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Lyr Req: Welsh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod

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GUEST,Andrew F 28 Mar 10 - 09:45 AM
Dave MacKenzie 28 Mar 10 - 10:26 AM
sian, west wales 28 Mar 10 - 12:33 PM
Mr Happy 28 Mar 10 - 12:41 PM
sian, west wales 29 Mar 10 - 05:23 AM
GUEST,Andrew 29 Mar 10 - 05:36 AM
sian, west wales 29 Mar 10 - 10:25 AM
GUEST,Andrew 30 Mar 10 - 03:19 AM
sian, west wales 30 Mar 10 - 05:01 AM
Newport Boy 30 Mar 10 - 06:04 AM
Melissa 30 Mar 10 - 06:07 AM
sian, west wales 30 Mar 10 - 06:57 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 Mar 10 - 07:04 AM
Newport Boy 30 Mar 10 - 10:21 AM
Melissa 30 Mar 10 - 10:29 AM
Mr Red 31 Mar 10 - 08:05 AM
Mr Red 31 Mar 10 - 08:14 AM
GUEST,Andrew 31 Mar 10 - 11:40 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: GUEST,Andrew F
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:45 AM

Brandywine Bluegrass & Appalachian dancers are to play at Ebbw Vale Eisteddfod. We would like to sing a version of "Long Journey Home". With help of internet translator I made attempt at translation to minimise words. Is it any good or can you improve it?
Thanks, Andrew

Cloudy in the East & it looks like rain,
Looks like rain boys, looks like rain
Cloudy in the east & it looks like rain
I'm on my long journey home.

CYMYLAU YN Y DWYRAIN, YFFORDDI FLAEN
Yforddi faen bach, yforddi flaen
Cymylau yn y dwyrain, yfforddi flaen
AR FY TAITHIO HIR CARTREF (Gartref or hendref?)

CHORUS
Lost all my money but a two dollar bill (repeat)
I'm on my long journey home
NAC DIM ARIAN OND DAU DOLLAR BILL
AR-FY TEITHIO HIR CARTREF

White/Black smoke rising, surely is a train etc
MWG GWYN YN CODI,   DOES YW Y TREN

Homesick and lonesome, feeling kind of blue
HIRAETH,YN UNIG,TEIMLO'N GLAS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh for Bluegrass song at Eistedfod
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 10:26 AM

I'll leave a detailed analysis to a Cymro, but shouldn't home in this case be transalted by "adre"?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: sian, west wales
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:33 PM

Oh. Please. Don't use that. I can't even guess at what "yforddi flaen" is supposed to mean. And, generally, there is next to nothing like 'real' Welsh there.

If I knew the tune, I'd have a stab at it ...

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: Mr Happy
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:41 PM

transalted??


No thanks!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: sian, west wales
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:23 AM

OK - without the tune, but I've given it a go. The problem is that it is vernacular poetry and needs something other than direct translation. There's one bit that I can't do properly ... although I could ask around. I've put in a 'filler' for now. I've also tried to call on the 'commonalities' you get in Welsh folk song for some phrases - thought they sounded more natural.

Cloudy in the East & it looks like rain,
Looks like rain boys, looks like rain
Cloudy in the east & it looks like rain
I'm on my long journey home.

Cymylau ar y gorwel, mae'n bygwth glaw
Bygwth glaw, bois, bygwth glaw.
Mae siwrnai hir o'm mlaen.

(Literally, clouds on the horizon and it threatens rain, threatens rain, threatens rain. I've a long journey ahead of me.)

Lost all my money but a two dollar bill (repeat)

Wedi bradu fy mhres i gyd ond un papur punt
Un papur punt, bois, un papur punt

(this is the one I had trouble with because of the American saying "As phony as a two dollar bill" so there's an added texture in the English. I don't know what the British equivalent would be. Anyway, I've put, "Wasted all my 'brass' but for a one pound note". It probably should have something to do with shillings, etc.)

White smoke rising:
Mwg gwyn yn codi, oes sôn am trên?
Sôn am trên, bois, Sôn am trên.

(Lit: white smoke rising, any hint of a train?)

Black smoke rising:
Mwg du yn codi, oes sôn am trên …

(as above)

Homesick and lonesome, feeling kind of blue:
Hiraeth yn fy nghalon, dan felan ddu,
Melan ddu, melan ddu…

(Lit: hiraeth in my heart, 'under' a black melancholy. "Y felan ddu" is the Welsh phrase for 'the blues'.)

Hope that's some help. You must call in at Ty Gwerin when you're at the Eisteddfod and have a cuppa!

siân


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:36 AM

You can hear the song Sian at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LCLZrk_dMg There are others singing Long Journey home too.

I am pleased with the reaction! Are internet translation engines so useless?

I dont need a direct translation, just something that will imply the sentiment "Lost all my money but a 2 dollar bill, I'm on my long journey home." And fit the tune in 16 bars. Because it is fast there cant be many words. I will give full acknowledgement to anyone who can help. Thanks
Andrew

PS I think Rain Ahead came out as yfforddi flaen.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: sian, west wales
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 10:25 AM

OK - I've given her a listen and I can make the words fit, no probs. If anything, I could have given myself a few more syllables in places, but if you're not a Welsh speaker ... the fewer the better?

Don't know what translator you used but ... it ain't great.

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 03:19 AM

Thanks Sian
I found a much better translator http://www.e-freetranslation.com/ .
I can not speak Welsh, but know how to pronounce it and can get by singing Welsh OK! Here's my email af-aditel@btinternet.com Thanks a lot for your offer.
Andrew


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: sian, west wales
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 05:01 AM

Andrew, maybe I'm being too subtle.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT USE ONLINE TRANSLATORS.

I've tried the one above, and it produces complete gobbledigook.

Music is poetry and poetry is, as the saying goes, what gets lost in translation. You have to have a flesh-and-blood person translate songs. It's fine if you don't me from Adam (or Eve) and don't want to use the translation I've suggested but, I reiterate ...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT USE ONLINE TRANSLATORS.

You can get hold of me via trac (www.trac-cymru.org) using the mobile number. Text me and I will ring you back if you like.

I really want you to put your best clog forward at the Eisteddfod and will help in any way.

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: Newport Boy
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 06:04 AM

Andrew - I think you should listen to Sian. I tried the e-freetranslation site with a simple Welsh verse:

Mae genni ebol melyn
Yn codi pedair troed
A phedair pedol arian o
Dan es pedwar troed.


In English:

He is being you whiten colt yellow Raising four one turned I go assassinate horseshoe silver he We are being I went four one turned.

Not impressive!

Phil


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: Melissa
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 06:07 AM

Sian:
Two dollar bills are ok in the US..it's the Three dollar bills you have to watch out for.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: sian, west wales
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 06:57 AM

Ah - I thought it was the $2 that you didn't have. Have you always had $2s? I thought it went $1, $5, $10 ...

Phil - that is SOOOOOO funny!

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 07:04 AM

newport Boy:
It took us sometime to translate that verse (and get it singable!)
See Can y Melinydd

Cheers
Nigel


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: Newport Boy
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 10:21 AM

If I had attempted to translate it, the result would probably be worse than the internet version. My understanding of Welsh is limited. I just copied the text from another thread as an example - it proved a good one!

Phil


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: Melissa
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 10:29 AM

Sian,
They reintroduced $2 bills for our bicentennial (1976) and they still pop up occasionally..not often, but they're around.

$1, $5, $10 and such are our normal bills.

The saying (as I've always heard it) is "queer as a three dollar bill"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 08:05 AM

I am pleased with the reaction! Are internet translation engines so useless?
very much so.

I did a lot of languages on my FAQ pages cresby.com and Most do not handle grammar well, and idiomatic English /other is way beyond their capability. One recurring problem is the month of May, it usually ends up as "can". And in Danish "jam session" is a "jam session" not the Danish for marmalade session!

But as a starter it is better than not trying and then asking someone to help. I ask people as they present themselves and they usually have a good laugh, but come good eventually.

Welsh is particularly different grammatically - I am told.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 08:14 AM

As Newport Boy hints. Try translating back from the target language and you will see how close it gets.   A robust translation would be a lot closer when going forward and back.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wesh for a Bluegrass song at Eisteddfod
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 11:40 AM

Sian has done a wonderful job for me which we will be practicing tonite. I am very pleased I had a try at it, and failed. Hmm I think I will try out Can y Melinydd. I dont know the tune but it easily fits the style of tunes we do. Maybe see you at Tredegar House Phil.
Andrew


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