Pub music in Scotland?

Subject: Pub music in Scotland?
From: buddhuu
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 12:28 PM

My wife and I usually go to SW Ireland for holidays - largely for the pub music.

We're thinking about maybe visiting SW Scotland this year. Probably somewhere around the west coast, not too far up. Maybe near Ayr. I don't have a clue where to look for pub music sessions in that (or any other) part of Scotland.

Anyone got any pointers?

Thanks.

Rick

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: patriot1314
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 02:29 PM

Wellingtons Bar in Ayr has a regular Sunday night session.
It's been running for the past 19 years, good mix of traditional and all sorts.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 02:53 PM

It's nowhere near where you're going, but for anybody else who's heading to the highlands. Dave Goulder and I run a session on Wednesday nights, at the Achness Hotel, Rosehall, Sutherland.

BTW, there will be a musical weekend of songs, sessions, and swigging, at this hotel, last weekend in October, for anybody who's interested.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,Allan C
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:20 PM

If you make it across to the Borders, every Friday at Kelso we have an open-mic in the Black Swan from around 8PM then move over to the Cobbles Inn after 10pm for a pub session until about 1am. Everyone's welcome to join in or just listen - and hopefully enjoy :-)

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 05:41 PM

Rick, you don't give any dates (maybe best not to on a public forum!) but there are a number of festivals coming up, at which there should be plenty of sessions:
Newcastleton (Borders) first weekend in July
Stonehaven (a wee bit S of Aberdeen) 8th-11th July
Hebridean Celtic (Stornoway, Outer Hebrides) 14th-17th July
Rolling Hills (Melrose, Borders) 23rd-25th July
Falkland Big Tent (Fife) - same weekend
Lomond (Balloch, S end of Loch Lomond) 30th July -1st August
Auchtermuchty (Fife) 13th-15th August
Innerleithen (Borders) 20th-22nd August
Kirriemuir (Angus) 3rd -5th September
Linlithgow (15 miles W of Edinburgh) 8th-12th September
Douglasdale (west centrql lowlands) 17th-19th September
Jura (inner Hebrides)24th-26th September

Pretty well all of these have their own websites, so a quick Google will get you the details.

Also I believe there is a monthly session at a pub somewhere up in Glen Trool Galloway forest) with Jim Bainbridge.

Good luck!

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Zen
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 06:59 PM

Pub sessions in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Stirling and Dunblane (and a few other Central Scotland places) too. PM me for details if you're in that area.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: buddhuu
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 07:10 PM

Thanks for the replies so far! :-)

Please keep them coming. The more leads to check out the better.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 08:04 PM

Portpatrick Folk Festival (near Stranraer) in September.

As far as I know it's wall-to-wall Irish, so I've never considered going to it. There isn't much except Irish music at any folk event in southwest Scotland, except the Girvan festival (which you've missed).

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,John J (on safari)
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 06:32 AM

The wrong bit of Scotland, but I believe there are frequent sessions in Dunkeld, it's just a matter of who turns up and starts playing. Not sure of the name of the pub / hotel, but as you enter the town from the bridge it's the first turning on the right - the pub is virtually facing you.

JJ

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Nick
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 08:40 AM

I was in Arran recently and they have a mixed session / song on a Sunday night in the Ormidale in Brodick, and two on a Tuesday; one at the Tsurig bar in Whiting Bay which I really enjoyed and a Bluegrass one on the same night in the Catacol Hotel. There may also be odd other things - if you look for the Arran Folk festival there are contacts etc

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: buddhuu
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 09:02 AM

Cheers, guys - Nick especially. The Arran ones may be do-able. :-)

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: brezhnev
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 09:16 AM

if you find yourself anywhere near the Machars, go to the Whaup at Whauphill.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Nick
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 07:34 PM

Pleasure. The Arran crowd were very friendly and welcoming and it's a while since I played in a session with two harps and a set of small pipes. My wife and I got included early on and sang and played. It was a really nice mixture of songs and tunes.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 09:17 PM

Arran Folk Festival was last week!
The place mentioned in Dunkeld (Perthshire) is the Taybank: used to belong to Dougie Maclean: it's still a music pub, with some resident instruments

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 08 Sep 16 - 03:51 PM

Just in case anyone takes the long road to the House o Hill in Glentrool, near Newton Stewart for a session- I believe things still happen there, but we gave it up a few years ago when it changed from being an old fashioned, rundown old Scottish pub to a bistro/restaurant with a bar.
They sold good real ale last time I was there,and the country is lovely, but but it was no use any more for the kind of music session I like. Am now finding the real thing in Ireland.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Sep 16 - 07:17 PM

This weekend is Linlithgow Folk Festival:

http://www.linlithgowfolk.com/index.php/news/215-the-18th-linlithgow-folk-festival-programme

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Johnny J
Date: 09 Sep 16 - 08:26 AM

Sadly, good pub sessions are declining in recent years. The trend seems to be towards "Open Mic" nights and similar or booked performers with PA etc.

Possibly, this is down to noisy pubs and the management's desire to attract more punters(Though they usually tend to prefer big football screens)but there's also a tendency for many musicians and singers who just want to be heard themselves as opposed to wanting to share the music with others.

Also, many of those sessions which do exist seem to attract singer/strummer types and/or afficiandos of American music. :-(

There are, of course, still some good places worth seeking out. Moniaive Fesival(Now past, second weekend in May) is a great weekend too.
Also, there's a few good places "Up North" but these are eiher just weekly or even more irregular.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 16 - 01:07 PM

Moniaive Bluegrass Festival - September 23-25. Always sessions in the Hotel and Pub - but Bluegrass/Old Timey/Americana. A super festival, the only Bluegrass Festival left in Scotland

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Sep 16 - 05:56 PM

Another reason for the decline is ossification. A lot of sessions have had the same core of regulars for many years, and they evolve a conservative culture where a newcomer is discouraged from bringing in any new material. They'll either meet with "we used to play that but we got bored with it" or "we don't already know it so we're not going to try".

Some sessions have setlists. These are an unmitigated disaster.

A lot of us got involved in Scottish traditional music because of its limitless variety and unpredictability; there's far more in it than anyone could experience and learn in a lifetime. You'd never guess that from watching a roomful of old people playing the same repertoire every week off a table covered with paper.

Not all sessions are like that, but far too many are.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:26 PM

so why doesn't it happen in Scotland as well as Ireland?

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:43 PM

Different motivation Patriot.....the young singers and musicians in Scotland seem to be more interested in finding a saleable sound than reflecting the culture of their native land.
The Irish have an organised musical culture dept which actively promotes traditional music in all its forms through competitions and street playing.....just for the sheer joy of it

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 03:08 PM

Bit more to it, I think- there are plenty of very poor 'traditional' but manic musical groups in Ireland who seek fame & fortune (and money of course) who having been acclaimed by the media head off on US tours, and while most have plenty of virtuosity there's little else to offer except frantic activity.

nb a suitable Irish language name for such bands is essential!!

Thats probably what similar Scottish groups would like as well, but it doesn't explain why the informal small scale scene is so much smaller in Scotland?

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:31 PM

Surely pub music is mostly C&W in both Scotland and Ireland?

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 02:44 PM

Yes, country & Irish is the standard in Ireland, so-called trad is a very poor second. Didn't know it was similar in Scotland?

The set list 'session' is sadly all too common- i heard one organiser saying to a newcomer-#'you'll need to learn THESE tunes! Oh dear- I think spontaneity is ALL & if it's not there you might as well stay in the house & play alonga CD!

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 19 - 04:14 PM

a local session here in Scotland actually has a numbered set of tunes & the fear an ti actually announces - 'next is No 24'- I kid you not- this in a very nice bar with poor innocent drinkers being very long-suffering- up to now, anyway!!

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: beachcomber
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 02:38 PM

I have to disagree with PATRIOT's assertion that C & W is "Standard in Ireland" it is not so. It depends on which part of the country one visits. Certainly down along the Southern and Western coastal places Trad and/or Traditional music is still most popular. Naturally the various sessions have varying degrees of virtuosity but many are semi-professional also.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 03:09 PM

Go to thesession.org and search for Sessions by county (Ayrshire, Dumfries, Argyll). We use thesession.org every time we travel, whether in the U.S. or abroad. I don’t understand why more sessions don’t list themselves or keep their information up to date. Because they don’t, be sure to check in advance with the pub or other venue.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 03:58 PM

It's always been next to useless, mainly thanks to its admin's refusal to allow any queries about which sessions exist in the discussion pages.

There are quite a few options on Facebook. The Edinburgh Session Hub is okay.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 04:57 PM

Don't know where you live, Beachcomber but PATRIOT is spot on- the standard Sunday night music is still 'Country & Irish'- yes there are plenty of more 'traditional' ones as well, but in a distinct minority, even in the southern & western counties- in fact those areas are a hotbed of C & I !!

Mind you, I think things have improved a bit down there since the 90s when this Geordie was able to make a living playing traditional music for the mainly English tourists in West Cork

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 05:37 PM

"Surely pub music is mostly C&W in both Scotland and Ireland?"
Keich.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 05:56 PM

Every Wednesday at "The Waterside" , Bath Street. Largs. Every Wednesday afternoon, 2-5 pm. Play anything, any tune, song or style, but quite a lot of folkie stuff. Anyone welcome.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 04:54 AM

sounds like fun- wish I was nearer Jim B

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: JHW
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 05:03 AM

Jim Bainbridge is always worth hearing wherever he is!

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: beachcomber
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 06:20 PM

Yes, in Irish pubs with a "cabaret" type of music, principally at week-ends, "Country" bands do play, there are some down our way too, but, if you go to a run -of-the-mill, small town or village pub that has a singer's session, then you won't hear very much C and W , nor C and I either for that matter.
You mention the '90s Patriot ? Have you been travelling much in Ireland of late ??
In my area there are dozens of young traditional musicians, some of whom are even hired to play for the tourists, several nights a week in hotels and larger pubs, and, I don't think we are in any way unique in Ireland.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 16 Jul 19 - 09:08 AM

Patriot was speaking for himself- i was agreeing with him/her & adding that there was very little Irish music in most of the SW coast when I was there, which suited me financially of course!
I know there are lots of musicians of all ages in Ireland, but 'sessions' are still in a minority, and there is little doubt what the majority of IRISH people prefer- it may not be what you would like, or me for that matter, but I just don't accept that Ireland is a lost world of music, where Iarla Leonard & Rita Gallagher are the favourite singers- no, it's Nathan Carter & Lisa Ann McHugh.
We ran a B&B and it was rather disappointing to have to tell guests that there were hardly any traditional sessions in the area, the best run by ex folkie English and German musicians! It's a bit better now, but it's still a minority interest.

I've been back to West Cork in the past few years, and as for your asking if I'd been in Ireland recently, I lived in Leitrim for 9 years & ran just such a singing session as you mention in a receptive pub, but C & I in this 'traditional' region (and also Fermanagh, where I spent a year ) is still by far the most popular music.
Getting back to the subject, there is certainly a lot more interest in either kind of pub music than in Scotland

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 16 Jul 19 - 10:48 AM

but there are a hell of a lot more pubs in Ireland!

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: beachcomber
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 07:33 AM

Unfortunately Jim, the number of pubs in Ireland IS decreasing by the year for a variety of reasons ,and none of them to do with Irish music :-)
If you had mentioned that you'd lived in Leitrim then I would have understood straight away why you believe that "Country" is "Standard" in Ireland. I can tell you that, in the counties farther south, you will be able to access traditional music almost anywhere, be it at sessions, festivals, "Summer Schools" or merely purchasing recordings.
Of course, watching RTE channels or TV 3, one would never imagine it to be so.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 01:10 PM

Sorry, beachcomber- my experience of 20 years in all parts of Ireland is contrary to your statement. There is great 'traditional' music in all parts of Ireland, some wonderful & some crap.

BUT it is not true that it's the dominant music in ANY part of Ireland, including Clare & Donegal- there is no way any town/village community festival (not folk festival) would feature anything but a country & Irish band for the main dance night!

Think we'll just have to agree to disagree here- back to the subject

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 09:55 AM

are there any new music sessions/singing sessions & where is there a reliable list?

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 01:56 PM

Edinburgh Session Hub on Facebook.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 08:42 PM

Can you narrow it down a bit, crumbly, and say which area you are interested in? Lots going on, but maybe a 30-50 mile radius might help you get relevant answers.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:20 AM

Well, centred on Dumfries at the moment

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:45 AM

Most of the pubs in this area of Argyll do not encourage folk music at all, quite the reverse of the situation up until the early 2000s.
Most concentrate on meals and are not interested in scruffy, noisy folkies, who live on chips and buy their booze in supermarkets.
The world and society has changed, as has the direction of folk music, which in this area has become what is sometimes referred to as "Ceilidh Music", involving acoustic instruments and vocals completely overwhelmed by drums and keyboards played at full volume. Dance has degenerated into jumping up and down in the one spot in time to the beat. All this has of course no relationship to the wonderful folk music and dance which was enjoyed at the Ceilidhs in my youth.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 07:06 AM

This is near Dumfries and might be worth a look:

Moniaive links

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 11:16 AM

You could try looking on this list (all place names are clickable links.)
http://www.scottish-folk-music.com/clubs.htm

BUT the info isn't always up-to-date, so check with the contact given before venturing out: and that's not the fault of the guy who runs the site: he just puts in what people give him in the way of info, and if the clubs/sessions don't update him, that's their fault, not his! Dumfries doesn't seem to be listed, but there other places within striking distance.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Nick
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 12:15 PM

I met the guy who started TheSession.org in a different world than music in his day job. But I know he plays.

Hard to think that he wouldn't wish to keep his site relevant he was always very cutting edge in what he did and lectured on. I will ask him. He won't remember me I'm sure.

I love Jack Campin's comment (Date: 09 Sep 16 - 05:56 PM) about ossification.

I don't a lot about music in Scotland as Arran has always been one of the few places that I have been to over time - my dad's fault.

Some years ago we went and there was NO music. They had all got bored with each other and played themselves out.

One of the things I have always liked about music is new and challenge. Otherwise you stay the same. In the year we went up with no music we could have found to play with and started a session just people didn't want to the we did it last week thing and last year and...

This year we had a lot of fun. Arrived Saturday. Played a gig at Crofters Music Bar Sunday lunchtime. Joined in the (long running and I recognised lots of folk) session on Sunday night at the Ormidale. We went to a session at the Brodick Bar another night (interesting). Played an impromptu bit of fun at the Lochranza hotel (the owner has more whiskey than you can believe) and played another gig at Crofters on the Friday

We could have played more if we'd chosen to.

We only played American Pie as a request at Lochranza once and only part way through :)

Perhaps it's a freak place. But I have yet to have travelled anywhere where you can't find music (played in Crete this year just playing with friends and acquaintances in a bar - could have played every night)

Music is always everywhere. Just finding it

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: Nick
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 08:01 AM

Jack Campin mentioned that Sessions on thesession.org is not what it could be. I had an email back off the owner this morning

> Someone was saying - offsite - that your sessions bit doesn't work because it's not up to date and YOU won't let it be current. And I thought - that doesn't sound like the man I met.
>
> Can I tell him he's wrong.

Indeed you can. Anybody can edit a session (to mark it as no longer running). Anyone can add a session. So if someone is grumbling that something is out of date, tell 'em to fix it! :-)

> I trust you still play - mandola and octave mandola if I remember

Close—mandolin and bouzouki. And yes, playing more than ever these days.

Cheers,

Jeremy

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 08:29 AM

AFAIC thesession.org is the most worthwhile site on the web and where I spend about 90% of my internet time. Far from being "next to useless" it's an incredible fount of traditional tunes (and more recent ones, as well) and information about them.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 09:58 AM

The issue isn't the listings. He's never let people ask about sessions in the discussion forum, as you can here - that always gets you more current info. What it's next to useless for is finding sessions. (One of its most knowledgeable contributors would frequently get banned for not mincing his words - one time after Jeremy did that, he decided to put the map location for his own session on a motorway intersection 20 miles out of town, and it stayed that way for a long time).

I haven't looked in there for years except to find tunes, which it certainly is useful for. I don't post to places where admins delete carefully thought-out posts on some batty private whim, or edit my posts so they don't make sense any more. That's also why I'm not on the Mudcat FB group now.

I would bet that TheSession doesn't list any session I currently go to. I don't intend to change that.

Subject: RE: Pub music in Scotland?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 08:34 PM

A link for thesession, centred on Dumfries
https://thesession.org/sessions/nearby?latlon=54.985,-4.362

Folk Club Map
doesn't have anything close
(open in a browser, not maps)
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1plE0C69JOiO8FotbmDlDvE2qxbM&ll=55.185%2C-3.582&z=10

fwiw
There are some Scottish links on an older thread,
none of the ones I tried had anything for Dumfries
thread.cfm?threadid=153394#3906112

Freddy