The best of the UK Concertina players

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 10:17 AM

he may be the best in your opinion,but this bring us to a point raised before ,subjective opinion.
now there is no denying he[robert harbron] is a very good player,I certainly prefer him to some of the others mentioned,whose playing[ im0] are reminsecent of typewriters, but that he or anyone is the best is just an over simplification, there is no best, music is not like sport, music is a very individualisitic genre.
when i listen to nic jones or martin carthy, i enjoy them both, i dont have to make immature judgements that this one is better than the other, they are different, but both very good.
likewise there are many good concertina players,all of whom are different[thank god for that], and whose differences in style provide and maintain interest.
to say Robert Harbron is better than Alistair Anderson or Steve Turner is rather like saying an orange is better than an apple or a banana.
finally to lump all 3 concertina systems together is just silly., it is akin to comparing a c melody sax with an alto sax or a soprano sax.
the[EC, ANGLO, DUET are three totally different instrument] all with different advantages and disadvantages

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 11:19 AM

Dick
What classification does a Polish Chemnitzer Concertina come under.

Example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHNKnifOrJg

Looks more like a melodeon to me.

I am off to Specsavers!

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Roger Gawley
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 11:29 AM

Well, they are all very good, but so are some younger players: Michael Jary, Emily Ball (her dad is pretty good too) and Alex Wade whose mum is not bad) spring to mind.

As others have already said, there is no "best" but there are a lot of very good.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: oggie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:25 PM

A chemnitzer is definitely a concertina not a melodeon. All the lefthand chords have to individually formed from the notes, not just press a button like a melodeon or accordion. Imagine an anglo concertina on steroids with a range of about five octaves.

Steve

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 07:32 AM

whether, I am best or not does not bother me ,
the only thing that bothers me is that when I do a gig I try and put on a professional performance,and play /sing to the best of my abilty
however I have an English Concertina song accompaniment tutor[which is the most comprehensive one available to my knowledge] and an English Concertina tutor, plus a new cd Windy Old Weather, visit my website.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 10:21 AM

judgements on virtousity are best made by players of a particular system, very few other[ to my knowledge] than A Anderson, G Cutty, lea Nicholson AND myself have attempted RAGTIME PEICES or duet style [on the English], with out double tracking.
then we must consider skill at double tracking, Lea Nicholson comes into the picture again, on both his lps [but particularly the second one]
but is technical virtuosity of paramount importance, well when combined with musicality, yes, but not as in an end in itself.
   musicality is a subjective opinion, personally I respect every player who has put in hours of practice.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 01:40 PM

As Alan Day pointed out . there are different instruments that all get called Concertinas and any ability on (Say) Anglo does not mean a similar ability on Duet (Of whichever breed)
However Keth Kendrick is WELL worthy of extra mention . as to MY ear he seems just as capable on Anglo as on English !

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:24 PM

ye, keth kendrick is good, but keith kendrick is even better, oh and 100

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:55 PM

100???
58, it says here...
(this'll be 59)

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 09:00 AM

My all-time UK favorites - JK, AA,(GW with L plates on)

My World favorite - Noel Hill

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: mikesamwild
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 06:09 AM

Have we squeezed the last drops out of this one?

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Alan Day
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 07:06 AM

I hope so.
Having listened to about 300 players in the last six years even a beginner can come up with a new approach, or style that is interesting.
It also comes down to the type of music you enjoy.
Al

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Stockport
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 07:04 PM

I looked for a clip of Tim Laycock on U tube but couldn't find any of him playing one!He is one of my favourite concertina players though.
I've seen Brian Peters play Dallas Rag on what I think is an Anglo --

Saw this bloke on U tube who also looks very handy!...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqcosJHAepA&feature=related

Now,to someone who don't play concertina, he looks impressive!

Peter

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Surreysinger
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 12:46 PM

Jeff Lefferts - Hayden duet player (who I believe is going to be on Duet International as well) ... I think I remember someone saying that he's been playing for 4 years. Al?

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Stockport
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 07:39 PM

Yep, Jeff Lefferts,I've had another look and there's lots of stuff.
here's the link again , it may work this time


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqcosJHAepA&feature=related

He's got loads of stuff on there and its fun.
I saw a u tube clip of Stan Laurel playing concertina and that was well worth a look! Since he's from Ulverston it makes him Uk concertina player!
Peter

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: mikesamwild
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 07:24 AM

I was just listening to Holly Geraghty (Anglo) and Jonathan Roche (box) a great couple of young players and we haven't scratched the surfcae of the plethora of young and olde Irish Anglo players.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Alan Day
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 08:21 AM

I have been enjoying some recordings this week ,just received from Jon Boden and Paul McCann , very nice Duet playing.
Al

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 10:21 AM

we haven't scratched the surfcae of the plethora of young and olde Irish Anglo players.

That's probably because it's outside the brief of this thread. Hundreds of fine concertina players here but maybe they deserve a thread of their own.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 10 - 12:30 PM

yes ,Peter, correct. SADLY[IMO] very few of them use it for song accompaniment.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 10:44 AM

I don't know, about it being sad I mean. It's just not something people do around here.

I think you mentioned this before (recently) here or elsewhere, I could come up with Frank Harte as a singer who used a concertinaplayer in his backing occasionally, not many more (although Dolores Keane did a bit as well but I am not sure now she sang to her own playing or just backed John Faulkner).

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 11:01 AM

I have seen one video where Dolores used it on one track, Liam Clancy[EC] used it of course, But when you think of the concertina song accompanists from England,SteveTurner Louisa Killen, Dick Miles, Damien Barber, Keith Kendrick[Anglo and English], John Kirkpatrick, TimLaycock[Duet],Brian Peters,PeterBellamy,MtheGM,Robert Harbron, Sandra Kerr.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 11:26 AM

and Tony Rose,Alf Edwards,Dave Townsend,Harry Boardman,Mark Dowding,VeraAspey,Sara Graves,RogerDigby.HarryScurfield

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 11:37 AM

furthermore the irish concertina tradition is in danger of disappearing up its own rectum, there is too much slavish copying of ornamentation, too many people trying to win competitions by over ornamenting.and toomany people slavishly copying Noel Hill, and too many idiots who assume that there is only one way to play ITM.
that was why the lkate Kitty Hayes was such a refreshing change

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 12:45 PM

I would have thought that someone would have mentioned Sandra Kerr by now. I once heard her and Pam Bishop playing a duet together - and they were absolutely awesome!

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 02:03 PM

Good Soldier Schweik said :-

< furthermore the irish concertina tradition is in danger of disappearing up its own rectum, there is too much slavish copying of ornamentation, too many people trying to win competitions by over ornamenting.and toomany people slavishly copying Noel Hill, and too many idiots who assume that there is only one way to play ITM.
that was why the late Kitty Hayes was such a refreshing change >

Hear hear !!!

Kitty Hayes was a delightful lady and a wonderful player in that old uncluttered, steady style where the tune itself really mattered.

Players these days are all trying to 'out-ornament' each other while trying to win the race to the end of the tune !

The rigid teaching of the Noel Hill method, now also taught by so many of his ex pupils, has killed off so much individuality and stifled innovation.

At Clancy week some years ago Noel was preaching at the Sat night concert and was bemoaning the loss of all the different regional styles of music in the west of Ireland, ie East clare, West clare ... etc ...

He then introduced 6 of his star pupils, none over about 18 years old, who 'trooped' on stage, each with a Jeffries under the left arm, sat in a line and all played the same tune over-ornamented and far too fast, in perfect unison with each other. Although technically skilled, nay close to 'perfect', they might just as well have been robots.

I got up and walked out before my anger & frustration got the better of me

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 02:15 PM

I did mention Sandra kerr

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Bob M
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 04:00 PM

The Best..... Roger Edwards

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:17 PM

Great thread !! Thanks to all for ading information .. Dick I am so sorry to hear of your fire .. Not great . All the best to all here . Guy

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: treewind
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:33 PM

"Kitty Hayes was a delightful lady and a wonderful player in that old uncluttered, steady style where the tune itself really mattered."

So is Mary Macnamara.
(not that I'm an expert on Irish music - I gave it up years ago, but I heard her play a couple of years ago and I know what I like)

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 07:13 PM

thanks Guy, it was a bad thing, but I have my health and still have a tina to play.
yes, I like Marys style too

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 03:24 AM

How are the five note rolls coming along Dick? You really should make up your mind whether or not you like them. ;-)

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Alan Day
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 03:49 AM

I certainly would not have walked out on young players trying to play the concertina, I applaud Noel Hill for the tuition he gives to players. Young players learn the basics and then formulate their own styles based on what they like. Whatever Noel has taught them will set them up for life. Just in the same way Dick you and I are offering tutors to help players learn the instrument. If you introduced five youngsters that cloned your playing I would stand and applaud their efforts and congratulate you on your advice to them.
A classic example of this is Kate McNamara a superb Irish Concertina player that has been tutored by Mary McNamara (no relation). She has taken all that Mary has to teach her and added her own style to it. In exactly the same way that the Noel Hill youngsters will develop their own style.
Al

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 04:22 AM

Personally I get very tired of people who whack around the old platitudes like it was done before. Especially if they can be found elsewhere advocating the use of rolls on the English concertina.

It's a tunnel vision view. In fact there's great variety in approaches among concertina players in Ireland, both young and old. It's nonsensical to give out to players in their mid teens when found playing like their teacher. If you look at the generation of players older than them, say those now in their mid twenties and produced by the same teaching method, you'll find styles develop, new directions are found.

I am not a big fan of Noel Hill or his method but I did send my son to him for lessons for a few years. Why? Because he is a good and thorough teacher who teaches his pupils to find their way around the concertina.

He's been taking his best Willie week pupils out on stage during the concertina concert for the past thirty years or so. I have seen Dympna O Sullivan, Edel Fox, Yvonne Griffin and who knows go through the ranks. They played the tunes they learned the week before the concert and then they went home and found their own voices.

Some years ago, maybe ten even, Yvonne Griffin was talking about the background of her concertina-playing. 'Noel Hill opened up the rows for us' (She was talking about both herself and her sister Lourda) implying they found new possibilities, more room to bring out the music they had in their heads. And that can only be a good thing, can't it? Yvonne is definitely among my top three concertina players, great heart in her music.

And moaning everything used to be better? That isn't what it used to be either, is it.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 07:56 AM

Idont think I said that anything used to be better.
neither is it Noel Hills fault, any more than it is Martin Carthys fault, if people slavishly copy Martins style,
The problem[ the disappearance of regional styles] however does not go away and is not helped by Comhaltas who tend to promote a homeogeonised irish style, and is not helped by tutors, if they do not make pupils aware of different styles.
Peter, I am getting rather fed up with your personal attacks upon me, if you visit my you tube site you will see that as well as five note rolls, i advocate four note rolls, that is a single grace note[note above] , before the main note and a single grace note[note below]before the next main note[ example dotted crotchet in jig time], I also advocate playing a dotted crotchet as four notes two semi quavers two quavers or one quaver two semiquavers one quaver, I ALSO ADVOCATE [SOMETIMES PLAYING THE NOTE UNORNAMENTED],or with just a double stop.soIattempt to show different possibilities, and allow pupils to make up their minds what to do themselves.

"How are the five note rolls coming along Dick? You really should make up your mind whether or not you like them. ;-)"
this statement is a classic peice of flaming by Peter Laban.
my answer to trolls like PETER is this, it depends on how I am feeling at the time and the speed of the music[five not rolls are more satisfactory at a slower speed],
in fater peices i use four note embellishments,
I rarely play the same peice twice anyway furthermore I dont let anyone else tell me how i should play.
so Peter go away and in the words of the bantry girls lament
" And the piper with his bellows may go home and blow the fire "

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 08:03 AM

I am not telling you how to play, dick. Why would I?

I haven't complained about anyone's playing here, not have I suggested anything is disappearing up a hole, have I? That was someone else, and I was replying to that comment.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 08:37 AM

"A classic example of this is Kate McNamara a superb Irish Concertina player that has been tutored by Mary McNamara (no relation). She has taken all that Mary has to teach her and added her own style to it."   
exactly, Alan,lets hope there is still room for many styles in irish music, otherwise the music will ossify.
My tutors are a song accompaniment tutor and an English Concertina tutor, the latter contains Scottish, English and Irish tunes, it make suggestions and discusses alternative ornamentation, at no point does it specify that there is only one way of playing ornaments, it is atutor to help people learn the English Concertina[nothing more nothing less].
Peter, Irish music will ossify and become monotonous if everyone ends up playing in the same style,
tutors have a responsibilty to try and show at least two different styles, or point pupils in the direction of recordings that show different styles.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 08:45 AM

Peter, Irish music will ossify and become monotonous if everyone ends up playing in the same style,
tutors have a responsibilty to try and show at least two different styles, or point pupils in the direction of recordings that show different styles.

Really Dick, I asked you before, read my posts before you address me. And I really can't see why you address this bit at me here.

I think I made the point above that a lot of people find their own feet.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 09:37 AM

"How are the five note rolls coming along Dick? You really should make up your mind whether or not you like them. ;-)" quote PETER lABAN.
that sounds like you are trying to tell me what to do ,Peter.
ITM consists of songs a well as tunes, in my opinion, it would be more interesting if more of the irish concertina players used their concertinas to accompany songs, I like SEAN NOS singing, but a little more variety might be acheived with the addition of concertina accompaniment, it is certainly one area where concertina players in England appear to have explored in more depth.
of course not all songs benefit from accompaniment, and the skill of a good performer is to know when to accompany and when not to.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 02:28 PM

"And moaning everything used to be better? That isn't what it used to be either, is it."
nobody has done that, however it used to be different[not necessarily better but different], have a listen to PADDY IN THE SMOKE,the players sound like they are enjoying themselves, they sound like people who worked all the week, and really looked forward to playing some music on a sunday, and that is what happened, now it sounds to me[that sometimes] we have people of very polished technique, who sometimes can sound like they are on automatic pilot and a little bit bored, who can blame them, if they have just done their twenty third gig in twenty four days.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,An Leathcheann Beag
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 04:36 PM

I like SEAN NOS singing, but a little more variety might be acheived with the addition of concertina accompaniment.<-i>

Oh dear, oh dearie, dearie me.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 12:00 PM

Foc il leat

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 12:22 PM

Always ready for a polite reply

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 12:43 PM

I am polite to you Peter,[ brain specialist].
I agree with the OP they are worth a listen.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 01:53 PM

We could argue about the polite bit, but I won't.

Your [ brain specialist] is beyond me. Care to explain?

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,paul downes
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 05:49 PM

There has, amazingly, been no mention of Martyn Bradley, surely one of the most adept in every style from Handel through Playford and Irish to jazz. i suppose it is because he now plays drums!

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Alan Day
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 07:25 PM

Hallo Paul long time no see.
Martyn is listed by me above.
Al

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 10:00 AM

has anyone mentioned Frances Wilkins?

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: oggie
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 05:45 PM

Pedant point, but Eire is not in the UK and it has a totally different tradition and styles of concertina plying.

Steve

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 04:24 PM

jim younger

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 04:25 PM

100, leadfingers