words alone in Tixall Poetry, 240:

THE JEALOUS LOVER.

FORGIVE me, if your looks I thought
   Did once some change discover;
To be too jealous is the fault
   Of every tender Lover. [...]
Oddly, this meter (8.6) does not fit that of "Crafty Kate" (8.8).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 05:04 PM

Have you tried Googling Hedy West's recordings?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:20 PM

According to Simpson, in the notes for He That Loves Best Must Suffer Most: In two ballads "The Jealous Lover" is coupled with "The Languishing Swain" in the tune direction: they are "The Leicester-shire Tragedy" (OPB, p28) and "Crafty Kate of Colchester" (Lord Crawford 1432, late seventeenth-century exemplar; a reprint of an eighteenth-century Newcastle issue with tune direction "The Languishing Lover" is in RB VII, 430).

So Crafty Kate seems to have existed late 17C.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:22 PM

The 2 versions I have access to are Roxburghe and the Robinson Library both of which are mid 18thc White of Newcastle. However Ebsworth (ROX 8. 430) states that the Jersey copy with colophon cut off is c1689-90.

Ebsworth gives 'The Politick Maid of Suffolk or the Lawyer Outwitted' and details on several printings but none earlier than the 18thc so I'd say Kate came first.

What may be significant is 'The Politic Maid' survives in oral tradition. There are 3 versions in Greig Duncan and 3 in the Sharp Mss mostly under the title 'Poor Nell'.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Artful Codger
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:54 PM

Out of curiosity, is there any resemblance in tune between these "Politick Maid/Poor Nell" versions and Carthy's "Famous Flowers" (and therefore with West's "Maid of Colchester")?

Herga Kitty posted one of the Sharp versions, "Poor Nell and the Chimney Sweep" (08 Jan 02) in this thread: 42670: Songs About Lawyers or the Law.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:42 PM

Haven't got access to 'Shearwater' or Hedy West recordings so I don't know what this tune is like.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 08:37 AM

I had a quick look at two of the versions in Sharp ed Karpeles last night and compared them with the 2nd tune on Mudcat, which Malcolm said was a simplified version of Martin's tune. At a quick glance they didn't look that similar. When I've a bit of time I'll try and post some of the tunes for comparison.

I tried to find something about the Maid of Colchester, but it wasn't listed in the discographies of Hedy West that I could find online (though even the largest one I found may not be complete). In fact, apart from references to it being the tune used for FFOSM I couldn't find anything under that title!

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Colchester
From: Artful Codger
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 06:25 PM

Here you go, Steve:

Martin Carthy performing "Famous Flower of Serving Men": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2K7HcYld5s


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