Ireland and the Spanish Civil War

Subject: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 13 May 10 - 10:51 AM

IRELAND AND THE SPANISH CIVIL WAR

In the Irish Republic, the post-Spanish Civil War period was a time when, from what I have read, popular sympathy was generally hostile to the Irish volunteers who had fought against Franco. This will have created a restricted audience for any type of song which favoured the Spanish Republic or those who supported it. Ireland did not have widespread folk clubs such as developed in the UK in the sixties where left wing songs generally received a sympathetic hearing. Recently I have noticed a warm reception for Spanish Civil War songs amongst Irish people - but my experience is very limited and perhaps rather unrepresentative. Could anyone describe the places where Spanish Civil War songs were performed from 1939 up to the present time and what sort of audience there was for such songs? Perhaps they were not performed and have only been discovered recently?

Regards, Geoff

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 18 May 10 - 03:29 PM

See my post under "Songs in English of the Spanish Civil War". Look in the forum. Not much help for what you want, but at least, it refers to the fact that a batch of traveling Irish athletes could sing their way through "Viva La Quince Brigada" in the last yr or 2. Tw

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: mg
Date: 19 May 10 - 03:28 AM

from an earlier Spanish war..

Enniskillen Dragoons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPtXXQXl5oo

oh what is that one...since Johnny lovely Johnny is thrashing the king of Spain..

And there is something about trains coming back from SPain full of wounded.

mg

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 19 May 10 - 11:46 AM

people went from Ireland to Spain to fight on both sides
Yes, nowadays people like Christy Moore and Brian Moore (of Belfast) sing songs like Viva la Quincea Brigada. Joe Mulheron, proprietor of Sandinos Bar in Derry, has rewritten that Johnny Lovely Johnny to make it relate to the Spanish civil war rather than much earlier battles.I think singing these songs at Irish pubs and folk clubs is quite a recent phenomena.

You can find written and filmed accounts of Irish participation in Spanish Civil War, for instance Bob Doyle's autobiography.

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 19 May 10 - 12:33 PM

Geoff

Did you ask Manus O'Riordan? A singer himself, he's surely your best bet re the Republican tradition in Ireland. As you know, there were contemporary parodies and skits written ridiculing O'DUffy's volunteers. How widely they cirulated, I don't know.

I have never heard (nor heard of) any pro-Franco songs in Ireland, as far as I recall. That said, they may have confined themselves to Marian hymns! (I'm only half-joking).

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 19 May 10 - 05:11 PM

I seem to remember an RTE Radio One programme some years ago called "The Last of the Brigadistas" which - if it's in their archive might be of passing interest.

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: LadyJean
Date: 19 May 10 - 11:00 PM

My dad was in Ireland, as a tourist in the thirties. He told me of reading in the papers about Duffy's Brigade, who went to Spain to fight FOR Franco, discovered who they were fighting for and came home almost immediately.

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: GUEST,OLD TIMER
Date: 20 May 10 - 10:29 AM

Came home or sent home because of over-indugence in the local brew ?

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: GUEST,Liam Keyes
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:45 PM

If I had being born then, there was no way that I would have gone to fight in Spain for either Eoin Duffy or Frank Ryan. "Franco's allies were the powerful and wealthy, Frank Ryan's men came from the other side." Eoin Duffy was with the Blueshirts. :The Bishops blessed the Blue Shirts in Dun Laoghaire as they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain. Now, let me see, which pub in Dublin would I have gone into to?

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: GUEST,Liam Keyes
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:49 PM

The more I read about it....the less I think about it.

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: MartinRyan
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:35 AM

Swastika? When?
Dun Laoghaire? When?

Regards

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: Les from Hull
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:29 AM

I believe that Liam is quota Christy Moore's song. Take it up with Christy!

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 12:59 PM

It was a particularly nasty war, as civil wars are prone to be, and some pretty nasty atrocities were carried out by both sides. The regime set up by the winning side able to carry on the brutalityl in the period after the war ended, but that goes with winning. There is no reason to believe the other side would have behaved any better, under Stalinist guidance.

Estimates of those murdered by the victors, during and after the war, range as high as 200,000. Estimates of those killed by the losers range as high as 70,000, including about 6,500 priest, monks, seminarians and nuns.

The Irish volunteers who went to fight on both sides were much the same kind of people, motivated by similar reasons, especially by stories, which were accurate enough, of the terrible things that the other side were doing. My father, a Spanish speaking veteran of the Irish Civil War (on the Republican side) was recruited to fight on the rebel side, Franco's side. After he came back, when World War II started, he joined up to fight in the British Army against the Nazis. Life is complicated, and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

Subject: RE: Ireland and the Spanish Civil War
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:19 PM

Maria De La Rosa, a beautiful song based on a true story, written and performed by Ron Kavana on his album "Alien Alert."

I set out for Spain with a romantic notion
To trace the paths of Irish volunteers
Who had left their homeland to fight and die on foreign soil
In the late '30s, Franco's bloody years

In a sleazy bodega in the back streets of Bilbao
I met a girl with bright green eyes and long red hair
Maria De La Rosa O'Mara sang in Spanish
A version of She Moved Through The Fair

Maria De La Rosa O'Mara
Sing your song one more time
Por favor
Tell us the tale of your dead grandfather
And his part in the Spanish Civil War
Tell us the tale of crazy, noble glory
Finn O'Mara in the Spanish Civil War

Finn O'Mara joined the Basques up near San Sebastian
In the northern campaign of '38
Kept the supply lines open on the border
'Til Barcelona fell and it was all too late

Captured by the Blueshirts somewhere near Lérida
He faced the fascist firing squad that very day
His one last request "Bury me in Basque country
But know I die for freedom, not for Spain."

Maria De La Rosa O'Mara
Sing your song one more time
Por favor
Tell us the tale of your dead grandfather
And his part in the Spanish Civil War
Tell us the tale of crazy, noble glory
Finn O'Mara in the Spanish Civil War