Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Gervase Date: 06 May 10 - 07:06 PM It's humor, Dick; just humor him. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: catspaw49 Date: 06 May 10 - 07:11 PM Thanks for clearing that up. Just like a bad flavor in your mouth, that kind of thing can color your thinking and leave you in a poor humor. Spaw |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 06 May 10 - 07:17 PM If I may be so bold as to take some of the points that Murray makes (as I believe he is not being malicious in his writings but maybe is a little misguided about the psychiatric process). I am not singling him out in any way but he does raise issues that need addressing. For general information therefore and certianly not in any attack on him: I am not pretty. I consider myself ugly. But then I was not a 'hansome man' either. As a 'man' I was dysfunctional, deeply unhappy, typically gender dysphoric and often wanted to be dead. Once I started living as the female I consider I was/am, life became very difficult initially, but then I became so much more functional as a person, work and pay my taxes, engage mankind and womankind - society generally - and have a life I never knew I could manage. The psychiatrists are there not to judge my attractiveness. Damn. If that was a criteria they would have put me down a long time ago. The two psyichiatric appraisals are to show your sanity (that there is not underlying pschotic illness that is leading you this way or that you are not a transvestite or suffering one of the paraphilias that could lead you to want to be female). Once your sanity is 'proven' only then will a surgeon even see you let alone do the surgery. Many people have plastic surgery and have no psychiatric appraisal or counselling. The psychiatric and counselling saide can be quite arbitrary and cruel. No woman or man has to go through such trials to have to prove who they are. I'll be always be ugly. So what? Is that a crime? I still have to live and survive - the same as all other people - and at least being ugly gives me no pretentions that my life will ever be fully safe or easy. But then many women's lives are not safe and easy either. There is no easy route to being a woman. I had to 'earn' my rights. I do not think that gives me any monopoly on the genetic women who suffer in their lives. Our history (herstory) may differ, but our struggles are similar. Some men do not have it easy either, I know. So, to try and tidy the 'ugly' argument up, it's not a criteria for being a man or a woman (thank heavens). I am happy for anyone who is better looking (about 99% of the population), can sing better, play better, and be better than I am. I am just a woman with a slightly different past trying to make her way through a life I would have never managed as a man. I do not like being ugly but it is a fact of my life. It that offends anyone I can only apologise. You think I like seeing the lovely women around me in the world and give it no thought? I envy them as I do those with good voices. But I do noty begrudge them. It's not their fault they are pretty. It's not mine that I am ugly. I will not walk round with a brown paper bag on my head though! Firm psychiatrists used to lock up girls who had the misfortune to get pregnant from an encounter with a man not too man years ago. Firm psychiatrists were plugging gay men into the mains less that 4 decades ago (aversion therapy) to 'cure' them. It's not a firm pschiatrist I need. I simply want to be able to live and breath in the world as you inhabit. Once again I am NOT singling you out. You have probably just said what many may think. I hope the above addresses some of that faulty reasoning. I am keeping an eye to the thread and trying to respond to those posts that are not mocking. However, I stress, I can only speak for me and not for other women who have travelled this route. For what it is worth I do know that most people do not deliberately say horrid or malicious things. They are simply ignorant, in the true sense of the word, and are maybe looking for explanations. Forgive the length of this anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Emma B Date: 06 May 10 - 07:46 PM Thank you anon a courageous and, hopefully enlightening, post for some. Please let this die Dick I honestly don't see who this really 'helps' apart from the prurient |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 06 May 10 - 07:58 PM That is kind of you Emma but, in honesty, it is not really courageous. Reading posts about people fighting cancer, losing loved ones, supporting those less fortunate, etc., I think them courageous. Seriously I am nothing special whatsoever. The sooner that the mass of people see it as nothing special the better it would be for all sides. People have their bodies changed every day. They do it for all sorts of reasons but, mostly, just to feel better about themselves (though I am fully aware of those poor folk who have major burns and injury that need plastic/reconstructive surgery that is not elective). The remarkable thing... isn't that they [stink bugs] put their tails up in the air - the really incredibly remarkable thing is that we find it remarkable. We have only ourselves to use as yardsticks. (John Steinbeck, Cannery Row) anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Emma B Date: 06 May 10 - 08:02 PM I take it back anon - courageous, modest and empathic. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 06 May 10 - 08:07 PM Emma I wish! If I were nicer I could be a bitch anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Emma B Date: 06 May 10 - 08:09 PM LOL - anon you are a woman after my own heart :) add sense of humour (that's with a u folks) too :) |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 06 May 10 - 08:19 PM I think it must be God with the sense of humour. First he created the Duck-billed Platypus and then he created me! How confusing that has been for science for so long! No wonder society has trouble with it as an issue. In reality it's not important what, who or how I am. As I type this there are election results coming in that will change people's lives in the UK far more than anything I have done. People can ignore me. They will not be able to ignore changes that happen tonight. They really will affect us all. [Totally said with no animosity to any religion, including atheism, or agnostics] The Platypus is far more beautiful than I lol anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Emma B Date: 06 May 10 - 08:43 PM a final thought |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 07 May 10 - 05:02 AM I could never look that cute! No amount of money could make me pretty. As they say in the song "If": "If a face could launch a thousand ships (mine could sink a few)". lol All I can ever do is to try and do justice to my gender. That starts with doing justice to me, which has felt quite selfish at times through decisions I have made, so that I could move forward and get on with doing what we all do. Live! I know some genetic women who are far more masculine than I am, or ever could be, but they are still women. See beyond my shell and you see the real me. I am forunate I do not have to look at me and others do. I truly wish I could just merge and not be seen when out and about. That will not happen. I spent far too long in the shadows and, whilst I have no wish to be in anyone's face, I do come out in daylight. Try not to begrudge me, and those like me, that. Just get on with your life and I'll get on with mine. Sorry about the face! anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: The Sandman Date: 07 May 10 - 05:19 AM anon,and gloria, thankyou for contributing to this thread,I find changing sex a difficult concept to understand,but reading your posts is helping me. I certainly do not begrudge you,and wish you happiness. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 07 May 10 - 05:45 AM In honesty, Good Soldier Schweik, I think most people have a problem truly understanding the deeper aspects of gender dysphoria and the need to have your body changed to be congruent to how you feel you are. Obviously, for the majority of people, they are quite happy being the man or the woman they know they are. They may empathise with my situation but how could anyone not feeling the same truly know what it was like? I have no idea what it is like to have cancer. I can empathise with those who do, but I cannot pretend to begin to understand exactly how it feels. That is why I say I can only comment on what it feels like to be me. I have had men say to me "OMG! I would die if I had to have that done (have their willy removed)". Of course they would. They are men who need to be attached to their genitals. I could never understand why men were happy being men before all this came out in me. I always was flustered and confused by male bonding and 'boys being boys'. All that has gone for me now as I am in my right space. Try to imagine getting up in a morning and each time you look at the mirror a stranger is staring back. Having to shave your face and hating every second of it as you get ready to spend the day living a lie and hiding the better side of you from everyone. Imagine not being able to be yourself and having to be what everyone one wanted you to be. You are a man. Imagine having to dress every day and go out into the world and present as a woman - a woman everyone adores but whom you hate being - and still having to remain functional in your job and with your family and friends. In the end something would give. I have so much respect for those transsexual people who do not do what I do. Those who stayed around and suffered for the sake of those around them. I was not that brave and I took a selfish route to 'become myself' so that then I could deliver what I needed to others. My love came with conditions therefore. I am not proud of what I have done. I know I am not a bad person but I often do not feel I have been a good person either. I chose to be me over staying with the three people who loved me as I was. They loved me unconditionally. All that aside. If you imagine the above happening to you then maybe it will give you some idea of some of the driving forces as to why I did what I have. I think most sane people would feel similar. We all seek to escape lives that are bad for us. Some are lucky enough to be able to manage it. I do not feel cursed by what has happened to me. I actually feel blessed in many ways. My life has taught me far more about life generally than I ever would have experienced living as I was. For what it is worth. One of those three people who stood by and supported me is now dead. She was a remarkable woman. If I manage to be 25% of the woman she was then I will be a great woman indeed. The other two are still in my life and still love me unconditionally. I can now love them so much easier than I used to. I can forget about me far more now and deal with other's issues rather than mine. I am now in my proper niche. Regrets? I have a few. But, then again, too few to mention (lol) I do not have a single regret I am who I am. I do regret that some got hurt in my process. I now work on trying to make that up to them. I also regret to find that I am capable of being so selfish too. It's not a trait I like. However, I have to be honest and take my life as it is, and that means accepting the 'bad' bits of me as well as the good. This is who I am. Hope this helps a little bit more to put some perspective on it anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 07 May 10 - 05:49 AM Here is a poem I wrote way back that may give some insights as to how my life was to me while transitioning and still not fully in my life: What Cannot Be The world around me is closing in Because I choose to see through these eyes of mine A world I want so much to be a part of But probably never can be I look out on a golden meadow And see a world how it could be In glorious sunshine and wonderful shades Of life that never can be Others think they know me well They do not see this world as I do If they knew all there was to tell I doubt they would even want to know the truth Yet I can still be the person they want to know And I can do the things expected of me But I have to keep myself hidden from view They only see half and not what cannot be Inside I am alive and well I mould the world I need to live in But remain, half exposed, so others never really get to know They never get the best from what cannot be I'm judged upon a standard set by others They fit me into how they view the world But just because they are the majority of people I still remain secluded by what cannot be Oh, I know, how difficult this double-act becomes When I am both parts on the stage But only one part of me gets applause Its not the other part that cannot be If people saw with open eyes The real person that I am inside Their and my world would be the richer for it For they would meet what cannot be **** (me) 26/3/2001 |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: buddhuu Date: 07 May 10 - 07:50 AM Anon, cuteness of face is overrated. Any adult with more depth to them than a puddle of pee should have learned that cute doesn't come too near the top of the list of important stuff. Ugly is as ugly does. Meanness of spirit is ugly, bigotry is ugly. You may be no oil painting (me neither!) but, going by the calm, good-humoured and tolerant tone of what you've shared here, you certainly ain't ugly. All the best to you. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,Gloria Date: 07 May 10 - 09:55 AM thanks Dick - i was beginning to think that I had achieved the status of complete invisibility there - like that sketch they had in the Fast Show where the woman is regarded,literally, as a nonentity by the lads. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Smedley Date: 07 May 10 - 10:12 AM Anon, thanks for taking the time, care and trouble to post here. I have no doubts that anyone who'd never really understood the complex and difficult issues you're talking about will learn much from what you've contributed. One question I'd like to ask, however. Why is the issue of attractiveness so important to you now you've transitioned ? and did you care so much about your looks when you were still inhabiting your previous identity ? (that's two questions!) The reason I ask is because some of what you've said could (no doubt unfairly) be interpreted as suggesting that it is somehow a woman's role and/or responsibilty to be 'pretty', much more than the issue of looks is ever seen as important for men. That, to my mind, is a rather conservative view of sexual politics. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Murray MacLeod Date: 07 May 10 - 04:58 PM Anon, you do indeed talk a lot of sense, and I wish you all the best. The point which I was trying to make earlier is that it is easier for a nontransgendered male (such as I) to understand the transformation process when it involves a "male" who has quite obviously from birth been cast in the wrong body. I would cite April Ashley as a case in point. She was quite obviously destined to be a woman, and there is another famous transsexual (whose name escapes me) who was, obviously, a similar case. Stephanie something ? What I do find difficult to understand is when a hitherto normal male, apparently happily married with two children, with broad shoulders, an Adams apple you could ski-jump off, and hands like shovels, suddenly announces to the world at large that from now on he doesn't wish to be called "Andrew" he is going to wear a dress and be known as "Andrea". This isn't a figment of my imagination btw. This is a description of what has happened in a small Highland village recently, involving a public official, and it has caused no end of undercurrents in the local populace. I just have difficulty understanding it, that's all. It's got nothing to do with cuteness, or attractiveness, it's just that I can understand that when nature goes wrong and sticks a pair of balls onto an otherwise female body, then the mistake has to be corrected. It's when there are no other signs of blurred gender that it becomes problematic for me, but as I said in my earlier post, what I think doesn't matter. Anyway, I wish you every happiness in your new life. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,cg Date: 07 May 10 - 06:19 PM Murray, I think you are confusing gender dysphoria and intersex. Perhaps you could get a little more information before issuing instructions on how to live their lives to people you don't know with a condition you don't understand |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 07 May 10 - 06:49 PM Smedley writes "One question I'd like to ask, however. Why is the issue of attractiveness so important to you now you've transitioned ? and did you care so much about your looks when you were still inhabiting your previous identity ? (that's two questions!)" I brought attractiveness up because it was raised in the thread. The comment about being ugly and being better guided by a hard psychiatrist rather than a skilled surgeon. The point I was trying to address was that I was not good looking as a male either. Would that have meant I had no rights to be treated as a male? Thus. I am an ugly female. That's just tough really but I still need to be able to live. For many 'transfolk' it is imperative they 'pass' in their acquired gender. I stopped worrying about it a long time. My physicality would give me away all the time that I had a different history than how I present myself now. So I just binned it and got on with having an 'ugly' life. Not being physically more femanine is certainly a drawback as it opens me to the ridicule of fools far more than if I looked more female. But we all have to suffer fools often, male and female, so why should I expect to be treated different? I would like to be prettier though, there is no doubt, but I have to work with what I have. Murray again raises interesting points and issues. I cannot answer for the person he makes mention of. I can only answer for me. He could do worse than ask them how it happened if they are approachable. As for me. Yes, I transitioned quite late. Many do as they try to adhere to societal 'norms' and stereotypes. Try to fit into what is expected of them as a man. In my case I knew something was very wrong but had no idea just what. I thought I was a freak and a pervert of some kind (many still do! lol). I really did try to be a good man. Beauty aside I am a lot better woman. Finally there comes a day when a threshold is reached and passed. The genie pops out of the bottle and, in my case, there was no putting her back. Here I am. Those that knew me beforehand and have stayed with me all say that this is me. They prefer me this way and can see how much happier I am and relaxed. My daughter prefers me this way too. I am, as I have said, blessed by those in my life. My contributions to this thread are not in any way designed to get a sympathy vote. I merely want to try and explain some of the things that I know people may struggle with. It's not sympathy I need. Just be yourselves (though I appreciate the kind comments I admit). *waves to gloria* Sorry. Way back I had missed you out somehow. Good luck to you too. Anyone have any more glaring and honest questions then ask openly and I will try and answer openly. Thanks again anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 07 May 10 - 07:02 PM andddddddddd, I missed a bit. No I did not care about how good I looked as a male. I never have been in the good looks brigade. Though, I confess, as a woman I wish I looked better in honesty. Anyway, I don't. It mattered not then but it does now. Makes no difference anyhow. I'm stuck with what I have. If this helps at all. I would sooner be an ugly woman living the life I do than a handsome man who is rich with all the trappings of success. If I were a rich handsome man I would use the money to have the same surgery I have had plus have my face done too! I doubt I would stay in a male role for long. This is who I am. This is me. another poem Crazy Thoughts of turmoil sounding loud inside of my head Wrestling upsets and confusions as I lie in bed Inside out and outside in, thoughts rising up and down Heart a pounding, racing ever more, but no-one hears a sound My private world of chaos turning, turning every way East and West, South and North, spinning every day Try to grasp a single strand, one thing at a time Deciphering all that's going on, within this world of mine A messy whirlwind of increasing tides Overhead and over sides Where does it end? Where does it start? Inside my head? Inside my heart? Sounds of fear and of alarm Will there be storms or there be calm? Every day and every night Have I got the strength to fight? Sometimes it's all too much to take But carry on I must, to make A life where fears are overcome To find a place I feel at home anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Smedley Date: 08 May 10 - 02:53 AM Thanks for responding anon - your honesty does you credit. As for the bigots, both in Mudcatworld & more widely, fuck 'em! |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 08 May 10 - 05:59 AM Am not sure the naming of anyone serves any purpose whatsoever other than to maybe make their lives that little bit more awkward with the idiots and fools out there that have their own issues. If they choose to name themselves then that is different but no-one has the right to do it for them. Perhaps a certain post could 'go missing'? anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,Gina Le Faux Date: 09 May 10 - 02:07 PM In answer to Dick's original post, yes. Gina Le Faux |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Art Thieme Date: 09 May 10 - 02:47 PM All the best of everything to you. That is my hope--and I am sure it is your own. If my previous post was offensive to you, and I am certain it may have been, I am truly sorry for that. In the past, I've been known to think humor excuses all. To all of you here at Mudcat, I will strive to improve at this late date. Art Thieme |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 09 May 10 - 04:13 PM In my experience when folk come across something, new, novel, different or something they do not understand, they tend to do one of the following: a) try to get to understand it better or find an explanation (the typical questioning mind who yearns for more knowledge) or b) make fun at it c) denigrate or disparage it d) hate it or try and harm it. There are no names I can be called that I have not called myself at some point during my transition. Indeed I still do at times when I am less than pleased with how I look no matter how hard I have tried to just fit in. Name calling from others often brings with it an amusement over their implied lack of intelligence. They will call you things and say things like they are being so original: like you have never had it said to you at least 100 times before. They will even pat themselves on the back for their ingenuity in being the first one ever to have insulted you that way. They are usually quite smug and, if the insult stops there and does not progress to worse abuse or even threat, one counts oneself lucky to be able to get away from such potential harm. Coming across someone who has used humour in the arena, who has then gone on to think about it and update their ideas, and then apologise, is quite rare. It is also most welcome and refreshing. If only others could not be the same. Self depracation is a way of life to me because it often breaks down attacks before they can begin. Truth is I believe half of what is said to me in insults as I often feel that way about myself in any case. That is why I need to merge and fade into the background and, yet, up I will get in a room full of people and sing a song I think they may enjoy. Hiding is quite contrary to engaging the world. Do you think I may not be built quite right? lol If that apology was in any way sent toward me it is completely accepted and appreciated. believe me, what you said was nothing close to what is often thrown out and intimiated. Thank you anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Murray MacLeod Date: 09 May 10 - 04:45 PM Your posts do you credit, anon, who could help but be moved by your calm and dispassionate reasoning. As I said before, I don't understand gender euphoria (or is it dysphoria, I forget ...) but I do fully grasp that there are female psyches trapped in male bodies and vice-versa. I also realise that in an ideal world, this would be corrected by elective surgery , hormone treatment, etc etc. Howsoever, there is another side to the coin imo (in some cases, maybe not in yours ), but certainly in the case to which I alluded in my earlier post, which resulted in my being labelled a bigot, ( which I certainly am not). The other factor is the effect which the transformation is likely (or certain) to have on other family members, and the degree of responsibility which one should assume, or disregard. The public official to whom I alluded above has a young son who is still at school, plus two daughters who have left school and are at college. I cannot imagine the hell which the boy is going through at the moment at the hands of his school mates, and I can quite easily envisage a teenage suicide in the near future. Can we say "selfish"?? Or can we not ?? You tell me. It's kind of analogous imo to women who decide at the age of 65 that they want to have a baby and spend a fortune on IVF to satisfy their needs, with no thought for the fate of the poor mite who will have to endure a lifetime of ridicule. It may well be that there are no similar circumstances in your case (I certainly hope not) but, in the same way that I can see where you are coming from, I hope that you can see where I am coming from. As before, I wish you every happiness. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST Date: 09 May 10 - 04:45 PM the uk folkscene and sex changes: Change is a constant. I understand the folkscene changing, but sex--well, this world never ceases to amaze me. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 09 May 10 - 05:03 PM When I was much younger, I knew a young man who committed suicide: he was a sensitive, artistic character, and from a stable family. He had girlfriends when at school, but increasing personal difficulties led him to take his own life in his early twenties. Later, when I learned from a reliable source that he "felt like a woman in a man's body", it made a great deal of sense - as he always seemed exceedingly 'feminine' - but never camp or effeminate. I still wish that I could have known him/her? better, and could have been a friend at a time of need. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,Gina Le Faux Date: 09 May 10 - 05:30 PM Dick asked a question to start this thread and I answered him in one word, 'Yes' I am baffled as to why my post has been deleted. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Emma B Date: 09 May 10 - 05:34 PM I think maybe Gina there may be a suspicion that someone else is posting in your name Thank you for clarifying for me earlier that the post did, in fact, come from you. 'Em' |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,Gina Le Faux Date: 09 May 10 - 05:48 PM I tried to join Mudcat but I couldn't get the registration to work. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Herga Kitty Date: 09 May 10 - 05:49 PM I was thinking of Gina when I posted on 22 April, but didn't want to say so in case she was unaware of this thread. Kitty |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,Gina Le Faux Date: 09 May 10 - 05:59 PM Thank you Kitty. Gina |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Joe Offer Date: 09 May 10 - 06:00 PM Hi, Gina- There's something wrong with our regular membership registration page. It IS working at our development Website, however - click the following link: http://dev.mudcat.org/member/EntryForm.cfm -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 09 May 10 - 06:09 PM Murray mentions "The other factor is the effect which the transformation is likely (or certain) to have on other family members, and the degree of responsibility which one should assume, or disregard." I have already made mention that there were people in my life that were affected by decisions I made. I will never be free of guilt for having made those decisions and yet do I regreat who I am? No. In my case I tried desperately hard to go through each step and not take the next without consulting those close to me that truly mattered. I was still selfish however. I do not live in a vacuum - none of us do - and our actions often have immedaite effects on others near by who have no choice in the matter. This is why when people say how proud I should be of what I have acheived I am always at pains to point out that pride is not the thing I feel the most of. I feel guilt and pain for those who got hurt by the flack I caused. I am fortuante. Those close to me stood by me and took what came but there are still 'protection' issues to many around me and I will defend their place asx best I can with safety in mind for them. Many of those no longer accept me for fear of what may happen in the future because of me. I accept the charge but also do more to save their position than I do my own. I am no 'nice person'. It is simply what they deserve for having once been attached to me through fault of birth. I do not see you as a bigot. I think you have a genuine struggle to understand what it is makes some people go the 'whole hog', seemingly with no thought for those around them, and you search for answers. It is only what I did when I was going through the whole process. Gender counselling is quite bad. I wasa told many years ago to 'forget my family and move on' by the very team supposed to be helping me. I ignored their advice (demands) almsot to my peril. It took me 8 years to get through a system it takes 2 normally. It had to be done my way. Not theirs. It was/is my life. Not theirs. Some of the advice and demands they make are cruel and totally unreasonable. I fear some do it because they have to survive the system. I can only comment about me. This has been easier for me than those around me. I have worked on keeping relationships alive that were being killed by my need to be able to live as who I am. I cut a balance. Many cannot manage it and some have the backs of loved ones turned against them too. But then people do that all the time to each other and their children. Broken homes, affairs, divorce and such all take their toll on children. It is them who need looking out for and often that means making a complete break for many. I am not making any excuses for my selfishness nor the decisions I made. I take the whole responsibility for them and try even now to put things right I made wrong. Guilt is an every day thing of my life. So it should be. I deserve that and see it as my wages often. I am sorry I happened to many of the people in my life. I am not sorry they happened to me. All I can do is try and limit the damage. For many they would have been better off attending my funeral than having to know I was doing what I was doing and am what I am. But I also know well what suicide does to those left behind so that was not an option I could take even when I thought about it. I have not been out all weekend. Between this thread and other things that have been said to me this weekend by various people I have felt quite overwhelmed by it all. The fact is that it all falls to the gender dysphoric person to sort it and deal with it all. It all falls on their shoulders when the real culprits for the damage, the fear and the hate are the bigots and the bullies. I do not have to be safe and careful for those I love because I am a woman. I have to do that because there are people out there who like judging, hurting and messing in others lives. They are the ones who caise the damage. But for now, until society changes fully, I will carry my share of the blame and guilt. After all. It is my decisions that have caused it to happen. QED It has to be my fault. anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Herga Kitty Date: 09 May 10 - 06:13 PM And Gina's 02.07 post has been reinstated. Kitty |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,999 Date: 09 May 10 - 06:15 PM Dear Guest, anon: Other people`s prejudices or `pet peeves` are NOT your fault. Don`t let that stuff get to your head. Even people who have lighter issues to deal with often feel as you do at times. Find it in your own heart to forgive yourself as you seem to forgive others. My best wishes to you. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 09 May 10 - 06:21 PM Oh I'm okay. But thanks for your kind words. It is hard to tell it as it is from my point without sounding like some badly done to victim. I don't mean to. I am not a victim. I am lucky. We all have our crosses to bear. All I am saying is that sometimes it becomes a ginormous load to hold on your shoulders. I wish it had been easier for all - WAS easier for all involved - and, in time, thanks to frank and open discussions like this, it will get easier. I am lucky I have such a good life. I constantly remind myself that too. I get to live as who I am, and apprecaite it, each day I breathe. Just sometimes it weighs heavy. I hold no monopoly on guilt or pain, I know it. It could be far worse. anon aka morose-bitch-at-times-but-often-quite-nice-to-know |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Murray MacLeod Date: 09 May 10 - 06:44 PM Guest anon, what's done is done and cannot be undone. I do not know , and do not have the right to know, the exact details of your circumstances. You are obviously under obligation to reveal such details, but what I will say is that if you were a parent while you underwent the change, and if your children were under school -leaving age, then I am sorry, I for one would say that there is no justification on earth for deciding to go through with the change, no matter what internal trauma you were experiencing. If on the other hand you were not a parent, or if you waited until your children had left school, then good on you, I wish you all the best. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Murray MacLeod Date: 09 May 10 - 06:46 PM oh dear, that should read : ..."You are obviously under no obligation to reveal such details" ... |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Gina Le Faux Date: 09 May 10 - 06:52 PM To Murray MacLeod Unless you know the full circumstances and the people concerned you cannot make fair judgements. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Noreen Date: 09 May 10 - 06:54 PM Dear anon, We all have to make the best of what we are given in this life. You have been given a far tougher hand to deal with than the vast majority of people. You are dealing with it in the best way you can, taking into account the feelings of as many other people concerned as you can. There is a limit to what any one person can do to make things right, however wonderful that person is. It seems to me that you are doing a pretty good job in the circumstances, so go easy on yourself. :) Love, Noreen |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Murray MacLeod Date: 09 May 10 - 06:56 PM Gina: no dependent children : thumbs up dependent children : thumbs down simples. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Noreen Date: 09 May 10 - 06:57 PM Would that the world were so simple, Murray! |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Murray MacLeod Date: 09 May 10 - 07:10 PM the world is that simple , Noreen. all I am saying is that if the overwhelming compulsion has been kept in abeyance for so long, then it can wait a couple more years before realisation, until the kids are out of the way. they will still have to deal with it, of course, but at least outwith the unavoidable peer pressure of their schoolmates. all of which may be (and I sincerely hope is) totally irrelevant to the case of Guest anon, of course. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 09 May 10 - 07:31 PM No-one can ever say when this will overwhelm them and how long they can 'keep a lid on it' before it spills open. I was lucky. It came totally out after my daughter had finished school but there is a little granddaughter who has not had the life she would have had with her granddad because I took the path I did. I see her. I 'male drag' to see her. But I do not see her as much as I would like nor spend the time with them I would wish to because of having to be as others need me to be for them whilst there. I make no judgements at all for those who could not wait. I am not in their shoes and am grateful I am not. You would not sih it on anyone. But you should also not judge what they have had to do unless you have been there yourself. Even thn you can only judge yourself. It's really not so simple. Die or live is all that is left for some. I respects totally what you are saying about the ridicule for the children. Try not to blame the transperson for that though. It's the ones doing the bullying who are in the wrong. Sensure them. Please try not to judge that which you cannot have a clue about. It's not simples at all sadly anon |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Dame Pattie Smith EPNS Date: 09 May 10 - 08:15 PM Hiya Gina, How you doing? I haven't seen you for quite a few years. Would you like to do a gig at Llantrisant Folk Club next year? Just email me at the address you know, it would be great to have you again, we can work something out. XX Pat |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Howard Jones Date: 10 May 10 - 03:49 AM I guess Pat's post answers Dick's original question, which has rather been forgotten in the way this thread has (rather interestingly) developed (which was not how I feared it might at first). To Anon - don't be too hard on yourself. We all have to make choices in life, and sometimes these can hurt people close to us. Your choice was more difficult than most. Only you and the people close to you can judge. |
Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: selby Date: 10 May 10 - 05:31 AM Does the question matter surely the person inside is a happier person and the person you see is the person you always saw only in different plumage, if you where their friend then you will be their friend now if you admifed their skill then you will now etc. At the end of the day booking for folk clubs is a lottery you can book acts that are deemed to be brilliant and nobody turns up or vica versa so to sum up enjoy life it is not a dress rehersal |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |