BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her

Subject: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 06:01 PM

But is she right? (This is about the controversy after she said that Israel should get the hell out of Palestine and its inhabitants should all go back where they came from, or something. She didn't actually say a religion isn't a nationality... but she was the greatest thorn in the side of any presidential press conference evvvvvvvver...)

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 06:14 PM

I think she's welcome to her own opinion - but she has to know that in her line of work she needs to have the appearance of being neutral. She really screwed up making those comments on camera.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 06:27 PM

She wrote a column of her opinion, so she was not a neutral news reporter.
Be that as it may, it's a shocking ending to a long career.
I saw the video when she made the statement... she said they should go back to Poland and Germany. Yikes!

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 06:36 PM

European and American Zionists completely upset the original intent of Palestine.
Too bad she is penalized for her beliefs, while opposing views are looked upon as the only acceptable ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Lox
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 06:41 PM

Helen Thomas was wrong to say what she said.

People who have emigrated lawfully to Israel from Europe do not deserve to be subject to these kinds of comments.

It is also true that The Israeli administration should not settle european immigrants on land that does not belong to Israel, nor evict people from their property either within Israel or in illegally occupied territory to make room for European immigrants.

Europeans lawfully emigrating to Israel should be free to settle within Israels borders without displacing any of its residents in the process.

I suspect that helen thomas' comments relate to European immigrants who have settled on land occupied illegally by Israel, or those who have settled on land from which non Jewish residents have been forcibly evicted solely because they were not Jewish.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:26 PM

Lox, inter alia commented:

The Israeli administration should not settle european immigrants on land that does not belong to Israel,

A central problem here is that expression, "belong to". A substantial portion of world Jewry considers that that land belongs to them, out of ancient times. I know a strong equitable argument can be made on the Palestinian side of essentially the same argument, but that "Eretz Israel, we've always owned that land" concept is very politically strong in Israel, and the Israeli government can ignore it only at the cost of immediately losing office to the real hard-liners.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:36 PM

I think age has gotten to Helen's formerly agile brain. I can't imagine how she thought THAT remark could get by.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:36 PM

Possession is 9/10 of the law.
She's 90 years old and entitled to be wrong.Hell, I'm wrong all the time and I'm no where near 90.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:43 PM

I just had a thought, and looked up her bio on wikipedia...


"Her parents, George Thomas and Mary (née Rowady), were Lebanese immigrants from Tripoli, Lebanon;[5][6][7] her father's surname had originally been "Antonious" before being anglicized to Thomas at Ellis Island"

I'd guess that she has harbored 'thoughts' about Israel since it was created. This recent job as a columnist seems to have made her think her 'opinions' were gonna be appreciated. She was good at what she did for a very long time....too bad she couldn't walk out 'cleanly'.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:56 PM

Maybe she could have added all the other imigrants in the world who displaced or killed off original residents and made trouble for them...to go back to where they came from. Now, does that right and defendable also?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 08:06 PM

I think that Helen Thomas just staked out the most radical position that could be staked out... Maybe having done this will at the very least get Isreal to work a little harder in trying to resolve it's issdues with the Palestinians...

Hey, "Can't we all just get along???"

I mean, there isn't much movement from the hardliners in Isreal and there needs to be some... Their blockade is only making them less safe... I'd like everyone to have some level of security in the Middle East that is now missing and Isreal is holding most of the cards...

So maybhe something good can come out of Helen Thomas's radical rant...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 08:09 PM

"Since leaving UPI, Thomas has been more likely to air her personal views. In a speech at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Thomas quipped, "I censored myself for 50 years when I was a reporter. Now I wake up and ask myself, 'Who do I hate today?'""

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 08:26 PM

Helen is not senile as Amos impnes, but simply depended too much on the priviledge of age to be truthful.

She was not talking about the Isreal of the past. Today's Isreal has lost every single allie in the middle east and Europe. Even when the US simply asked for Isreal to not leave Gaza but only stop building apartments for Jews only, the leadership of Isreal said to America, "Fuck YOU!"
Today Isreal's NetenYAHOO has taken the gamebook from Bush neocons and is playing a deadly game of idiot's revenge for the last two military adventures that they clearly lost. Thier right wing gestapo tactics do not please anyone except the far right.

About two years ago I proposed that no matter how bigoted and militant South Carolinans can be, Isreal would be better suited to have South Carolina partitioned and establish their new country there while preserving the right to visit and vacation in Jerusalem.

I grew up with the familial remnants of the holocaust and have come to learn that many holocausts have occured and differ only in the technology used to murder people. Isreal is a glowing testament to hard work, democracy, hope, and dreams of religious freedom and peace. Peace has not happened and without any doubt never will. If Jewish scholors believed in wisdom more than repeating the past, they would jump at the offer of South Carolina as the best promised land on the planet.

Given the alternative of releasing atomic and hydrogen bombs in the middle east in the next decade, I believe that half of South Carolina is the best alternative to a desert wasteland dead sea and unending killing.

South Carolina is not the only choice. Puerto Rico is another better alternative to Palistine and the holy Roman land of sorrow. Even the Mormons had sense enough to move on until they hit Utah even though the holy incidents and relics that were supposedly delivered to Joseph Smith took place in upstate Palmyra New York. What is it with salty dead lakes and religions anyway?

but I digress.

Helen is a vital and honest voice in America that will be missed.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 08:33 PM

impunes

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 08:54 PM

Sdee, that's whast I am talking about... Sometimes it does take some radical views to get the knuckleheads to just do something... Anything...

Hey, if South Carolina has to go, so be it...

But seriously, there is an advantage to being old enough to not give a shit about what folks might think... My dad was a Republican *almost* all of his life... Yeah, it was starnge growin' up in my family c'asue my mom, ahhhhh, she was a leftist commie mommie...

But when my dad finally retired (from a business where most of his associates, if not all, were Repubs) he changed his tune... It was so refreshing... I mean, here's a guy who supported Vietnam right to the end but when Bush came along with wanting to attack Iraq my dad said stuff about Bush that I cannot repeat...

So, yeah, I hope that Helen Thomas's rant brings some change...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 09:43 PM

Carving up the Ottoman Turkish Empire by the victors following WW1 has stained eastern Europe and western Asia with blood for almost 100 years.
No end in sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 11:22 PM

Which land is the property of Israel? Is it the land they have been able to hold since 1947, since 1967? the Sinai? If Israel has good reason to believe they can make an honest deal with anyone, including Hamas, the settlers will find themselves moved out post haste.

Based on recent history, the Palestinians will then move in, slaughter anyone who is not a party liner and trash the structures left behind by the "Zionist Jewish entity" because they don't want anything from the Jews.

As long as the Palestinians do not actually have a diaspora from the camps, the Arabs are maintaining a pestilential source of fear and hatred perfect for recruiting jihadists.

The really objectionable part of Thomas's statement is that she is indulging her prejudices using her age and status as an excuse. Right now, the Germans, Russians and Poles, along with other central European countries are "friendly territory" in their laws. All it takes is a change of administration for that to turn around.

Without a national home, we Jews are truly "Ivri," wanderers with no one to stand up for us and no where to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: mousethief
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 11:36 PM

As long as the Palestinians do not actually have a diaspora from the camps, the Arabs are maintaining a pestilential source of fear and hatred perfect for recruiting jihadists.

Explain what this means, please. Sorry to be thick.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 08 Jun 10 - 11:47 PM

If a Jihadist ever does make it to the next world, wouldn't it be funny if the first of his 72 virgins looks like Helen Thomas?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: number 6
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 12:23 AM

Here's something that concerns me ...

The writing is on the synagogue wall

I'll more than likely take a lot of flak for posting this ... but all in all it's a reality.

This is all I'll post regrding this matter ... say what you will, but I will not be drawn into any arguments by those who refute this.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:08 AM

Yes, biLL, it is a reality. The holocaust is a reality. The oppression of Palestinians by the Israeli government is a reality. Lots of hurtful and harmful reality, past and present.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Calico
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:37 AM

Rabbi Sol, I think it would be a great comeuppance if a Jihadist's 77 virgins were all 89 years old, regardless of whatever else they looked like.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 02:11 AM

Anti semetic fronts could collide for the perfect storm. Tea party meets the religious right meets a third storm of anti immigrant, birther Glen Neck historians.

Evangelical church leaders have presented a freindly face to Isreal in recent years while more or less ignoring their own Jewish neighbors.
How long do you think it would take in this climate for the religious right to purge the non christians in thier thoughts and deeds? I say it would take less than 2 years for the religious right to add Jews to their hate shit list.

Its not like 'they' are really out of anti semetic practice.

The money that South Carolina residents and farmers would get would heal feeling quickly. Heck a lot of them were talking secession anyway. ;k

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 04:39 AM

History teaches us that man never learns from history!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:21 AM

Some historic information on Jewish movements to what is now Israel, from the Jewish virtual library.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/m

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:39 AM

Another site with historic information:
http://www.mythsandfacts.com/conflict/mandate_for_palestine/mandate_for_palestine.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Lox
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:21 AM

Here is an interesting article about Helen Thomas.


    Clear cut case of right and wrong.


Rabbi Sol,

If we are poking fun at the religious beliefs of Moslem political extremists in this thread, does that mean we should, in the interests of balance, also be poking fun at the religious beliefs of Christian or Jewish extremists?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:44 AM

Journalists have personal opinions. There is no surprise in that fact. But, when one crosses the line, and publically takes a position on a significant issue, or make what some may consider hateful or disparaging remarks, they have crossed the line from being seen as an objective journalist to an advocate. We all have the right to our opinions and beliefs. But, it is wise to act with caution, if publically airing these opinions impacts the job we do. She joins a small number of journalists who stepped down from their jobs (or were requested to do so) when they exercised poor judgement, and crossed that line.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Genie
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:12 AM

It is very stifling to the essential principle of freedom of the press when longstanding careers of outstanding journalists, even those who engage in political commentary, can be ended and dismissed abruptly because of one thoughtless comment or error, even an outrageous one.

Hardly anyone is defending what Helen Thomas said, but weighed against a stellar 50-year career asking the tough questions we need journalists to ask, I don't think that error in judgment merits relegating her to the dustbin of political discussion.

Will she be replaced by yet another weak-kneed 'reporter' afraid to offend those in political power by asking important questions on controversial issues?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Lox
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:24 AM

"Hardly anyone is defending what Helen Thomas said, but weighed against a stellar 50-year career asking the tough questions we need journalists to ask, I don't think that error in judgment merits relegating her to the dustbin of political discussion."

In addition to which, the question of what she was actually saying is a moot point.

Did she say All Jews should leave Israel?

No.

She has had that view attributed to her though and is being punished for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:36 AM

Did she say All Jews should leave Israel?

That may also seem like a moot point to many.

Did Don Imus refer to all blacks when he made his inappropriate (racial) comment?

Also, No.

But, that also seemed like a moot point.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Lox
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:42 AM

True, but associated with theis subject is the issue of European immigrants being settled in the occupied territories and on land within Israel from which non-Jews have been evicted specifically so that Israeli Jews could settle there.

It is highly likely that Helen Thomas was referring to the injustice of this and questioning the right of europeans to effectively forcibly evict residents of a given area just so that they can live there.

This would be a valid point.

Sadly she was not clear so until she clarifies her view we cannot know.

Equally sadly, she has been convicted and punished for espousing anti-semitic views before she or we have had a chance to scrutinize her motives more clearly, which amounts to shooting first ad asking questions later.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:55 AM

People should be able to express their thoughts.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: bobad
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 08:06 AM

"People should be able to express their thoughts."

She did.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: number 6
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 08:48 AM

"People should be able to express their thoughts"

Yes they should ... but one also must be held accountable for what one says.

we currently live in a very complex and delicate time in history were we are becoming extremely polarized on political, philosophical, racial, religious views. Paranoia, fear, hatred, revenge is at an all time high. Such remarks from a person of her position, or by anyone does not ease the tension. What she said just adds more fuel to the fire of hatred, ignorance and injustice. Both sides of the equation are hurt from such remarks.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 10:00 AM

I'm not sure Helen Thomas screwed up. She didn't elucidate her point of view. That's not a screw-up but a "gotcha" (as Republicans are fond of saying. Her point of view was clear.
Israel should get the hell out of Gaza. As to the other part about Jewish inhabitants of
Israel going back to the lands of origin, this was not really clear on her part. She didn't have a chance to elucidate and she was angry and caught off guard. It's Ari Fleischer
who has a vested interest in Israeli politics that jumped on this band wagon.

I think she left fiery and uncompromising as she has always been in her reporting, wanting to get at the truth. As to the quality of reporting that she was able to give, to do the same Ari Fleischer as they say in a Yiddish trope, "He should live so long."

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 10:00 AM

Hmmm. Ferry, ferry interestink.

Does Israel being based in religion make it such that you could be Israeli in Poland and Germany and anywhere else there are Jews, but you can only be Palestinian in Palistine since that is based on geography? I think we know that at the dawn of history (as in writing),the Hebrews were already in exile from that area, even before they became Jews (Covenant of Abraham). Does that mean they have to have it back for religious reasons, when nobody else displaced since then gets *their* original land back? Besides, didn't the Semites (pre-split before hebrew and arab) "originally" displace some other humans, anyway? How far back do you want to go?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 10:20 AM

OK, Mousethief. The diaspora would be absorbtion into the remainder of the Arab world. By maintaining the camps, they are maintaining an infective source of high level hatred and poverty rather than encouraging the people to get on with their lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 11:03 AM

What in your explanation are "the diaspora"? Usually that refers to Jewish people scattered throughout the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 11:17 AM

I was nine years old when WWII ended. I would never have believed that the wheel could turn that far again in my lifetime but it appears the potential is there.

Why it should be the Jews I don't know but in hard times humankind has always needed - and used - a scapegoat. Currently, in the US the handiest one is the 'illegal immigrant', which frankly I consider a code word.

I don't mean to imply that in America we don't and would never scapegoat Jews, but it seems that Europe has always been closer to that edge than the 'new world' has. Maybe for the very fact that the US is a nation of immigrants.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:13 PM

biLL: "we currently live in a very complex and delicate time in history were we are becoming extremely polarized on political, philosophical, racial, religious views. Paranoia, fear, hatred, revenge is at an all time high. Such remarks from a person of her position, or by anyone does not ease the tension. What she said just adds more fuel to the fire of hatred, ignorance and injustice. Both sides of the equation are hurt from such remarks."

That is so true!...However, the same can be said for over re-actions, and people making issues bigger than they are by immature, hysterical 'politically correct' theatrics of appall!

To give an example, even on here, the accusations of hatred and bigotry, the blowing up of non-issues, is staggering! Whether or not people actually think(?) that or not, or are just posturing themselves, as to align themselves with whatever 'political polarization' du'jour they banter, causes them to be barely believable...unless they are trying to impress, that one could be so superficial, stupid, and shallow!!! ......Keep in mind, that musicians have been thought to be more open minded, and liberal(not in the 'political' sense) in their thinking.

Helen Thomas, has been stellar at times, and then on the other hand, rather polarized, herself. It may be hard to tell whether her 'retirement' was 'safe', because of her age, or politically convenient or diplomatically expeditious. Had she written that, as part of her reporting, would have been one thing, but saying it, offhandedly, in a private conversation, may be another. In any event, it was a dumb remark. What to look for now, will be the backlash, as per aforementioned, in my first paragraph, (after biLL's quote), and if it gives impetus to new, and absurd mid-east policies opinion.

I'm sure if a Native American said the same thing about us, going back to Europe, Africa or Central America, he would be minimalized, and thought to be harmlessly discontented!

I once saw an article, from an interview of me, and I was really pissed off, at what was reported, in what I thought was a confidential thing, I said to the reporter...and told her, not to print that, because of contractual agreements, and as to the issue of publicizing, the fact, that a particular film company and myself, were into negotiations for some submitted material. She printed it, and the name off the company! When I read the article, I went through the roof! Later, a friend, and someone who had been down that road, told me, "If you don't want it reported, never tell a reporter, even in friendship an think it will remain "..off the record"

Since the Obama Administration's policies toward the mid-east, and in regards to Israel, have been 'less pro-Israel', apparently this may be more of an issue, and forcing Thomas to leave, MAY have just been an appeasement, rather than forcing the administrations hand, at fully revealing their own agenda, as to their feelings, in regards to Israel.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:26 PM

In addition to my previous post, to underline the double standard of hypocrisy of politicos, if you say Jews should go back from where they came from, ie. Poland, Germany, America, etc etc, the 'left' goes "Hurray! That's right!!" If you even breathe that illegal aliens should go back home, the same people call you a bigot, hateful and start forming lynch mobs around being against the mythical 'politically correct'!!

It only has the power of what you believe....and where a double standard of hypocrisy is the base, is usually nonsense!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: number 6
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:39 PM

GfS ... just to let you know ... I happen to believe in open borders for all.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:40 PM

If we all went back to where we came from, Africa couldn't hold us...

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:41 PM

I don't know what "left" you mean. I certainly don't feel that way and I don't know of any lefty, or even middle of the road folks who feel that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:56 PM

"Since the Obama Administration's policies toward the mid-east, and in regards to Israel, have been 'less pro-Israel'..."

             And since Jews are the puppet-masters with a hand in Obama's back, this is really hard to figure...

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:56 PM

Katlaughing: "I don't know what "left" you mean. I certainly don't feel that way and I don't know of any lefty, or even middle of the road folks who feel that way."

Such absent mined denial

You don't????????????



number 6: "
GfS ... just to let you know ... I happen to believe in open borders for all."

They are, LEGALLY!


Mrrzy: "If we all went back to where we came from, Africa couldn't hold us..."

See if you could convey that to 'number6', for all those who want to come here!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: number 6
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 02:00 PM

"They are, LEGALLY!"

"See if you could convey that to 'number6', for all those who want to come here!"

clarification required ... please explain

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 02:16 PM

I don't agree with Helen's famously aired views on juden raus but I admire her long career of standing up to power. A lot of reporters could use an injection of her attitude.

All-in-all, I think she's been treated more than fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:14 PM

biLL, hope this clarifies:

number 6 : "GfS ... just to let you know ... I happen to believe in open borders for all.

Then:

Mrrzy: "Mrrzy: "If we all went back to where we came from, Africa couldn't hold us..."

Got it??

P.S., It was just a quip, pointing out the irony of the 'liberal' point of view. There are SO MANY things they say, that contradict their own 'logic'(?)

That said, and I'm not even particularly , a 'Conservative'....I'm just from 'Sanity-Land'

Wink,
GfS