Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs

Subject: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:57 PM

There's a story today on the BBC news website , saying that the festival due to run from 18-20 June hasn't got a music licence because the application for one was sent in too late....

Kitty

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 02:15 PM

Good job that our sailing fleets seemed to manage to sing shantys without obtaining licenses.

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:56 PM

The councils have endless discretion. to say they haven't is pure horlicks. Simple. They don't prosecute.

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Les from Hull
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:05 PM

Yes Dave. Bloody jobsworths - have they never heard of tourism?

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,Blowz sans cookie
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:48 PM

The council don't have discretion in situations like this, unfortunately, Folkiedave, cos they are merely administrating proper statutory law. The organisers only had to give 10 working days notice - it seems a bit of a poor do if they couldn't get the form in on time. In any case, it should only affect stages which are in areas which aren't already covered by existing Premises Licenses (with the live music element covered). Presumably pubs and clubs (if they use these as venues) will already be covered and the article said that at least one of the outdoor stages was covered by a License taken out for the boat show.   
I'm sure it will work out fine in the end and this will just be a minor hiccup.

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Cllr
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:01 PM

as a councillor on licensing i can only agree with the previous poster about the councils discretion any way i hope the situation doesn't affect the festival>
Cllr

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 08:24 PM

Oh no, my favourite weekend of the year...nice to see Exmouth Shantymen being used for the BBC photo, though!

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:03 AM

The council don't have discretion in situations like this, unfortunately, Folkiedave, cos they are merely administrating proper statutory law. The organisers only had to give 10 working days notice - it seems a bit of a poor do if they couldn't get the form in on time.

This is just the same old jobsworth excuses and it is not good enough. So the organisers made an admin error. Does this small error really have to be compounded so that it is allowed to threaten or limit the event in any way? No of course not.

Where there is a will to find a solution, there is always a way. It is the will that is lacking in this case it is and yet another example of power without responsibilty.

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:45 AM

We'll have to force the groups to sing indoors in premises that already have an entertainment licence."

Lateral thinking is not something that our LAs are good at but all that is required is for the organisers to arrange for members of a local Morris side to dance to the music.

The event will then be exempt from all entertainment licensing as a performance of Morris dancing.

And if the singing was undertaken from the back of a moving vehicle, again this is exempt.

There are many other such ways to work around a small admin error and this council, who have many responsibilties other than licensing - should be actively engaged in finding them.

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 04:14 AM

We performed at a local fete recently and I know that the organisers had to go through all sorts of hoops to get the correct licences. Given that it was all for charity I know some of the organisers got to the stage of thinking - why bother. I do hope the Council/ Government can streamline these regulations or produce an easy guide pack - ' how to put on a public event' with a deadicated helpline number.

However - the good news. Not only did the fete have a goodly amount of folk music from us - they raised over £1000 for the air ambulance.

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 02:24 PM

Tug - the picture on the BBC website is so blurry that you're about the only recognisable member of Exmouth Shantymen! Is that Tony banging the drum?

Kitty

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:51 PM

The council don't have discretion in situations like this, unfortunately, Folkiedave, cos they are merely administrating proper statutory law

Nonsense. They have discretion to prosecute or not. In Sheffield the Lady Mayor danced to amplified music in the Town Centre. The council called it all (ballroom/reggae/hip-hop etc) morris dancing and dancing of a similar nature to get around the law. When I pointed out that it was still illegal (amplified music) they shrugged their shoulders. They would have had problems prosecuting anyone else for the same offence - and they haven't. Eventually they licenced the whole of the city centre. It is down to an individual council's interpretation of the law.

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 08:13 PM

No Kitty, that's Martin, our beloved leader. Tony is the one one the extreme left, as you look, with a red kneckerchief.

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 08:15 PM

Oh, and late lamented John nettleton is on the extreme right. ( BTW, intrigued as to why I am so recognisable....can guess really!)

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:20 AM

Ah well, Tony's not all there..... missed John at the Pennymoor Song & Ale last weekend, because that's where I last saw him, the weekend before Falmouth two years ago...

Kitty

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:43 AM

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/World-Cup-music-event-cancelled.6353303.jp

Can anyone explain the logic involved here? This live music (and the Shanty Festival) require additional entertainment licensing and are prevented or limited for the lack of it but the showing of live TV sport (along with a cheap offer) does not require any additional licensing and is not presumed to present any risks that may require it.

What is so risky about live music?

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:08 AM

Can anyone explain the logic involved here?

It's the great god football, Shambles. Anything to do with it is waved through with the magic wand of commerce, while music events, particulary folk ones, don't put much into the coffers and therefore must be evil.

It is the same logic that allows football 'fans' to wreck town centres, intimidate people and generaly misbehave while music fans and the rest of us pay the price.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 08:14 AM

It's pure philistinism....Live muisic, no, Karaoke, fine, no matter how loud. Small stage with acoustic act...no way...giant screen with football match....go ahead!

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,Peter Nelson
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:08 PM

The councils have endless discretion. to say they haven't is pure horlicks. Simple

I don't know how it is in the UK, but I've been involved in local government here in the US, and on many things involving public meetings and events there are statutory requirements that advanced notice must be given and local government has no discretion to overrule these.

These laws were written for the protection of the public so people could make appropriate plans or arrangements to deal with noise, congestion, etc, or in some cases so there would be time for a comment or response before whatever it was actually took place.   So I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Cornwall Council's hands were tied on this matter.

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:44 PM

So I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Cornwall Council's hands were tied on this matter.

There is no need for assumptions.

Those of us who have experience of the way this works here in England and wales KNOW for rock-bottom certain that if the Local Council's in question want events to proceed, they will find a way to enable them and also KNOW for rock-bottom certain that the opposite is also the case. There are many examples of this......

The local interpretation and enforcement of Entertainment Licensing does not in fact have any of the certainty that you assume is the case. It is obvious that the whole point of devolving it to the local level assumes a great deal of local flexibilty - if none were available, what would be the point of this?

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 09:04 PM

Kitty said: "Tug - the picture on the BBC website is so blurry that you're about the only recognisable member of Exmouth Shantymen! Is that Tony banging the drum?"

Tony said: Kitty - you know full well I NEVER bang drums. Or any other so-called musical instruments. To suggest otherwise is blasphemy!

Then Kitty dug deeper by saying: "Ah well, Tony's not all there..... "

I will be all there at Sidders, as I was at the very successful Falmouth Shantyfest this year. Despite prophets of gloom....

Tony, the Anchorman

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 06:09 AM

I will be all there at Sidders, as I was at the very successful Falmouth Shantyfest this year. Despite prophets of gloom....

There is a rather strange logic here. It appears to be that things are alright really as long as events turn out in practice to be not quite as bad as some thought they might be.

This is usually the case because those who are presented with these sorts of problems by a local authority will, like the legs of swimming swan, be paddling franticly under the water to ensure things will go well.

The event would have been even more successful had the local authority itself provided the same sort of effort to ensure the event's continued succsess and one can only hope that other authorities will learn from this and that the legislation is changed to prevent any repeat.

And I am not sure if anyone here could be described as "prophets of doom" and perhaps any criticism over this event can be placed where it belongs?

Subject: RE: Falmouth Shanty fest UK licensing probs
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 01:44 PM

http://www.falmouthshout.com/festival.html

The 2010 FestivalAnother successful, and truly international, festival took place on June 18-20. The publicity following problems with entertainment licences seemed to raise the profile of the festival - proving the old adage 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'.

We have already received a significant amount of positive feedback from audiences, groups and local press and we await the verdict from our partners at RNLI on the financial outcome.

We will be holding early meetings to plan next year's festival, starting with a decision on dates, which will be in the middle of June, but watch this space for precisely when…

As a sign-off to the 2010 festival, we would like to thank all our sponsors, especially Steve Skinner (and Betty), Falmouth Town Council and the BIDS Group, all the groups who supported the festival and everyone who came along to enjoy the sunshine and music.
We look forward to seeing you all next year. We will be meeting over the summer to set dates for next year, which we will announce here as soon as they are agreed.