Compare and Contrast...

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Janie
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 10:14 AM

Bryan,

Thanks for link and the additional background information.

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 09:49 AM

In another recent thread - Folklore: Rossendale coco-nutters in the 1930s - I quoted a passage from a book by Tommy Thompson, describing how morris dancers came down from the Rossendale valley. Replies to my original post included the interesting quote (from the Britannia dancers website) posted by Bernard:

"The Dances spread throughout Rossendale and around the turn of the Century there were at least four troupes. One of these was the Tunstead Mill Troupe who celebrated their half century in 1907. It is from this troupe that Britannia is descended."

If Cornish miners brought their trade to the new Lancashire coalfields - or if the miners picked up the dance from South Africa - both possible suggestions by Bryan - my question is: why just the Rossendale Valley? My own paternal ancestors were coal miners in south-east Lancashire (not Rossendale) in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The coal industry was quite widespread in those days, and it's fascinating to read that the coco-nutters troupes appear to have originated in just one part of the overall coal area.

One answer to my own question may be in the fact that movement of people from area to area was less common in the earlier years of the 19th century - my own family remained in their part of Lancashire with little movement out of it until the 1890s - and the dancers in Rossendale were more isolated at that time.

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 08:41 AM

Ooops. The gumboot dance video got lost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgFAG0mtac

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 07:52 AM

This arose from an aside on another forum where Vic posted the video of the excellent Black Umfolosi 5 performing at the Royal Oak, Lewes. (I was there!) Here is another video of the gumboot dance in Cape Town.

Janie's response illustrates why I was reluctant to bring up the subject here. The Britannia Coco-nut Dancers of Bacup have been doing what they do for over a hundred years following a tradition going back a hundred, or possibly hundreds, of years before that. On their website they say -

The dances they perform are actually Folk Dances and the custom of blackened faces may reflect a pagan or medieval background which was done to disguise the dancers from being recognised by evil spirits afterwards, it may also reflect mining connections.

If anyone has any issues with that, I suggest they take it up with the "Nutters".

I am more interested in making connections. One suggestion is that Cornish tin miners brought the dance to Lancashire when they helped start up the coal mining industry. As I understand, the Gumboot dance is associated with gold miners. Did Cornish or Lancastrian miners go ot to work in the South African gold mines and if so, did they take the dance with them or did they find it there and bring it back?

The Alpentanzers throw another question in. Are they associated with mining? Here they re again looking very like the Nutters. Hut Tanz

Or, of course, they might have nothing to do with each other.

Bryan Creer

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Janie
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 09:21 PM

Thanks, Al. That is wonderful!

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Al
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 07:50 PM

Here's a to the one I posted: here

Al

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 07:41 AM

Actually, no you didn't have to add that at all!

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Janie
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 10:41 PM

I also have to add that I found the use of blackface in the first video offensive.

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Janie
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 10:40 PM

Easy, the dancers in the 2nd video know how to dance!

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Al
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 09:55 PM

These dance forms are easy to compare and contrast because they are in the same video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL8lu9kOvVg

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Dave Earl
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:48 PM

Yes Vic

Iv'e got a lot on at work for the next week and then I'm at Upper D for the TTF S&A. If you are going to look in on that we could touch base there.

Or perhaps you could phone or text my mobile.

Dave

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Vic Smith
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:10 PM

Please Sir I did my homework but the puppy ate it

Stay behind after school, Earl minor, I need to have words with you about this..... Actually, Dave, I do need to talk to you... but about festival stewarding, not homework!

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Dave Earl
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 02:57 PM

Please Sir I did my homework but the puppy ate it

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 11:02 AM

Verbunk from Csik

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 09:08 AM

Try this one...

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:46 AM

NO Mike - That's the SIMILARITY ! They're ALL Nuts ! LOL

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:44 AM

And the Big Difference is - nuts!

Subject: RE: Compare and Contrast......
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:20 AM

How about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PG4UPoq_vI&feature=related ?

Subject: Compare and Contrast......
From: Vic Smith
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:11 AM

OK! Here is your homework from this week. Write an essay to compare and contrast the dancing style seen in these two YouTube videos:-


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DczN97ro_Vk

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf6ZCnf_yU8

Oh.... and don't complain to me that you have been given such a difficult assignment; the idea was suggested by Bryan Creer (alias The Snail).