BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Genie
Date: 08 May 10 - 01:42 AM

Bill D, yes, many polls do sort of "pull" for one kind of answer or another by the way they are wording, but not all polls are equally slanted in that way.
It is possible to word a poll objectively or neutrally, or at least come close. And in general I think those done by nonpartisan, nonideological research organizations come closest.

What's important, though, is to look carefully at the questions asked and the respondent sampling methods used when trying to interpret what the results mean.

In the case of the Arizona law, I'd want to make sure those being polled clearly understood what the law allows and demands before asserting that most Americans "support the law."

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: mousethief
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:08 PM

People turning other people in to the police. What famous 20th century country does that remind me of? Let me think. Let me think.

I've got it! The Soviet Union!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:04 PM

..."in the minority so much of the time?"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:01 PM

..."in the minority all the time".   So the poster believes perhaps that the Republicans are in the majority in the Senate and House.

Anything you say, Mr. Van Winkle.   You may possibly want to wake up soon.   You seem to have missed the 2008 election.

And Sheriff "Arpio" (sic).   The poster's proofreading skills mirror his grasp of logic.   It might be an idea to actually read what he writes before he posts it. Might possibly save some him from some embarrassingly stupid errors.

Mr Arpaio was recently under investigation--may still be.   The mayor of Phoenix, Phil Gordon, on 4 April 2008, requested the US Attorney General to investigate "his pattern of ....discriminatory harassment, improper stops, searches and arrests".    Ah yes, Mr. Arpaio is a true role model for law enforcement officers.

His response to "discriminatory harassment...."?:   "Arrest them all". This philosophy is not exactly constitutional--unless of course the poster prefers the constitution of the Third Reich.   Perhaps he does. That would explain a good bit.

So sorry the poster doesn't recognize the WSJ as a "leftist rag".   Can't understand what the problem might be.

Point is: a sheriff with 123 miles of border with Mexico, and who already is in the forefront of stopping illegal immigration, might just possibly know more about the problem than the poster does--especially what it would be like to have rabid anti-immigration fools...uh, I mean sterling citizens... threatening his men with lawsuits every time they did not apprehend somebody the citizen fingered as an illegal immigrant.

Not of course that the poster would be one of the above-cited fools.   In the time-honored phrase of Mr. Cheney, I can't say that.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:42 PM

It's hard to find a poll that doesn't 'load' its questions to guarantee the answer they want to wave about.

Even some of my favorite lefty TV programs do that... *sigh*

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: mousethief
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:39 PM

That would be comforting to the Republicans under GWB.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,Calico
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:33 PM

I remember other polls showing that a majority of Americans would vote to overturn most of the bill of rights if they could.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:18 PM

"The latest Fox News Poll out today shows...

I'd really curious how **Fox News** worded their questions.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: mousethief
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:00 PM

Ron Davies: Wall Street Journal a well known "leftist" paper? That's a hoot!

I rather think that was meant as sarcasm.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: DougR
Date: 07 May 10 - 03:51 PM

Ron Davies: Wall Street Journal a well known "leftist" paper? That's a hoot!

I read the article in the WSJ. Suppose the same paper printed an op-ed peace written by Sheriff Joe Arpio, who supports the Bill. Would you believe what he wrote?

The latest Fox News Poll out today shows that 61% of Americans polled support the Bill. Note I wrote Americans, not just Arizonans.

Doesn't it get a bit tiresome being in the minority so much of the time?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 10 - 11:26 PM

But no, Bobert, as you know, the main reason for the decline in illegal immigrants recently is the economic decline in the US. After all, they don't come here just since they have an urge to travel.

As Art, I think it was, said: if there were good jobs in Sonora or wherever, they'd stay home.





Unless of course you were just jerking the chain of the illustrious Mr. Rig.   And I know you wouldn't do anything like that.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: mousethief
Date: 06 May 10 - 11:23 PM

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 10 - 11:21 PM

"Pobrecito"   (no i, in case you wondered)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 10 - 11:20 PM

"how many he misses..."

Not as many by a long shot as the poster--who still hasn't learned to read. Pobrecito.i

Situation normal.

The paper was the well-known leftist rag, the Wall St. Journal.   As somebody who could read more than just what he wanted to see would have noticed.

Point is:   the sheriff has enough to do without zealous citizens second-guessing him and telling him what to do every step of the way.

That is perhaps the main problem with this wonderful law:   it takes away the discretion of the police officer to judge whether a person should be apprehended or not--since if he does not comply with the would-be Dick Tracy citizen, he could be sued.

As Genie has pointed out, it's a bonanza for trial lawyers, a classic mess for everybody else.

Not that the poster, blinded by the "Brown Peril" should be expected to see this.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: mousethief
Date: 06 May 10 - 10:28 PM

Desperate attempt to curry favor with the MOR racist whites when the Republicans are out of power? Just guessin'.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Bobert
Date: 06 May 10 - 10:20 PM

I read recently that the number of illegals has dropped off considerably over the last 3 years??? Why the law now if illegal immigration is in decline??? Why not 3 years ago???

(There wasn't a black Democrat in the White House, Boberdz...)

Oh??? I get it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 May 10 - 09:54 PM

'The sheriff of Pina County, which has a 123-mile border with Mexico... "My deputies have referred more illegals to the Border Patrol and ICE than any other state or local law enforcement agency in Arizona."'

             Of course he has. That's were most of them are coming over, and that's why the people of Arizona wanted the law.

             I wonder how many he misses. I wonder why the New York Times publishes an op-ed letter from a sheriff in Arizona. Can anybody spell Schumer?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 10 - 08:44 PM

"either the Sheriff's office....would investigate."

Precisely.

And this is exactly why this law is considered a disaster by quite a few law enforcement professionals--despite any rabid supporters among the good citizens of Arizona.

The sheriff's office has enough to do already, thank you.

The sheriff of Pina County, which has a 123-mile border with Mexico, had a very interesting column in the Wall St Journal 5 May 2010 (yesterday).   "My deputies have referred more illegals to the Border Patrol and ICE than any other state or local law enforcement agency in Arizona."

And what does he think of this wonderful new "tool" for the police?

It's a total loser.

It puts his men in a no-win situation.

Reason:   either they anger a citizen or legal immigrant by asking to see papers or stand accused of non-feasance when they don't (ask).



It's also interesting that there were Hispanic groups favoring Republicans as recently as 2008. But now at least one which calls itself "Somos Republicans" is outraged at this obvious profiling of Hispanics.    How many votes for supporters of this law will come from this group in the fall?   Take a guess.

After all, anybody who doesn't think that Hispanic appearance will be a long step towards establishing "reasonable suspicion" should start thinking.

Especially since, as I pointed out earlier, if the policeman declines to act, he can now be sued by the stalwart citizen.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 May 10 - 03:01 AM

I betcha' some of them even turn in their 'cargo', if they could collect a reward, as well!.
Just the same, 'Maintain'..and being as I doubt Ebbers is involved with that mess, I doubt if anyone will be turning her in....unless to win an award for her wonderful whole wheat bread!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: DougR
Date: 05 May 10 - 07:56 PM

GFS: I assume if the neighbor made a formal complaint, either the Sheriff's office or the police would investigate. Many, many, neighborhoods in towns in Arizona contain houses that Coyotes rent and dump their loads of illegals in them. Then they are transported to other states or are assimilated in the local population.

It is not uncommon for either law enforcement agency or ICE, raids such a house and arrests 25 or 30 illegals at one time. Sometimes the Coyotes hold the illegals for ransom which relatives in the country from whence they came are expected to pay. This is after the Coyote has already collected a sizable fee to him to be transported to Arizona.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 May 10 - 02:25 AM

Ebbers: "What happens when your neighbor, disgruntled or not, calls the police and says that s/he believes that her/his neighbor is selling drugs and that s/he believes that lots of the Mexican-appearing visitors are illegals? What are police required to do, given that scenario? "

If you went through the 60's, it could have been long hair. Where have you been, all these years?..People do it all the time...their called CI's, narcs, finks, informers..rats. What;s new?..and what does that have to do with the price of eggs???

Remember, "Maintain"?....especially if you were doing something ILLEGAL..or appeared to be doing something ILLEGAL???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Genie
Date: 04 May 10 - 03:06 PM

Oh, and I just noticed: I got #200!   (Neener neener)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Genie
Date: 04 May 10 - 03:05 PM

Just an aside (not to derail this thread onto the issue of villas and environmental sustainability),

here's a little more on Al Gore's new $8 million villa:
Gores Buy Montecito Villa

and maybe the rest of the story?
Ecorazzi.com on how the Gores equipped their Tennessee home

Most of the cost of this estate is no doubt the property itself (high-cost real estate with ocean view), not the house itself or the pools, etc.   As to how big a carbon footprint such an estate leaves, that depends a lot on how much of the home (and pools, etc.) is being used at any one time, what kinds of energy sources and conservation devices they use, what kinds of landscaping methods they use, etc.   And it sounds like they bought an existing house, so the 9 bathrooms may not have been their idea. However, if you are entertaining guests in a large house, having bathrooms on all floors and adjacent to the various rooms (5 bedrooms, a dining room, a rec room or exercise room) and next to the pool doesn't seem unreasonable. Bathrooms aren't using energy or water when they're not in use.   
The issue of environmental stewardship has more to do with how you use and maintain your property than with how much you own.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Genie
Date: 04 May 10 - 02:34 PM

Is Gore's "mansion" just a private residence? Or does it perhaps also contain offices (as Bill Gates's Redmond, WA "mansion" does)?
I agree it sounds bad (though a $1 million house in some places in California would be be a $200 house in other locations), but I'd need more details.

E.g., how much of that $8 million price tag was for things like state-of-the-art solar panels and weatherization, maybe a rooftop garden, etc.?   

And what makes you think Gore needs or wants to hire low-wage laborers to mow the lawn?

(Not sure what this has to do with the Arizona law or the issue of a national ID card, anyway.)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: pdq
Date: 04 May 10 - 02:13 PM

Instead, perhaps I should have mentioned that Montecito is home to Oprah Winfrey, Rob Lowe, Avril Lavigne and several Hiltons.

Al Gore's little heart is all a'twitter. He has finally "arrived".

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 May 10 - 01:52 PM

could you imagine having Barbara Streisand and BaBa Walters as neighbors?

Good grief ... you'd think Al Gore would have more sense than that.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: pdq
Date: 04 May 10 - 01:46 PM

Another item that people don't see coming is the death of the Middle Class.

Al Gore just bought a mansion in Montecito (CA, near Santa Barbara) for over 8 million dollars.

He will be neighbor to Barbara Streisand, Barbara Walters, and to countless other rich "celebrities" and the elite.

California is begining to look like much of the world, including India, Arab oil-rich states, and much of established Europe. Mexico also has an "elite" minority who own almost everything and the "peons" who do all the gunt labor and own almost nothing.

I wonder how much Al Gore will pay the Mexicans who mow his nice lawn?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Genie
Date: 04 May 10 - 01:22 PM

I think that's a huge contributor to the problem, Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 May 10 - 01:03 PM

Mexicans have been crossing the borders (illegally) for years.

It seems to me this became an issue when the violence started .... and that is directly aligned with the big $money$ to be made with drug smuggling ... when the general populace of the U.S. developed a taste for illegal drugs .... demand grew and so did the profits to be made in importing of drugs, and with those profits came violence.

I say the violence in marketing drugs is the real issue, not illegal immigrants.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Genie
Date: 04 May 10 - 12:55 PM

C'mon, GfS, let's not be too specious here. LOL

You obviously can't require ONLY illegal aliens to show papers, now can you?   (Think about it.) : )

And does the new health care law say anything about carrying your health ins. papers WITH you?

Whether and to what extent "affirmative action" is comparable (in reverse) to racial profiling is a topic for another thread, I think, because a lot depends on how and to what extent minorities (and non-minorities such as women) are actively recruited or even given "extra credit" in hiring, etc.   Still, in the absence of "affirmative action," de facto racial, ethnic and gender "profiling" was the norm for decades (centuries?).

Since when do government work programs put people in jobs they're not qualified for? (Unless, of course, you include things like hiring recent law school graduates to replace highly experienced attorneys in the DOJ
because the latter weren't tied to your administration's political ideology, or appointing a former Arabian horse judging commissioner to head FEMA.)

You say you want manufacturing brought back home, you decry the power of "for profit, at all costs") corporations, unnecessary international shipping of goods, the constitution being "shredded," etc., but your solution is to get "big government" out of the picture?   How are we, the people, to control the excesses and abuses of those who are abusing the law, commerce, manufacturing, etc., except by way of our government officials (which, except for the Federal judges, we elect and can remove from office)?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 May 10 - 12:42 PM

What happens when your neighbor, disgruntled or not, calls the police and says that s/he believes that her/his neighbor is selling drugs and that s/he believes that lots of the Mexican-appearing visitors are illegals? What are police required to do, given that scenario?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Genie
Date: 04 May 10 - 12:31 PM

Rig, I agree. If you don't control that boarder, he's likely to eat you out of house and home. ; )

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Genie
Date: 04 May 10 - 12:28 PM

GfS, I recognize some of your banter as tongue-in-cheek (plus I agree with some of what you've been saying).

My skinny dipping scenario, though, was not really so far-fetched.   We have two main "clothing optional" beaches near Portland (as do some other cities such as San Diego), and there was a time I used to frequent them.   It wasn't a good idea to take your valuables with you to the beach itself (not even money, because there were no booths selling anything), and unless you were the driver (we usually carpooled) you may not have left things like your credit cards and ID in the car. Vehicles parked in the lot or on the side of the country road were routinely broken into.

Now, some men's bathing trunks have places to safely stash an ID card, but even if you're not completely au naturel, most women's bathing suits don't.    The kind of law some are proposing would leave you vulnerable to harassment, major disruption of your day, and possible arrest and incarceration just for not having documentation of your legal residency with you at a time like that. I used the "skinny dipping" scenario because that one doesn't even offer the remedy of sewing a special little pocket into your Speedo to hold your "papers."

BTW, I keep hearing on radio that Arizona law ALREADY permits law enforcement to ask for proof of legal immigrant status or US citizenship if you are stopped for some other criminal code (and maybe even traffic law) infraction.    The new law changes it to
1) law enforcement MUST (not "may") ask for such proof and can be sued by anyone if they don't
and
2) this applies whenever there is "lawful contact" between law enforcement and an individual - not just when there is probable cause to suspect that a crime has been or is about to be committed.

If the law is currently being "tweaked," we'll judge the final product when it goes into force.   But as it stands, I think there is great cause for concern about undue racial and ethnic profiling and about violation of the 4th Amendment.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 10 - 11:54 AM

Art, According to the law as I understand it, (now), and because of an amendment to it, they can run the check only if it is in conjunction with another 'offense'...however, as we all know, you(we), can always be pulled over, or stopped for virtually any excuse, for them to run a check.

Hey, I don't like this anymore than any of us..but Arizona is being choked with crime, from a flood of them coming in, whether looking for work, or smuggling drugs,..or whatever. SOMETHING had to be done, and the federal government, under both administrations, have fallen down on their job.
As I've posted before, should we be allowed to pick one law WE get to ignore?........................................(and I'm sure we all do)....with impunity??

Hey Art,..Respectfully,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 May 10 - 08:08 AM

GfS, I ordinarily scroll past your posts, but something caught my eye and I think you have missed a point here. Nobody at all is questioning that illegal immigrants should be subject to deportation or whatever other legal sanctions are applicable. The issue is Arizona's new law which permits any law enforcement officer to require anyone with whom they come into official contact to prove that they are not an illegal immigrant, and allows them to be taken into custody until acceptable proof is provided.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 May 10 - 07:38 AM

And I in turn am sorry I misquoted you.   It was not "kindergarten" but "first grade". I can't tell you what a difference that makes.

Nice try, Doug.

Good to know you got enough sleep and your temper has cooled a bit.

Who knows--perhaps you've even learned that if you lose your temper, you automatically lose the argument--a lesson it seems hard for several Mudcatters to master.   Congratulations to you.



But we're still waiting for the direct quote from the new Arizona law that indicates the lawman must be arresting you "for another crime" in order to ask to see your papers under this new law.

Seems like you're joining some other illustrious Mudcatters in the rather widespread malady of seeking out the least sea -worthy vessel you can find, then lashing yourself to the mast.

I quoted you directly--and accurately-- on the "for another crime" issue.

So far, your smokescreen is quite impressive--but not quite good enough.

Where is that quote from the law about "for another crime"?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: DougR
Date: 04 May 10 - 01:39 AM

Ron Davies: I read your last post, and I, obviously, caused offence when I cast aspersions on your ability to read. That was unfair of me and most unrealistic. If you can type, reading is not a problem at all!

I do apologize if I caused you anguish. Upon reflection, my suggestion that you cannot read was most assuredly unfair. Since you obviously CAN read, the problem you have with the subject under discussion must be comprehension.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 10 - 01:25 AM

Not when you have citizens out of work!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: mousethief
Date: 04 May 10 - 01:22 AM

The stupid part of the whole thing is, you don't need to patrol the boarder at all--or at least not much--all you have to do is prosecute illegal employers.

True. But politically impossible.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 10 - 01:10 AM

Rigs, Yup!

Now as long as Mouser is posting how are we supposed to do all this, let me ask you this: Why is it so bad, or wrong, to ask to see an illegal alien's papers, as to his legitimacy in being here, but the same hypocrites think its not so bad for the government to see your health insurance papers???

I think its all out of hand, and YES the government, both state and federal have gotten WAY to intrusive ,and WAY too big, and quite unsustainable.

And as far as the hypocrisy of 'racial profiling', I guess the left don't count affirmative action's racial profiling!..as a double standard!

And what next?..the government telling people where to work, just to keep them employed??..Great! Some one just off food stamps, who has no skills, making guitars at CF Martin?(for example)..just because affirmative action placed him?

Supply and demand, and get the government off people's backs, EXCEPT an eye on corruption...but that's like letting the wolves guard the hen house!

The answer is going to have to lie, in our own personal integrity and morals, of which the bullshitters 'representing' us have shown very little of!..and that is an individual responsibility!

So before we jump off the deep end, choking everyone with stupid laws, FOR THE OTHER GUY, let's look in the mirror, and do the best we can....shit, even make it a little hipper, than profit first, no matter the means!

That is a cultural thing, and can be encouraged through music and the media, possibly churches and schools....and JOBS, not being undercut by illegals!....(among other things, as well)!

Manufacturing should be brought back to OUR shores, and not shipped overseas, for cheaper labor, whose profits only the corporation. The savings is NOT passed on to us, the consumer. Things cost them less to make, but they didn't get any cheaper to buy!

Not only that, we waste a lot of fuel, shipping the crap across the ocean, just so the mega corporations make a bunch more money, while we at home pay higher costs for it, and are out of work!

The federal government is solely to blame for this, by breaking the laws that govern them!!!!!...and still the clowns, on both sides of the aisle keep wanting to shred the Constitution, to suit their own wills...over the rights of 'WE the People". It's now them and us..what's THIS shit?????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 May 10 - 11:35 PM

The stupid part of the whole thing is, you don't need to patrol the boarder at all--or at least not much--all you have to do is prosecute illegal employers. In fact, you could even go to the drug laws and confiscate property. That would pay for a whole lot of boarder enforcement--if you thought you needed it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 10 - 11:32 PM

I know - 'cause taxes are not constitutional. :)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: mousethief
Date: 03 May 10 - 10:58 PM

Interestingly, the people demanding all this patrolling are the same ones that bitch about the size of government, and deficit spending.

They will not be happy until all of their conditions are met:

1. Federal gov't shall receive no income.
2. Federal gov't shall continue to pay our medicare.
3. Federal gov't shall consist entirely of the military, the prison system, and the border patrol. All other duties will devolve to the states.

And then they wonder why the liberals think they're dumb. Can't imagine.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 10 - 10:52 PM

I sometimes think it is not possible that some of the American posters have any idea of how long our borders are, not to mention the kind of terrain and vegetation there is along the way. Just how is the US to be expected to "control its borders"? Do we really want vigilantes patrolling for practically 2000 miles?

And if we accomplish that, we still haven't even begun patrolling the *northern* border. And then there is the border of the West Coast. And the border of the East Coast.

Dang. It just doesn't end. Of course, patrolling will have to be 24/7, so there will be shift changes. Man, we're going to have to import some Mexicans to work on the line when we run out of previously unemployed USians.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 10 - 10:33 PM

Good post, Genie. ...and by the way, your skinny dipping scenario, was a little over the top, as to suggest that you'd have to carry an ID with you even for that!..So I replied as I did. It was only to be a light-hearted reply. Too bad 'others' thought it was meant as anything more than that!

That aside, if the government would control the borders, as the Constitution mandates them to do, ALL of this would not be a problem! A lot of politicians are reluctant to get on board, because they want the Hispanic vote..and for them to actually enforce, or back enforcement of the LAW, as given in the Constitution, they fear they'd lose the vote. This is NOT representation, NOR is it upholding the oath they swore to, when they took office. ALL of those CON MEn should be thrown OUT of office!

Hey, best to you!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 May 10 - 10:08 PM

...what happens when people act from their lizard brains, instead of the superior ones G-d gave 'em.?

             You end up with illegal immigrants for Central America.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: GUEST,SAULGOLDIE
Date: 03 May 10 - 09:43 PM

Perhaps this has already been mentioned--I didn't read the whole thread--but what if the ORIGINAL residents of this land started asking the rest of us to prove that WE belong here?? My people came from Russia, ca 1900. Guess I'd have to "go back," eh? Lookout UK, Germany, China, India, Africa(!) and basically the whole bloody REST OF THE WORLD!!!

This is what happens when people act from their lizard brains, instead of the superior ones G-d gave 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 May 10 - 09:41 PM

Wow! Have you seen this?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/05/03/frum.immigration.education/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 May 10 - 09:28 PM

Doug--


"...kindergarten reading level....."

Temper, temper, little man.



Doug R 29 April 2010 5:50 PM:

"The law states that it is against the law to use racial profiling as an excuse to ask for citizenship papers and that the only way a lawman can ask to see your papers is if he is arresting you for ANOTHER crime".



"arresting you for ANOTHER crime"

In fact, as I recall, you were rather harsh with Genie for not knowing this.

So now it's time for you to give us the exact quote in the law which specifies the requirement "he is arresting you for another crime." Please make sure the "crime" you cite is not an immigration-related crime only.

So far, as indicated by John in Kansas, it appears you are dead wrong on this.



But I'm sure you can clarify the situation.

We're waiting.

Thanks so much.


And I hope you get more sleep.

Obviously for some reason you were out of sorts.

Pobrecito.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
From: Genie
Date: 03 May 10 - 03:02 PM

Gfs,

Crude jokes aside, who is going to hide something the size and shape of a credit card or passport in any bodily orifice?   

If you really had to have your proof of identity and citizenship with you at ALL times, the method would have to be much less cumbersome.    A microchip would be convenient to carry, but lots of us would oppose that for the reasons you mention.

[["Ebbers: The international bankers, and those behind them has wanted chips in everyone, for total control. There are plenty of sites to go into that further...Oh, by the way Ross Perot's company EDT developed them years ago..since the have been 'new breakthroughs'(?)..however, cancer and other health problems have also developed with them..as tests have shown!"]]

None of us wants either the government nor the big corporations to be able to track our every movement.

If it is really important for everyone to be identifiable when needed (even if unconscious or deceased) without being trackable or having their identity stolen, the government should use iris-identification technology -- and pay for the program with tax money (not imposing a financial hardship on already-impoverished people).   Unlike fingerprints, iris recognition does not leave traces of where you've been or where you are now (unless you're being scanned, e.g., by the police).    And unlike passports, ID cards, etc., this type of identification could not be forged. All the law enforcement people would have to do is run your iris scan through a database to see who you are and whether you were a legal resident or not.