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Songs of contempt about men

Richard Bridge 17 Jun 10 - 01:20 AM
Long Firm Freddie 17 Jun 10 - 02:03 AM
Richard Bridge 17 Jun 10 - 03:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jun 10 - 04:17 AM
Rob Naylor 17 Jun 10 - 06:32 AM
Susan of DT 17 Jun 10 - 07:18 AM
oldhippie 17 Jun 10 - 07:40 AM
GUEST,Ed 17 Jun 10 - 07:47 AM
Fergie 17 Jun 10 - 08:25 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 17 Jun 10 - 08:45 AM
Richard Bridge 17 Jun 10 - 09:07 AM
Tannywheeler 17 Jun 10 - 09:12 AM
Dave Hanson 17 Jun 10 - 09:17 AM
meself 17 Jun 10 - 09:19 AM
alanabit 17 Jun 10 - 11:00 AM
mg 17 Jun 10 - 11:19 AM
Larry The Radio Guy 17 Jun 10 - 11:22 AM
Mrrzy 17 Jun 10 - 11:52 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Jun 10 - 12:07 PM
Tattie Bogle 17 Jun 10 - 12:56 PM
Uncle_DaveO 17 Jun 10 - 01:50 PM
Midchuck 17 Jun 10 - 01:59 PM
Larry The Radio Guy 18 Jun 10 - 12:13 AM
Dave Hanson 18 Jun 10 - 02:32 AM
Bert 18 Jun 10 - 02:33 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Jun 10 - 03:44 AM
Rob Naylor 18 Jun 10 - 04:21 AM
GUEST,MC Fat (at work) 18 Jun 10 - 04:51 AM
Larry The Radio Guy 18 Jun 10 - 11:33 AM
Joe_F 18 Jun 10 - 01:14 PM
kendall 18 Jun 10 - 02:29 PM
Art Thieme 18 Jun 10 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 18 Jun 10 - 04:22 PM
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Subject: Songs of contempt about men
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:20 AM

May I ask for examples (preferably with links to recordings of perfomances and/or to worms and dots) of songs of contempt (by men) for the way some men treat womyn, particularly the cowards who try to control the female partners who have discarded them, by means of threats and intimidation or physical abuse?

I think I would like to learn some.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:03 AM

A Stitch in Time - written by Mike Waterson - is here:

Stitch

LFF


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 03:41 AM

Ah yes, thank you, but surely it is a song to be sung by a woman about her man is it not?


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:17 AM

Andy Mitchell's 'Calum More' is from a womans point of view but I know a number of men who make a very good job of it - Including Vin Garbutt and my mate Dave:-)

I know it is not what you are realy after, Richard, but if you can't find many from the man's POV you may need to look from a different angle?

Let us know what you do find anyway.

Cheers

Dave


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 06:32 AM

Maybe this site will give you some pointers. The songs are categorised by type of abuse:

Songs About Abuse

Hope that helps a bit.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Susan of DT
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 07:18 AM

Look at songs with the keyword @feminist in the DT. Some may meet your criteria.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: oldhippie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 07:40 AM

Step It Out Nancy - Holly Near
She Sits At The Table - Tom Paxton


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 07:47 AM

cowards who try to control female partners

aren't very likely to write songs about the situation, methinks...


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Fergie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:25 AM

Christy Moore sings 'Stitch in Time' and he does a mighty job of it.

Fergus


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:45 AM

Look on my website for two Scottish ones - near the end of this chapter:

http://www.campin.me.uk/Embro/Webrelease/Embro/17riot/17riot.htm

"The Lament of the Working Class Hero's Wife" (recorded by Sandra Kerr and Alison McMorland, I think) and "Men Have All Had Their Own Way For Too Long" (unlikely to have been recorded).


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:07 AM

Thanks all.

I will have a look next week. Off folking now. I thought there might be a vein of songs from the POV of the female victim's brother or father, or just any REAL man expressing his contempt for the scum who do that thing.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:12 AM

The field looks open, Richard. Knock yourself out, to coin a phrase. Tw


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:17 AM

Blue Bleezin Blind Drunk.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: meself
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:19 AM

"Slap Her Down Again, Pa". Seriously. Although about controlling daughters rather than SOs.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 11:00 AM

Inevitably a lot of these songs are sung from the woman's point of view. Suszanne Vega's excellent "Luka" comes to mind. Joni MItchell's "Woman of Heart and Mind" is sung to a man, who is clearly annoying her. The trouble with Vega's "Luka" is that it makes you want to kick the violent bastard down a very long flight of stairs - an unfortunate effect for a song, which clearly rejects violence! Tracy Chapman's "Behind the Wall" covers a similar subject.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: mg
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 11:19 AM

I just wish the title was something more like songs of contempt about men who act really badly or something like that rather than men in general. mg


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 11:22 AM

There is a great song, written and performed by a group of men (a punkish sounding group called Nada Surf from 2002, called Mother's Day. It expresses contempt for their peers who justify date rape of women. I believe it can be found on youtube.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 11:52 AM

The Man Song (I wear the pants around here - when I finish with your laundry)


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Subject: ADD: Husband Taming
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:07 PM

Two here:
HUSBAND TAMING
From the singing of Walter Pardon

Oh crikey, what a rummy go, there'll be throughout the nation,
So married men, just mind your eye, you'll find an alteration,
The women, they are fully bent and every day they're aiming,
By hook or crook, to find a plan to give the men a taming.

Hokey pokey, here's a go, the women, they are aiming,
To raise a new invented plan, they call it husband taming.

There lives a man not far from here, they call him Billy Shingle,
He says he give a thousand pounds if he were only single,
He says his wife is just begun to give him such a training,
She's took a patent out to try the plan of husband taming.

Hokey pokey……………

Every morning he must rise and kindle up the fire,
Sift the cinders, empty the pots, it is her first desire,
Then he must wash and dress the child and give the floor a sweeping,
While his wife, she lies in bed another hour asleeping.

Hokey pokey……………..

And when the kettle, it is boiled, he's ordered not to wake her,
Until he's brought her nice hot rolls from Mr Snooks, the baker,
Then he must go and lace her stays, it's no use his complaining,
Because he knows it is the plan she's got for husband taming.

Hokey pokey…………….

After breakfast he must wash, while she goes out a-shopping,
He must make the bed and hunt the fleas or else he gets a whopping,
The napkins then, he's got to dry, and clean the kitchen table,
And if he growls or says a word, she whops him with the ladle.

Hokey pokey…………….

And if the neigbours should pop in, to let them see she's able,
She makes him stand behind the chair and rock the baby's cradle,
And if the child should chance to cry she drives him nearly crazy,
He must pick it up and sing, oh hush-a-bye-a-baby.

Hokey pokey………………

On Sunday, when she takes a walk to see her cousin Atkins.
In his best hat he's got to take a half-a-dozen napkins,
So married men, judge for yourself, you'll see at what they're aiming,
To wear the britches out-and-out and give the men a taming.

Hokey pokey………………….

So single men, just study this, if you would study riches,
If ever you should get a wife don't let her wear the britches,
For once she gets the britches on she'll give you such a training,
And make you curse of the patent plan they've got for husband taming.

Hokey pokey, here's a go, the women, they are aiming,
To raise the new invented plan, they call it husband taming.

and, of course

As I was a-walking one fine summers morning,
To view the filds and the leaves a-springing,
I heard two birds upong a bush,
And one of them was sweetly singing;
And all of their conversation was;
My husband's got no courage in him.

Oh dear oh, oh dear no,
My husband's got no courage in him,
Oh dear oh.

Quite enough of that one, I think,
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:56 PM

Like Dave Hanson, I thought of "Blue Bleezing Blind Drunk", a song that always makes me feel slightly uncomfortable, especially when sung with such gusto and even big smiles on the face of the singer, in case there should be a victim of domestic abuse in the room.
Eric Bogle's "Glasgow Lullaby", also looks at the association between drunkenness and domestic violence.You'll find the words in the DT or on his website: www.ericbogle.net.
"Don't get married girls" by Leon Rosselson.
And slightly off your specification, but a great song by a man poking fun at men's uselessness,
"I'm a man, I'm a man, i'm only a man" by Davie Spittal of Fife group, Kinrick.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:50 PM

GUEST,Ed posted:

cowards who try to control female partners

aren't very likely to write songs about the situation, methinks...


You've missed an important part of the initial request, methinks.

What was wanted was songs by men, contemptuous of other men, who are cowards etc.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Midchuck
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:59 PM

If someone posted the same request with the sexes switched, the screams of protest would be so loud and widespread that it would probably shut down the site.

And liberals claim to believe in fairness!

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 12:13 AM

Midchuck, it has to do with a long tradition of masculine control of the feminine--much of which is rampant in folk songs (and pop/country songs) throughout the ages. It was only in the 20th century that women were even considered "persons". And British law allowed men to beat their women so long as the object of assault was no wider than their thumb (that's the origin of the term "rule of thumb". Hence, for me, "fairness" is attempting to right those wrongs. And I think there's a lot of great music out there that is genuinely working at doing that. The first step is to identify songs that acknowledge how inappropriately men have treated women throughout history--and how this treatment has been sanctioned by society.

When songs were about women taking power over or physically abusing men, they were considered "novelty" songs. (Eg. Bald Headed End of A Broom").

(This isn't to ever justify cruel treatment of men by women--or by other men).


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:32 AM

Larry, if you look at traditional English and Scottish ballads it's mostly a catalogue of womens treachery to men.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:33 AM

If you want to learn try try this one


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 03:44 AM

"If someone posted the same request with the sexes switched, the screams of protest......"
Our traditions are full of songs and stories that vilify the opposite sex, whichever you are, and by taking offence with them, you run the risk of losing a large part of our repertoires.
In today's climate, with more awareness of the questions of gender, it is possible that the real 'narsties' will filter themselves out.
Where do you go next; whaling songs, ageist, hunting, songs that take the piss out of religion and clergymen, political songs, ones that would give offence to pacifists, vegetarians, royalists, republicans..... the list is endless, and, taken to it's logical conclusion, we would be left with a repertoire so anodyne that we might as well sing 'Polly Put The Kettle On' (whoops, sorry, that one's a bit sexist).
We used to have feature evenings in The Singers Club in London and one of the most successful subjects was 'The Battle of the Sexes', where a mixed gender group of residents would present balanced evenings and give as good as they got; they were the sessions when you got the 'flytings' - wonderful.
The sexist songs, presented thoughtfully, can do much to underline and ridicule the injustice of gender domination rather than confirm it - and long may they continue to do so.
Don't be a Mrs (or Mr) Grundy.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:21 AM

Larry Saidman: And British law allowed men to beat their women so long as the object of assault was no wider than their thumb (that's the origin of the term "rule of thumb".

This is just another urban myth. British Common Law allowed a man to give his wife "moderate correction" but this specifically excluded beatings. About the most he could do legally was confine her to the house for a time.

The origin of the phrase "rule of thumb" is nothing to do with being allowed to beat a wife. It's actual origins aren't that certain, but are likely to be due to the use of the thumb (origin of the inch) as an ad-hoc approximate measuring device.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:51 AM

Don't Get Married Girls by Leon Rosselson and I particulary like Blue Bleezing Drunk (Just to give Micky a warning)


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 11:33 AM

Rob Naylor, thanks for the added info. re. "rule of thumb". I do have some awareness of that debate around the origins of that term--and I'm certainly not a historian. However, as you stated, "moderate correction" was allowed by men toward their women--and women were certainly considered "possessions". That's the main point I'm trying to make.


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 01:14 PM

I'm gonna wash that man...
I hate men
That's what you get for loving me


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:29 PM

Liverpool Lullaby


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 03:31 PM

Sung by a woman about a man------or---the other way around...

God don't like ugly,
Baby, your soul is in hell,
God don't like ugly,
Baby, your soul is in hell,
You sit around the house with your moth in a pout,
All you need to be a beast is a tail and a snout,
God don't like ugly,
Baby, your soul is in hell.

Art


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Subject: RE: Songs of contempt about men
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:22 PM

In my non-profit work, from which I am finally about to retire, I have encountered many abused women through agencies and shelters. The stories of some are horrific, from physical beatings and torture to emotional and spiritual abuse or constant browbeating. It is a systematic destruction of the spirit.

The saddest thing is that so many return for more of the same because, as one lady told me, "I'd rather the devil I know than the one I haven't met." These songs, especially by those who have direct knowledge, are - and should be - powerful. There is no weaker or more detestable man than one who abuses women and children.


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