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Tech: Posts Sorted in Descending Order

gnu 02 May 10 - 02:08 PM
Joe Offer 05 May 10 - 03:05 PM
JohnInKansas 05 May 10 - 03:33 PM
Bill D 05 May 10 - 03:36 PM
Amos 05 May 10 - 03:41 PM
wysiwyg 05 May 10 - 06:22 PM
JohnInKansas 05 May 10 - 10:25 PM
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Subject: Posts Sorted in Descending Order
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 10 - 02:08 PM

I am wondering why some peeps have trouble loading threads by using the "d".

Apparently, even when using the "d", all the posts of a thread have to load before they can access it. Essentially, there is no difference in clicking the "d" or the entire thread.

Max... can you shed some light on why this happens?


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Subject: Tech: Posts Sorted in Descending Order
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:05 PM

I stole a copy of gnu's message from Max's Mudcat upgrade thread, because gnu's question mystifies me.
    Hi, gnu-
    I haven't been able to duplicate that problem, using a number of
    browsers. It works right for me, every time. The "d" link makes a
    query for posts of that thread to be in descending order, broken into
    groups of 50 - and the link displays only when there are more than 50
    messages in a thread. The "sort descending" link at the top of each
    thread, displays ALL the messages, but in reverse order - it does not
    break the thread into separate pages.
    If things have worked properly and messages are sorted in descending
    order and in groups of 50, all that is loaded is a page with 50
    messages, plus constants like the Google ads and quicklinks menu and
    all the other stuff, plus an index for each page. Generating that page
    is as much a burden on Max's computer as loading an entire page
    (because of the nature of the query), but it does not transmit
    an entire thread's worth of information. So, the transmission and
    reception of a 2,000-message thread is much more than transmission and
    reception of a 50-message thread. The means a significant savings of
    time on a dialup connection.
    How did you get the impression that the entire thread was loading,
    even though you see only 50 messages?
Can somebody who's experienced a problem, please explain?

Just for the benefit of people who haven't seen the little d link, it appears in the Forum Menu for threads with over 50 messages, right next to the number of messages in the thread. It divides the thread into groups of 50 messages, with the most recent message displayed first. Worlds like a charm for me every time.
Also, you'll notice that if there are more than 50 messages in a thread, the number of messages changes into a clickable link, like
321. That link displays the thread in normal order, broken into groups of 50 messages. These are very useful tools, especially for those who have slow Internet connections. And I would hope that people would always use these tools for bandwidth-busting threads like "Mother of All BS Threads."

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Posts Sorted in Descending Order
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:33 PM

No problem observed with the speed of loading, but with DSL the only delays are for the loading of the 789 external links to the "flutter bug" ads in the BS threads. Even that is not often a problem unless one or more of the external links is slow to respond.

I don't use descending order too often, since usually if I have a comment to add it will be to a recent post, and descending sort puts the post box at the opposite end of the page from the posts needing comment. This makes it sort of a PIA to refer to the posts I'm talking about when proofing what I've typed. (And of course it's also inconvenient that you can't look back at the thread to cross-check once you hit Preview.)

A direct link to "last 50" would be better for me than the "d" list, but it's not a big deal.

Loading by 50s and just clicking to the last bunch usually works better for me - but the "d" list might be okay for those who don't bother to think things over before hitting Post (or Preview).

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Posts Sorted in Descending Order
From: Bill D
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:36 PM

""flutter bug" ads"??

Ads, ads? I don't see any ads....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Posts Sorted in Descending Order
From: Amos
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:41 PM

mAYBE THE pOST BOX SHOULD APPEAR AT THE TOP WHEN "D" OR dESCENDING oRDER ARE ACTIVE. And maybe I should stop hitting the GD Capslock key, too....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Posts Sorted in Descending Order
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 May 10 - 06:22 PM

Joe, I remember someone knowledgeable (among the mod crew I think) once explaining that the database has to pull all the posts even to display them by 50's. I mentioned that to gnu, which I guess is the source of his question.

Because I read it during the time period affected by my strokes, I can't recall anything more specific about who said what or what the thread might have been.

???

Of course I'd love to be wrong, but I do recall it being covered.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Tech: Posts Sorted in Descending Order
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 May 10 - 10:25 PM

Bill D -

In the BS section mostly, the cat loads a bunch of ad links at the upper right of the page. These are "linked in" links, and apparently require some sort of "sort and queue" operation.

In IE at least, when one of them finishes loading, the "status" bar at the bottom shows "Done" and the cursor goes to the normal (arrow), but when the next one starts to load the cursor goes back to the "hourglass." Since usually about a dozen "links" get posted, the cursor "flutters" between pointer and hourglass, usually for a few seconds before the page you want can finish loading.

The links that appear seem to be sometimes to remote sites, and sometimes just to "mudcat elsewheres," but in either case it appears to require a query/response to validate(?) the link before it appears, and sometimes there's a significant "hang" when a linked object doesn't answer immediately.

You may be able to eliminate them with some popup blocker settings, so maybe not everybody sees them; but I haven't bothered screwing around with blocking. There's the extremely remote possibility that someday I might see something that would benefit the 'cat if I click it, so I just let them "flit."

John


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