Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: WindhoverWeaver Date: 03 Oct 14 - 03:52 AM The one reference to Franklin is actually in the chorus: "To find the hand of Franklin reaching for the Beaufort Sea". The song also references several other explorers: Kelso, Mackenzie, and David Thompson. A slight connection, whereas Lady Franklin's lament and similar are actually about Franklin and the tragedy. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Teribus Date: 03 Oct 14 - 03:42 AM Think the line actually is: "And through the night, behind the wheel, the mileage clicking west I think upon Mackenzie, David Thompson and the rest Who cracked the mountain ramparts and it did show a path for me To race the roaring Fraser to the sea. Amazed at the location of the ship and how far they had actually travelled - a great deal further on than Baffin Bay mentioned in the song "Lord Franklin" or "Lady Franklin's Lament" - although that could have been due to natural drifting of a raft of ice holding the ship: "In Baffin Bay where the whale-fish blow The fate of Franklin no man may know. The fate of Franklin no tongue can tell Where Franklin along with his sailors do dwell" |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: meself Date: 02 Oct 14 - 09:08 PM "Although the song mentions Franklin, it is actually about a modern person driving (a car or truck?) across Canada and not about the Franklin Expedition and tragedy per se." Yes, but that modern person driving along the highway to his next gig likens himself to "Brave Franklin, MacKenzie, and the rest .... " (Isn't that how the line goes?) |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: JHW Date: 02 Oct 14 - 07:35 PM Canada confirms ship as Erebus |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: WindhoverWeaver Date: 16 Sep 14 - 01:02 PM Interesting that some here have referenced Stan Rogers' Northwest Passage as if it were relevant! Although the song mentions Franklin, it is actually about a modern person driving (a car or truck?) across Canada and not about the Franklin Expedition and tragedy per se. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,sciencegeek Date: 16 Sep 14 - 11:27 AM Regarding one of the search vessels sent out and later lost themselves: On 10 September 1855, the abandoned Resolute was found adrift by the American whaler George Henry, captained by James Buddington of Groton, Connecticut in an ice flow off Cape Walsingham of Baffin Island, some 1,200 miles (1,900 km) from where she had been abandoned. The US Congress voted funds to have her refitted and in December 1856 she was sailed back to England and presented to Queen Victoria... |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,sciencegeek Date: 11 Sep 14 - 03:22 PM OT but does anyone know much about Tom Crean of Shakelton expedition. Might be part of my family tree. mg I missed this before... Mike has been obsessed with the subject since high school... that's why he often uses framheim or gjohaven for user IDs... lol he can and will talk your ear off... lucky you are on the opposite coast :) |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,sciencegeek Date: 11 Sep 14 - 02:56 PM talking about the Franklin Expedition last night & Mike goes, "Well there were 5 who survived." Knowing I was being set up, I responded.. oh yeah.. the ones who didn't go?. "No, they went, they just got sent/left at Greenland. Bet they were disappointed to be left out." Men... neat site about songs that came out of the tragedy. http://www.kzfr.org/broadcasts/view/389 |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Sep 14 - 01:24 PM Quibbles- Sir John Franklin was not a "lord." At the time he was captain, but as commander of the expedition, he could be considered an acting admiral; he was promoted to Rear Admiral posthumously. It has been previously reported that the Inuit knew the location, but the story has now been verified. The Inuit reported the fate of the ships to Dr. John Rae in 1854. The article referenced by meself is largely an anti-Harper diatribe. Harper is pushing efforts to develop the Canadian Arctic and cement "sovereignty" over the Northwest Passage. The Russians claim the North Pole and maintain the icebreaker Yamal in the Arctic waters and are perceived as a threat to Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic Islands. The crew was 'hand-picked" (selected) by the Admiralty, not commander of the expedition, Franklin. Simmons book may be a "good read," but it is fiction. The ship was found by a Parks Canada vessel using a recently acquired underwater vehicle and sonar gear. Four search vessels were involved this summer; a Coast Guard ship, a Royal Canadian Navy vessel, and one each from the Arctic Research Foundation, and One Ocean. Parks Canada has been involved in five or six searches since 2008. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: meself Date: 11 Sep 14 - 11:16 AM Seems the local Inuit knew the ship was there ever since it went down: of course, I wouldn't want to rain on Harper's parade. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: michaelr Date: 11 Sep 14 - 12:51 AM A good read is the novel "The Terror" by Dan Simmons, which imagines in excrutiating detail the travails Franklin and his gallant crew underwent after abandoning their icebound ships to find a way home overland. There is also a somewhat silly supernatural side story to the book, but it's easily ignored if you don't go in for that sort of thing. It's a good read. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,cptsnapper Date: 10 Sep 14 - 10:33 PM In yesterday's I there was an article saying that one of Franklin's boats has been identified underwater off King William Island although it doesn't give it's name. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Sep 14 - 07:57 PM the fate of Franklin, no man can tell but watch this space...! |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Jeri Date: 10 Sep 14 - 06:45 PM Northwest Passage, by Stan Rogers. Sandy, the problem is that a song or thread can belong to only one group, and Stan's song appears to belong to a group of "northwest passage" songs & threads. I like it better, too. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Steve Gardham Date: 10 Sep 14 - 06:14 PM As a very grateful Brit, I thank you for your generosity, Sandy! We sent you a famous steam train and recently borrowed it back. We sent you a discovery ship, can we borrow that back, please? |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 10 Sep 14 - 04:54 PM This was an expensive discovery dear to the heart of Stephen Harper! As one footing some of the tax bill I am less than greatly enthused! Stan Roger's "Northwest Passage" was a far better song, as well, and it should have a DT link above. Even though it is in Canada's waters and the discovery was at Canadian expense I am told that Britain still holds ownership of the wreck. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: bubblyrat Date: 10 Sep 14 - 02:08 PM In Britain, in today's "Times" newspaper, is an article about Sir John Franklin and his ill-fated expedition .It mentions both the food cans AND the ships'water-pipes as being the (possible) cause of the "poisoning " of the crew members . The word "Lord" ,as in the frequent erroneous allusion to Sir John, does not appear. QED. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Felipa Date: 10 Sep 14 - 01:13 PM video http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/wreck-of-doomed-franklin-expedition-ship-discovered/2gie3ats |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Felipa Date: 09 Sep 14 - 05:54 PM 9 Sept 2014 http://news.uk.msn.com/world/explorer-ship-lost-in-arctic-found "One of two British explorer ships that disappeared in the Arctic more than 160 years ago has been found, Canada's prime minister has announced. "Canada announced it would search again for British Arctic explorer Sir John Franklin's ships in 2008. "The HMS Erebus and HMS Terror were last seen in the late 1840s. "Prime Minister Stephen Harper said it remains unclear which ship has been found but images show there is enough information to confirm it is one of the pair. "Franklin and 128 hand-picked officers and men vanished on an expedition begun in 1845 to find the fabled Northwest Passage. "His disappearance prompted one of history's largest rescue searches, from 1848 to 1859, which resulted in the passage's discovery. The route runs from the Atlantic to the Pacific through the Arctic archipelago." |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Jeri Date: 09 Sep 14 - 04:34 PM On gCaptain:Canada Finds Historic Franklin Expedition Wreck. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Sep 14 - 04:20 PM The Franklin search: Peter Mansbridge on why we should care I'm an advisory board member — along with an astronaut, a research scientist, a philanthropist and a number of private businesspeople — for the non-profit Arctic Research Foundation. To be clear, it is a position for which I receive no money. A snippet from the article. Also: Interesting information about song versions. SRS |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,sciencegeek Date: 09 Sep 14 - 03:56 PM talked with hubby by phone at lunchtime & according to Inuit tales, one ship sank and the other was crushed in the ice before going down eventually. I think Mike has a bet with himself as to where the wreck was located... but he's keeping mum for now... probably because he can go on and on & I did need to get back to work... LOL don't go on twitter, but hopefully the historic ship geek site will have a field day. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Sep 14 - 03:48 PM I love this! Lots of great links are turning up on Twitter (Search Twitter for #FranklinExpedition) with links to companies designing search tools, to Canadian parks and various entities. SRS |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,sciencegeek Date: 09 Sep 14 - 03:39 PM yeah.. I feel much the same... a co worker got the news through the GIS chatroom & sent it around. I both emailed & called the hubby to let him know because he has been following Artic & Antarctic explorations since he was a kid. :) I first heard Lady Franklin's lament on a Paul Clayton album my mom had back in the '60's. It being the 200th anniversary of the Star Spangled Banner this weekend, I will be singing that at our little fiddler's fair... but I think I'll also work on the Lament as well. I've been reading a lot about the Resolute - one of the searchers- and 30 years ago Mike wrote a ballad about her. There's something about ships, dogs and horses that go to a person's heart. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Steve Gardham Date: 09 Sep 14 - 03:12 PM sciencegeek, That's earth-shattering. Having read the account I am feeling very emotional. I have read lots of books on Franklin's various expeditions, some contemporary with events. I have watched the programmes on the exhumation of the bodies. I can't believe that they've found one of the ships and it seems to be almost intact as well. I'm going to sing the ballad at this weekend's Hull Folk Festival to celebrate the event, hopefully at the concert in the Maritime Museum. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Sep 14 - 02:41 PM The Natl Geographic site will hopefully have more than just the text of a press release. My dad was fascinated by this expedition, and I worked at a national park in the Puget Sound area where one of their claims to fame is that Lady Franklin passed through on her own expedition to learn more about her husband's fate. It's nice to know there is a break in the mystery after all of these years, I just wish my dad was around to share the news with! SRS |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Charlie Baum Date: 09 Sep 14 - 02:40 PM They've discovered a ship in the arctic seas! It seems to be either the Erebus or the Terror. See http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/09/09/ship_from_lost_franklin_expedition for further details. --Charlie Baum |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,sciencegeek Date: 09 Sep 14 - 02:36 PM just heard that one of Lord Franklin's ships has been found... not yet clear if Terror or Eribus... but great news for ship geeks like the hubby. link below: http://tracking.canadiangeographic.ca/T/OFSYS/SM2/2/S/F/en-US/3616/11593593/KkEVN76H.html |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Desert Dancer Date: 16 Jan 12 - 05:54 PM Winter Songs: The Frozen Tale Of 'Lord Franklin' (referred to in my post of 29 Dec 2011, above) will air on NPR today. ~ Becky in Tucson |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: bubblyrat Date: 04 Jan 12 - 12:31 PM There is now a suggestion that they were all suffering from lead poisoning to some degree or other , caused by the piping aboard their vessels , which had been specially outfitted with a crude form of "central heating" and such luxuries as baths ( probably officers only !) ; the drinking water would have been piped using the same system (lead pipe based). This,apparently , now accounts for the irrational decisions and bizarre behaviour of the survivors when faced with their predicament ; for example, setting off on a trip across the ice carrying useless junk instead of aids to survival . The food containers probably just exacerbated an already deadly but unrealised complication. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Tattie Bogle Date: 03 Jan 12 - 06:00 PM Hi Rob N, I've also done a search of Gill Bowman's discography and Youtubes and can't find a recording of the John Rae song. I'll ask her next time I see her! |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,henryp Date: 03 Jan 12 - 10:31 AM BBC Radio 4 2.15pm Thursday 12 January 2012 Afternoon Play; Erebus. Poetic drama exploring John Franklin's expedition to find the North West Passage in 1845. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Rob Naylor Date: 03 Jan 12 - 09:12 AM Sorry, "GUEST" 2 posts above is me with an evaporated cookie. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,henryp Date: 03 Jan 12 - 08:17 AM Joseph René Bellot was a French Arctic explorer who joined the expedition under the command of Captain William Kennedy in search of Sir John Franklin. While making a perilous journey in the Wellington Channel in 1853, he disappeared in an opening between the broken masses of ice in the Wellington Channel. A granite memorial obelisk designed by Philip Hardwick was unveiled in 1855 on the Thames riverside in front of Greenwich Hospital; a nearby Greenwich street, Bellot Street SE10, also carries his name. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST Date: 03 Jan 12 - 06:44 AM Tattie Bogle: And Rob Naylor there IS a fabulous song about John Rae, written by Edinburgh songwriter, Gill Bowman. Do you know where I can find the lyrics/ music or an example of it being played/ sung? I can find *references* to it on google, mainly re one of Gill's Edinburgh Fringe performances but no actual example of lyrics, tune or performance, nor a CD or download for it. Would love to learn it and sing it at sessions as a counterpoint to the frequently-performed "Concerning Franklin"! |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Young Buchan Date: 02 Jan 12 - 04:56 PM Next time you're in London take a look at the Franklin Memorial. There are four columns listing the dead. There are (from memory) 2 columns of Officers, a column and a half of petty officers and half a column of actual sailors. No wonder it went pear shaped. Foive days into the ice they were probably still arguing about whether to have the Chablis or the Rioja with the Seal Cutlets! (And yes I know that part of the reason there were so many officers is that some scientists were made officers so they didn't have to slum it with the ABs) |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Desert Dancer Date: 02 Jan 12 - 02:08 PM In the context of a subsequent post, about science blogging, Andrew Revkin says this: For example, I greatly value the array of insights prompted by my post yesterday on the misadventures of the Arctic explorer John Franklin and the new version of the 19th-century ballad on his failed final expedition that I created with David Rothenberg. (You can hear me talk about the song sometime soon on NPR's "All Things Considered." A partial transcript is already online.] In a two-part comment, David Stoney of McClellanville, S.C., offers a fascinating look at how Franklin's disappearance was related to the profound lack of understanding of the Arctic Ocean and surrounding waters at the time. His post includes references to the amazing burst of knowledge that came from Elisha Kent Kane, an American naval officer who set out in search of Franklin's crew, with his own craft trapped in ice for nearly two years near the west coast of Greenland. Observations he made later helped bolster the deeply contested theory of ice ages proposed by Louis Agassiz. Russell A. Potter, an English professor at Rhode Island College who was able to visit the gravesite of some of Franklin's crew, maintains a fantastic Web site on "The Fate of Franklin". On seeing my post, he offered a deeper look at the 19th-century illustration that I used, and his reflections on how changes in climate alter the course of human affairs. [T]he illustration of the "Graves of the Companions of Sir John Franklin," of which I have an original print, remains a bit of a puzzler: it appears to show nearly 16 graves, several with heavy stone monuments. It doesn't match with the three known graves on Beechey, with their simple wooden markers, nor with any other known gravesite of Franklin's men; I've always wondered whether it might be a mis-captioned image of some other set of memorials. The climate changes being visited on the Arctic are indeed tragic, but the loss is large, abstract, and difficult to grasp — one reason that the sad tale of the loss of Franklin and his 128 men has resonated through the ages, up to a point where the very forces which imprisoned them have now turned, topsy-turvy, to threaten us all not with a superabundance of ice, but its disappearance. ... ~ Becky in Tucson |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,999 Date: 29 Dec 11 - 01:58 PM Lest it hasn't been mentioned, it was anthropologists from the University of Alberta who made the discovery in 1981-2. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: GUEST,Tootlin Geoff Date: 29 Dec 11 - 01:21 PM Shoddy soldering & leaking tins tends to lead to botulism. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845 From: Desert Dancer Date: 29 Dec 11 - 12:58 PM New York Times environment/science writer and musician Andrew Revkin has a post about the song and the changes in the arctic on his "Dot Earth" blog: A Warm Update to a Chilly Arctic Ballad, and he says there will be an item on NPR sometime today. He says, Earlier this month, I tuned in to NPR while driving somewhere and caught one of the "winter songs" that are a focus on All Things Considered in this chilly season. As it happened, just a couple of days earlier I'd popped over to the studio of David Rothenberg, the musician and author of books on whales, birds and evolution, to record a new take on the 19th century ballad "Lord Franklin." ... In our new take on the song, David added whale-ish notes on his bass clarinet along with samples of the crackle and shoosh of floating sea ice and we added two new verses taking the story from the ice-locked end of the little ice age to this era of warming, melting and opening seaways. ... I've been singing this tune pretty much since I started getting serious about guitar in college. I had a particular interest in British ballads through the music of Pentangle, Martin Carthy and others (the links go to their versions of the Franklin ballad). ... These are his added verses: Two hundred years since his ship went down The ocean rises over Franklin's ground. The planet warms, ice melts away. The Northwest Passage flows clear as day. Ships and whales now pass by the pole. Soon mighty trees will grow in Arctic soil. Warming winds thaw frozen ground. Soon polar bears may go where Franklin's bound. In addition to the NPR performance, the blog post includes a short video of Revkin (sans guitar) singing the song while tentbound in the arctic in 2003. He also says, "You can hear the song on Soundcloud or my Myspace page. You can buy it here [from cdbaby] (we're donating all proceeds to the fund for the University of the Arctic). " There's more to read at the blog post (my link at the top). The item hasn't shown up yet at NPR; I'll post the link when there is one. This song has been a favorite of mine in connection with my own arctic wanderings and dreams, long ago. ~ Becky in Tucson |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: GUEST,Don Wise Date: 10 Sep 11 - 07:39 AM Slight mistake:- the tins had simple overlapping seams rather than butt seams. Even so, the soldering was still generally shoddy. Be that all as it may, 'Lord Franklin' is one of my favourite songs. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:48 PM Franklin's Ghost blog Arctic exploration and the search for the Northwest Passage has in many ways defined an essential part of the Canadian identity. The search for the lost Franklin Expedition in particular plays a significant role in defining Canada, both from mapping the mysterious frozen lands to interactions between Europeans and the ancient native cultures of the North to the symbolic and even mythic importance of the North to Canadian sovereignty and identity. As interest in finding the elusive answers and missing ships grows over 150 years after the expedition first set out, Sir John Franklin's ghost haunts us still. This site is a catalog of the readings, thoughts and speculations of one amateur Canadian historian, as well as links to related materials and websites as the mystery continues to capitivate many to this day. About Me Ted Betts practices corporate law at a major Canadian law firm in Toronto. He obtained his BA and Master's in History from Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario with a focus on Canadian history (thesis: The Argument of the Century: The Ontario Press Coverage of the Scopes Trial and the Death of William Jennings Bryan). While he practices law and raises a family, he has remained a steadfast reader of history, particularly Canadian political and cultural history. Arctic exploration and the Franklin Expedition has over the years grown from an interest to a passion and now borders on being an obsession. ========== |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: GUEST,Don Wise Date: 09 Sep 11 - 02:25 PM Beechey Island was where the Franklin Expedition over-wintered. The four graves were opened and the bodies examined in 1981, along with the adjoining rubbish tip. The lead came from the food tins. The seams were simply butt-soldered, and not always very well at that (Quality control was unheard of) with the result that the seams were not always air-tight and that, in addition, the solder tended to be 'blobby' in places. The result was that many of the tins contained food that was not only polluted with lead but rotting as well. Source:Owen Beattie & John Geiger,'Frozen in Time:The fate of the Franklin Expedition' Bloomsbury Publishing Ltd., London 1987. There is also a novel built around Sir John Franklin, written by Sten Nadolny. I don't know whether there is an english translation, but the original title is 'Die Entdeckung der Langsamkeit'. 'Arctic Dreams', Barry Lopez,Bantam Books 1987 also has some interesting comments about the failure/failings of the Franklin Expedition. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: The Sandman Date: 09 Sep 11 - 12:02 PM god help the widows, not good |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: The Sandman Date: 09 Sep 11 - 12:02 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT6L8c2U35s here is the song, there are acouple of extra verses naming the different captains , ross wilmslow , parry, there is another verse that is sometimes sung about good help the widows. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: JeffB Date: 09 Sep 11 - 11:39 AM Keith A - I imagine the lead food tins would have been the much greater risk, as the food in them was a small volume completely surrounded by lead for many months. BTW, although they had tins of food, they didn't have tin-openers, which weren't invented until 1858. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: Desert Dancer Date: 09 Sep 11 - 11:15 AM The NY Times had an editorial today, Search for the Searchers, with this final paragraph: "The ships will almost certainly be found one day, in part because the technology for underwater exploration has become very sophisticated. But the real difference is this: The ice that has hidden the bones of Franklin's ships and made the Northwest Passage impenetrable for centuries withdraws a little farther each summer. Had Franklin set out to find the Northwest Passage as it exists in 2011, he might well have found it and returned home to live to a ripe old age." ~ Becky in Long Beach |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: GloriaJ Date: 09 Sep 11 - 10:50 AM I used to sing this song occasionally, and told a friend how this song made a powerful impression on me when I knew little about folk music.This was the John Renbourne/Pentangle version that I heard them do live, at maybe the first live gig I ever went to.Renbourne's not a great singer, but he brought out something powerful and moving in the song. Anyway, this friend is a book and manuscript collector, mainly concerned with 19th century alpine mountaineering, but she presented me with an actual letter of Sir John Franklin, written in 1844 just before his fatal expedition.Its written to another explorer, Sir William Parry, but Franklin simply signs it "yours very faithfully, John Franklin" and doesnt use his title. It feels a privilege to own a unique document like that. |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Sep 11 - 10:21 AM Some new research on the loss here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14847091 Did the lead come from the ship as well as or instead of the food tins? |
Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew From: Steve Gardham Date: 17 Oct 10 - 03:36 PM I don't think broadside hacks were too worried about degrees of peerage. To them, if she was a 'Lady' then he must have been a 'Lord'. I couldn't tell you who was or wasn't myself and I'm not sure I really care anyway. In ballads the knobs are nearly always lords anyway. |
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