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Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread

Max 17 Apr 10 - 06:27 PM
Max 18 Apr 10 - 01:48 PM
Sandra in Sydney 18 Apr 10 - 07:38 PM
Max 18 Apr 10 - 11:04 PM
Max 18 Apr 10 - 11:25 PM
Joe Offer 18 Apr 10 - 11:47 PM
Jeri 19 Apr 10 - 01:04 PM
Soldier boy 20 Apr 10 - 02:14 PM
Jeri 20 Apr 10 - 04:33 PM
Bill D 20 Apr 10 - 04:51 PM
Bill D 20 Apr 10 - 05:48 PM
Max 20 Apr 10 - 08:04 PM
Artful Codger 20 Apr 10 - 11:15 PM
Geoff the Duck 21 Apr 10 - 04:53 AM
Mr Red 21 Apr 10 - 11:47 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 22 Apr 10 - 04:31 AM
Bill D 22 Apr 10 - 12:45 PM
Richard Mellish 22 Apr 10 - 05:38 PM
VirginiaTam 25 Apr 10 - 05:45 AM
Max 27 Apr 10 - 10:31 AM
Mark Clark 27 Apr 10 - 03:16 PM
Joe Offer 27 Apr 10 - 04:26 PM
wysiwyg 28 Apr 10 - 01:37 PM
Jeri 28 Apr 10 - 10:25 PM
gnu 29 Apr 10 - 05:48 PM
catspaw49 29 Apr 10 - 06:44 PM
Artful Codger 02 May 10 - 10:55 PM
BK Lick 03 May 10 - 05:28 PM
Joe Offer 04 May 10 - 02:36 AM
Sandra in Sydney 04 May 10 - 03:00 AM
Acme 04 May 10 - 10:30 AM
Bill D 04 May 10 - 11:01 AM
BK Lick 05 May 10 - 04:16 AM
Joe Offer 05 May 10 - 03:01 PM
Joe Offer 05 May 10 - 03:58 PM
Bill D 05 May 10 - 04:00 PM
Bill D 05 May 10 - 04:02 PM
Joe Offer 05 May 10 - 04:13 PM
katlaughing 05 May 10 - 05:42 PM
The Fooles Troupe 05 May 10 - 08:16 PM
The Fooles Troupe 05 May 10 - 08:25 PM
The Fooles Troupe 05 May 10 - 08:30 PM
Jeri 05 May 10 - 08:42 PM
The Fooles Troupe 05 May 10 - 08:45 PM
The Fooles Troupe 05 May 10 - 08:49 PM
katlaughing 05 May 10 - 09:12 PM
Joe Offer 06 May 10 - 12:21 AM
BK Lick 06 May 10 - 02:04 AM
Sandra in Sydney 06 May 10 - 02:49 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 06 May 10 - 05:02 AM
Joe Offer 13 May 10 - 12:02 AM
Acme 13 May 10 - 06:42 PM
Artful Codger 13 May 10 - 07:59 PM
wysiwyg 14 May 10 - 03:17 PM
Joe Offer 27 May 10 - 11:41 PM
katlaughing 29 May 10 - 04:39 PM
michaelr 29 May 10 - 06:06 PM
katlaughing 29 May 10 - 07:16 PM
peregrina 30 May 10 - 05:37 AM
VirginiaTam 30 May 10 - 06:32 AM
EBarnacle 30 May 10 - 01:32 PM
katlaughing 26 Jun 10 - 02:20 PM
VirginiaTam 26 Jun 10 - 03:07 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 26 Jun 10 - 03:27 PM
Joe Offer 26 Jun 10 - 03:48 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 26 Jun 10 - 03:55 PM
wysiwyg 26 Jun 10 - 04:43 PM
Artful Codger 26 Jun 10 - 05:08 PM
katlaughing 27 Jun 10 - 12:36 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 27 Jun 10 - 12:51 PM
katlaughing 31 Jul 10 - 04:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 31 Jul 10 - 05:48 PM
katlaughing 31 Jul 10 - 11:17 PM
katlaughing 08 Oct 10 - 02:57 PM
ClaireBear 08 Oct 10 - 03:07 PM
katlaughing 08 Oct 10 - 07:37 PM
gnu 09 Oct 10 - 11:57 AM
Joe Offer 09 Oct 10 - 12:24 PM
maeve 09 Oct 10 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,Grishka 06 Mar 11 - 05:31 PM
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Subject: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Max
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 06:27 PM

I will edit this thread as a notebook for me. Don't read anything into it if your message is deleted, it just means I've noted it. Just trying to keep this clean for my polling, testing and feedback needs.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Max
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 01:48 PM

OK Gang, this is probably a mistake on my part, but check out http://dev.mudcat.org. Login if it does not recognize you as a member.

Click "Membership " on the top button bar. You should see 3 new blanks at the bottom of your membership info. Profile Link, Profile Pic, and Profile Misc. There you can enter your online profile. For some this might be Facebook, others Google or you could link to the profile we currently have for you here at mudcat.org.

So on this dev site, when you are within a thread, if you click on the users name, and they have put something in that field, you will be taken to their profile page. If they haven't filled that out yet, you will get the old results which was a list of that user's posts.

Browse around the dev site, there are a few other changes in there that should go live soon. Let me know what you think.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 07:38 PM

Open Mike - at Cupofkindness which replaced The Annex, we have the option of posting pics straight from our very own computers. If you want to see lotsa' pics have a look at Hobbies & Crafts. Posting is very easy - after you learn there has to be some written text for a pic to successfully attach, submit a piccie on it's own without a caption of some kind & see a blank screen.

It uses Proboards which is a free customizable message board.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Max
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 11:04 PM

OK, I spent my Sunday going through the links by hand and cleaned them all up.

I also put some time into a new search I'm experimenting with. Try it out on the dev site. It's the Google one below the Standard Mudcat Search, and it appears elsewhere as Max's Handmade Magic Search.

Added a print function to the DT to give you a nice clean print of songs.

I want to get started on more tools for research and song harvesting.

Also, the me and the Vols do thread grouping and DT linking. I'd like to make it a bit smoother and open that process up to a lot more of you.

As for member profile features, at the moment I'm satisfied with 3 links for you. One can link to a profile or blog like facebook or Google, one can link to a photo page like Flikr or Picassa, and one can link to a site that has your music.

mudcat.org has to stay light, and the only way to truly accomplish that is to have everything heavy offsite. Users with more bandwidth can choose to take those links.

that's all for now.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Max
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 11:25 PM

I forget who brought it up, but anyone can change the default AGE in their bookmark. If you just add ?age=3 to the end of mudcat.org you can override the default of 1. So bookmark http://mudcat.org?age=3 or whatever number you want.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 11:47 PM

Hi - we have a nice link in Quicklinks for Song Origins. Could we have a similar one for Songwriters/Musicians?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 01:04 PM

Reguarding the incorporation of menu bar items such as 'Auction' into Quick Links, this completely buggers my ability to right click anything and 'open in new tab'. If I don't want to leave the thread I'm in completely, I have to open some random thread and go to the Q-link.

I like the 'mudcat.org' font. It's sorta like the X-Files 'the truth is out there' font.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Soldier boy
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 02:14 PM

Wow Joe Offer, your quicklink to "SONG ORIGINS" (joe's posting 18 April 10 11.47pm above) is fantastic!
I've never come across such a huge listing of songs and their lyrics listed alphabetically by song title.

It is really easy to find the song you are looking for and very easy to print off the lyrics. I am very pleased to have found this. Excellent work Sir!
Thanks

Chris


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 04:33 PM

Don't know where the link went, but I swear it was there yesterday.
'Membership' at the dev site


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 04:51 PM

And by the way... for Opera users, there is a wonderful resource where you can create (drag & drop) special buttons to do 'almost' anything you'd want to do in a browser toolbar.
I have extra buttons to toggle various toolbars on & off (makes extra space)and to get new tabs......but there are hundreds (wow, they say over 2600) of choices (most of which are very special needs)...like controlling java, javascript, cookies.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 05:48 PM

Max would have specify the colors that are used by default, that is, if you don't over-ride it with your own settings. He is still playing with many options for the whole setup, so it may change.

If you view the 'source' (basic HTML) for this page, it includes the color #3D3726 (for one specific spot), which is just one of several ways to specify colors.

here is a screen capture of two different color picking programs I opened at the same time, to check. You can see the 3D3726 in the hexidecimal box, but it is also R38, G55, B61 in the RGB way of designating it.

   As you see in the 'about' panel to the right of ColorSelecter, it is a free program under SourceForge, the opensource consortium. This one way I explore and choose colors...(yeah, I have 4-5 more...wouldn't you guess?) Tho other one "Smart Color" is still available at scroll down to Smart Color

So...Max may delete this and other posts, but I may start a separate 'tech' thread so that those who wish to explore these things can have a link.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Max
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 08:04 PM

Sorry, I'm changing things fast. The membership info is in the Quicklinks (top-right) as "Profile".

Changing colors now.


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Subject: RE: Message list dropdown
From: Artful Codger
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 11:15 PM

Some feedback:

While I like the related thread and related song dropdowns, I feel the Quickjump dropdown, replacing the explicit message list, is less useful and less efficient. With the explicit list, one could often tell at a glance (with shorter threads) who added the last message and when. Even as the message list grew, it was easier to skip to the end of the listing with the Page Down button or mouse scroll wheel, without having to first open a dropdown (whose visible area is also more limited).

The explicit listing also allows us to copy a link to a particular message, for adding cross-reference links in new posts. The dropdown leaves no reasonably straightforward way to achieve this. See the other recent thread on updating Mudcat for my further comments on this subject.

The dropdown does conserve some space, so there is less stuff to skip past, but since you usually have to scroll anyway (or reload the page with the "Sort Descending" link) it's still more efficient not to have to use a dropdown. Often, checking the last entries was sufficient to know whether to bother scrolling or jumping down to the newest messages, and in the case of scrolling, was a consistent continuation of the operation you were just doing.

For the quickest quickjumping, you'd list the dropdown entries in the reverse order of the messages, so the first entries jump the farthest.

If the Quickjump dropdown is retained, the label should be expanded, so it's clear what one is quickjumping to: "Quickjump to thread message"? I would also list the date first, to make them easier to scan; the user names would still list relatively straight down.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 04:53 AM

Max - I would like to echo Artful Codger's comments about the quick-jump drop-down menu being tested on the Dev version. Like him, I have often found the old style system useful for linking to a specific posting within a thread, by copying the link location from the Blicky in the list at the top of the thread, then pasting it as a new link within my posting. That possibility seems to have been lost under the drop-down system.
The old system also allowed me to use the "postings" list at the top to open a specific posting in a separate tab, and keep the thread in the original window - useful when comparing two messages, or replying to a particular comment.

Separate comment -
One test which might be worth doing is try the quick-jump on a really long thread - MOABS is the longest I am aware of - and compare with the old forum system for speed of loading and how easy, or difficult, it is to find a specific posting you know is there.

Quack!
Geoff.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:47 AM

OK link to my profile (my website) works. Not sure where the picture appears yet. But- Hey! I have plenty of pictures on my website.

I am trying to write JavaScript to extract Webfeet data and summarise it for any geographical region with a radius of interest. Geeze - aren't computers stupid?


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:31 AM

[Posting from inside the Dev site]

Thanks for the colour-change, Max, much better

I like this font better but I STILL have a problem with the teensy print and would really really like not to have to resize the page every time. (Tom, I did mention this in an earlier post, though it may now be deleted - I'm in Preview and can't easily check. Yowks, I can hardly see Preview either - enough of my mistakes already get through as it is...)

A lot of us are baby-boomers, so remember how old that makes us - I think the general age of the Mudcat population means this is going to be an issue with some of us, and re-sizing the page is extra hassle. A small one, but extra hassle. Often I only glance in briefly because of being pressed for time, so I don't know if that will make a difference or not. Why can't the print just be be the size it used to be? If not, does it have to be SO SMALL?? Even with reading glasses it's eyestrain to try to see -

I agree with Kat about re-instating the word "Folklore" which might encourage more Malcolm Douglases to come aboard.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:45 PM

Sandra in Sydney... sorry, I wasn't thinking. Pref-Bar is an add-on (extension) for Firefox.

You get it here. In Firefox, you just click the link which says 'install', and it does it. Then you have to reload Firefox for it to be recognized. Then you open the PrefBar options menu and choose which buttons to display ON your pref bar and which ones to enable. (Sounds like a lot of hassle, but is really pretty obvious once you poke about. I just do the fonts, colors, and a couple other button.)



a list of buttons and uses is here


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:38 PM

Max said
> if you click on the users name, and they have put something in that field, you will be taken to their profile page. If they haven't filled that out yet, you will get the old results which was a list of that user's posts.

OK, fine, but if they have filled in their profile page how do you get past that to the list of posts?

I share Geoff the Duck's concern about being able to make a link to a particular post.

Apropos text size, I am well accustomed to using [ctrl/+] in Firefox to enlarge the text on many websites but, as Bonnie says, it's extra hassle. Let's keep the same size that we're used to.

Richard


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:45 AM

Hi Max

First off apologies if following gets to be over the top. Just a few of my thoughts on Quick Links.

In the Quick Links on the dev site - Personal Page and Profile go to the same place. Is it necessary to have two links? What if you called it was Your Personal Profile? No confusion about what it is.

I like the New Messages Since Last Visit, but isn't it a repeat of Messages by Date?

Since the Member Info & Photos doesn't go anywhere but to an outdated list of members by geographic locations - maybe it should just go. Personal info could cover that if members so chose to build their profiles. I still would like an honorarium page for deceased members, but I understand if it is too much to maintain.

Really really like the Vetted Links. Couldn't the Mudcat Market, and mudcat Tshirt, CDs etc. be added to that list and lose the separate quick links? Also how do we add stuff like festivals to the vetted links?

About DigiTrad is a broken link. If and when it is fixed couldn't the Download a Copy and DT Keyword Search links go on that page instead of having separate quick links.

See where I am going with this? There are too many quick links and I get lost looking through them.

Glossaries and Russian songs might go into one stop page on Accent, Dialect and Languages in Song. And Kids Stuff and Jump Rope Rhymes might go together.

AM I MAKING TOO MUCH OF THIS? If so, please tell me to back off.

Contact Us is great. Especially if Help and Technical Questions refers to Forum help and sends your question to one of the moderators. It took me forever to learn who 2 of the mods were and if I had a question, then I had to scan through threads to find their names so I could PM them. A quick link will make things so much easier.

I notice that the FAQ is not in the Quick links list and there is no longer across the top of page links bar (where it resides on current page). Please don't lose the FAQ. Great stuff in there.

Thank again for sticking with us for long and through so much drama. I really appreciate it. When did you hope for the dev site go live?

Tam


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Max
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 10:31 AM

Made the font bigger.

Added a checkbox to the quicklinks that open the links in a new window.

Adding "and Folklore" back to the tagline.

Switching to Google Translate.

Likely will reverse the order in the Quickjump.

Creating a musicians page like origins.

Will link Help to a help Permathread.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Mark Clark
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 03:16 PM

Great work, Max! And thanks to others contributing useful ideas.

There is one thing that's changed that I think is a shame. The Mudcat default font was always Roman. This may have just been the HTML default but it was a brilliant choice. Typographers have labored for centuries to create type designs that lead the eye and promote readability. The Roman font families are the culmination of these centuries of effort and progress.

Sans serif fonts were developed for use in headlines and titles and to set these headings off from the the surrounding text. They may look “modern” but they were not designed for readability of continuous text.

It's much easier and quicker to scan the list of thread titles for meaningful key words in a Roman font than a sans serif font.

Please bring back Roman as the default font.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 04:26 PM

Hi, Max-
There's a problem with automatic line breaks in Personal Messages. If I include a link that's longer than one line of the message-posting box, Mudcat inserts a <br> line break in the middle, and the link won't work. It works just fine in the Forum, but for some reason there's a problem with personal messages.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Apr 10 - 01:37 PM

A help to me, and perhaps others who arrive at the Forum via the Personal Page:

Can we have the "d" link on traced threads appear on our personal page, as it does on the main threadlist?


And a question-- is it possible to be able to choose whether to display the PMs first or the Traced threads list first?


Thanks,

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Apr 10 - 10:25 PM

A fiddling fish with a fu-manchu 'stache!? I miss the poor banjo-playing bugger already.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: gnu
Date: 29 Apr 10 - 05:48 PM

I am wondering why some peeps have trouble loading threads by using the "d".

Apparently, even when using the "d", all the posts of a thread have to load before they can access it. Essentially, there is no difference in clicking the "d" or the entire thread.

Max... can you shed some light on why this happens?


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Apr 10 - 06:44 PM

I dunno' Jeri........I think there are plenty of uses for "Folklore" and "Tech" threads that may be a bit out of the norm but ultimately essential.

For instance, I think a good tech thread might be finding a conversion table for the actual length of dick miles as opposed to statute miles and nautical miles.

In Folklore, one might ask why the Concertina is destroying folk clubs in the UK.

Christ, I'm bored.............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Artful Codger
Date: 02 May 10 - 10:55 PM

I agree with Mark Clark: I MUCH prefer Times Roman (serif fonts) to sans-serif. Not only do I find it more readable, but it's aesthetically pleasing--and less as if one must be addressed like a dense child.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: BK Lick
Date: 03 May 10 - 05:28 PM

Agree with Artful Codger and Mark Clark -- I much prefer serif to sans-serif (especially with the larger font size).
However, many web designers these days agree that Georgia is a better choice for Web use than Times Roman.
See, for example, web-savvy typography:
The old guideline about only using sans serif fonts on the web because they are more legible
is no longer true. Now you can design without fear using serif fonts on web pages. The most
popular choice for a serif font is Georgia with Times font as an alternative. However, Times
font, designed for print, does not work as well as Georgia.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 May 10 - 02:36 AM

OK, Bruce, so if I'm doing this right, <font face=georgia>This should be what Georgia looks like. And it looks like this in Bold, and like this in italics.
Or do you want something bigger?
But what I want to know, if there is a "font family" that has both serif and sans serif versions?
</font>
But looking at Georgia, is it any different from what we already have? Or is it just not "taking" in my post? Well, I guess now that I corrected the spelling of "Georgia," it's taking - but I don't see a lot of difference.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 04 May 10 - 03:00 AM

well, I always use san-serif fonts!


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Acme
Date: 04 May 10 - 10:30 AM

Joe, serifs (or not) are one of the major elements that help define families of fonts. And I've never seen one named font that comes with and without serifs. Just doesn't make sense.

Generally, the eye has an easier time reading a serif font (I can't name the studies, but I was reading up on this when I taking started web design classes years ago).

SRS


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Bill D
Date: 04 May 10 - 11:01 AM

SRS is correct about families....

'Georgia' is a standard font that comes with Windows (developed BY Microsoft)...I used to use it as MY default. I have no idea if it is also included on Macs. (I have now switched to Palatino Linotype)

Times New Roman and a few others ARE standard on all machines. People can use Times New Roman...or follow the earlier suggestions and override the defaults and use any font they have for viewing.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: BK Lick
Date: 05 May 10 - 04:16 AM

Joe, comparing Georgia with "what we already have" will depend on how your browser's
default font is set because prior to the upgrade Max didn't specify it.
In the upgrade version he does like so:

    body {
    background: #fff;
    font-family: arial,helvetica,lucida,verdana,sans-serif;
    font-size: 12px;
    color: #464646;
    }

I think the serifs are a tad wider in Georgia than in Times Roman.
—BK


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:01 PM

Well, what I'm looking for, is serif and sans-serif fonts that look "right" when used together - fonts that would share characteristics other than serifs. That's what I mean when I say "font families" that include both serif and sans-serif fonts. Does that make better sense to you?
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:58 PM

But back to suggestions for Max:
Some of us tend to neglect to clean out our personal messages. When I load my personal page, some 1500 messages come up on the menu. Might it be possible to have the default display on the Personal Page with perhaps only 50 messages (but having the "display all" option would facilitate [CTRL-F] searching, so that option should also be available).

One more advantage of Google translation - it includes Yiddish, and we have a lot of Yiddish songs posted here.

I'd also like you to consider changing the categories on the thread creation page. lyr/tune/chords add/req tend to give the impression we want separate threads for all those things, and it usually seems best to include ALL information on a song in the same thread. But categories like Guitar, Event, Song, Obit (divided into music & non-music), plus most of the existing categories might be an idea.

Oh, and maybe if QuickLinks had a bit longer display, so users would usually see all the options without scrolling, that would make the options at the bottom of the list more useful.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Bill D
Date: 05 May 10 - 04:00 PM

Joe... I have a number of programs to view fonts... Here's a screen capture of one which will look at 2 selected fonts side-by-side. (No, this one isn't freeware, although it does have a free trial period). http://www.blacksunsoftware.com/xfonter.html

There are other free programs which will show you lists of all the fonts YOU have...
I suppose there are some that would be vaguely similar if you removed the serifs, but designers don't usually do that on purpose.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Bill D
Date: 05 May 10 - 04:02 PM

If you would like, I could do a screen shot of any 2 fonts you specify.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 May 10 - 04:13 PM

Well, maybe I'm looking for something I wouldn't want anyhow. I notice that when I have both Serif and Sans-Serif fonts on the same page, it just doesn't look right. An exception is when I use a different font in a framed table. MY impression is that for viewer-input Web pages like a forum, Serif fonts look better. For Web pages that have more of a look of "permanence," Sans-serif fonts look better. I use sans-serif fonts for the Women's Center Web page I maintain, although I notice that I've neglected to specify fonts on some pages, and then it defaults back to a serif font.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 10 - 05:42 PM

Don't know if anyone has said this before, if so my apologies, esp. if I'm the one who already asked, but please add a choice of country to thread starting options. We don't always catch the ones which are UK specific, etc. and it would be nice to know. We share so many place names.

Thanks,

kat


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 May 10 - 08:16 PM

"Might it be possible to have the default display on the Personal Page with perhaps only 50 messages (but having the "display all" option would facilitate [CTRL-F] searching, so that option should also be available)."

I wouldn't mind that - better for dialups too. Sometimes there CAN be good reasons to hang on to old messages - it helps you remember WHO generously sent you (without any expectations of any return!) that wonderful book on trams 5 years ago, for instance... :-)


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 May 10 - 08:25 PM

"if QuickLinks had a bit longer display, so users would usually see all the options without scrolling, that would make the options at the bottom of the list more useful."

Perhaps a more tree like structure with several things grouped together and extra pop out menu levels would be even more useful. When using a mouse to run thru the choices, there should be little hassle.

The problem 'when Topsy designs things' is that hindsight often can mean that a little reconstructing can make an interface more elegant. It can be a lot of work to rebuild something that Topsy 'designed' - been there, done that ... :-)


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 May 10 - 08:30 PM

I've forgotten the name of the font that I found the most readable - it was the 'in-house' font for Telstra (a MS 'house'), who spent a lot of research money to find a very readable font that worked well in print as well on screens - and very CLEAR down to a VERY tiny size.

Think it was Arial - came in all the flavours. Problem is that I can't seem to get it to work on Linux boxes - it has to be hunted down and specially installed - and I think it has some copyright hassles, so there is another font that looks very close...


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Jeri
Date: 05 May 10 - 08:42 PM

Joe, archive the older messages, you PM hoarder! The archives display 100 at a time, and you can archive bunches at a time.

I like Arial, but Times Roman (or whatever the old one is) is a whole lot easier to read.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 May 10 - 08:45 PM

The 'Web Savvy Typography' page is of course trying to 'sell something'... like all those 'great ideas' it is 'bloody useless' when the bulk of machines

1) don't have your special fancy fonts (and any other 'junk' needed!) already installed - eg PDF for one...

2) the capabilities of the machine being used by the 'user' preclude installing such fancy stuff as it may not be available for all or older machines.

3) CSS is a great 'fad' (as indeed were others that deemed that you needed lots of 'graphic spaces' etc for layouts that looked EXACTLY like a 'printed page') - but the HTML defaults systems were originally designed by very clever people to not need to clutter up the communication channel with heaps of useless and often very pointless crap giving slower transmission. Don't forget that 'some' people specify 'use user defined local settings' anyway to override a lot of that for various readable font names and sizes and colours anyway! :-)


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 May 10 - 08:49 PM

Sorry - was distracted by a phone call - The 'Web Savvy Typography' page page cretins 'geniuses' use white type on a black background - I have to highlight that garbage to read it clearly... so much for THEIR 'expertise'!!!! lol....


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 10 - 09:12 PM

I hate that! Even worse is red on a black background or electric blue on black!


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 May 10 - 12:21 AM

Jeri, I know I should archive my old personal messages....but I don't. It always seems I should keep some of those old treasures in view, especially messages from my heroes, like Sandy Paton and Rick Fielding and Art Thieme and Jean Ritchie and Shula....how could I archive messages from those people????
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: BK Lick
Date: 06 May 10 - 02:04 AM

"I like Arial, but Times Roman (or whatever the old one is) is a whole lot easier to read."
As remarked above, "whaever the old one is" or "what we already have" is the default font
you've set for your browser rather than something set by Mudcat.
—BK


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 May 10 - 02:49 AM

as the font thread drift is well established, an act didn't get a booking at my folk club once cos the text on their site was on top of all the pictures!

Even worse that red on a black background or electric blue on black! is words on a zillion different colours. And besides, the music wasn't in our genre, either.

sandra (whose settings are san serif!)


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 06 May 10 - 05:02 AM

Arrrgghhh,

Ye failed to mention yer newest insideous mechanation

pagebadge.rmdstudio.com

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

The following is a good example of what you are doing with Mudcat.
EURALERT - a Scottish research service sent a "partner request for project" under the banner "An ontology based and context aware system for multimodal and multidevice content delivery."

"The introduction of semantics to model the user and device profiles and to support the decision logic in combining them with the context, will allow the crreation of user interfaces which are able to deliver content specifically targeted to the user and his device.

"As we are dealing with different devices and constraints such as bandwidth or user preferences of limitation in accessing the content, the proposed solution will make use of a renderer capable of rending the content in the specific user interface required by the device and user profile and context base on multimodal content provided in a standard forma...."

(New Scientist, March 29, 2008, p 56)

Why did anyone ever go beyond ANSI?


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 May 10 - 12:02 AM

Max, the Filter lets us see only the last 1000 threads or so. Is it possible to allow display threads in groups of 100, going back to our beginning? Sometimes, it's nice to see what was going on at Mudcat on a particular date. An alternative would be to be able to display the Forum Menu for any given date, which would be easier to use than "messages by date."

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Acme
Date: 13 May 10 - 06:42 PM

Joe, I'm only now getting back to this. Two things:

If you would archive ALL of the messages you want to keep, then pull them up by the feature that lets you look at who you have received messages from, they're alphabetical and you can find your heroes easily.

For your font question, you'll often find that designers (of both print and web documents) will combine complimentary serif and sans serif fonts. This choice is in there along with flush left or right, or centered, bold, italics, etc. It has to do with making it easy to read and attractive to the eye.

There is a wonderful little book called The Non-Designer's Design Book, (1994, Peachpit Press) by Robin Williams (different Robin Williams). It's very helpful for understanding how to use these things, and it does translate well to the web. Amazon link.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Artful Codger
Date: 13 May 10 - 07:59 PM

Judging from the Georgia type sample above, it appears to me that Georgia letters are a bit larger in the middle section, and the letters are a bit more evenly spaced (lowercase I's and L's not scrunched quite as closely to neighboring letters). These attributes do render the text a bit more readable.

All fonts are assigned to a "font family", the main ones being "serif," "sans-serif" and "monospace" (think typewriter printing). If a font specified by a web page is not found, the system/user default for its font family is used instead. So unless you're using some unusual-looking font like Papyrus, it doesn't much matter if you have that font installed.

So this may be a case where the "savvy" folks gave good advice: Georgia might be a better choice. The proliferation of phone-based surfing argues for sticking with only the most common fonts. I'm not sure whether Georgia is one of the core fonts you can expect to exist on all systems/iPhony devices, but I've not used a computer without it since the Dark Ages of computing.

Viewing your installed fonts is easy--open any word processor and open your font selection dialog. It will usually show you a sample of whatever font you select in the list. For a larger sample/comparison, type a line or two, then copy it and paste it several times. Then select a sample and change its font. Simple, no?


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 May 10 - 03:17 PM

Max,

I'd like to know if the forum design in its simplest possible form is still avail cheap for nonprofits, in exchange for recommendations and/or a credit line, because I could use one for our parish website. We just got a request for one, yesterday.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 May 10 - 11:41 PM

Minor thing - bad HTML in the Katie Beardie song file. As far as I can tell, we do not have a MIDI for this song.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 May 10 - 04:39 PM

I tried to move a message from a Dennis Hopper obit thread started to by Alice to one started by gnu. I got an error message when I tried to transfer it. It was deleted, instead and I KNOW I did NOT hit delete; I clicked on Transfer. Now, when I try to undelete in order to move it, on the regular Mudcat and the dev. one, I get the following:

Error Diagnostic Information

An error occurred while evaluating the expression:

#val(ThreadID)#

Error near line 12, column 18.

Error resolving parameter THREADID

ColdFusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either:

   1. You have misspelled the parameter name, or
   2. You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag.

The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (#val(ThreadID)#), occupying document position (12:17) to (12:31) in the template file c:\!webserver\mudcat-dev\htdocs\admin\threadundelete.cfm.

Date/Time: 05/29/10 16:32:24
Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3
Remote Address: 98.127.157.229
HTTP Referrer: http://dev.mudcat.org/admin/threadundeleteconfirm.cfm?ThreadID=129813
Query String: Thread_ID=129813


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: michaelr
Date: 29 May 10 - 06:06 PM

Whatever you did, the thread won't load now.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 May 10 - 07:16 PM

Not sure which one you mean, michael, as the Dennis Hopper second one does load: click.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: peregrina
Date: 30 May 10 - 05:37 AM

The font on the dev site is much harder for me to read. The use of several different fonts and the underlining creates visual clutter.

Fonts with serifs (like the one on the regular site) bind letters together into words and play a significant role in the neurophysiology of reading. Good typography and page design developed over centuries and are functional in many ways. Look at the page layout of an elegant well-printed book.

In general sans serif fonts work best for road signs and tabloid headlines, but not for longer blocks of text that people need to be able to scan with quick recognition. (Some research shows that some dyslexics do better with non-serifed fonts. But most people read sans serif with lower comprehension and speed.)

I suggest that the new site might have an option for an alternative/large type view, but that otherwise using fewer different fonts and sizes will maintain legibility.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:32 AM

I prefer the catfish jumping out of the banjo to the one playing fiddle.

don't think the icon should change.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: EBarnacle
Date: 30 May 10 - 01:32 PM

If I were just joining the 'Cat, I would not mind the new logo. As I have been around awhile, though, the old logo still seems perfectly good and not in need of a gratuitous change.

Besides, the catfish on the new version looks Chinese and there are already too many invasive fish species threatening our environmnet.

Also, I, for one, would appreciate having a permathreads category in the dropdown menu.

Please remember that changes should be made to make things easier and clearer for users, not just the changer.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 02:20 PM

Since we aren't going to probably have any more separate sections, I would like to request another thread title prefix: "POL" for political so that is is easy to filter them out of the BS section. As it is now, there are a lot to wade through to find any other type of BS threads. I don't even bother to open most of them. An easy way to filter them out would be REALLY nice.

Thanks,

kat


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 03:07 PM

great idea Kat...

While we are at it, why not a prefix for health? I know there are some problems with starting threads with good thoughts, and prayers needed.

something like

HEALTH: VirginiaTam

HEALTH: VirginiaTam's brother

When anonymity is required the term friend will suffice so long at the OP uses their mudcat name to qualify whose friend.

the prefix will work as well for general health threads, such as:
night time leg cramps
help with halitosis
who has a scorching case of spawtitis

OK maybe not the last one.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 03:27 PM

A smattering of BS prefixes might be a sensible idea to aid those who want to sift (it doesn't matter to me).

'Health' possibly doesn't entirely cover the pastoral care aspect many Catters share. Maybe 'Support'? Or perhaps something more informal sounding.

Otherwise there's 'Dumb Stuff' and 'Topical?'


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 03:48 PM

Remember that you're free to use any prefix you want to invent. If you want a "Pol" prefix, just type it in. If people like it, then maybe others will start using it. I see that's happening already with the caption threads. We've long had a policy that requires that thread titles reflect what's inside the thread, so we routinely add clarification to thread titles that are unclear. I think that generally, people can easily tell which are the political threads, so I personally don't see a need for a special "pol" prefix.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 03:55 PM

Heh, good point Joe!


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 04:43 PM

I used to try to filter out by prefix but now I just see only those threads I Trace.

Instead of filtering stuff "out," I start with the assumption that what I want to do in prioritizing my time is decide what to filter IN. I take a look at the whole threadlist every few days to pick the ones to Trace and follow. And then if a thread gets snarky I just hit "DeTrace" and then it no longer comes up on my radar at all

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Artful Codger
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 05:08 PM

There should be a formal prefix for when one adds BOTH lyrics and tune. And the shorter, the better, as the prefix eats into the limited subject line length. I've resorted to the prefix "ADD:", which I've seen a few others use; "Lyr/Tune Add:" is excessive. Posts with both lyrics and tune are especially useful, and deserve special recognition. As I understand it, DT gleaners are apt to miss submissions which do not use the "LyrAdd" prefix.

I also think the default subject line for follow-up posts should not include "LyrAdd"-type prefixes, just the "RE: " bit. All you can really expect in reply threads is that they'll deal with some aspect of the song, and whether lyrics or tunes were originally supplied or requested usually matters not at all. This does not apply to all prefixes; in particular, BS should NEVER be stripped, and "Origins" is useful to see in search results.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 12:36 PM

That would be fine if people did use POL as a prefix, but having it available in the drop down menu would remind them more often and easily, imo, to use it and make it much easier to filter them out, Joe.

I don't think we want to get carried away with too many prefixes, but of course as you say, folks can use anything they want.

Artful Codger, moderators can sometimes add to the title line if you send one of us a PM we'll see what we can do, but I agree, it would be good to have a little more room.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 12:51 PM

"That would be fine if people did use POL as a prefix"

I still think Political is too narrow a prefix, I'd go for 'News' or 'Topical' as not all current affairs threads are exclusively political.

There will always be areas of lesser interest than others for some 'Catters, but if there *were* to be some BS Prefix additions, IMO they aught to be *broadly theme based* and not limited to particular topics that are disliked by a few.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 04:59 PM

"POL" for Political OR "CE" for Current Events

and, "SUP" for Support

What say ye?


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 05:48 PM

POL assumes a division between politics and the rest of life. In fact the politics that matters is about real life - things like how health care and education is organised, and how people can be enabled to get by when things are hard. Or, for example, about ways in which vulnerable people, or members of minorities, can be victimised.

This week in Catalonia they voted to abolish bullfighting. Very much a political issue there. So should discussions about animal rights have a POL prefix?

CE is better - but a thread about the present is all to likely to turn into a discussion about the past. This is the Fifth Afghan War, after all.

Ockam's Razor still makes sense - entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem - "best not multiply the number of categories when it isn't unavoidable"...


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 11:17 PM

Good points, McGrath, but I still like the idea of a prefix to filter OUT those types of threads.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 02:57 PM

Oh, Maxdarlin'....I had so much fun listening to the video you embedded in the "where is our blues folks" thread, it got me thinkin'...uh-oh...here it comes...how possible would it be to have a choice of having music playing whilst reading along in the threads? Music of Mudcatters and/or others whom they like/love AND only plays IF chosen. Folks could turn it off or opt out. Wouldn't have to have vid...just audio. It'd be even neater if each thread had a relevant song playing, but I figure that's way too much. For now, it'd be neat just to have other Mudcatters to listen to...a kind of continuous Mudcat radio.

Wotcha think?


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: ClaireBear
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 03:07 PM

Oh, this thread has resurfaced at a good time! You know, I spend an amazing amount of time searching through threads I've already read for links I didn't have time to follow earlier. I wonder if there is any way to add a "next link" tool to the "post/top/forum home/printer friendly/translate" toolset that shows up under each post?


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 07:37 PM

Max, I like the Max's Handmade Magic Search!


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: gnu
Date: 09 Oct 10 - 11:57 AM

I hadn't noticed the new search.


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Oct 10 - 12:24 PM

Is it the Mudcat Google search, with perhaps a couple of tweaks, or am I missing something?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: maeve
Date: 09 Oct 10 - 12:54 PM

Oh, I see it! Just under the DT Lyrics search, on the top right of this page. It worked well for me. Thanks, Max. Thanks also to katlaughing, for mentioning it.

Maeve


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Subject: RE: Max's Mudcat Upgrade PermaThread
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 05:31 PM

Max,

may I remind you of the thread Tech: Non-ASCII character display problems. Some suggestions made there require only minimal changes in the script and will solve the problem completely. This would be a great relief to all of us, in particular Joe. Please consider it as soon as your time allows. If further explanations are desired, I'll be glad to oblige; Joe knows my e-mail address.

Grishka


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