BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:49 PM

An automatic pistol (various Colt autos, Berettas, Walthers, Brownings, etc.) can be loaded in a matter of a couple of seconds. Stow the pistol in the holster (say, on the right side) unloaded, with a fully loaded magazine in a left-hand pocket. Draw the gun while removing the magazine from the pocket with the other hand. Slip the magazine into the grip and when it latches in place (less than a second), draw the slide back all the way, which automatically cocks the weapon, and release it. The mainspring snaps the slide forward again, stripping the top round off the magazine and sliding it into the chamber.

All of two seconds and she's ready to fire.

So—even if the gun is being packed unloaded, therefore legally, it's still a damned dangerous thing to allow.

The loosest possible interpretation of the Second Amendment, and an armed mob like that, whether carrying concealed or openly, with permits or not, hardly constitutes a "well-regulated militia."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:40 PM

Well, it seems to me that if you blow your jewels off you're not a very well-ordered person, much less in the militia. I hope the man was arrested as well -- discharging a firearm in a populated area or reckless shooting or at the very least disturbing the peace. He obviously didn't know squat about how to carry safely.

I have to admit that seeing someone openly toting a gun in public bothers me -- I think that they must be inadequate in other ways and are compensating.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: John P
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:34 PM

Sometime in the last week, a guy in a Lowe's hardware store had a gun hidden in the waistband of his pants. It went off accidentally and removed his testicles. I'm somewhat ashamed to say I applauded, in a Darwin's Law sort of way.

I was also horrified to think that there may be armed people all around me when I'm shopping for nuts and bolts. I know it's legal, but I'm with Joe -- how can anyone assure me that a gun won't go off accidentally and remove MY testicles? And, given the irrational rage I often see acted out by people, how can I be assured that someone isn't going to lose their temper and start firing?

The 2nd Amendment says we can't take away our right to bear arms. I must have missed the part where it says we can't make any rules about it. And then there's that pesky well ordered militia phrase . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: olddude
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:26 PM

Common Law across many states Joe ... here in NY state people who are licensed to carry a loaded concealed handgun like myself ... that gun better be concealed for the reasons you spoke about or you may lose your license... that is our law. In PA and other states no not the case ... it comes down to the rights and safety of others also ... It is exactly those types of people who get their "gun rights restricted or taken away" States like Wisconsin you cannot carry a concealed weapon as a citizen ... no license exists ... I suspect the 2nd will eventually be taken away my guess and if it does, it will be people like this that can blame themselves ...

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:21 PM

Joe, as a gun owner and the possessor of a concealed carry permit, I can tell you that I would never carry a firearm openly except on a range (and then only between the firing line and the reload table or to put it away) or hunting, and that would be away from populated areas.

I don't understand the apparent need to show that I'm armed. For one thing, the police (at least here) would ask me all sorts of questions.

Robyn, I've been following that story and need to know more before I can comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:03 PM

It was a common occurrence when speakers from the NorthWest Coalition for Human rights or something or other, I can't remember the name, went to places like Montana to speak of human rights. And there was no guarantee they were not loaded, in fact the inference was the opposite. It was an intimidation tactic. That was in the mid to late 90s.

My concern would be those who want to carry openly will just get permits to carry concealed, or do so regardless. I don't know what the answer is, Joe, but I wouldn't be happy about it, either. Makes ya wonder just why they feel the need to have a gun with them. My dad taught us to never, ever point a gun or even take one out unless we meant to use it to kill or target practice. Of course, we weren't supposed to use it to kill except in self-defence or to put an animal down if hit by a car or something. I can tell you he would NOT approve of any yahoos taking them near the President.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:00 PM

Concealed weapons are a problem, gnu, but most states have fairly strict controls on concealed firearms - and the Supreme Court has upheld those controls.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:57 PM

But, can a concealed gun be carried? Far more dangerous.

Subject: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:36 PM

Sometime last year, there was a demonstration outside an Arizona convention center where Barack Obama was speaking. The demonstrators, about a dozen people, were carrying guns. Since the guns were unloaded, the demonstration was legal - at least, it was legal in Arizona.

But the thought of it scared me to death, to think that such a display of deadly force was legal.

Yesterday, the California State Assembly passed a bill that would make such demonstrations illegal. It barely passed the Assembly, and there's doubt that it will pass the Senate. Governor Schwarzenegger hasn't taken a position on the bill, so there's no guarantee he'll sign it if the
Senate passes it.

The bill, AB 1934, makes "carrying an exposed handgun in a public place or on a public street in a city or in prohibited areas of unincorporated county territory a misdemeanor, punishable by a $1,000 fine and six months in jail. The bill contains exceptions, including display of a firearm by a peace officer, a firearms dealer, a target-shooter at a range, a gun-show participant, and by a licensed hunter while engaged in that sport." (Sacramento Bee, 2 June 2010).

Sam Paredes, director of the Gun Owners of California, says that the bill "urinates on the Second Amendment." It seems that the Supreme Court has made it clear that (at least for the time being), the Second Amendment protects the rights of individuals to bear arms, so let's not argue that point. Given the climate in the Supreme Court right now, I think that any legislation has to honor that right. But what of my rights as a citizen who's scared to death of guns? If I saw a dozen people carrying guns outside an arena, I'd be scared to go anywhere near that place. Doesn't their bearing of arms interfere with my right to enter a public place without fear? How can I be sure that those people don't have bullets in their guns?

What do you think of all this? How can the rights of gun owners be respected, without causing undue fear for the rest of us?

I've had a gun pointed at me only once in my life. I dealt with it, because it was my job to deal with it; but it was not a wonderful feeling.

-Joe-

---

Since this thread is likely to be controversial, no guest posts will be permitted.