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Origins: A quick question: royalties

GUEST,JB 05 Jul 10 - 07:40 AM
Amos 05 Jul 10 - 10:18 AM
Fred McCormick 05 Jul 10 - 10:38 AM
Maryrrf 05 Jul 10 - 10:43 AM
Fred McCormick 05 Jul 10 - 10:48 AM
Amos 05 Jul 10 - 12:45 PM
Leadfingers 05 Jul 10 - 06:46 PM
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Subject: Origins: A quick question to the experts out ther
From: GUEST,JB
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 07:40 AM

Just wanted to know if the following two songs are old traditionals or if royalties would have to be paid on these.

The holy ground (Fine gir you are)

The little drummer (recorded by Planxty)

I always thought these were traditionals, but I have now been informed by the Gema in Germany (equivalent of MCPS in the UK)that they are registered as having been written by someone and are thus subject to royalties.

I have absolutely no problems paying royalties to artists or crediting the writer of the song as long as the information is correct.


Would really appreciate any inf on this.

JB


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Subject: RE: Origins: A quick question: royalties
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 10:18 AM

Planxty's own testimony on The Drummer Boy is that is came from Franke Harte, an Irish collector of songs.

"Frank is referred to by members of Planxty in the biography of the band by Leagues O'Toole, 'The Humours of Planxty' as a source of songs.

""The Little Drummer" was a song passed on by the late, great Dublin singer and collector, Frank Harte. 'He is perhaps the single most important collector of songs,' says Christy.
'I remember Christy and myself going up to Frank Harte for songs,' adds Andy. 'I'd known Frank since very early in my career. He was an architect living in Chapelizod and I first met him in about 1963. He was always slightly to one side. It would be Johnny Moynihan and myself and our clique, and Ronnie Drew and The Dubliners, all more or less of the same age, and Frank was probably seven or eight years older than I was. I liked him a lot.'[5]""

Se http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Harte which in turn cites ^ O'Toole, Leagues, The Humours of Planxty, Hachette, 2006, p197 ISBN 9780340837979.

A


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Subject: RE: Origins: A quick question: royalties
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 10:38 AM

Both songs are traditional and go way back before the days of Planxty or the Clancy Brothers. Here's a list of some of the field singers from whom the Little Drummer was collected.

Angelo Dornan
Michael Carrol
Willie Johnson
R.D. Reid
Mrs Rettie
Mrs. Margaret Gillespie
Martin Gorman
Mrs. Carrie Grover

I've just hauled that lot off Steve Roud's Folksong Index and the earliest date of collection given there is 1906 (Margaret Gillespie's version, collected by James B Duncan.

For The Holy Ground (Adieu Sweet Lovely Nancy), Roud gives 113 sources, dating back as far as 1904.

In other words, if anyone living is trying to claim that they wrote either song, they are lying. In fact they are trying to make money by claiming the ownership of something which properly belongs in the public domain and to which everyone should have unfettered access.


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Subject: RE: Origins: A quick question: royalties
From: Maryrrf
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 10:43 AM

I guess it is possible that somebody has copyrighted an arrangement, in which case you could go back and base your version on one of the traditional versions, thus avoiding the royalties.


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Subject: RE: Origins: A quick question: royalties
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 10:48 AM

That is indeed possible. However, it is one thing to copyright an arrangement of a traditional song, which lots of people have done. Claiming authorship is something else entirely.


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Subject: RE: Origins: A quick question: royalties
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 12:45 PM

In this video the Planxty singer attributes The Little Drummer to an old woman he met "in the jungles of Tipperary".


A


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Subject: RE: Origins: A quick question: royalties
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 06:46 PM

As Maryrrf said . So DONT copy an arrangement - work it out your own way and let them try and sue !


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