BS: Palin: She's at it again

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:53 AM

Thanks, Greg, for proving yet again that your true home is indeed the gutter.

QED


It's always a pleasure discussing with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:48 AM

Well, it's just slightly disappointing that one of Greg's posts, the one to which Kendall refers, has been deleted, it appears.   At least I can't find it.

It's a shame that's gone, since it illuminates the essence of Greg F so sharply--bankrupt of logic, facts and any debate skills, he returns to his true habitat---the gutter.

Now let's just examine the initial exchange which has brought us to this point, since it illustrates Greg's MO so clearly--and not just with me.

1) A Mudcatter--I'm the one this time, but it's often Doug R--makes an observation contrary to Mudcat conventional wisdom. (I hasten to add that I disagree with Doug R on virtually everything--as he knows.)

2) Greg F responds, not directly, but in his patented approach--sneering at either the Mudcatter or the source--or both--with a snide, simplistic and at its base totally meaningless remark--contributing precisely nothing to the discussion.

Here it was, as far as I remember: " Blog-O-Pedia, Ron, is not reliable on many, if not most, things, and is authoritative on none".   

A particularly gratuitously stupid and pointless remark--especially since, anticipating this, I had already prefaced my remarks about Sweden by saying that I realized
Wikipedia is not reliable on everything.   "But on this it has the ring of truth."

3) When challenged directly to tell us why the data on Sweden are wrong, he scuttles under the nearest rock, denying he said anything, and that anything he has been caught in behaving idiotically is "minutiae"   And of course he falls into the gutter on the way to the rock.

A fascinating case study. Many thanks to Greg for behaving just as predicted. The little mouse pushed open all of the right doors.   Had this been an experiment, it would have been judged a rousing success.

And, of course, even after all this, whether Greg will learn to think--before posting--is, as always--to put it mildly, still a very open question.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 07:04 AM

The fact is, we are ALL assholes to someone!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 09:50 PM

I have no problem with Simple seeker etc, but ASSHOLE? Yes I do.

I sympathiz ewith your problem, Kendall, but I've had problems with this asshole, too, for quite a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 09:34 PM

There are a lot of twits out there, but not very many of them make 12 million bucks every few months.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: gnu
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 08:30 PM

Left this thread long ago. BUT, I heard on the news today... she made $12M last year.

$12M. A twit. Gosh. There are a lot of twits out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:48 PM

I have no problem with Simple seeker etc, but ASSHOLE? Yes I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 04:28 PM

Sorry, Rings, should have added communism. No matter how you slice it, it's still baloney.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 09:28 AM

Kendall, Ron dubbed HIMSELF the "Simple Seeker Afrer truth"- so guess he's calling himself names. But then, most of his performances are staged primarily for his own enjoyment.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Amos
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 09:28 AM

"Sarah Palin thinks Barack Obama is a wimp. She's been going around to Tea Party rallies, invoking the spirit of revolutionary Boston and castigating Obama for failing to exalt American power and punish our adversaries. She seems blissfully unaware that the imperial arrogance she's preaching isn't how the American founders behaved. It's how the British behaved, and why they lost. Palin represents everything the original Tea Party was against.

"Two months ago, the modern Tea Party held its national convention in Tennessee. There, Palin ridiculed Obama for "reaching out to hostile regimes, writing personal letters to dangerous dictators and apologizing for America." "We need a strong national defense," she demanded. "We must spend less time courting our adversaries."

"Last week, at a tax-day rally in Boston, she resumed her attack. Tea Party activists "will never apologize for being American," she snarked. Our military power is "a force for good throughout this world, and that is nothing to apologize for." She even implied a divine right to fossil fuel. "God knows we have the resources," she told the crowd. "He created them for our use right here in America."

"On Friday, she lit into Obama for saying that America is a superpower "whether we like it or not." On her Facebook page, she asked, "Mr. President, is a strong America a problem?" She accused Obama of being "more comfortable with an American military that isn't quite so dominant," and she faulted him for trying "to apologize for America when he travels overseas." On Saturday, she told reporters, "I would hope that our leaders in Washington, D.C., understand we like to be a dominant superpower. I don't understand a world view where we have to question whether we like it or not that America is powerful."" (Slate)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: kendall
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 08:23 AM

Oh, come on you two! Argue, debate, discuss all you want but please, knock off the name calling. It really detracts from your dialog.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 11:41 PM

So, it appears that my psychoanalysis of Greg was accurate after all-- the answer was #3--he himself says that his remark about Wikipedia was just to run off at the mouth, and should be ignored.    It was not meant to have anything to do with the topic at all--no bearing whatsoever on whether Sweden is "socialist" or not. Though I do suspect that #2 (blinkered world view) plays a role--and possibly # 1. Well, at least we know how much weight to give any of his further contributions.

If he's more comfortable just waffling on about nothing, that's fine.

Obviously he's decided that actually trying to think before hitting "send" is just too demanding.

And as I said, above all, we want him to be happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 10:50 PM

Q - The point is, Socialism is not Communism. Some posters continue to try to make the case that it is. It's all a matter of degree.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 10:22 PM

Oh Omniscient and Infallible Simple Seeker After truth:

By all means imagine and infer anything you wish.

I would suggest, however, as a better alternative that you first learn to read and comprehend the English Language. Surely there is a branch of the Literacy Volunteers in your area? Their classes are free.

You truly are in love with the sound of your own voice, aren't you? And you do go on.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 10:13 PM

Of course not. The poster just told us Wikipedia was authoritative on nothing--directly after I had cited it.   I'm sure there couldn't have been an implication that therefore what I said was also questionable.   Of course not.

The difference between us appears to be that I deal in logic, common sense and research, while dear Greg appears to have no more than a passing acquaintance with any of the above.

But at least he's comfortable back in the gutter.   Above all else, we on Mudcat want Greg to be happy.   What higher purpose could there be to life?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 09:39 PM

In fact I am still patiently waiting for the poster in question to tell me exactly why I am wrong on my data on Sweden...

And you're going to have to KEEP waiting, Oh All-Knowing Simple Seeker, for the simple reason that I never said that your data on Sweden was wrong,

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 09:21 PM

"...piano player in a whorehouse". Well, that's a relief. At least no students are being subjected to the patented Greg F method of teaching.

But I'll have to admit I was unfair in stating that he has obviously never done research.

It's certainly possible that he has attempted to do research.   My assertion was not justified.

So we must consider other reasons for his lack of recognition of my elementary observation on sources.

1) His fragile ego cannot stand the awful admission that somebody else may be correct--and that he is not.

2) His ideological blinders are on so tight that he cannot fathom anything outside his narrow world view.

3) He just likes to run off at the mouth, and doesn't mean to be taken seriously.

Being full of the milk of human kindness, I will venture that the truth is probably mostly #2, with a bit of #3. (But who knows, #1 may play a role also.)



I on the other hand am always willing to admit error.   In fact I am still patiently waiting for the poster in question to tell me exactly why I am wrong on my data on Sweden--specifically that "Sweden's industry is overwhelmingly in private control" and "Sweden has always provided solid support for free trade (except agriculture) and strong property rights".

But as I noted earlier, it looks like it will be a long wait for dear Greg to refute these points.

His ship is still sinking.



As I observed earlier, he could easily remedy his problem by the simple expedient of starting to think---before posting.

Which, unfortunately, doesn't look likely any time soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 09:19 PM

Mirriam Webster Collegiate-
Socialism- 1. any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.
2a. a system of society or group living in which there is no private property. b. a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.
3. the one cited by Ringinslinger.

No matter how you slice it, it's still baloney.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 10:23 AM

Dictionary's definition of Socialism: A stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 08:30 AM

Yet you've told us you're a professor.

Absolutely untrue, Simple Seeker.

I never claimed to be a piano player in a whorehouse.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 05:31 AM

Bobert, LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 11:34 PM

My point is that Billy Bob isn't the only one to be confused on "socialism".   I gather that's your point too, Bobert?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 10:51 PM

Haha...

Here in Mudville, where the average I.Q.s tend to be in the high end, we have all this quabblin' over what and what isn't "socialism"???

So, with that as a backdrop, it is no wonder that Ms. Sarah with her 100 I.Q. (with a tail wind) could get a bunch of rednecks with collective I.Q.'s in the "dull-normal" range all lathered up over Obama tryin' to turn the country into a socailist nation...

BTW, "dull-normal" I.Q.s ain't all that bad if all ya gotta do is figure out how to get 15 tatooes on yer arms, how to cut two holes in the bed of yer perfectly good pickup truck and run some chrome exhaust pipes thru them 15 feet into the air and spend every waking minute sittin' in front of a TV watching cars go round and round and round and round and round....

But, pleease, don't burden Billy Bob down with explaining what socialism is unless you just want a good laugh...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 08:39 PM

Don't hold your breath, Greg. I'm afraid your track record on facts and logic is not the best--you're in no danger of being hired. It's actually fairly obvious that you've never done any research--otherwise you'd know the truth of my observation on determining the worth of sources.

Yet you've told us you're a professor.

A professor who's never done any research.

Interesting.



And you were going to tell us why my facts on Sweden are wrong.

Can't imagine how that slipped your mind.   

Your ship is still sinking.   Why don't you untie yourself from the mast?




Just imagine--all you'd have to do is think before hitting "send".   You'd cut down dramatically on your embarrassing errors.    Just try it some time.   Your whole life would brighten up.

A bit of friendly advice--since you know we only want the best for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 02:27 PM

Sorry Simple Seeker, not playing your bait & switch & baffle 'em with minutiae games.

Overall, I stand behind my analysis of Blog-O-Pedia.

If they (or you, for that matter) would like to hire me as an editor and fact-checker for a decent salary, I'd consider the offer.

Let me know, will ya?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 04:16 PM

"masts of sinking ships."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 04:12 PM

Very true observations, Q, but it doesn't stop an amazing number of Mudcatters from seeing socialist paradises in an impressive number of places.

They seem to have little clue what would finance socialist aspects of a society.

Still waiting for Greg's refutation of my points on Sweden.   It's gonna be a long wait.




Wikipedia is just like any other source. Can't be accepted alone, but if supported by other sources, should not be rejected out of hand.

And the data on Sweden can easily be confirmed.   Much to dear Greg's discomfort.

He does have a strange compulsion to lash himself to the mast of sinking ships.

Pobrecito.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 03:07 PM

Sweden, Canada and all countries that fall into that group are capitalist with a touch of socialism (medicare, etc.).

True socialist societies are non-existant; they cannot exist in a competitive world.
(The pueblo Indians of North and Central America, once moderately socialist, have become capitalist-socialist mixed societies).

Communism is non-existant; Cuba has a strong centralized controlled government (directed from the top); North Korea is similar but much more repressive and tightly controlled.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 02:29 PM

More interesting than the material that one finds in Wikipedia files, is quit often the material that one determines to have been removed.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 10:12 AM

Fine, Greg.   So you will now tell us where it is wrong on this.

For instance;   "strong support for free trade", "Sweden's industry is overwhelmingly in private control".

We'll start with those.

True or false?

Why does it seem likely that it will take you a few eons to refute these?

Looks like you've lashed yourself to the mast of another sinking ship.

Situation normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 09:38 AM

Yes, it's the very same evil capitalist system which makes Sweden's success financially possible.

"Socialism", I'm sorry to say, does not pay for itself.    Unless you think that for instance Cuba should be your model.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 09:36 AM

Blog-O-Pedia, Ron, is not reliable on many if not most things and is authoritative on none.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 09:34 AM

There seems to be an amazing amount of fuzzy thinking about economics around here.

For instance, Sweden is often cited as socialist.

OK, Wikipedia is not reliable on everything. But on this it has the ring of truth.

Sweden , prime example of the "Nordic model" has social security, health care and free education.



However, also:

"Sweden's energy market is largely privatized."   

"Sweden has always provided solid support for free trade (except agriculture) and strong property rights" "

"Sweden's industry is overwhelmingly in private control; unlike some other industrialized Western countries, such as Austria and italy, publicly owned enterprises were always of minor importance."

So it appears that in some respects Italy is far more "socialist" than Sweden.

Will Italy now be the socialist paradise of choice for Mudcatters?.

Face it, it's Sweden's capitalism in large part which makes its socialist aspects financially possible.   And in fact may well be a reason it is better shape than Italy, which has much more state ownership of some firms.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 09:32 AM

Sorry, neither the Bundesrepublik nor Sweden are socialist.


SHIT!!! Ya mean Rush and Glenn and the BuShites and the Teabaggers are WRONG??

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 09:25 AM

Funny thing about Ms. Sarah and here followers is that I doubt seriously if any of them, Ms./ Sarah included" could come close to defining waht "socialism" really is...

But there is a reason for this and it also is one of the reasons that the US is in decline internationally on lots of levels... We have a dumbed down population that has been slowly but surely striped of all abilities to think critically... That leaves only rote memory and, to be truthful, not alot of that...

So these only understand bumper sticker lenght policy psoitions... Actually, that don't really understand them at all... They parrot them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 01:15 AM

I hear the ladies are insane there.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: beeliner
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 12:31 AM

Germany is socialist in the sense that the society, not the individual, is considered the basic unit. I guess you could call that 'socialist by definition'.

I've never been to Sweden.

Nor have I ever been to Spain - but I kinda like the music.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 12:26 AM

Sorry, neither the Bundesrepublik nor Sweden are socialist.

Both are mixed socialist and capitalist.

To have socialist aspects you need financing from somewhere. Usually it's the tax base--which means taxing firms as well as individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: beeliner
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 11:17 PM

Ake, I am more of a socialist than anything, so you can include me out. (As Yogi Berra once said)

I think that was Sam Goldwyn, who also said (re TV), "People are staying away from the movies in droves!".

I lived in a socialist country for almost ten years, the Federal Republic of Germany, and it was nice, for the first time in my life, to be able to say that I was a socialist without stopping conversation dead.

Millions of American live in wretched poverty, sometimes for generations, unable to dig their way out. That is shameful.

There's no poverty in Germany, not as we know it here.

The president is nothing remotely like a socialist. Would that he were. He is, however, certainly an enormous improvement over that which preceeded him.

The Germans think so too.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 10:18 PM

We've already experienced Ronald Reagan, Don, but some folks are too young to remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:29 PM

Beware of the political figure who is all image and no substance.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:28 PM

Also, Bobert, you better hope none of the womenz read what you wrote.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:14 PM

Bobert--

That's a bit harsh--she's no more a prostitute than any other politician.   She's just exploiting the system.   Does undercut her "victim" status a bit.

And makes you wonder why anybody would be whining about how she was mistreated re: clothes, as we had just recently in the thread.

Also supports what I said earlier--with no money worries, she's likely to turn to other goals to satisfy ambition.

She is dangerous, as an accomplished demagogue-- and it's time for Mudcatters to wake up to that.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:06 PM

not "media", but rather "in the press"

Same questions.

Same diagnosis.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:05 PM

BTW, folks... Ms. Sarah is reported to have raked in a coool $12M in the last year...

How you you spell "prostitute"???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:03 PM

"perhaps the ghost writer....".   

1)   Which "media"--with exact names and sources.   As I said, "Washington Post" Book World doesn't cut it. A lot more specifics needed.

2)   As it is, still sounds like a classic smear.    You'll have to contact Rig to see if he has a franchise available in Smears R Us.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 06:39 PM

First of all, Ake ol' buddy... I'm not sure where you are getting your information but most liberals that I know never discuss "socialism" in the context of their own persoanl politics... Ya' see, the word has been completely demonized her in the states to the point where folks on the left just don't use that term to any degree...

As for Sarah Palin, Ake... Exactly what position is it that she has put forward that you agree with??? I mean, I've been waiting for a long time for her to articulate one real position but with the exception of that tricky PR slogane "Drill, Baby, Drill" she doesn't do positions... Oh yeah, she's for "freedom" and for "taiking our country back" but the just emot5ional empty rhetoric... Anyone can say those kinds of things without articulting one posotion on any real issue...

BTW, "We don't like taxes" is not an issue, Ake, ol' boy... Or if one thinks it is then one has a responsibility to offer a a plan that deals with less revenue coming into the government... No plan, no position...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 05:52 PM

Ayers has been mentioned in the press as perhaps the ghost writer of "Dreams..." No positive information was implied.

Getting back to Palin, future speaking engagements:
April 22- Houston TX (Barbara Bush Literacy Foundation!)
April 23- Eugene OR, Republican fund raiser
April 29- Austin TX, Majella Society
May 1- Independence MO, PAL (Preserving American Liberty)
May 2- Wichita KS, Bethel Life School fundraiser
May 13- Benton Harbor, MI, Economic Club of SW MI
May 14- Charlotte NC, NRA National Convention.
etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 11:30 AM

The Republican Party left the planet with Ronald Reagan.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin: She's at it again
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:05 AM

And Abe Lincoln, and Teddy Roosevelt.....