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Lagerphone build recommendations please!

John J 28 Jun 10 - 01:31 PM
Crowhugger 28 Jun 10 - 02:17 PM
Jack Campin 28 Jun 10 - 02:20 PM
VirginiaTam 28 Jun 10 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,freespiritceol 28 Jun 10 - 03:31 PM
GUEST 28 Jun 10 - 03:36 PM
Gurney 28 Jun 10 - 03:51 PM
Jack Campin 28 Jun 10 - 04:52 PM
Tangledwood 28 Jun 10 - 05:34 PM
Leadfingers 28 Jun 10 - 06:02 PM
Jack Campin 28 Jun 10 - 06:08 PM
vectis 28 Jun 10 - 07:25 PM
Bob Bolton 28 Jun 10 - 08:24 PM
Bob Bolton 28 Jun 10 - 08:41 PM
Crowhugger 28 Jun 10 - 08:49 PM
Little Robyn 28 Jun 10 - 09:02 PM
Bob Bolton 29 Jun 10 - 12:51 AM
Joe Offer 29 Jun 10 - 01:25 AM
Ralphie 29 Jun 10 - 01:33 AM
John J 29 Jun 10 - 04:37 PM
katlaughing 29 Jun 10 - 05:11 PM
Sandra in Sydney 30 Jun 10 - 05:54 AM
banjoman 30 Jun 10 - 09:05 AM
Sandra in Sydney 30 Jun 10 - 10:17 AM
Bob Bolton 30 Jun 10 - 07:58 PM
Rowan 30 Jun 10 - 09:52 PM
GUEST,Dave 16 Jan 11 - 04:33 PM
Bob Bolton 16 Jan 11 - 05:01 PM
Bob Bolton 16 Jan 11 - 05:12 PM
GUEST,Dave 17 Jan 11 - 07:24 PM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Jan 11 - 07:34 PM
Jack Campin 17 Jan 11 - 08:19 PM
JohnB 18 Jan 11 - 03:24 PM
RTim 18 Jan 11 - 03:44 PM
GUEST,lagerphonofinist 18 Jan 11 - 04:23 PM
GUEST,lagerphonofinist 18 Jan 11 - 04:59 PM
The Fooles Troupe 19 Jan 11 - 01:47 AM
Mr Red 19 Jan 11 - 06:18 AM
JohnB 19 Jan 11 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,Phlegm 04 Apr 11 - 12:54 AM
Mr Red 04 Apr 11 - 05:23 AM
Bob Bolton 04 Apr 11 - 08:44 PM
Mr Red 05 Apr 11 - 09:01 AM
GUEST,Ray 05 Apr 11 - 09:55 AM
The Fooles Troupe 05 Apr 11 - 06:59 PM
GUEST,aussiebloke 10 Jun 12 - 08:39 PM
a gud ole bwoy 11 Jun 12 - 12:55 PM
Bob Bolton 11 Jun 12 - 09:03 PM
Andrez 13 Jun 12 - 07:18 AM
GUEST,wattie 24 Jun 12 - 06:58 PM
Bob Bolton 25 Jun 12 - 02:27 AM
Sandra in Sydney 25 Jun 12 - 07:31 AM
Sandra in Sydney 26 Jun 12 - 07:37 AM
Ernest 26 Jun 12 - 12:34 PM
Dave Hunt 26 Jun 12 - 07:58 PM
Andrez 27 Jun 12 - 04:20 AM
Sandra in Sydney 27 Jun 12 - 11:47 AM
Andrez 28 Jun 12 - 05:07 AM
Andrez 28 Jun 12 - 06:45 AM
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Subject: Lagerphone build advice please.
From: John J
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 01:31 PM

The Mrs JJ is quite taken with the idea of a Lagerphone to accompany a Morris band.

For the uninitiated, a Lagerphone is a broom stick with beer bottle-tops nailed loosely along it's length. The stick is then bashed on the ground, in time with the music. It gives a nice jingley, percussive sound.....others may disagree on the use of the word 'nice' here!

I'm after advice on the best way to make one. Bernard has pointed me in the right direction but the knowledge of Mudcatters can only help me further here.

The sort of information I would like is:

How many beer bottle-tops per nail?
Over what length of the stick should the nail / bottle tops be spread?
How much nail length should be allowed?
etc

All help gratefully received.

JJ


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Crowhugger
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 02:17 PM

At a church where I play handbells there is a bucket full of lagerphones which have the bottle caps in pairs, 2 pairs to roughly a 1 3/4" nail if I recall correctly, assuming 1/4 to 3/8" of the nail is inside the wood. I think the crimped sides are facing in each pair but I wouldn't swear to that--mental notes simply aren't what they used to be.

They put 4 nailsful of caps about 2 inches apart or less, just enough clearance between rows for good rattling. How many of these courses of rattles depended on the length of broom/mop stick, particularly the mop sticks have wacky faces added, and where the "hair" hangs down of course there can't be rattles, they just'd tangle in the mop and go silent. You want the hole in the cap to be made with a bigger nail that what it'll rattle on, so as to be loose enough to move freely.

These ones have the lowest foot or two cap-free, sometimes with decorative streamers. There is also a cap-free zone below the broom or mop-head (call it the neck?) where the stick is held.

Some were hockey sticks that lost their business ends, probably easier to nail into, they don't roll.

The ones I've seen look for all the world like New Year's Eve noise makers. Have fun with it, JJ!

~CH.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 02:20 PM

I once thought about making one. To be authentic about it, I asked Michael at Sandy Bells if he could save me the tops off any Australian beers he sold. He said they didn't bother stocking it any more as they couldn't sell it.

I could try one of the Australian theme pubs in town. Guess I'd have to decide if I was going for a New South Wales, Victoria or Queensland model, and choose the appropriate brand (or do they still drink beer in Queensland? maybe they all just get high on cane toad slime these days).

The icky bit is getting the seal out of the caps. With cork, you can just set them on fire. The plastic inners you get in modern caps would leave a sticky carbonized mess.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 02:35 PM

this guy gives some instrux as to how he built his

sounds like a fun project.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST,freespiritceol
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 03:31 PM

Don't forget the bycicle hooter, and assorted bike bells, and of course the childs wellington on the bottom, as well as the bottle caps. We just drilled out holes in them and attached them loosely with screws.If you are feeling adventurous you can attach a tin mug as well

and also a small stick to hit the big stick with as well as banging it up and down.


Have fun

John


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 03:36 PM

Don't !!!


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 03:51 PM

Leave a bare piece of shaft to use the hitting stick on, and put a row of chairnails in the hitting stick to rub/vibrate the lagerphone.
You don't need nearly as many caps as you might suppose from the link above.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 04:52 PM

One suggestion I've seen is not to use a bare piece of shaft for the strike point of the hitting stick, but to wrap sheet iron round it there - stops the shaft wearing away.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Tangledwood
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 05:34 PM

I could try one of the Australian theme pubs in town. Guess I'd have to decide if I was going for a New South Wales, Victoria or Queensland model, and choose the appropriate brand (or do they still drink beer in Queensland? maybe they all just get high on cane toad slime these days).

I'm afraid that this could be a dying tradition Jack. Nearly all the beer bottles around these days have ring-pull tops which rip in half when the bottle is opened. A while back I read that most wine producers are now using screw top bottles instead of corks. The new profile means that neck can't be used to make guitar slides.
Somebody in the alcohol industry hates musicians.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 06:02 PM

I have seen Lager Phone players who had a NOTCHED Stick to Rattle it with - IF you can pat your head AND rub you stomach its easy to get a cross beat !


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 06:08 PM

That's what the sheet iron is for - without it the notched stick acts like a saw.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: vectis
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 07:25 PM

I have my nails in pairs opposite each other and about 2inches apart. Alternating rows are at right angles.
I have about half the stick covered with a bare bit in the middle for rattling, rubbing and clattering.

The bottom 18inches I leave bare to tune it to G and I leave the top couple of inches bare as well so I can bash it on the top for a harmony to the mid point bashing area.

The rattle sticks were turned on a lathe by a friend and are made of deal.

The splinters didn't really bother me for a few years, then I wrapped the bare bit with some masking tape for a while. I took it off in the end because it made the stick go a bit flat so now i put up with the splinters and will take a bit of sandpaper to it if they start biting back.

Mine has a crutch foot on the end for rebound. Boots and stuff raise a smile but ruin the playability as do silly heads and ribbons on the top.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 08:24 PM

G'day all and sundry,

A big slab of text ... but this is about the first article dcovering making and playing a lagerphone ... written by the bloke who introduced the lagerphone to the world! Brian was with John Meredith, back in Meredith's home town Holbrook when John's brother Claude showed the rattle he had made afetr seeing an old rabbit-trapper play one at a local fund-raising talent quest (with piano accompaniment!).

-----------------------------------------

Brian talks about the supposed derivation of the 'lagerphone' from the various 19th century 'military band' instruments ... loosely based on a number of eastern ideophones. My latest view ... supported byeveidence of the instrument being found with Germanis immigrants ... and a 1910 photograph of a clearly home-made version being played with 'classical' instruments in a German musical group, is that the immediate ancestor was the (~eastern) German Teufelsgeige (~Devil's Fiddle) aka the Czech Stumpfidel.

The Meredith family sighting was in Holbrook ... previously "Germanton" ... until 1915!

The Bushwhackers had no connection with the decades later Melbourne "folk/rock" band (The Original) Bushwackers (and Bullockies) Band ... and they could spell Bushwhackers correctly!

Build a Lagerphone…

By Brian Loughlin, lagerphonist with The Bushwhackers

The Bushwhackers have performed Australian songs and ballads for just about every conceivable type of audience, and with each performance comes enquiries about the band's percussion section - in particular, the lagerphone, and how to construct and play the instrument.

We discovered the lagerphone (local name) in use at Holbrook, NSW, in 1953 and since then research has told us that use of the instrument in early Australia was popular, possible being introduced by ex-members of the British army.

Until about the turn of the century, England's military bands had in use a percussion instrument known as Jingling Johnnie, and this may be said to be the parent of our lagerphone, which has other names in different localities. Jingling Johnnie consisted of a metal rod with two or three cross-pieces and a "pagoda" top - the lot covered with the jingles from tambourines, and shaken and beaten to provide rhythm.

The parentage of Jingling Johnnie may be traced back through Europe (where it has left branches of its family in many countries) to Turkey. Back as far as the 1300s the Turks had a percussion instrument known as the "Crescent", which played a prominent part In all their music, particularly military music. The Turkish Crescent was an elaborate affair, often made of precious metals and adorned with gems. Not so the lagerphone, traditionally made from any material at hand.

Here's a rough description of how the Bushwhacker's model is constructed. The cork lining is removed from about 300 bottle tops, (lager by choice!) and each of these is pierced by driving a six-inch nail through its centre. Three-quarter inch clouts are then used to loosely attach the bottle tops, inside-out, to a broom stick, complete with head (hair removed). A rubber crutch grip covets the bottom end of the stick and provides "bounce" and protection for polished -floors. A clear space is left on the stick just under the head as a hand grip. and another about six inches lower down for free contact of the rattle stick. Apart from the bottle tops, as many adornments and noise-makers may be added as desired.

The rattle stick, which appears to be an Australian innovation. is made from an eighteen inch strip of hardwood, fashioned into a handle at one end. Edges of the rattle stick are serrated, so that as it is drawn across the lagerphone the sound of massed tambourines shatters the silence! Alternate bowing and tapping with the rattle stick, accompanied by the bouncing of the instrument on its rubber grip on the floor provides any desired rhythm.

The appearance of the lagerphone and its fascination to audiences can easily lead players into error. The instrument is not solely meant to make people laugh, but is intended as a serious rhythm accompaniment to melody instruments.

In ten minutes, anyone can play a lagerphone and that's one reason why there are so many about now; but for a really polished style and full satisfaction from performances, you must treat your lagerphone as you would any other musical instrument. Practice regularly and listen to other players' styles and effects.

If you haven't got a lagerphone, make one this weekend. They are good fun ... and remember the Bushwhackers' slogan, "A lagerphone in every home!

Singabout, Vol. 1 No. 3, Winter 1956, p. 23


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 08:41 PM

Oops!

I forgot to press "Preview" before "Submit Message"!

There are a lot of fine points to building a lagerphone ... but the critical component is good 'ringy' bottle tops ... and the old cork seals have been long replaced by very firmly glued-in plastic seals.

(Some may bless their appropriate deity for this ...).

I used to be able to boil the bottletops in an old frying pan ... and grip one edge of the top with long needle-nosed pliers - while levering out the seal with a long, narrow screwdriver ... but they seem to have improved the glue!

The striker needs more care and design than any other component. The first (ex-Bushwhackers) lagerphone, now in the Australian National Library has a replacement strike made by my father, Ken Bolton, from 'fiddleback ' maple but I prefer to use a commercial engineer's hammer handle (made of Australian hardwoods ... far tougher than anything you will be able to find ...

I very carefully make a row [rasp, round file, sandpaper] of smoothly curving 'sine wave' depressions ... not crude 'notching' down opposing sides (in two different spacing - to allow varying the rhythm).

There is no sense in making a crude striker that proceeds to saw you lagerphone in half!

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Crowhugger
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 08:49 PM

The l-phone that Virginia Tam links to has wayyy more caps than the ones I've seen. Though I'm not sure ours would be heard from the back of a big hall in the midst of a cooking dance band, not without amplification. All that to say don't wait till you have that many jingles. Start with what you have and add more as you drink.
~CH.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Little Robyn
Date: 28 Jun 10 - 09:02 PM

If you can find a shop that supplies Home Brew stuff to the people who make their own, you can usually buy bags of brand new shiny metal caps. Saves a lot of damage to your liver if you don't have to empty the bottles first!
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 12:51 AM

G'day Little Robyn,

Of course, the Home Brew shop caps will still have the tenacious modern plastic seals. Unless you can effectively remove them, you won't have the traditional lagerphone sound ...

... well, some might say that's a good thing ...

but clearly, the value of such a handy source of rhythm sounds was quickly appreciated in our (Australian) past ... Some informants reported seeing bottle-top rattlers out in 'bush' areas as early as 1910 ... only 5 years after they were first applied, in the big cities, to Australian bottled drinks!

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 01:25 AM

This Lagerphone photo is truly inspiring....


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Ralphie
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 01:33 AM

Pure coincidence I know, but the Lagerphone that Packie Manus Byrne made for Paddington Pandemonic Express (Urban Molly Dancers UK) 30 years ago is coming out of retirement (as are the dancers!) this weekend to celebrate Great Western Morris 40th anniversary bash in the West Country. Indeed, I'm working on a new stick to hit it with today. The old one vanished long ago!!


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: John J
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 04:37 PM

That's brilliant help, many thanks all!

I've got a large stock of used crown bottle-tops, I'll get to work tomorrow.

On a recent trip to Florida we came across the Sun Drummers
, Mrs JJ got her inspiration from them - so watch out Florida, she'll be back later in the year!

Many thanks once again.

John


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 05:11 PM

Bob, glad to see you in here. I was just about to post that Bob Bolton ought to see this and comment...taught me all I know about lagerphones!*bg*

kat


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 Jun 10 - 05:54 AM

further to Joe's blicky

Bushwhacker lagerphone description Believed to have been used in performances by The Bushwhackers (1954-1957). The Bushwhackers were active in collecting and performing bush songs from rural Australia to button accordion and lagerphone accompaniment.

A homemade musical instrument made from what is believed to be a broom or mop handle of dark wood (153 cm) with a short crossboard (23.5 x 7 x 2 cm) screwed to the top of the handle and a rubber stop at the bottom. The crossboard has 3 columns of 6 bottletops screwed to the top, 5 double layered columns of bottletops on one side, 2 rows of bottletops (totalling 11 double layered columns) on the other side, and 2 double layered columns of bottletops on both narrow sides. 2 medium-sized bells and 8 small bells are attached to the bottom of the crossboard. Coloured paper tassles are tied to each end of the crossboard. Just below the crossboard are 3 double layered columns of bottletops screwed to the stick on one side and 1 double layered column of bottletops on the other side. 4 small bells and 6 small circular metal discs are attached at the same level. The mid section of the handle is covered with a thin metal coil (16 cm) with 4 small bells and 6 small circular metal discs attached above. Below this there are 2 rows of 13 columns of bottletops (single layered except for the first double layered column) and 2 rows of 14 columns of bottletops (single layered except for the first column). The serrated wood stick is made from a different dark wood.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: banjoman
Date: 30 Jun 10 - 09:05 AM

I made one years ago and the best part was drinking -sorry - collecting all the bits. I also managed to stick an old wellington boot on the end of the broom handle, packed with paper soaked in wet cement. Made an even better sound.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 Jun 10 - 10:17 AM

lagerphone in action! at the Bush Music Club's 50th birthday. White haired bloke watching is Harry Kay, one of the original Bushwhackers who founded BMC in 1954.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Jun 10 - 07:58 PM

G'day again,

Joe Offer: The lagerphone image that you linked is the one to which i referred, in my post: Date: 28 Jun 10 - 08:41 PM. This was the first one made by John Meredith (founder of The Bushwhackers Bush Band - ~ 1953 - 1957)and was donated to the National Library of Australia staff at 2002 (Australian) the National Folk Festival by Chris Woodlands, an old friend of the late John Meredith ... but accession details were lost.

I was asked to identify the instrument ... and was able to give much more information than is in the linked item ... but I'm rather chuffed to see Dad's nicely thought out and constructed 'fiddleback maple' striker up on the web! I had a similar one, also made by Dad ... until my lagerphone was commandeered (while I was playing mouthorgan) during a gig at the 729 Club (Sydney television personnel) decades back ... by a drunken TV presenter ... who mannaged to break it in half - no mean fit ... even for a drunk!

The lagerphone seen for the first time by most Australians (.. at least Sydneysiders) was the next one - made by Brian Loughlin - who was the regular lagerphonist with the Bushwhackers, until they broke up in 1957. Brian then continued in various incarnations of the 'Bush Music Club Concert Party' ... and other similar bands, until his untimely death in 1975. Brian's lagerphone is the model for my own ... and the one I usually use as an illustraion in any historical items on the spread (resurrection ... ?) of the instrument during the "folk revival".

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Rowan
Date: 30 Jun 10 - 09:52 PM

Until I got into fondling the leather ferret, my lagerphone was my only instrument. My playing style was rather vigorous and the one I made was along the style of the one linked to above but more substantial. I used a hoe handle for the upright and cut a step into the 'top' to seat a slightly larger plate that was bolted to the upright. striking the back of the plate gave variation to the timbre.

I found that my playing style caused the hole in the bottle tops to tear quite quickly so I put a 1/2" steel washer between the tops and the screw head; nails never lasted any distance for me. Even so, I'd have to replace at least half the tops after three evenings' dances. Having long exhausted my supply of crown seals with cork inserts and wasted a lot of time dealing with plastic inserts (they really do deaden the tone) I got onto the manufacturer of crown seals in Victoria and they gave me a box of 1000 that they took off the line before the inserts were inserted. Great! For those in areas where such trickery is unavailable I suggest collecting the little caps that come in the tops of champagne corks; they prevent the wire from cutting into the cork. Of course, any instrument using them must be called a champerphone and not a lagerphone.

I also carried a square of carpet to prevent damage to the flooring and, ultimately, I even had to make a small rectangle of flooring to properly isolate my efforts from mic stands. My preference for bows was an axe handle. When I played with Flowers and Frolics I broke my bow and had to find, quickly, some timber to make another; English timber places had a different understanding of 'hardwood' than Australian ones, I found.

If I felt myself to be able to give advice on playing lagerphone, I'd probably limit myself to suggesting that you treat each tune as an individual item and "play" it as such.

All the best!

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 04:33 PM

Kiwi beer caps sound better! LOL... actually, I found that the rubber seals were easier to remove from screw cap bottles, rather than the ones you need a bottle opener for and boiling them up does loosen the glue.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 05:01 PM

G'day Dave,

You probably have a slightly less paranoid set of public health regulations of 'crown seals' on your side of the Tasman Sea. The glued-in plastic seals over her are not removed by any process that doesn't full just short of destroying the steel cap ... or, at least, burning off the protective plating!

I doubt that anyone would be able to do what my late, lamented, mate Rowan ... some years back ... and sweet-talk the manufacturers into donating a thousand 'virgin' tops without seas ... There's probably a law against it now (not (I)necessarily a comment a comment on Rowan's playing!


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 05:12 PM

G'day (again) Dave,

I'll try to remember not to Submit my draft ... instead of Previewing it!)

You probably have a slightly less paranoid set of public health regulations of 'crown seals' on your side of the Tasman Sea. The glued-in plastic seals over here are not removed by any process that doesn't fall just short of destroying the steel cap ... or, at least, burning off the protective plating!

I doubt that anyone would be able to do what my late, lamented, mate Rowan ... was able to do some years back ... and sweet-talk the manufacturers into donating a thousand 'virgin' tops without seals ... There's probably a law against it now (not necessarily a comment a comment on Rowan's playing!

It would be sad if we end up not being able to make really 'authentic' lagerphones just because of bureaucratic regulations ... but there are probably a number of players of other ... less acoustically driven ... instruments who might suggest that they would be quite happy for us to use the crown seals with the (rather deadening) plastic inserts left in place!

Regard(les)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 07:24 PM

Re: Caps and seals (Bob)
It does seem a terrible thing that so called 'progress' impacts on a true blue traditional pleasure such as the good ol' Aussie Lagerphone. This is a probably a sacrilegious statement that follows, but for anyone who's interested here's a few NZ beers that have caps with easier to remove seals:

DB Export
Steinlager
Tui
Lion Red
Corona (NZ)

I know, I know...you guys would rather hit yourself in the head with a stick than use NZ beer caps :) - Just chuckin' it out there for consideration by anyone that might want to go for a less traditional "international design" - Cheers.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 07:34 PM

Aussies can always spray paint the tops ... :-P


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Jan 11 - 08:19 PM

I do NOT have the sort of friends who would drink 300 bottles of Lion to supply me with the caps.

I haven't seen the stuff since I left Auckland in 1974. Thank god.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: JohnB
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 03:24 PM

A Bodhran by any other name still sucks completely.
When played by someone who has absolutely no sense of rhythm, which unfortunately encompasses even more Lagerphone/Jingle Stick players than even the Bodhran can claim.
At least that is my unfortunate incidence with the wretched device, which contrary to most players opinions/abilities requires a really good percussionist to play bearably.
Please go out and buy a Bodhran, they are easier to play.
JohnB


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: RTim
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 03:44 PM

To obtain bottle tops - Drink LOTS of Beer!!

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST,lagerphonofinist
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 04:23 PM

JohnB,
Sure, a good percussionist can make any 2 sticks sound great, but surely the joy of the lagerphone is in the creating and learning to play. It really only requires a reasonable sense of time/rhythm and a little creativity - if you can walk and count to 4, your're there! Keeping it simple is the key. I'm teaching my 6 year old daughter to play a steady continuous backbeat on beats 2 and 4. With a nice, crisp acoustic guitar we're swingin'! Isn't a bodhran a drum?


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST,lagerphonofinist
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 04:59 PM

Oops...A possibly somewhat inconsiderate statement in my previous post. By 'walk' I meant 'able to coordinate limbs' in relation to keeping/playing rhythm. Obviously, the lagerphone is an instrument for all - sitting, walking, standing or staggering your way to the bar.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 01:47 AM

"Please go out and buy a Bodhran, they are easier to play."

... and be less loud than a lagerphone...


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 06:18 AM

I started collecting bottle tops 15 years ago and quickly found that modern ones have a layer of rubbery plastic to effect the seal. This deadens that sound. I tried burning off the plastic but it also alters the sound, perhaps I should have quenched them while still hot to re-temper them, but it all got a bit complicated and I gave up.

Scraping off the plastic was a long and fruitless task too.

Still the plastic deadening won't annoy bodhran jokerists (oh how my sides are hurting - please one joke at a time)

So what is the difference between a drummer and a gynecologist?

1) None - they both know the answer to this joke.
2) Bodhran players are all laughing, but not the erstwhile jokerists.
3) PM me if you need a good laugh.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: JohnB
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 01:16 PM

GUEST,lagerphonofinist, I was involved with doing some back up vocals a while ago.
Of the two "Multi Instrumentalists" who both play many and various things quite well and the Professional musician and recording engineer who were there. I was the only one who could play the "Lagerphone" in anything like timing.
I know several other people who have made them and can not play them in time with other musicians to save their lives.
Honestly, having played both, the "Bodhran (Irish style frame drum) is far easier to play. Not that that actually helps most people who try. Maybe a licensing system is required before you let anyone loose with a "simple" percussion instrument (which they now play because they couldn't play a {insert instrument of choice})
JohnB


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST,Phlegm
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 12:54 AM

I've made a lagerphone using a old solid bamboo cane walking stick, and...wait for it...bells from many old tamborines bought at swap meets/boot sales at weekend markets.Paid no more than $1.50 for an old tamborine).Buy only as many as you need.
Best thing is: no holes to drill & different size bells & metals, & lots of bells. Used a rubber bootstopper from an old crutc(found at the local rubbish tip)for anti-slip on the floor. A few "tinnies" & a few hours later, enter from stage left...one lagerphone.It works for me....tuning it from the drums is fun (tongue firmly in left cheek).


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 05:23 AM

One I saw in NZ had a stiff spring on the bottom and a miniature boot on the end (possibly a kiddy's).
The beater was an axe handle so it had shape to allow you to hold it loosely and still hang on to it. But the real wheeze was that it was serrated along one edge. Quite large lumps, which could be rubbed against the stem to produce a quick rattle, or banged against the stem.

Very effective it was too.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 08:44 PM

G'day Mr Red,

My Dad used to make very pretty 'fiddleback maple' lagerphone knockers (one of them is included with the Australian National Library's exhibit of John Meredith's seminal lagerphone - third in line from:

(1) The anonymous 'rabbit poisoner' who played one in Holbrook a
round 1953 /

(2) the ~ copy made by Claude Meredith after seeing the local Red Cross 'talent quest' where the poisoner played /

(3) John's copy he made after visiting his brother Claude, along with a couple of the original Bushwhackers Band /

(4) the one made and played by Brian Loughlin ... which was the one that launched its popularity, at the beginning of the Australian "Folk revival".)

My Maple one, made by Dad in the 1970s, was eventually broken by a drunken television jounalist who "borrowed" my lagerphone (modelled on Brian Loughlin's), while we were playing at the old "729 Club" - a north-Sydney television set club.

I now recommend a good handle from an engineer's hammer (mine are made from "Spotted Gum" - a fine, interlocked-grain Australian hardwood ... and the two narrow sides are smoothly 'rippled' at spacings of 20 mm and 25 mm - to vary the 'rattle rate'.

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 09:01 AM

why not 3 sides serrated?

The point about the axe handle is the flared end and slight bend so it could stay loosely in the hand.

As I find playing Bodhran - loose leaves flexibility in subtle (don't laugh I tell you) strokes and saves on the wrist and fingers.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 09:55 AM

My recommendation is that you attach a thick cushion to the striking end of the instrument and replace the bottle-tops with either felt or leather washers. The thought of anyone joining in using a lagerphone is enough to make me want to stay at home. If you wish to participate in a musical occasion - take the time to learn to play a real instrument.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 06:59 PM

Much as I have some sympathy for Ray's opinion, it should be remembered that often it takes far more talent to make good music with a simple instrument than with a more 'complicated' one. Have you ever heard someone whop 'body drums' - strikes various parts of the body with the palm of the hand - chest, thighs, etc? A good performer is fascinating, rhythm, different tonal sounds, etc.

I don't claim to be any musical genius, but I went back to 'purely acoustic' instruments, as it takes far more effort and development of talent to produce something satisfying.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST,aussiebloke
Date: 10 Jun 12 - 08:39 PM

G'day

Soak NEW bottlecaps from the home brew shop in acetone to remove the plastic seal.

Put two washers between each two bottletops to add to the jangle factor.

Cheers


Martin


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: a gud ole bwoy
Date: 11 Jun 12 - 12:55 PM

Believe it or not, a lagerphone can actually be a versatile bit of kit. We use one to add a bit of percussion when we are singing at busking events, goes a treat with a bit of skiffle. Usually make one every year during the winter, some people think I should get out more.


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 11 Jun 12 - 09:03 PM

G'day ...

aussiebloke: I found out ... since I was mucking about with lagerphones for Keith Sayers' "World Record attempt Lagerphone Parade at this year's (Australian) National Folk Festival) ... - some years after constructing my last rattler that all the angst of gouging out glued-in plastic liners has gone away.

The latest ... rather thin ... plastic inner seals in beer bottle caps seem to come out almost as easily as the old cork ones did! A medium-sized screwdriver will dislodge the centre portion easily ... and a (~) circular motion will lift the whole liner out intact.

I think I might consider buying a big packet of (~) 2 cm steel washers and slipping one one each side of the bottle top during assembly ... since the cap's metal seems even thinner than a few decades back ... and the washers will add a (~) different rattle to the bottletops.

"a gud ole bwoy": Your're right about the possibility of playing a lagerphone with both restraint ... and skill - to good effect. Far too many players seem to regard lagerphony as a blood sport ... to no benefit in the overall musical performance!

Regard(les)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Andrez
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 07:18 AM

Hmmmmmm just wondering, can Morris dancers be called human Lagerphones?

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: GUEST,wattie
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 06:58 PM

I have 9hrs to make a lagerphone for my nipper to play. I collected the tops 20-odd years ago. East German. They didn't glue in the inserts. Oh how we miss those days: Trabis, command economy, cobbles, loud lagerphones...


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 02:27 AM

G'day Andrez,

... Then you didn't actually hear the joke circulating around the (Australian) National Folk Festival, in Canberra ... a few years back(?) ...

"What do you call a one-legged morris man?

... (Ba-boom ...: "A lagerphone"!)

Regard(les)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 07:31 AM

Black Joak morris dancer with her lagerphone


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 07:37 AM

lots more lagerphone photos added

by-the-by, the Morris lagerphone is not photographed with it's maker.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Ernest
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 12:34 PM

The classical instruction of "how to build a lagerphone" starts with

"1. Empty a LOT of beer bottles to obtain enough bottlecaps."

and becomes a bit hazy after that....


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 07:58 PM

I made one MANY years ago -(where is it now???) which, apart from the bottle tops, had, on the front a metal beer tray,each end of which was supported by springy curtain wire, the rim of the tray was also pierced (drilled) to hold more bottle tops and some morris bells -and that's the bit I used to hit. On a cross piece at the top were 3 bicycle bells, several hooters, whistles - and a duck call! The bottom of the stick had a kids wellie, the toe cut open and plastic false teeth glued in, and on the sole some clog irons -whole thing decorated with glittery gold and silver ribbons. God! - it was an awful noisy thing - just used it in street shows to attract an audience - some music lover must have stolen it as I haveen't seen it for years (I'm happy to say!)DAVE


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Andrez
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 04:20 AM

Sandra, a three legged Morris dancer, how unusual, wonder how they managed to breed it.

Oops I couldnt help myself....... bye :-)

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 11:47 AM

Andrez, stop picking on my Black Joak friends!

& Dave, I'd love a pic of your masterpiece if you have one, please PM me if pics exist

sandra


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Andrez
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 05:07 AM

Sorry about that Sandra, I'll try and be better behaved in the future but its like I said, I couldnt help meself. A pic like that just brings out the best, or worst of me, depending on yer point of view ;-)

As for the reference to Dave's masterpiece, I'll take it as given we are talking lagerphones here............. Oh no, there I go again, bad Andrez, bad Andrez, slap, slap :-)

Cheers,

Andrez

PS: Mebbee it stems from my recent work with people with cognitive impairments and some of it has rubbed off?


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Subject: RE: Lagerphone build recommendations please!
From: Andrez
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 06:45 AM

But seriously now, all that nonsense aside, choke, choke :-) is there a photo anywhere of Paul Hogans Fosters Lagerphone? Or a clip on YouTube of a Fosters Ad with him using it? I did a search but couldn't find one.

This is said to be currently on show at the Australian Museum of Modern Media. The info source was this news article at:
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/the-atrocity-exhibition-2012062

Cheers,

Andrez


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