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Folklore: What is a lacheko/Latchyco (lyr add)

mayomick 21 May 10 - 03:24 PM
Jim Carroll 21 May 10 - 03:39 PM
mayomick 21 May 10 - 03:54 PM
Jack Campin 21 May 10 - 03:56 PM
GUEST,^&* 21 May 10 - 04:00 PM
GUEST,^&* 21 May 10 - 04:19 PM
mayomick 21 May 10 - 06:10 PM
Jim Carroll 21 May 10 - 08:05 PM
Fred McCormick 22 May 10 - 06:05 AM
GUEST,mariner 22 May 10 - 11:32 AM
mayomick 23 May 10 - 03:14 PM
GUEST,Patrick Cuddihy 17 Oct 10 - 05:48 AM
mayomick 17 Oct 10 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,ruairiobroin 18 Oct 10 - 07:39 AM
Snuffy 18 Oct 10 - 01:05 PM
Jack Campin 18 Oct 10 - 01:52 PM
zozimus 18 Oct 10 - 02:39 PM
mayomick 19 Oct 10 - 12:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Oct 10 - 12:01 PM
mayomick 20 Oct 10 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,leeneia 21 Oct 10 - 11:04 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Oct 10 - 05:13 PM
GUEST,leeneia 21 Oct 10 - 05:27 PM
GUEST 23 Apr 11 - 01:51 AM
GUEST 23 Apr 11 - 01:53 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 23 Apr 11 - 08:19 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 23 Apr 11 - 08:35 AM
GUEST,Irish Guest 23 Apr 11 - 09:22 AM
EBarnacle 24 Apr 11 - 07:50 AM
GUEST,Sandra 09 May 11 - 06:33 AM
zozimus 09 May 11 - 06:00 PM
GUEST,Sandra 10 May 11 - 12:37 PM
GUEST 14 Jul 11 - 07:45 AM
GUEST,Aindrias 23 Nov 11 - 07:00 AM
GUEST,Paul 21 Jan 12 - 06:25 PM
GUEST,Sandra 09 Apr 12 - 09:53 AM
GUEST 20 Apr 12 - 07:30 PM
GUEST,L 04 May 12 - 09:17 AM
mayomick 04 May 12 - 09:51 AM
GUEST,L 06 May 12 - 04:48 PM
beachcomber 07 May 12 - 07:31 AM
GUEST 24 Oct 12 - 12:05 PM
Stringsinger 25 Oct 12 - 11:55 AM
GUEST 15 Apr 13 - 02:40 PM
GUEST,Lavengro 16 Apr 13 - 08:27 AM
GUEST,honoria 06 Jun 14 - 01:26 AM
mayomick 06 Jun 14 - 07:00 AM
Thompson 29 Nov 15 - 06:36 PM
GUEST,Ripov 30 Nov 15 - 05:38 PM
GUEST 16 Feb 16 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,mayomick 16 Feb 16 - 09:47 AM
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Subject: Folklore: Lacheko ?
From: mayomick
Date: 21 May 10 - 03:24 PM

A lacheko -I'm not sure of the spelling- is some sort of a ne'er do well . I heard a man using the word yesterday in Dublin and was wondering if anybody knows anything about its origins. Is it known outside of Ireland? You don't hear the word used very often nowadays .

Somebody once told me that he had heard a song called the Lacheko with a chorus that started with :

"And they called him The Lacheko "

I've never come acroos this song myself ,has anybody else? .He said he thought it might have been by the Dubliners .


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 10 - 03:39 PM

From A Dictionary of Hiberno-English.
Jim Carroll

Latchiko (colloq., pejor.), an unpleasant, disagreeable person (origin obscure; it has been suggested that the 'latch' suggests children who have to let themselves in by the latch and thus become delinquent as time goes on). 'Who are you calling a latchiko? Watch yourself!'; 'Those latchiko organisations' (Down). Healy, Nineteen Acres, 62: "You looked a bit of a latchiko going to school in Lowpark in hand-me-down American knickerbockers." See FIT-UP; GURRIER.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: mayomick
Date: 21 May 10 - 03:54 PM

Thanks Jim. I thought there might have been an Irish root . Is it ever used in used in Scotland ?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 May 10 - 03:56 PM

It's Romany, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 21 May 10 - 04:00 PM

I remember asking Dubliner Luke Cheevers what it meant, many years ago. His answer was "Ah! ... A sort of a go-be-the-wall kinda guy!".


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 21 May 10 - 04:19 PM

I was initially sceptical of the suggested"latch" derivation - I think "latch-key kids" is a more recent and less local term - and then I came across the following in Partridge's dictionary of historical slang:

latch-key A crowbar : Irish Constbulary's: 1881-2. Because so often used by them in evictions.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: mayomick
Date: 21 May 10 - 06:10 PM

That seems to make sense .The people being evicted would then use the latchkey as a curse word.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 10 - 08:05 PM

Only ever heard it over here in Ireland - mainly by Dubs.
Luke would be the person to ask - there's plenty of them in Dublin!
This is another definition from Bernard Share's 'Slanguage' (highly recommended).

Jim Carroll
Latchico [n., cf. Sc. latch, indolent, idle person, poss. <OF laschier (vb.), relax; but many other etyms. suggested; 'Dockland slang for a waster or a rogue' (Vincent Caprani, Rowdy Rhymes & 'Re - im-itations',1982); used on Brit, building sites by West of Ireland workers, poss. <unidentified Ir. (DOM)]. As thus; halfwit. 1970 Christy Brown, Down All the Days: '"They trust me, bejasus [q.v.]...They know I'm no fucking latchico or general foreman's lick-arsc [see lick].'" 1989 Robert E. Tangney, Other Days Around Me: '"What did you let him in for?" roared the angry widow. "He's the biggest latchico in town.'"

Jim: Your problem was a couple of ?less than? signs which fooled your browser (and everyone's browser) into thinking you were posting an HTML command. If you need to use a ?less than? sign that is NOT the beginning of an HTML command, you need to replace ?<? with ?&lt;?. --One of the JoeClones


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 22 May 10 - 06:05 AM

Here's what Cassell's Dictionary of Rhyming Slang says.

"Latchico. n. [1970s-1980s] (Irish) a wastrel, a rogue. [Scot, latch, indolent, idle]."

The Scots derivation seems to be confirmed by Warrack's Scots Dictionary and Robinson's Concise Scots Dictionary, both of whom use it to mean an idler or procrastinater.

The term was in widespread use in Liverpool, where I first heard it as far back as the mid 1960s, and where it usually meant someone who was a bit of a layabout, or who couldn't be relied on or trusted. So I'm a bit puzzled about Casell's 1970s-80s ascription. Maybe it entered wider circulation about then.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,mariner
Date: 22 May 10 - 11:32 AM

"The Latchico " was recorded by a New Ross man who was known as "Wexford" Kiely, sometime in the 60s.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: mayomick
Date: 23 May 10 - 03:14 PM

I googled that Mariner . You're right - recorded on Decca ,spelt The Lachyko. I'd love to hear it. Thanks to everyone for their very helpful answers ....mick


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,Patrick Cuddihy
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 05:48 AM

I worked with a demolition team in the sixties in London on the removal of the Old Stock Exchange near the Bank of England; Having shifted, as the term was then, a rather lovely lass from an office nearby, and not sharing fully with my mates on the site the day after of the night before, one of them called me a Latchicoe! The Name stuck! And to this day people in Freshford Co Kilkenny call me Latch or Latchicoe; And sure tis a more honourable title than politician, banker or priest these days for that matter, so there!

Liked Wexford Kiely's song and sang it in a few pubs in London myself; but I preferred the flipside "I'll do my own washing and my own cooking"

Now if only I'd stuck to that!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: mayomick
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 02:04 PM

A remarkable site mudcat . I was amazed to find out so quickly what a Latcheko was . To now have a self-confessed who writing in is a double pleasure. I note that you put an "e" on the end of the word , Patrick . They are very posh in the Freshford part of Kilkenny , I had heard that!

Can you remember the lyrics ?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,ruairiobroin
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:39 AM

Somebody above thought the word might be romany . In hungary where nearly every second male is called Laszlo and often with three generations living , if not in the same house , in very close proximity, invariably the youngest will be called Latchiko. whilst it is a term of endearment, in my experience he is usually the one not pulling his weight . Don't know if it's a coincidence that the same word is used.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: Snuffy
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 01:05 PM

A totally different derivation from Urban Dictionary, which doesn't give any authority or provenance for its supposed meaning. Can the Irish scholars here confirm if latchiko sounds anything like "half-a-hat"?

Latchico
A corruption of the Irish for "half a hat", or more explicitly half a penis. Usually used in reference to wide boys, cute hoors or dodgy geezers.
Ur some latchico, boy...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 01:52 PM

My old "Romanised Hindustani-English Dictionary" lists "lat" (dot under the t, which I think means something like "tch") as meaning "fool, stupid fellow" and says it comes from Sanskrit.

If it was in Sanskrit, some derivate of it is likely to have made its way into Romany.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: zozimus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 02:39 PM

A web search for latchico led me to a site of Cork slang which states that a latchico is "a person who likes to sniff the saddle of a females bicycle after she's gone to mass". I wonder what else they do in Cork. Any chance of the lyrics?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 12:36 PM

It doesn't really sound like half a hat at all , Snuffy . Latch as in (door)latch and then "echo" or "iko" .

Regarding possible Hungarian and sankrit connections , I have never heard latchiko used as a term of endearment . A latcheko isn't stupid either :wide boys, cute hoors or dodgy geezers - and whatever else they get up to in Cork of course.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 12:01 PM

Robert Service wrote a book called "Ballads of a Cheechako" - the word meaning a naive newcomer to the Yukon Gold Rush, said to be from a Chinook word.

Any possible connection?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: mayomick
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 01:24 PM

Perhaps the Latchekos did cross the Bearing Straights and the tundra at some stage . Or was that the celts?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 11:04 AM

Curious about lacheko, I checked my dictionary and came across 'laches' an English word I had never heard before.

la·ches noun \ˈla-chəz, ˈlâ-\
plural laches
Definition of LACHES
: negligence in the observance of duty or opportunity; specifically : undue delay in asserting a legal right or privilege
Origin of LACHES
Middle English lachesse, from Anglo-French laschesce, from lasche lax, ultimately from Latin laxare to loosen ? more at lease
First Known Use: 14th century


My 1934 dictionary had many other meanings; laches is laziness, indolence, negligence. In fact, just about every male fault except being violent and leaving the toilet seat up.

I wonder if, in port cities, the idea of 'laches' as laziness was wedded to -ico to produce 'lacheko,' a lazy man.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:13 PM

Cognate with laxative, which also implies looseness.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:27 PM

Ah, the great web of the Indo-European languages. Who'da thunk it?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:51 AM

Does anyone know the lyrics to this song?


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE LATCHYCO (Daniel O'Donnell)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:53 AM

Oh, look. I just found them.

Daniel O'Donnell - The Latchyco lyrics

THE LATCHYCO

Oh, my brother he's a latchyco, although he is my twin,
And wherever I go in London town I find I just can't win.
I get the blame for his misdeeds no matter where I roam.
Well, if I could find that Lachyco, I'd send him right back home.

From Kilburn up to Hammersmith, from the Bush to Camden Town,
The barmen and the governors seem to greet me with a frown.
From Holloway Road to Cricklewood, I'm sure to hear them say:
"Get out of here, you Latchyco." They send me on my way.

I was working down in the underground on the new Victoria Line.
When I went to draw my hard-earned wage, I soon had cause to mind.
They said: "We paid you yesterday; your face we've always known."
Oh, he'll have to, go that Latchyco; I'll send him right back home.

I was walking down the Edgeware Road when who came on the scene
But a queer one and she grabbed at me sayin', "Darling, where have you been?"
but she should've been riding on a broom with a hat shaped like a cone.
Oh, he'll have to go, that Latchyco; I'll send him right back home.

I've been searching for a month or more for that twin brother of mine,
But what they say in the papers today looks like the end of the line,
For the picture of the dark-haired boy in the story down below.
My, how that picture looks like me, but no, it's the Latchyco.

The story tells of a brave young man who ran in all alone
To a burning mass of blazing flame that once was a happy home.
He gave his life but not before he set two children free,
So now I know the Latchyco was a better man than me.
So now I know the Latchyco was a better man than me.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 08:19 AM

Saw a film, 'Latcho Drom', at a gypsy festval at The Barbican over 10 yrs ago

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107376/


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 08:35 AM

A 7 min clip from 'Latch Drom' - superb!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQn6Qb-9mD8

It was on TV recently but I can't remember which channel.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,Irish Guest
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 09:22 AM

Yes, the Irish word for half is "Leath" (pronounced "Lah" ) but I know of no word in that language that even sounds like "Cheko" ?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 07:50 AM

One possible derivation which has been ignored is that it might be derived/back formed from "Latch Key Child," a child whose parent or parents both have to work so the child has to let him or herself into the family home and take care of himself. Such a child gets no adult supervision and is likely to grow up in undesirable ways. It depends on how old the word is.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 09 May 11 - 06:33 AM

Hi,
I'm John Wexford Kiely's niece, he was my mums brother and he died on stage In London 40 years ago. His song The Latchyco was number 1 in Ireland many moons ago. We still have his original records and he also sang My Own Washing and I'll Walk Beside you. I'll try loading the song onto YouTube so you can have a listen!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: zozimus
Date: 09 May 11 - 06:00 PM

Hi Sandra,
Any idea what year The Latchyco was number one in Ireland? It sounds to me it predates Ireland having charts.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 10 May 11 - 12:37 PM

Will find out exactly what year it was, but the Irish charts first started in 1962 and Uncle John (Wexford Kiely) died in 1971 when he was 30 or 33 (can't remember which one!). I'll get back to you soon.....


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:45 AM

daniel o donnel did a version of this song


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,Aindrias
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:00 AM

Hey Snadra, let us kno when u upload John Wexford Kiely's song to Utube.
I grew up in Mayo and Galway, and always the lads coming bak form London had the stories and songs about John Wexford Kiely and the Latchikos who worked as Navies in the smoke!

Whenevr i pass through Camden and Criklewood and Kilburn, i always hear a bit of the song in my head...

John Wexford Kiely will always be remembered in hearts of exiles...

We ar ein Sydeny now and i love to sing a bit of the song sometimes for all the paddeis - bondi is the new Krikelwood

Love

A


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 06:25 PM

The Latchyco is a great song. I am from New Ross and remember John Wexford Kiely's memorial notice appearing in the local paper - The Standard - every September year after year.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 09:53 AM

There is a big family reunion in New Ross over the August bank holiday this year for Uncle Johns anniversary, and his memorial notice is still in the paper every year! His mum (my nan) Maggie Kiely formerly of Michael Street, New Ross died 6 years go so this has been taken over by my mum, Peggy and her sister Kathleen.

I was brought up listening to his songs and I live in North London, so I'm often caught singing the song when I'm driving through Holloway Road or Camden.....!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Lachyko (lyr add)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 07:30 PM

The song The Latchyco was sung by John Wexford Kiely and was a hit in london in 1969/70 The song was written by Johnny McCauley for John Wexford Kiely.He also wrote songs for Big Tom and Daniel O Donald and many more . The song is about twin brothers in Lomdon one is a ner do well


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Lachyko (lyr add)
From: GUEST,L
Date: 04 May 12 - 09:17 AM

The Latchyco was sung by John 'Wexford' Kiely and released on a '45 single in 1969 B side was My own Washin and both were written and produced by the late great singer and song writer Johnny Mc Cauley Denver Records.

A Latchyco is supposed to be another name for a wild devil/child !


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Lachyko (lyr add)
From: mayomick
Date: 04 May 12 - 09:51 AM

Brilliant ,thanks everyone for their imput .I still don't know the tune.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Lachyko (lyr add)
From: GUEST,L
Date: 06 May 12 - 04:48 PM

Mayomick - Daniel O'Donnell does a version of this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXV-LRIEFOI

Have to say not as good as John 'Wexford' Kiely's version !


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Lachyko (lyr add)
From: beachcomber
Date: 07 May 12 - 07:31 AM

Yeh, I have a copy of that disc also. I must agree that Daniel's version does not capture the "flavour" of the lyric as old Johnny's did. But then, I don't think that Daniel ever lived in that Irish "Demi-monde" that was Kilburn/Cricklewood/Camden Town/Willesden and Holloway Rd of the 50s to 70s in the way that "Wexford" Kiely did ??


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Lachyko (lyr add)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:05 PM

Have you ever heard the sound of GER DEASY, folksinger from Clonakilty, Co.Cork ? He recorded it several years ago on MC called THE GER DEASY SOUND.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Lachyko (lyr add)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 11:55 AM

Didn't wade through the thread to see if it was mentioned but the Gypsy film, "Latcho Drom" says that means "traveler" in Romany.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Lachyko (lyr add)
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 02:40 PM

I knew Wexford Kiley very well as a young man ib London. I played hurling with him for Muindearg who were based in the Harrow Road at the time. John worked as a caretaker in a block of flats in Maida Vale. I used to talk to him most days. Was at his funeral too. He was a gifted singer and dropped dead on stage in an Irish pub. Mike in Galway


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Lachyko (lyr add)
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 08:27 AM

Hi everyone,

Obviously with all the different dialects of Romani people are going to favour slightly different uses of phrases in different parts of the world for different circumstances. Latcho- means a journey and Drom-means road. I have heard that Romani in other parts of europe use the phrase Latcho drom to basically wish some one a safe journey but I have not heard it used in the UK or Ireland where the Romani generally would say Dza Develsar-God go with you, or something similar.

Of course Irish Travellers don't speak Romani they speak Cant or Gammon but there hase been influence both ways in terms of adopted phrases and words especially in the wake of government policy to lump the Irish Travellers and Romani together on offical sites regardless of the wishes of either side.

So it does seem possible that Irish Travellers might have adopted a derivitive of Latcho to mean a Travelling man of whatever description? But again all the Irish Travellers I know use Pavee in relation to themselves.

Clear as mud now eh!!!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Latchyco (lyr add)
From: GUEST,honoria
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 01:26 AM

a latchico is a person who hangs around pubs, waiting for generous inebriates to buy him drink. I have seen many in my day, they are an endangered species nowadays but you may still spot the odd one sitting in the corner of an irish country pub.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Latchyco (lyr add)
From: mayomick
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 07:00 AM

sorry to hear that Kiely died ,thanks for all the info . I'm inclined to think that the "latch key" origin is the most likely.Whatever way it's spelled, the "k" sound is definitely there in Lacheko .

Honoria's description of a latchico is about right- he isn't the sort you'd tend to say "Latcho drom" to if you met him in a pub, Lavengro . If you told a latchiko to have a safe journey home he'd probably put the tap on you for the cab fare.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Latchyco (lyr add)
From: Thompson
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 06:36 PM

I'd agree with Honoria; a latchico is most specifially a freeloader, someone who goes to things like book launches and large parties and events where there'll be free wine; like the lone lorn lost lover in Carrickfergus, he's seldom drunk but he's never sober, a constant rover from town to town.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Latchyco (lyr add)
From: GUEST,Ripov
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 05:38 PM

I wonder, especially considering Leenia's post re "laches" (no I've not heard it before either) if it might have a connection with the phrase "on the lash", basically, intending to have a drunken (or worse) night out?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Latchyco (lyr add)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 16 - 08:00 AM

a 'latchiko' is a hare - not sure if this is Romani or not.
It is used in a poem called 'The Hare' by John F Deane


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Subject: RE: Folklore: What is a lacheko/Latchyco (lyr add)
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 16 Feb 16 - 09:47 AM

Guest,Are you sure about that?There's a 2011 poem called Eye of the Hare by John F. Deane, but it has no mention of a lachecko in it .
http://www.johnfdeane.com/EyeoftheHare.html


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