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A Clockwork Morris
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Ruth Archer Date: 22 Jul 10 - 05:15 AM In response to the post above: My understanding is that permission to use the footage has been given in EVERY case: much of the footage of the morris teams was provided, with permission, by the sides themselves; all other footage was provided to David Owen, specifically for the film, by Doc Rowe. Doc is a stickler for getting all the correct permissions, making sure there is no offence caused, respecting the wishes of people he is filming, and understanding the parameters of how different groups practice their traditons. The fact that the side has not let itself be notated does not equate with not letting itself be filmed, or in fact with dissemination of that film. The Bacup Coco Nutters, for example, equally objected to their dance being notated, but that has not stopped them from being recorded and the dance broadcast, nationally and internationally, over the years. And to reiterate, there was NO actual issue of copyright infringement when it came to Wendy Carlos. A quick google will tell you that she is notoriously litigious and mad as a box of frogs: having created a lot of early electronica, she seems to think it belongs to her and that anything that remotely references her work is an infringement of her copyright. Unfortunately, pioneering a genre doesn't mean you own it. That was the conclusion Youtube came to as well, which is why the film is back up on their site. |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Snuffy Date: 22 Jul 10 - 02:57 AM Hi Eliza, I did see Tim and his son (both of whom are prominent in the trailer footage) on Tuesday night. They appeared not to be aware of the event, and certainly had no idea that footage of CCMM was being used to promote it. They wanted to know more, so I have sent Tim a link to the trailer and one to this thread so he can see for himself. CCMM have always felt that their dances do not belong in the public domain, but are theirs exclusively. At their request the "Black Book" does not contain the Chipping Camden dances. As a dancer with another Cotswold side that also preserves a local village tradition, it is not a view I share (the more people who dance our tradition the better IMO) but it is their sincerely held view and one I respect. Ruth Archer had already raised the subject of copyright violation in relation to the music, so I felt that asking the question was pertinent to the topic, not "looking for trouble". I'm sure David S had no intention of offending or denigrating any of the sides featured, but "ownership" of the tradition (both dance and song) can be a minefield and it is fatally easy to cause offence unintentionally (as I also appear to have done). |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: GUEST,Eliza c Date: 21 Jul 10 - 07:03 PM Hi Snuffy, Why would you ask the squire of Chipping Camden such a question? Are you assuming that David wouldn't have asked, or hoping for a negative response? One does like to think that the folk community supports all its constituents in their efforts to promote what we all love. I would like to assume that he did ask, and that if he didn't that Chipping Camden could see the trailer themselves and make their own minds up about how they feel. Sorry. Your comment looks a little like you're looking for trouble. I don't think that's David S idea at all, to either offend or denigrate anyone. Quite the opposite. We shouldn't feel the need to be so protective, I reckon he's one of us. E |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Manitas_at_home Date: 21 Jul 10 - 07:55 AM Hammersmith surely? Unless CLW means the guys *dancing* near the start of the video. |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Snuffy Date: 20 Jul 10 - 12:58 PM CLW It's Chipping Campden. I'll be seeing their squire tonight. As the side have always requested that their dances not be published (and the Morris Ring, for one, has always respected this wish), I'll ask him if they've been approached by David Owen for approval of his using their performance in his film. |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: GUEST,crazy little woman Date: 20 Jul 10 - 12:40 PM I want to know which team has the cute young guys from the beginning of the video. |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: GUEST,Bloodstone Lins Date: 20 Jul 10 - 11:09 AM Bloodstone Border from the Isle of Wight are the red n black team and we are new so great to get on this - I'm banging the drum, ha haarr |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Desert Dancer Date: 10 Jul 10 - 11:58 AM Sorry, I realize I neglected to say here that I really like this video! (The other Facebook thing I did with it was to share it.) ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Desert Dancer Date: 10 Jul 10 - 11:50 AM Well, I'm not outraged, or anything unsafe... :-) (the additional nations represented in this thread are New Zealand, Canada, and the U.S.) ~ Becky, whose last name happens to be of Cornish origin, FWIW |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Edthefolkie Date: 10 Jul 10 - 10:49 AM The vid is just about the best thing since "Morris On" IMHO. I do hope Mrs Kubrick isn't dashing off a writ though. |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Ruth Archer Date: 10 Jul 10 - 06:52 AM Desert Dancer, I'm not sure which nations you're referring to, but morris is an English tradition, and the map in the film is of England, and the "one nation" bit refers to the different types of morris that evolved in different regions of England. Unless you're a Cornish separatist, I'm not really sure how that idea could be intrinsically objectionable... |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Bernard Date: 10 Jul 10 - 04:53 AM Ummm... maybe Wendy Carlos has shot herself in the foot... if the music 'sounds a bit like hers', then surely she's guilty of plagiarism?!! ;o> |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Desert Dancer Date: 10 Jul 10 - 12:12 AM That's at least three other nations (other than the morris mother nation) represented for here, by my count... |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: JohnB Date: 09 Jul 10 - 09:59 PM Also Stone Monkey(twice), Brittania Coconut Dancers, either Ouse Washes or Gog Magog(not sure which) and Pig Dyke (the Black and White outfits, who Mudcatter Anahata plays with when he has nothing better to do. Great little Flick, it is a long trip from Canada though. JohnB |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Tootler Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:19 PM And the Longsword included the Redcar Sword Dancers among others. |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Ruth Archer Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:14 PM Why would anyone object to that? |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Desert Dancer Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:02 PM Saw this trailer when EFDSS posted it on Facebook. I commented that some might take issue the "one nation" idea... ~ Becky in Long Beach, Calif. home of Wildwood Morris |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Micca Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:57 PM The opening trio are in Hammersmith Morris Men Kit and in the middle (the Green guy with the bass drum) was at Hastings Jack in the Green as the drummer is the landlord of the Stag Inn |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Michael Date: 09 Jul 10 - 05:57 PM Thanks Emma, I was getting worried. Mike |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Little Robyn Date: 09 Jul 10 - 05:36 PM I saw the Padstow Obby Oss - just for a second. And a Maori warrior doing a haka. Is it coming to NZ? I'd love to see the whole thing. Robyn |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Ruth Archer Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:53 AM "does he do T-shirts?" He does, you know. |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Emma B Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:37 AM Clockwork? Windup? Oh dear :) |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Bloke from Poole Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:35 AM The sides are real, I'm pretty sure the event is real, and it the trailer is friendly and informed. |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: SteveMansfield Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:28 AM Oh, forgot to add, Here's a link to his website ... |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: SteveMansfield Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:24 AM Since Owen's work reimagines various pop-cultural icons with a morris or folk/folklore slant, I would surmise that GUEST has issues with that. Obviously a view of Owen's work that we need to get extremely worked up about, especially as GUERST couldn't even be bothered to sign in. Me, I love it, I'm only sorry I won't be able to get down to see it & hope it comes on tour to the And I speak as someone who howls with rage whenever someone takes a YooToob clip of a Morris side, puts some God-awful banging techno 'music' to it, and then asks 'Is this the future of Morris dancing' or some such cretinousness. Perhaps our illustrious GUEST is confusing the two processes, however. |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Ruth Archer Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:12 AM Ummm...why? |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: GUEST Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:14 AM Are you sure this is real? Sounds like a windup to me. Mike |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Little Robyn Date: 08 Jul 10 - 05:12 PM Love it! Robyn - Heart of the Sun Morris NZ |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Jul 10 - 04:32 PM I think it might have been the electronica layered underneath English Country Garden during the Clockwork Orange homage. Which was in fact written and mixed by Jim Moray (the electronica, not ECG). |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: VirginiaTam Date: 08 Jul 10 - 04:08 PM installation looks like a hoot! sadly we can't go. which bit of the William Tell Overture or English Country Garden does she consider to be hers? |
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Subject: RE: A Clockwork Morris From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Jul 10 - 01:00 PM Oh - and it cracks me up that Wendy Carlos tried to have the trailer removed from Youtube for copyright violation because the music at the beginning sounds a bit like hers. Glad it's back! |
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Subject: A Clockwork Morris From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Jul 10 - 08:57 AM Trailer for David Owen's SBC show, "5000 Morris Dancers for London" Glorious. Can't wait to see it. |
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