Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)

Subject: Tall Ships with NO shanties
From: CupOfTea
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 06:51 PM

So here I sit in my studio on a hot afternoon in Cleveland, manifestly NOT down at the harbor watching the Great Lakes Tall Ships Challenge (prolly has some trademark or something I'm supposed to use) "Parade of Sail" into the Port of Cleveland.

I'm disgusted and a fair bit wroth at the long list of lacks this situation has, but mostly, that there are no singers of traditional sailing songs of any stripe (I don't credit a Jimmy Buffet tribute band as traditional enough for me, though I'm sure there are sailors who might think he is, but he's naught to do with nautical on the Great Lakes)

In past Tall Ships series in the Great Lakes, there have been more stops, more ships, more publicity and more traditional performers. Further along on this Challenge, a Michigan city much smaller than Cleveland, will host a sea/lakes songs festival which looks to be wonderfully diverse. There are performers who work hard at keeping the Great Lakes song tradition alive, particularly Lee Murdock. I know Chicago has a sea song fest. Why is Cleveland so indifferent to it?

I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg, but the lack of support for traditonal folk music seems to go hand in hand with a lack of regard for our waterfront as an important part of our city's history and tremendous asset for the future. Our former steamship museum the William S. Mather - a ship similar to the Edmund Fitzgerald, who even the hoi poloi have heard of - was so disdained by the city powers that be that it barely escaped banshisment entire. Instead, it has a less dignified kind of banishment by being given to the Science Museum and being shown as a generic "steam ship." Only technology is featured, not the history of shipping and the impact of that on the city's history.

Is the lack of traditonal music the equivalent of the canary in the coal mine for our heritage?

Joanne in Cleveland, the city that always apologizes for itself, south of Lake Erie.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 07:33 PM

Joanne - All we can do is sympathise from T'Other side of the Pond !
More Missionary work is all I can suggest

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 10:16 PM

It's a tough job working with those who organize tall-ship events. The last thing they tend to think of is traditional nautical music. When they do think of music it seems to be brass bands or even rock bands.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 08:29 AM

Because they believe (correctly I fear) that the public will pay to hear the rock bands but not to hear the other.

The least they could do would be to make the rockers wear striped shirts and tarpaulin hats.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: Sugwash
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 08:39 AM

A sorry situation, I'm sure that the public would have appreciated a salty song or two. You could always rustle up a 'flash mob' of shanty singers and crash their party.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 09:24 AM

Lighter-

I would go one step further and have the rockers wrap themselves up in anchor chain and then give them the deep six.

But that would be wrong!

So very wrong...blub, blub, blub!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: GUEST,sinky
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 10:03 AM

sorry,wrong site,i thought it said tall hips with no panties

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: radriano
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 11:41 AM

Send them to Davy Jones.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 12:35 PM

Charley: less wrong, though, if they were wearing pirate (or do I mean "pyrate"?) suits.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: John J
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 12:42 PM

On not a dissimilar tack, I recently went on a Morris weekend - they put a rock & roll band on the Saturday night.

JJ

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 12:57 PM

start a fringe event, Joanne. find a nearby bar (ideally) or church and invite friends, nearby folk clubs, and advertise it at libraries. good luck.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: KathyW
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 11:42 PM

It is disappointing that there isn't more traditional maritime music involved at the various ports involved in the Tall Ships events. As Joanne notes, Bay City, Michigan does have an impressive line-up with its "International Maritime Music Festival"-- and even they apparently are having an Alice Cooper concert the Saturday night of their event. Go figure.

In Chicago, I know that there will be at least Tom Kastle, and Bounding Main-- don't know if there will be others because the entertainment schedule isn't posted. And give credit where credit is due, Tom Kastle and Chris Kastle have worked for years to foster interest in maritime music in Chicago. So at least some of the organizers of "Pepsi Tall Ships Chicago" know to think beyond rock bands.

I guess now's the time to plan ahead for next time, three years from now. Joanne, can you join/infiltrate the Cleveland Rotary Club? :-) Apparently they had a hand in organizing the festival in your town this year.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships with no shanties
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 05:07 AM

Perhaps you should all come to the original Cleveland in the North East of England.
Hartlepool (in Cleveland) is hosting the Tall Ships in August ( 2010 ) so you might understand why I was a little confused by the thread Title.
Maybe you could Google for further details.
Cheers
Betsy

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:08 PM

My sympathies. I have been involved as part of the planning of several OpSails in New York. A few of you may recall that I attempted to book some groups from the Cat. Everything went fine until, on the last one I worked, my budget was zeroed out and an expensive booking agency was brought in which hired "name" groups. Read that as rock and pop groups.

The more things change, they more they stay the same.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 09:31 PM

Betsy-

It's a pity this event isn't happening in September when I'll actually be resident in the UK looking for interesting things to do.

Joanne-

Do you have any sort of nautical singing gang to work with? We might be able to organize a Mudcat Flying Squadron for at least a "shanty raid."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: Betsy
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 07:28 PM

Hi Charley - nice to see someone has changed the thread to " Ohio" to avoid confusing people like me.
I'm sure you'll get plenty of good helpful advice from Mudcatters this side of the pond if you post your itinerary / locations for September. Good luck on your travels.

Betsy

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 08:24 PM

Betsy-

We pretty much know what we're doing for the first three weeks of September but we're always on the lookout for other things of interest. This will be our third trip and we'll mostly be staying with friends. And I can drive quite comfortably on the other side of the street; it's only the triple roundabouts we encountered above Liverpool that threw me for a loop!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: GUEST,Tom Kastle
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 11:51 PM

I do remember playing Cleveland's tall ship fest a few years ago and it went quite well. I don't know what happened this time though I know there were a few on the "committee" whi wanted to have maritime music but they must have been voted down. Please make your views known to them! There will be lots of maritime music around the Lakes this Summer though!

Bay City has an extensive sea music fest as part of their tall ships fest as does Green Bay. I'm playing and hosting the Parade of Sail in Duluth and Chicago and will also be playing at Erie Tall Ships in September.

If you want a maritime fix off season definitely try the Chicago Maritime Festival as Kathy suggests; more than a sea song fest. It includes 30-25 seminars and workshops, an evening concert with performers from around the world, and an outreach program to 4,000-5,000 people at area schools, libraries, senior centers, and adults with disabilities. It is supported by the maritime community in Chicago including charter boats, marine artists, underwater archeologists, scientists, divers, canoe and kayak paddlers, tall ships, marine police, US Coast Guard, National Weather Service, and more. Featured performers should be posted in about a month but they include Tom & Chris Kastle, Serre l'Ecoute, and some special guests. Hope to see you there. Thanks. --Tom

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 01:34 AM

I'm afraid that as with all major events like this, the all-controlling factor is money and if a rock/pop/tribute band will get bums on seats as it were, then the organisers will go for them, regardless of genre, suitability or taste.

Their thinking is on the lines of 'people will pay $XXX to see these people, they'll come early and pay us $XX to park. There is always the hope that some people might be interested enough to find out more about what is going on around them, but I'm afraid that in the majority of these things, it is the mass that will be catered for, not the minority. The mass will degenerate to the lowest common denominator and regretably for the rest of humanity, the lowest common denominator in that sort of mass is usually a couple of steps short of 'moron'.

Many a good locally theme based festival has been ripped apart by the 'more people = more money' ethos, by organisers who can see only currency.

And just to prove a point - remember all the fuss a few years back when they started to build the Olympic park in east London? All the promises for 'local resources', how it would be to 'east London's benefit'? I can tell you now that according to a source within the Olympic Committee, the promised amount of jobs for local firms has not materialised and for the opening/closing ceremonies, not a single act or group booked so far, comes from the local area. In fact, those ceremonies are organised years in advance, by a company who have absolutely no contact with any local groups. For 2 years now, my local choir has been trying to get a spot, even commissioning a well known composer to write the piece specially. Last week we were told the line up has already been set. Getting an unknown, local group or act into any Olympic-based event is harder than getting into Fort Knox because even one of the biggest events in the world wants bums on seats and hard cash in the bank.

LTS

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: Tootler
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 03:05 PM

The Hartlepool Talls Ships event has a parallel folk festival with plenty of acts who are well known locally. There is Mudcat thread about the event here

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 03:37 PM

If you sing them, they will listen.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: CupOfTea
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 06:45 PM

They've sailed away to happier ports. I didn't go, and neither did anyone I know who I'd have expected to be there, including some folks who'd been on the organizational side of earlier Tall Ships Cleveland visits.

I loved the idea of a flash mob/ shanty raid hitting up the festival - would that there were enough wild and strong voiced souls around here with the will and the repertoire to do it!   I was recently bowled over by a grand group of shanty/maritime song singing men from Columbus, Ohio (and that's about 3 hours downstate, inland, go figger?). I see our lack of having the local resources in singers as just one facet of the larger issue of this area turning its back on our history unless it has to do with sports or rock and roll. What Liz said about lowest common denominator hits a nerve here: it's ghastly, but I think she's nailed it.   That "pyrate" thing has hit up on Put In Bay with a vengence. (insert eyeroll here) But then, besides having Perry's Victory and Peace Monument, PIB is most noted for being the drinkyouselfstupid capitol of Lake Erie. With the centennial of the War of 1812 coming up, I can HOPE they'll have some performers who can sing of history.

Lovely also to see Tom Kastle weigh in - I've enjoyed his singing (and songs) for years. I very fondly remember the times he and Chris have been here, both at the harbor for Tall Ships and at my place for a house concert. I've wistfully watched You Tube videos of the Chicago Maritime festival & hope to get there some year.

It wasn't until last week, reading some of the press releases that I realized the head of the Rotary group running the festival is a parishioner at the church where I work. We shall have words & with some luck the words may lead to having traditional music the NEXT time the Tall Ships are in town. It's been a big chunk of years since I was active in promoting anything other than house concerts, but working to see that next festival is NOT "history-challenged" seems like something I could, and should do.

Thanks for all the kind words of sympathy and support & I urge everyone to go out and support YOUR local shanty singers!

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: GUEST,A Hardtacker
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 08:19 AM

I am a member of "The Hardtackers" shanty group from Columbus, OH. (Thanks for the compiment, CupOfTea). We are the official shanty team for the "Santa Maria" docked in downtown Columbus. Our gig-getting guru tried repeatedly several months ago to offer our services, even on a volunteer basis, to the Cleveland Tall Ships event. He got no response from the event organizers until a few weeks before the festival when an earnest, but ill-informed young lady called to say she would tell her superiors about our calls and wanted to know just what a shanty was. We heard no more from them, but the interactions we had did not instill in us much confidence in the event.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 05:09 PM

"wanted to know just what a shanty was"?

Well, a shanty is a chanty is a tchantie!

When did Columbus sail into the center of Ohio?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: GUEST,Dizzymoth
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 06:39 PM

Charley,

It was 6:32am last Wednesday. We were all there, where were you?

Go here for The Hard Tackers www.hardtackers.wetpaint.com

They are Ace.

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 12:15 AM

I think that if there are tall ships, there should be shanties. If the tall ships organizers don't schedule singing, then get a bunch of people together and sing anyhow, dammit!

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tall Ships festival with no shanties (Ohio)
From: GUEST,A Hardtacker
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 10:56 AM

It is a little-known factoid that the Santa Maria was not wrecked on a reef in the Caribbean, as we have been told. The truth is that ole Chris found a good parking place in downtown Columbus and was not willing to give it up.