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'House' instruments kept at the pub!

Dave the Gnome 22 Apr 10 - 07:34 AM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Apr 10 - 07:46 AM
SteveMansfield 22 Apr 10 - 08:09 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Apr 10 - 08:26 AM
treewind 22 Apr 10 - 08:38 AM
GUEST,erbert 22 Apr 10 - 08:41 AM
GUEST,erbert 22 Apr 10 - 08:43 AM
Jack Campin 22 Apr 10 - 08:56 AM
GUEST,FloraG 22 Apr 10 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,erbert 22 Apr 10 - 09:45 AM
Tim Leaning 22 Apr 10 - 01:08 PM
Tattie Bogle 22 Apr 10 - 01:19 PM
Bernard 22 Apr 10 - 01:43 PM
Tim Leaning 22 Apr 10 - 04:06 PM
Commander Crabbe 22 Apr 10 - 06:00 PM
Folkiedave 22 Apr 10 - 06:03 PM
PHJim 22 Apr 10 - 06:38 PM
beeliner 22 Apr 10 - 07:11 PM
Jack Campin 22 Apr 10 - 07:47 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Apr 10 - 03:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Apr 10 - 03:42 AM
Little Robyn 23 Apr 10 - 07:24 AM
mandotim 23 Apr 10 - 08:16 AM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Apr 10 - 05:22 PM
Roger the Skiffler 24 Apr 10 - 04:36 AM
GUEST,Bardan 24 Apr 10 - 07:56 AM
Jack Campin 24 Apr 10 - 08:21 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 24 Apr 10 - 09:11 PM
GUEST,The Shambles 24 Apr 10 - 09:19 PM
Jack Campin 25 Apr 10 - 04:38 AM
VirginiaTam 25 Apr 10 - 04:58 AM
mandotim 25 Apr 10 - 05:35 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Apr 10 - 05:40 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 25 Apr 10 - 07:13 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Apr 10 - 04:12 PM
scouse 26 Apr 10 - 08:46 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 26 Apr 10 - 09:04 AM
Jack Campin 26 Apr 10 - 09:06 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Apr 10 - 09:10 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 26 Apr 10 - 11:46 AM
Jack Campin 26 Apr 10 - 12:26 PM
GUEST,Guest 26 Apr 10 - 03:42 PM
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Subject: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:34 AM

An aside on another thread got me thinking. The post said that Sandy Bell's in Edinburgh kept a house guitar, mandolin and violin for anyone to borrow if they wanted. Our club, Swinton, has a 'house' guitar which we are happy to lend out.

Do a lot of clubs or sessions do this? Is it a good idea? What instruments would it work with - Strings, percussion? What would it not work with - Whistles, mouth organs? Has anyone doing this ever been really peased they have done so? Or really regretted it?

One true story from Swinton. A young man came in for the first time on a singers night. I asked if he would like to do a spot. He replied he would but had left his anglo concertina at home. I grinned and mentioned that was my instrument and I had it with me. He went to the bar 10 minutes later never to be seen again. I will never know why!

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:46 AM

Instruments that require being placed in the mouth or other orifices would need to be disinfected! :-)


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 08:09 AM

Instruments that require being placed in the mouth or other orifices would need to be disinfected! :-)

Amen to that - I never lend any of my wind instruments to anyone I wouldn't kiss on the mouth - although if (say) Mike McGoldrick asked to borrow a whistle I would probably gladly hand it over without holding him to the second part of the bargain :)

As regards David's anglo player, his bluff was called and he did a runner. You'll never know whether your absconding anglo player felt that what he heard in those ten minutes he stayed for was far above, or far below, the expectations he had of the evening and his possibile contribution to it.

If I'm going into a club or session I don't know I'll often leave the instruments in the car until I've sussed out the standard, vibe, repertoire etc., rather than getting trapped in a situation it's a good deal harder to escape from once you've plonked the whistles, flutes and concertina on the table.

To return to the OP I'd guess a spare guitar in standard tuning would be a good thing to have to lend out. If you start to think about going beyond that you'd have to transport a whole music shop every week (for example would you carry a house EC, an anglo and a duet?) And judging by the general consensus of this ongoing thread, a house bodhran might also be useful, because you could then instantly eject anyone who wanted to borrow it ....


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 08:26 AM

a house bodhran might also be useful, because you could then instantly eject anyone who wanted to borrow it

LOL :-D

How about a house bodhran with a loose rubber 'skin' :-)

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: treewind
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 08:38 AM

Many Irish pubs have (used to have) a "house box" behind the bar, typically an old Hohner or Paolo Soprani B/C.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear of a Suffolk pub with a 1-row C melodeon in residence either, though I can't think of a known example.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 08:41 AM

one of my locals has a playable guitar ready for use,
and an upright double bass.

erbert


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 08:43 AM

and how annoying was that fad for corporate pub chain interior designers
to buy up thousands of second-hand vintage instruments
to bolt to pub walls and ceilings as 'atmospheric old world ambience' decorations ?

probably rendering most of them permanently unrepairable and useless
and doomed to being chucked in a skip when time for the next 'themed'
redecoration.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 08:56 AM

Whistles aren't much of a problem since the air all goes one way and you can run them under a tap if you want. Moothies are much more of an issue, since you suck on them and they have more weensy little crevices for beasties to lurk and breed in.

Wood is all germicidal to some extent, so wooden flutes, whistles and recorders are less risky than plastic ones.

Melodeons are probably worse than whistles, on the same principle that says the greatest germ hazard in a toilet is the tap in the sink. Maybe pub melodeons ought to be fitted with toilet roll holders.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 09:30 AM

The Barge pub in Gillingham has a large collection of instruments. It does a performance folk night each Monday and some open stage evenings during the week.
I've often thought when we have a booking there to not take any instruments along but to go round the room using each instrument in turn - but so far I have not been brave enough.
Landlord Tim is a mandolin player - and likes his folk music. If you are in North kent it is worth checking out - and has a web site for whats on.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 09:45 AM

and the least said about that friggin worldwide chain of "Hard Rock Cafe" vintage instrument memorabilia mauseleums..


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:08 PM

Ahem!
Pubs with pianos anyone?


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:19 PM

There was a whole other thread about pubs with playable pianos, Tim.
The Royal Oak in Edinburgh did have a house bodhran, but no beater to go with it, so maybe got played with some sharp instrument?


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:43 PM

"a house bodhran might also be useful, because you could then instantly eject anyone who wanted to borrow it"

Pedantic point here... you wouldn't actually need to have one! Although they are very handy for handing round crisps and nuts...

I'll get me coat...


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:06 PM

"There was a whole other thread about pubs with playable pianos, Tim."
Still is I think.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 06:00 PM

The "First Inn Last Out" in Whitby has a house guitar (Tuesday Nights and first Saturday of the month Open Singarounds).

Those without an instrument who want to borrow it are asked for a small donation towards its upkeep (new strings etc). I check it over and do any necessary work every now and then.

The old "Tap and Spile" (Now "The Station") also used to have a house guitar which was an Eko Ranger Six. I haven't seen it since the new owners took over but it may still be available.

CC


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 06:03 PM

I know a pub with a house music stand!


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: PHJim
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 06:38 PM

On this side of the pond there was a record shop called The Country Music Store on Danforth Ave. in Toronto that had a couple of house guitars for people who dropped in unprepared for their weekly jams. The store is no longer, but someone told me that the jam is still going on somewhere on the Danforth.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: beeliner
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:11 PM

Instruments that require being placed in the mouth or other orifices would need to be disinfected!

Which musical instruments are placed in other orifices?

On second thought, never mind, I don't even wanna know.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:47 PM

I can't find the image now, but I have seen a picture of a life-sized and very realistic Latin American cock-and-balls-shaped pottery ocarina. Guess where you blew it.

It just occurred to me that with present-day casting technology it would be quite easy to make these from life. Any folk club could then immortalize visiting male performers in playable form:

"You want a low B flat? Where do we keep the Bruce McGregor?"


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 03:22 AM

There was a custom in rural Ireland, still referred to around here as the 'coore' (can't find the Irish spelling - something like cuird), of house visiting - calling on neighbours in the evening, after the work was over.
During these visits, songs were sung, stories told, news exchanged and, where those concerned were that way inclined, music was played.
The houses where the latter was the case, known as 'céilí' houses, often kept a spare instrument to save visitors having to carry their own over.
Television put a stop to all that of course, except among a handful of elderly die-hards; we know it was occasionally still happening in the early 1970s.
There is a townland a few miles from here named Coore which (coincidentally I think) up to a few years ago was renowned for music song and dance, which took place every Sunday night in Gleesons Bar - all gone now, alas.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 03:42 AM

Which musical instruments are placed in other orifices?

How about this?

We know everything on Mudcat :-)

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Little Robyn
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 07:24 AM

20 years ago we visited Oliver's Bar in Ardara (with Packie Byrne) and they had a wall covered in spare instruments. And if you said, oh, I play fiddle and that one is being used, they would go upstairs and find another one!
Are they still there, I wonder?
Robyn


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: mandotim
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 08:16 AM

The Wilkes Head, a small pub in Leek, Staffordshire has a fair collection of instruments. They can also provide a stage, with or without a marquee, a massive PA system, full lighting rig and just about any sort of backing band you require, up to and including an 18 piece swing orchestra. It's a pub that takes music very seriously!


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 05:22 PM

I know a 'Boogie Shack' that has half a dozen drum kits on display!


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 04:36 AM

My local jazz & blues club has a full drum kit donated by a local dealer. Some players still prefer to bring their own, or at least their own snare drum & favourite cymbal, but on jam nights they only need to bring sticks and can catch the last train!

RtS


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 07:56 AM

I was in a pub in edinburgh a while back and they had a house fiddle. Unfortunately they didn't seem to have house rosin which made playing a bit of a challenge.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:21 AM

If that was Sandy Bells, the rosin is on the shelf above the musicians' table beside the TV.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:11 PM

See the ludicrous suggestion last month from LACORS (Local Authorities Co-ordinators of Regulatory Services) that the provision of drums, brass instruments or bagpipes should be a potential criminal offence unless licensed?

http://www.lacors.gov.uk/lacors/ContentDetails.aspx?id=23111

This is not a joke.

This suggestion was made in a public consultation to a Government proposal that the provision of musical instruments should no longer be licensable as Entertainment Facilities when the the performance of live music itself was exempt under the existing exemption for music that is incidental.

Currently for example: the actual playing of piano provided in a pub could benefit from the incidental exemption. However, this exemption cannot work as the provision of the instrument itself is licensable as an Entertainment Facility.

The current Government introduced into entertainment licensing legislation, the concept Entertainment Facilities but did not seem to notice this problem and introduced it in full knowledge that it was intended to make licensable the provision of anything to enable the public to entertain themselves in music and dancing.

This measure descriminates against live music and dancing as it applies ONLY to this and NOT to the provision of a pool table for example, to enable the public to entertain themselves in indoor sports.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:19 PM

>If that was Sandy Bells, the rosin is on the shelf above the musicians' table beside the TV.<

BTW - the provision of a TV to show live sport - is not a licensable Entertainment Facility and pubs are exempt from needing any form of additional entertainment licensing permission to show this to any size of audience.

However this would be required of a lone fiddler in need of the rosin (certainly in England and Wales anyway).


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 04:38 AM

No such requirement in Scotland.

I've never heard of a set of "house bagpipes", has anybody?


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 04:58 AM

The houses where the latter was the case, known as 'céilí' houses, often kept a spare instrument to save visitors having to carry their own over.
Television put a stop to all that of course, except among a handful of elderly die-hards; we know it was occasionally still happening in the early 1970s.
There is a townland a few miles from here named Coore which (coincidentally I think) up to a few years ago was renowned for music song and dance, which took place every Sunday night in Gleesons Bar - all gone now, alas.


Jim - you make me long for those days. Wonder if I can replicate it when we retire to Kent?

I think the Good Intent in Rochester Kent has a guitar behind the bar.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:35 AM

Without being maudlin; I have a large and diverse collection of instruments, and I intend to leave a number of them to a particular pub in my will, with a condition that they are made available for people to play; especially young people.
Tim


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:40 AM

The GI has an old Landola, which could do with a visit to Rodgers! Curiously, when there was a house guitar in the Man of Kent just down the road, it, too, was a Landola, in even more need of Rodgersing.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:13 AM

LACORS is concerned that the definition of entertainment facilities is very broad, and that in order to avoid confusion (especially about the definition of incidental music), the revised Guidance should be particularly detailed in its explanation of the points below.

It should be made clear to operators that unamplified instruments capable of producing loud music are very unlikely to be capable of making music that falls within the definition of incidental music.
Guidance to operators and musicians should make it very clear that, for example, if musical instruments are used in a way that goes beyond incidental music and into a form of music that would in fact require a permission for regulated entertainment, those instruments will not fall within the entertainment facilities exemption.

We also note that the draft statutory instrument refers to "…anything to be used to enable a musical instrument to be played without amplification" and again, the Guidance should explicitly refer to unamplified musical instruments, in order to provide clarity for licensing authorities, operators and performers.
The issue of numbers of instruments should also be covered by the revised Guidance, in order to make it clear that music involving multiple instruments is very unlikely to fall within the incidental music exemption.

The revised Guidance should continue to refer to existing DCMS Guidance on incidental music, but it is also very important that the revised Guidance reproduces the broader advice and positive examples of incidental music issued by the live music working party formed by the Musicians' Union, the British Beer & Pub Association, DCMS, LACORS and the LGA.

Finally, the Guidance should set out "negative" examples of instruments that are unlikely to be capable of producing incidental music, e.g. bagpipes, drums, brass instruments and so on that would then not be exempt, in order to provide clarity for operators and performers as well as local authority officers (and others with an enforcement role under the Licensing Act 2003).


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 04:12 PM

Actually, an unambiguous statue would be a step forward beyond "guidance" which does not actually affect the meaning of the Act and will be irrelevant shouldthere be a prosecution.

All unamplified instruments should be exempt, as they are in teh "Morris" exemption.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: scouse
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 08:46 AM

Up in Mulligans in Amsterdam the House Guitar is a lovely Suzuki three S's it's glorious. Be even better with new strings.
As Aye,
Phil.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 09:04 AM


Amendment of Schedule 1 to the Licensing Act 2003

2. After paragraph 18 of Schedule 1 to the Licensing Act 2003, add—

"Entertainment facilities
19 The following are not be regarded as the provision of entertainment facilities within the meaning of this Schedule—
(a) the provision of a musical instrument, or anything to be used to enable a musical instrument to be played without amplification;

(b) the provision of facilities solely for the purpose of a performance of live music of the kind described in paragraph 7 of this Schedule.".


As you can see from the above, the proposed change to the legislation only applies to an the existing statue [paragraph 7 of this Schedule] which is already ambiguous and currently littered with far too much 'guidance'.

Music incidental to certain other activities
7         The provision of entertainment consisting of the performance of live music or the playing of recorded music is not to be regarded as the provision of regulated entertainment for the purposes of this Act to the extent that it is incidental to some other activity which is not itself—
(a) a description of entertainment falling within paragraph 2, or
(b) the provision of entertainment facilities"


The LACORS submission refers to:

The revised Guidance should continue to refer to existing DCMS Guidance on incidental music, but it is also very important that the revised Guidance reproduces the broader advice and positive examples of incidental music issued by the live music working party formed by the Musicians' Union, the British Beer & Pub Association, DCMS, LACORS and the LGA.

However the so-called working party 'guidance' referred to is rendered out-of-date by the proposed change to the legislation, with its reference to "amplification". This guidance, with its reference to exempt band and orchestra performances does not make it clear that only music from non-amplified instruments can qualify as an exempt performance of incidental live music.

LACORS (without their working partners this time) then go even further in their submission, by wishing to rule out qualification for multiple non-amplified instruments and certain individual non-amplified instruments. So quite what instruments these exempt bands and orchestras are allowed to be playing is uncertain.

Perfomances of multiple air-guitar - perhaps?


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 09:06 AM

an unambiguous statue would be a step forward beyond "guidance"

I am imagining something like the Stone Guest from Don Giovanni, sitting at the back of the bar in readiness to drag bodhran players and singers of the Wild Rover off to flaming sulphureous damnation accompanied by fortissimo chords of D minor.

The Sandy Bells guitar is functional but not in the league of that Suzuki. It started life as a 12-string but now has 6. Guitarists seem to adjust to it okay. The fiddle is in a case marked with hazard warning tape which seems to be appropriate, though again any decent fiddler can get it to work adequately.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 09:10 AM

The other thing we kept at the club for a while were ear protectors:-) They were never used but we had some close calls...

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 11:46 AM

http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/4275466.Weymouth_and_Portland_bar_staff_told_to_wear_ear_plugs/

By Miriam Phillips

BAR staff in Weymouth and Portland's live music venues may have to wear ear plugs after a council ruling that has been dubbed as 'health and safety gone mad'.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 12:26 PM

...for sound levels above 85dB.

Hardly unreasonable.


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Subject: RE: 'House' instruments kept at the pub!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 03:42 PM

Anyone want to borrow my nose-flute?


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