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Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)

scouse 15 Jun 10 - 08:18 AM
The Fooles Troupe 15 Jun 10 - 08:32 AM
SteveMansfield 15 Jun 10 - 08:33 AM
Bernard 15 Jun 10 - 12:17 PM
scouse 16 Jun 10 - 03:28 AM
SteveMansfield 16 Jun 10 - 05:09 AM
Bernard 16 Jun 10 - 08:12 AM
scouse 16 Jun 10 - 12:09 PM
Bernard 16 Jun 10 - 12:18 PM
Tattie Bogle 16 Jun 10 - 07:05 PM
Joe Offer 16 Jun 10 - 07:15 PM
Tangledwood 16 Jun 10 - 09:30 PM
SteveMansfield 17 Jun 10 - 03:56 AM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Jun 10 - 03:59 AM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Jun 10 - 04:00 AM
SteveMansfield 17 Jun 10 - 05:48 AM
JohnInKansas 17 Jun 10 - 05:51 AM
Tangledwood 17 Jun 10 - 05:05 PM
Uncle_DaveO 17 Jun 10 - 05:24 PM
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Subject: Tech: How do I get rid of..
From: scouse
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 08:18 AM

Recently two Microsoft updates came on my comp. I allowed it to install. Now the buggers are there permanently. Don't need them but how do I get rid of the sods. In anticipation ...
As Aye,
Phil.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of..
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 08:32 AM

A few details of which ones would be helpful...


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of..
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 08:33 AM

Bits of information that may help people to assist you would include, but are not limited to, ...

Which MS operating system?

Which updates, service packs, etc. do you have already?

Which updates have aroused your ire, and why do you want to uninstall them?

How do you know you don't need them?

MS updates all have a number that begins with K or MS, so try Googling that number (with the K or MS on front, e.g. MS001-0001) and seeing what they do and whether you can safely get rid of them without breaking something else that you do want that relies on them.

And if you've downloaded an update from anywhere other than through the automatic updates or the official Microsoft website, you've probably installed a scamware version and are in deep do-do (which is your fault, not Microsoft's).


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 12:17 PM

One way is to go into Control Panel, Add or Remove Programs, and make sure the 'Show updates' box is ticked... you may have to wait some time!

Then go down the list, find the ones which have rattled your cage and remove them... IF it will let you! Sometimes there are other 'dependant' updates needing removal first.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: scouse
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:28 AM

Hi Guys, Sorry to be so ignorant I'm running Win XP Pro. SP3. The offending articles are....

1. Microsoft NET Frameworks 3.5 SP1 and NET Framework 2.0 SP2 Security update for Windows 2000,Windows 2003 and Windows XP x86 (KB979909)

2. Microsoft NET Framework 3.5 Update for Windows Server 2003 and Windows XP x86.

As Aye,

Phil.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 05:09 AM

Aha, now we're getting somewhere :)

Those two updates are will only have come onto your machine in the first place if they are necessary.

.Net frameworks are not applications or utilities in their own right, but act as the underpinning foundations for other applications - they contain a whole bundle of utilities and resources and dialogs and low-level interoperabilty stuff and widgets and miscellaneous furniture, fixtures and fittings that are used by any programme which has been created using the .Net framework. Some parts of the Windows operating system and the standard accessories and utilities are reliant on .Net frameworks being present, and many other applications also rely on them for infrastructure and what we .Net developers call 'stuff'.

The first time you install an application that is based on a particular .Net framework, the required framework will install at the same time. When you installed XP Service Pack 3 (or maybe that's how your machine started life) versions 1.1 and 2.0 were installed as part of that if you didn't have them already, and now the update process is keeping them up to date.

Similarly 3.5 will have turned up with the first 3.5 application you installed, and pretty soon you'll find yourself the proud owner of version 4 because applications are starting to hit the market based on that.

The bottom line: if you uninstall those frameworks or those updates, the next time you run any programme which relies on the .Net framework, that program won't work. Unless you are absolutely 100% certain that every single little bit of your computer will run without them, leave well alone.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:12 AM

A problem that can occur after a .NET framework update is that programmes using it may send gobbledegook to your printer. One such programme is Adobe Acrobat Reader.

You should update your printer driver if that happens, though in many cases Windoze Updater will have done it for you.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: scouse
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 12:09 PM

Right guys I'll check the printer and Adobe Acrobat Reader drivers but I think they are all up to date.. but one never knows.

As Aye,

Phil.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 12:18 PM

Off on a slight tangent here... I can't just remember which version of Acrobat Reader 9 had the infamous 'vulnerability', but if you download and install the current version you'll have nothing to worry about.

If you're still using version 8 or earlier, it shouldn't be an issue.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 07:05 PM

There was a problem a while back with some of the .NET updates repeatedly failing to install: I had to go through a very long-winded process of uninstalling all the .NET stuff and re-installing them: there was a lot of advice of varying quality on the Microsoft forums, but that didn't work for me: in the end I got remote assistance and advice from Microsoft and got the whole thing sorted: if you have a genuine Microsoft/Windows package this advice is available to you free of charge.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 07:15 PM

In general, I haven't had any problem with program updates from the major software firms, other than a McAfee update deleting Spotify from my computer.
The updates are made primarily for security purposes, to protect your computer from flaws that may may your computer vulnerable to viruses and worms and such. Every once in a while, an update will have a functional improvement to your program - but most of the time, they're just security updates.
I'd advise accepting most updates, and setting Windows to automatically update. For other programs (like Adobe Reader), occasionally go to "Help" and select "check for updates" (or the like), and see if you're up-to-date. I know conspiracy theorists say otherwise, but most software manufacturers provide updates for your benefit, because they want you to be happy with their products so you'll buy from them again.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: Tangledwood
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:30 PM

There was a problem a while back with some of the .NET updates repeatedly failing to install:

I also had problems a while back with installation of a number of updates. After lots of searching on the MS site I found a script file that repairs registry settings and everything apparently installed properly after running that. I've used it a couple of times since then. These latest .NET updates also wouldn't install for me so I ran that script again and that seems to have solved the problem.

I can't remember now where on the MS site I found the script but think it was associated with an MS Word installation problem.

The script is at the end of this post. To use it copy into notepad and save, then replace the "txt" extension with "cmd". Double click that file and sit back. I don't understand any of what it is doing, so user beware!

cd /d "%ProgramFiles%\Windows Resource Kits\Tools"
subinacl /subkeyreg HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE /grant=administrators=f /grant=system=f
subinacl /subkeyreg HKEY_CURRENT_USER /grant=administrators=f /grant=system=f
subinacl /subkeyreg HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT /grant=administrators=f /grant=system=f
subinacl /subdirectories %SystemDrive% /grant=administrators=f /grant=system=f
subinacl /subdirectories %windir%\*.* /grant=administrators=f /grant=system=f
secedit /configure /cfg %windir%\repair\secsetup.inf /db secsetup.sdb /verbose


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 03:56 AM

Well I *do* understand what Tangledwood's script is doing, and whilst I can see that it might be useful in specific and fairly serious situations, it's not a universal solution I'd recommend.

It basically opens vast areas of the registry and file system to let the installer do whatever the heck it likes. Great and necessary in certain circumstances, but I wouldn't want to gamble on leaving my machine in that wide-open state for ever afterwards ...


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 03:59 AM

The script looks like it is trying to grant access privileges that have been corrupted to deny ability to update things - probably by a previous 'update'....


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:00 AM

So sfmans, can you modify it to run a version afterwards that closes the accesses?


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 05:48 AM

Not that simple, because to go back to the previous state, you'd need to have a record of that previous state in the first place ... you can't just go through all those registry hives and file system locations and remove the permissions because various bits of the OS really, really need them to be set at that level.

The advice not to run that script (I'd like to emphasise, by the way, that I'm not in any way doubting Tangledwood's good intentions) comes free. After that we're into consultancy rates.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 05:51 AM

Generally, if you set up your automatic upgrades to install automatically, Microsoft will ONLY install Critical Security Updates, without other notification.

To qualify as a Critical Update, a change must patch a confirmed vulnerability and in most cases the appearance of attacks using that vulnerability must already have been confirmed "in the wild."

In a very few cases a Critical Update may patch a vulnerability before it has been "published" and applied maliciously, but that's pretty rare - partly because the malicious hackers are well organized and generally implement attacks on newly discovered holes almost as fast as the patches can be developed and tested.

Occasionally, even if you've given permission to install automatically, Microsoft may send an "Important" patch, with a popup on your Startup toolbar that asks if you want to install it. These may sometimes be considered optional; but usually they are a good idea.

To get the really "optional" updates, you MUST GO TO THE MICROSOFT UPDATE SITE and ask for them. It's probably a good idea to check for "optionals" occasionally; but most Optionals are not related to security vulnerabilities that present a significant risk.

It is a mild source of irritation that when Microsoft shows you a popup to say that an update (recommended but not critical) is available, all it says is "Updates are available" with click buttons to "install" or "ask again later."

The (nearly) IDENTICAL message is used by other software builders for updates, some of which can be "automatic downloads;" and NONE OF THEM TELL YOU who the update came from or what it's updating. It does often make a difference to me whether it's an OS update, Flash, PDF Reader, Java, or a whim from Abdul bin Nigerian; but the messages often don't give a clue.

An update to the update popup would significantly enhance security, one would think. Nearly all the people who do this have FAQs on their home sites that warn you NEVER CLICK ANYTHING IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM, and then send you their own stuff without showing an identity.

Stupidity?

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: Tangledwood
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 05:05 PM

Not that simple, because to go back to the previous state, you'd need to have a record of that previous state in the first place ... you can't just go through all those registry hives and file system locations and remove the permissions because various bits of the OS really, really need them to be set at that level.

The advice not to run that script (I'd like to emphasise, by the way, that I'm not in any way doubting Tangledwood's good intentions) comes free. After that we're into consultancy rates.


Sfmans - thank you for explaining what is going on there. Leaving access wide open does not sound like a smart idea.

John - agreed, I'd like to know what updates are for and what value they are to me. As well as that, once I've made a decision not to install one I'd like some way of stopping the nagging "update available" message. That doesn't seem to always be available.


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Subject: RE: Tech: How do I get rid of.. (Microsoft updates)
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 05:24 PM

SFMANS said:

many other applications also rely on them for infrastructure and what we .Net developers call 'stuff'.

I wish you wouldn't rub our noses in that technical jargon!

Dave Oesterreich


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