Origins: The Fourteenth of July

Subject: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 07:01 PM

A long term favourite song, that I often perform with the Bounty Hounds. Obviously about a naval battle or skirmish, but I can find no more information about it other than what is here in the database under the alternative title of The Little Fighting Chance. @displaysong.cfm?SongID=6612

Anyone got any ideas of its origins please, I would love to know where/when this encounter took place.

I learned it from an excellent version by the late Tony Rose

John

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: open mike
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 07:39 PM

hmmm...well, July 14th is Bastille Day...if this is french, that
could be the connection. (this i know because it is also my birthday)

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 07:53 PM

Billy the Kid got killed on July 14th. "The Little Fighting Chance" might fit him.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 07:14 PM

Thanks chaps, but probably not the most helpful suggestions

According to the database here, the song appears in 'Songs of the Peasantry of the Weald of Surrey and Sussex' (1843) so I don't think there would be a Billy the Kid connection, Bastille Day and French revolution might be a possibility, but the song appears to be about an encounter between a single British ship and a single French one.

any more offers? Answers on a postcard to...........

John

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 07:34 PM

I think John Moulden sings an Irish version (i.e. localised references) of this one. He may know of its background.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 09:51 AM

Bounty Hound sent me a message via facebook to which I am now posting a response. The song I sing is called The Amazon and it's not the one you're looking for. For some idea of the range of texts of this song look at the Musical Traditions website - go to the Dungbeetle contributions and look for a set of observations on "The Spanish Snow" - there are also some versions on the Bodleian Ballads website.

Also, for the Little Fighting Chance or the Fourteenth of July, (Laws J19) if you go to the website of the EFDSS the Roud index (no 980) contains versions other than the one from Broadwood - Greig-Duncan vol 1 p 91 and MacKenzie Ballads and Sea Songs from Nova Scotia p 215. It also shows an article which cites the song from Broadwood - Journal of the British Archaeological Association. 42 (1886) 310-312 - there might be some background - I may be able to source the article if you have difficulty. I have access to all the versions mentioned and none of them has any accompanying note that might help.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: MartinRyan
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 11:05 AM

Thanks for that, John. At least my comment found the right man - even if via the wrong song!

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 02:47 PM

I have waited for some days for the original inquirer to thank Martin and me for sharing our knowledge and, in my case, preparedness to do actual research on behalf of another person, unknown to either of us. It sticks in my throat that the person concerned appears to have so little interest in our answers that there has been no word of thanks or even of recognition of our efforts.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 03:40 PM

I hate when that happens.

The 14th of July is two days after the invasion of Ireland by William of Orange. Maybe the Irish finally realized that he was there? (Just joshing)

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 03:49 PM

GUEST,John Moulden - Looking at the question asker's posting history, he has only made two more posts since his second one on this thread asking the question. One on the same day and another two days later. Perhaps he has been too busy to get back to Mudcat?
Whatever the reason, it isn't worth getting upset about, have fun with the rest of the 'cat.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Fourteenth of July
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 07:26 PM

GUEST,John Moulden, Profuse apologies if 6 days is too long a time to respond to your post, which I have only seen this evening, Geoff the Duck has hit the nail on the head, since my second post on this thread, I have had two gigs, a rehursal, and had a day in the studio with my band 'The Bounty Hounds' and other small matters like work and family get in the way.

Your knowledge and expertise are much appreciated, and I am just in the process of downloading the Journal of the British Archaeological Association to investigate further although the Greig-Duncan vol 1 p 91 looks potentially the most promising, with mentions of a French Ship, 'the Allechance' more digging to do there!

Once again, thank you for your efforts, and to Martin Ryan for the recommendation. Also to Geoff the Duck for springing to my defence.

John