29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)

Subject: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: olddude
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 08:17 PM

in my thoughts and prayers

mine explosion

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 08:42 PM

Massey strikes again. I feel for the families. There is no end to the ways that coal can kill..........

I'm not going to say any more in the face of yet another grim day in the ugly history of "King Coal."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: Lox
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 11:06 PM

King Coal

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: Janie
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 11:08 PM

No words come....

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 12:13 AM

Now 12 dead and 10 missing...............


Spaw

Subject: BS: Montcoal, West Virginia - Mine Explosion
From: Goose Gander
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 01:08 AM

12 dead, 10 missing in Montcoal, West Virginia.

"(A)ccording to federal records, the Upper Big Branch Mine has had three fatalities since 1998 and has a worse than average injury rate over the last 10 years. Two of the miners died in roof collapses in 1998 and 2001, while a third was electrocuted in 2003 when repairing an underground car."

transferred from duplicate thread
mod

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 01:40 AM

And 115 safe after eight days in Russian cave-in. Sometimes the Universe seems so random. Blessings on all who are suffering.

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 04:24 AM

Before my grandfather's generation, all my male relatives (and some female) and ancestors on the male side of my family were miners in the south-east Lancashire coalfields. My g-g-g-grandfather and all his brothers started pulling coal carts - "corves" - in the mines at the age of 10. If they survived, they became coal hewers. Using children of that age in mines became illegal in 1849 in the UK. My great-great-aunt Fanny Hurst lost her husband and the eldest sons in the 1910 pit disaster (explosion) at the Pretoria Pit, near Westhoughton. This was one of the worst mining disasters in Britain.

So mining is a hard, dirty and destructive industry with one winner - the pit owners. My thoughts to those in this latest tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 05:30 AM

We should remember.

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 06:18 AM

No matter how you get it, coal kills.

People and counties.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: olddude
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 07:46 AM

now 25 dead

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 08:00 AM

Here I was giving thanks for the 115 pulled from a pit in China.
Is it now that coal mining is a dangerous occupation or are owners still cutting corners to make a few more dollars?

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: olddude
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 08:41 AM

Sins
I believe it is a bit of both. And that mine has been fined for safety violations more times I believe than the drug companies have pills ...

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: olddude
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 11:11 AM

doesn't look good for the 4 still missing, the gas is so poisonous the rescue workers cannot continue for 24 hours

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 11:39 AM

Getting coal out of the ground has always been a dangerous way to earn a living in this country. I know other countries do it better and some do it worse but my concern is for this country. I was ranting away to Karen this AM and stopped abruptly saying, "I don't know why coal winds me up so much and so quickly." She said that for me it was about "home" and also the time I spent in college in Kentucky and the AV's.......I knew that but even so, this one gets me faster than anything else.

I guess it is because we knew years ago how dangerous this was and we knew that coal killed all along the line. It kills the land, it kills the people, and it is without a single positive......except that the people who live on that land have had nowhere else to work and/or gave up their mineral rights to that land they thought they owned. It is the dichotomy of coal energy.

All along the usage line of coal, we make trade-offs. Meigs County, Ohio has 4 coal fired plants and the energy companies want to build 3 more. Those plants brought revenue to the county while the citizens of Meigs County are dying from coal related cancers at alarming rates. A few months back, a citizen action group stopped construction of one of the proposed plants. Last year 26 proposed plants were stopped!

We're blowing the hell out of mountains and strip mining still goes on. A great piece of legislation promises to slow them down or stop them altogether but only the naive and young would believe that strip mining is over.

Legislation passed in 2006 should have made this latest accident less probable and more survivable but men are dead. But there other ways to die of course.....Black Lung has certainly not been eradicated. But the miners may well have nowhere else to work.

How long are we going to pay this price? When we were fighting for more money and better working conditions we should have been fighting for more research into alternatives and new types of jobs for the people.

The politics of coal simply add the final touch to this dirty business as the folks vote for lower taxes and more assistance at the expense of expanding the power of the energy companies. Can you blame them though?

This scenario and the dichotomy of coal has been playing so long in the Appalachians and its foothills that it seems the norm..........and it is.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: mouldy
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 01:53 PM

My heart is right there with the families.
I don't really need to add any more...Deja Vu...

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: gnu
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 03:17 PM

So sad all of it. Even a coal ship grounding off Oz (speculating they were trying to save fuel) and spilling oil.

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 06:21 PM

Sad and stupid since we've known for so long that it kills, as Spaw noted. How many hours of light, heat, and hot water, etc. does one dead miner count for? It creeps me out to know the energy we use is at the cost of any lives an I grew up in a house which had one of only two largest in the valley coal furnaces, hopper and all...coal dust everywhere...mom hated it just for the cleaning.

Out here there is no reason for us all not to go solar except cost. I hope this changes and soon.

Sorrow and thoughts shared with all involved,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in w va mine explosion
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 07:29 PM

"It's a fact of life that in a mining town
The roof gives way and the mine shuts down
But they need our work, and we need their pay
In Appalachia it's the only way"

"Ghost of Appalachia" - JT Oglesby

RIP

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: olddude
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 07:49 PM

"I work the mine for number 9,
decades come and decades go
and still our children die"

Owens Appalchia   - me


and it is still true sadly

Subject: RE: BS: 6 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 08:15 PM

Man, first of all, my heart goes out to all the families and friends of the miners...

Second of all, there ain't nuthin' "clean" about coal... Not from mining to burning... But in community after community in West Virginia it's all these folks have...

In the words of Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"...

What, 500 violations in the last year alone???

B~

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 05:35 AM

The number of violations is astounding. With reference to the Pretoria Pit disaster mentioned by Will, above - While Hulton, the owner, was cleared it was well known that he was a penny-pinching miser who would not spend enough on simple safety measures such as safelty lamps. Oddly enough he was the direct descendant of the the William Hulton that ordered the Peterloo masacre 90 years earlier and has a 12 year old boy hanged for sabotaging his Mill equipment. Not much changes.

Sympathies to the families.

Close the coalhouse door, lad. There's blood inside...

DeG

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 10:09 AM

Prison time for the executives who let this happen (again) might help. And I don't mean federal prison.

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:04 PM

It seems the CEO of Massey Energy is quite well-known in some circles. Rachael Maddow had videos of him knocking cameras down when news media tried to take his pictu

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:59 PM

Daryll Scott has a wonderfully poignant song called "You'll never leave Harlan alive" check it out when you can...

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 02:14 PM

RE: Bill's link to the Blankenship piece. All of the videos are just perfect to show up what he is like and frankly he's not so different from others in the game. It is also a fine series that shows how much coal is in bed with other business es and the the government. Its no wonder they are so hard to fight. Thanks for the great link Bill!

Reminds me as well of a guy in the AV's back in the 60's who developed a chart of "interlocking directorates" of the coal and steel industries. The chart took up an entire wall and many of th same assholes sat on the boards of several different stell, coal, electric power, etc. I remember one person was on at least 7 DIFFERENT BOARDS including Bethlehem Steel, Westmoreland coal, and Ohio Power. Anyone see a problem here?

One thing for certain.....There are 25 men dead so far and someone is at fault.


Spaw

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosi
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 05:47 PM

Don Blankenship is the perfect personification of dirty coal.

Clean coal is Orwellian.

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: open mike
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 06:48 PM

oh no....sing a song for the miners..

pick one from the DT....or from here
http://supersearch.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=118794&messages=109

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: Goose Gander
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 12:31 PM

Here's an update but it's not good news.

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 11:59 AM

The New York Times has a lengthy interesting/scary article about Massey's crappy corporate culture in relation to safety, compared to TECO in Kentucky:
2 Mines Show How Safety Practices Vary Widely in U.S..

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: At least 25 dead in West Virginia mine explosion
From: GUEST,Janie
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 04:54 PM

Thanks for posting the link, Becky.

I'm so angry I can't think.

Janie

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2
From: Janie
Date: 16 May 10 - 08:18 PM

A comment Russ made on the "Appalachian Blues" thread above the line, (to paraphrase -at least "appalachian" is apparently no longer a purjurative term), reminded me of a rather visceral reaction I had to the news coverage of the Upper Branch Mine disaster on NPR (where I get nearly all of my news.)

The reporters sounded somewhat condescending to me (though very kind,) when talking about the miners themselves, reporting on the families and the reactions of the community and the people of the State, etc. - as if they were talking about a somewhat archaic, simple people and culture, somehow substantially different from many other rural places in America.

It was subtle. Maybe it wasn't there at all. I may be hypersensitive and prone to perceive slights where there are none when it comes to being a West Virginian. Maybe I projected that "tone" into the reporting based on my experience of enduring past stereotypes that no longer hold.

What was your take?

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2
From: Janie
Date: 16 May 10 - 08:24 PM

ummmm -make that "perjorative"

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: Bill D
Date: 16 May 10 - 08:50 PM

Hmmm, Janie... I didn't specifically see/hear that, but I'd not be surprised. I do know that various areas get 'stereotyped' as to behavior, culture...etc. The 'South', Maine, California, Texas-- as do stories about various ethnic groups.
I think it's partly because some places, including Appalachia in general and W. Virginia in particular, are somewhat self-conciously defensive about their image. Almost all stereotypes have some real basis...which is often awkwardly exaggerated by the media as they try to flesh out a 'story'. It ain't fair, but it happens.

Whether or not W.Va, is "...substantially different from many other rural places in America", it IS different. People can't live in those areas, doing what it takes to survive and cope and not be different. They cultivate that difference to some extent. Add to that all the movies, 'country' songs and lack of interest by outsiders except when there is some disaster or scandal, and it's no wonder that 2nd string reporters sent off to cover the events end up 'flavoring' the interviews and sound bytes in certain ways.

By and large, I thought they did 'reasonably' well conveying the magnitude of the event and the profound sense of loss and frustration those folks feel as history repeats all to often. Then....perhaps *I* am just not sensitive enough to it all, having never lived there.

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 16 May 10 - 09:14 PM

Janie,

I agree.

Bill,

It is none of my damned business, but

What area are you from and what ethnic group do you belong to that is subject to stereotyping? What image are you somewhat self-consciously defensive about?

How about giving us the version of the Appalachian stereotype that you hold dear and then telling us precisely what parts of it have some real basis?

As an Appalachian person I am curious to know how I am being stereotyped today.

Where is Spaw when we need him?

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2
From: Janie
Date: 16 May 10 - 09:58 PM

What area are you from and what ethnic group do you belong to that is subject to stereotyping? What image are you somewhat self-consciously defensive about?

Exactly, Russ. I am wondering to what extent, if any, the experience of being subjected to a generally negative stereotype colors my perceptions.

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2
From: Janie
Date: 16 May 10 - 10:45 PM

Thanks Bill. Most people are somewhat self-conscious about negative images .

I don't think the negative stereotype of West Virginia and West Virginians is as powerful as it once was. I am concerned about that negative stereotype heating up again in service to the ensuing battle over coal - on two fronts - the environmental destructiveness of mountaintop removal, and carbon emissions. both sides of these related issues regarding coal could find it beneficial to feed different aspects of that stereotype. One side is likely to focus on the absurd romantic notion of those poor West Virginians as victims of out-of-state
robber barons, so stupid and ignorant that they don't see how they are being used. The other side is representing itself as the on-going, and only possible economic saviour, (well, life boat for the few for which there is room, anyway).

As you say, stereotypes always have a toe in reality, while serving to obscure reality.

However, what I am really on about is trying to judge the accuracy of my own roadmap of reality.

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: Bill D
Date: 16 May 10 - 11:13 PM

Well...this is why, after offering my perceptions, as requested, I ended by admitting that I can't be a totally objective NOR can I understand AS a resident.
I am a bland WASP-type, mostly from Kansas, who has only 60 years of travel and thinking & reading & meeting people and 14 years of discussing 'stuff' on Mudcat to guide me.
That means that a question back at me, phrased "How about giving us the version of the Appalachian stereotype that you hold dear ..." is just a bit hard to answer. I don't hold ANY of them "dear"... (and I haven't started 'beating my wife').I merely recognize that there are stereotypes- of, as I noted, many areas and groups. One of my aims in life has been to combat and overcome the worst aspects of stereotypes. How does one do that? Well, the 1st step is to recognize that there ARE such. (Basic philosophy...can't really know 'goodness' without badness for comparison.)

... I see I am hesitating to refer to specific stereotypes, lest I be pegged as holding them. I do not do these discussions well in this medium, when I must try to include parenthetical qualifications and disclaimers in anticipation of 'touching a nerve', as I seem to have done just trying to make a reasoned reply. [Janie 'sorta' knows me, and I think knows that I DO try to be honest and clear. When I fail, it is useful to sit and trade clarifying remarks as we go....]

   It seemed so simple to just offer one quick viewpoint as to whether *I* saw the same "slights" and "tone" that Janie 'thought' she saw embedded in news stories. I said I didn't, but would not be surprised if those stories WERE slanted a bit, due to...all those reasons I mentioned.

Now, I play autoharp...and I play some Carter Family stuff, and have LPs of Gid Tanner and Ken & Nehriah Benfield and various folks from the South and of a number of musicians from Appalachia ...including W. Va. You can't hear and sing these songs without absorbing some of the feelings and values and culture and religion inherent in it. Are those 'stereotypes' or just 'reflections'?

Finally, was the only safe answer to Janie's question, "Yep...shore was slanted coverage, alright!"? Hmmmm? If I understood the point, she was ASKING because she wasn't sure.

(Janie...we are collecting quite a list of topics to hash out when we ain't singin' and eatin' and fightin' sleep, hmmm? *wry grin*)

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: Bill D
Date: 16 May 10 - 11:17 PM

Cross-posted,I see....(and one of my favorite autoharp songs is "Black Waters"... it could easily be about W. Va as well as Jean R's Kentucky.)

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2
From: Janie
Date: 17 May 10 - 01:04 AM

Bill,

I found your response to my query very cogent and thoughtful. I trust and value your careful and objective thinking processes . (Don't go gettin' a swelled head, now - may just be a reflection on who I choose to associate with in 3-D;^)

Being on the receiving end of a stereotype leads to often exquisitely sensitive radar.    That exquisitely sensitive radar is capable of discerning subtle , often unconscious projections of others based on their internalized acceptance of the stereotype. However, that ultra-sensitive radar also picks up a lot of false signals, due to its very sensitivity. I'm just trying to sort that out.

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2
From: Janie
Date: 17 May 10 - 01:11 AM

May be to much thread drift away from the original topic. Do not want to detract from the reality and discussion of the explosion and the terrible loss of lives.

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 02:26 PM

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 03:06 PM

Very bad news, gnu..... I'm not sure why you added it to this thread, but I share your anger.

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: open mike
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 03:10 PM

why not start a new thread?
this has no connection to west virginia??

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 03:53 PM

It has a connection with mining in gereal and we have had several threads... didn't want to strt another one. Joe might get pissed. >;-)

I searched... even asked Spaw by PM about a thread I thought he started. Couldn't find one better.

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 03:24 PM

Labor Dept. Asks Court To Close Massey Mine In Ky. (NPR)

The Labor Department took an unprecedented step against a Kentucky coal mine Wednesday, asking that a federal judge shut it down immediately to protect the lives of those who work there.

In filing for a preliminary injunction in U.S. District Court, the government cites persistently dangerous conditions in Massey Energy's Freedom Mine No. 1 in Pike County. The action — the toughest enforcement action available to federal regulators — would shut down the mine until safety hazards are addressed and Massey Energy demonstrates it can operate the mine safely.

The Freedom Mine employs about 130 miners and was cited for safety violations more than 700 times this year alone.

The move is viewed by mine safety experts as one response to the deadly explosion in April at Massey's Upper Big Branch mine in West Virginia. Twenty-nine mine workers died in that tragedy, which has triggered civil and criminal investigations.

For 33 years, the agency has had the authority to take mining companies to federal court when they have serious and persistent safety violations. But this "injunctive relief" section of the Federal Mine Safety and Health Act has not been invoked until now.

... more at the link above ...

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 03:40 PM

Am I right to think that the Tea Party would like to shut down the Labor Department as "big government"? Grrrrr!

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 09:50 PM

Rand Paul, just elected senator from KY, has some interesting things to say about mine safety.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:23 AM

Such as?

Subject: RE: 29 dead in West Virginia mine explosion (Apr 2010)
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:51 PM

This has to be seen to be believed.

Mine Safety Regulations are Not Needed

Russ (Permanent GUEST)