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BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
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Subject: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Donuel Date: 08 Jul 10 - 11:14 AM Twenty years ago I painted a 16 sq. ft. canvas that depicted the 9-11 disaster and the great sunami of Indonesia. I did not know exactly why I did it but it was a compelling project I had to do. Ten years ago I predicted all the financial evil in the mud was about to hatch out in a global depression. Yelling a warning has its costs but is essential despite the objections and criticism leveled against the messengers. The same compelling sad feeling propelled me to post this regarding the coming disaster to the North East US Deleware water shed that feeds NYC the finest tap water on earth. The destruction will stretch from the Catskills to the Chesapeak Bay. The disaster is nearly 10 years away but still has time to be averted. We all know that natural gas is at an all time low price but few know why. Those who have exploding tap water from Texas to Wyoming know why. The area of the deadly destruction in the wake of fraking the earth with poisons to puch up natural gas for collection is already immense. The man at the throttle of the fracking disasters is my old friend Dick Cheney. I imagine that a political knee jerk by the right will apologize to and defend the gas companies respondsible just becasue Cheney played such a large role in granting exceptions to all enviormental laws in behalf of gas companies to lease anywhere they want and commit any enviormental crime against man and beast alike. The same as the BP ocean and shore disaster could have been averted with awarness, the gas fracking disaster will eventually unfold in a similar fashion without abatement. Prior to the BP oil spill the total number of gallons of spilled oil on land and sea from every possible source waa about 1 Billion gallons. The BP disaster will in all likelyhood add another 1 Billion gallons to that total. IF you think all is well with money for cleanup and relief wells are on they're way to success you are looking through pollyanna glasses. All solutions at this point fall below a 50% success rate. The $20 billion promised is not even securitized and can be wiped away in a declaration of bankruptcy by BP. BP is currently working with an army of lawyers to obtain the best possible bankruptcy. But I digress. the point is... See or comment upon the HBO video Gasland. Goggle the documentary 'Gasland' for an overview of America's next man made disaster to come. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 08 Jul 10 - 01:21 PM Seen Gasland. Well worth if everyone see's this documentary. ..... the process of fracking is concerning .... it looks like the province I live in, New Brunswick is going to be a target for for this dangerous process of extracting natural gas. Sussex prepares for possible natural gas boom Problem is ... many people are unaware of the dangers of 'fracking'... and because of their ignorance, will buy into it. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 08 Jul 10 - 01:24 PM ooops here's the link to that CBC article, if anyone is interested possible natural gas boom in N.B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jul 10 - 01:56 PM They've been fracking around Fort Worth, TX, for quite a while now. Haven't done my neighborhood yet (I don't know if there is a well under us yet to fracture). Pretty soon they're going to have to start renegotiating all of the leases they haven't acted upon if they don't start paying royalties. I imagine with all of the discussion of fracking, those discussions could be long and messy. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: LilyFestre Date: 08 Jul 10 - 05:03 PM Three drilling platforms are within a mile of my home...each platform can support up to 8 wells. There are a good 15 or so platforms within 4 miles of our home....it's destruction at it's finest and a community that is very worried. Michelle in the Marcellous Shale area |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 08 Jul 10 - 07:48 PM And don't forget that near me they are working on getting gas out of what would be uneconomic coal mines by partly burning it underground... it generates a lot of waste water that is almost suitable for drinking with a little cleanup - and Australia is a dry country, so such things as lots of 'free' water are very enticing. Toowoomba has lots of gas - supposedly just air - that is pressured into the town water supply - have to let it stand to get clear water. I've found that Kaolin Clay in suspension eases gas - it's getting more difficult to get it easily from chemists cause the big companies want to get money for all their cute patented goops, but is is 'natural' and fairly cheap - you could even try the potter's supplies - even parrots in the wild eat it to deal with the after effects of eating various berries.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Donuel Date: 09 Jul 10 - 01:32 PM The amount of gas that is released into the air at these wells is enormous. Often it is 25 to 300 hundred times the safe limit for human respiration. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Tannywheeler Date: 09 Jul 10 - 02:01 PM This practice is killing wildlife & poisoning ground water. It is an enemy of all that lives on the planet. Oppose it. Stop it. Make the exploration comps. find ways to clean up their mess. Tw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Dharmabum Date: 09 Jul 10 - 05:43 PM My house is located about a quarter of the way up a mountain that has the second highest elevation in Potter County Pennsylvania. That hill produces some of the coolest,clearest,springwater in the area. I just learned this weekend,that one of the property owners above me has leased the mineral rights to the gas company. All I can say,is, OH SHIT! DB. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 Jul 10 - 09:14 PM A short article in the NY Times Sunday Magazine 2-3 weeks back was about "disregulation." Inadequate government regulations are behind a lot of destructive practices including the BP disaster. It looks like production of gas from fractured rock like the Marcellus could be a major polluter and disrupter of water sources. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 09 Jul 10 - 10:14 PM "Make the exploration comps. find ways to clean up their mess" That's easy, once it fonds its way to the surface, they just burn it - waste I call it - safety procedures, they call it. "I just learned this weekend,that one of the property owners above me has leased the mineral rights to the gas company." Looks like it's time to buy a rainwater storage tank.... oh wait... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,Kathy Westra Date: 10 Jul 10 - 09:58 PM The nonprofit group American Rivers recently named the Upper Delaware River Valley one of the nation's most endangered rivers because of the threat to the water supply posed by hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, to obtain natural gas. Yale Environment 360, which in my opinion is one of the best environmental news sources anywhere, did a fairly in-depth article on the risks of obtaining natural gas from shale by fracking. We should all be very, very concerned, as so many have pointed out. Our country's fossil-fuel-centric energy policy is disastrous, from oil drilling to fracking to mountaintop removal coal mining. I despair for the world we're leaving our children. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Jul 10 - 11:15 PM Our mineral and other leasing and exploration regulations fail to protect some of our most productive land, recreational and heritage lands, water sources, rivers and wetlands. See "Dysregulation Nation," Judith Warner, New York Times Magazine, June 20, 2010. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: mousethief Date: 11 Jul 10 - 12:49 AM BP is currently working with an army of lawyers to obtain the best possible bankruptcy. This will, of course, be blamed on Obama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST Date: 11 Jul 10 - 11:47 AM "Fracking in Pennsylvania and I've got a hunch, The people in the burbs will drink gas for lunch." Apologies to Tom Lehrer (whose songwriting skills we need desperately now.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jul 10 - 01:35 PM I think it more likely that an alliance will be formed. BP has some excellent leases, and there will be behind-the-scenes bids by other majors and state-owned companies. The end result will be a very lean BP, not a global explorer. Notice "I think." I honestly dunno; it may be a little early to make guesses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 11 Jul 10 - 01:42 PM Welcome to the pardee, DB. We'uns has been in Frackville for over a yea know. Right next to us. Dog already sick. Gonna start buying bottled water myself. Thanks Donuel. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Jul 10 - 05:33 PM We have piped city water or we'd be looking at bottled water here. I'm in the Barnett Shale formation in North Texas. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Dharmabum Date: 12 Jul 10 - 09:08 AM Right next to my property line is the local watering hole. It's literaly a pipe sticking out of the bank along the side of the road that I've seen provide better than ten gallons of fresh spring water a minute. This originates from the same source that provides my house with water. It's also where the folks from the local camps come to fill their water jugs. One of the main reasons I bought this piece of land was the water supply & even during the years I had no electricity running to the house,I always had a supply of drinking/bathing water. I'm not against extracting natural resources from our planet. If it's done in a responsable manner. Unfortunately,when the process is driven by profit & greed,the resposibility of these corporations to do it safely,goes out the window. My hope is that the BP oil disaster raises the awareness to the dangers involved in drilling for these resorces & regulations are put into place before it's too late to save what's left of our planet. That's my hope. In reality,well, I fear that's a different story. Plain & simple;the fracking process,which involves pumping millions of gallons of water containing toxic chemicals into the earth,is bad. Only a percentage of the fracking fluid is recovered & without proper regulation,who knows where or how this fluid is "disposed" of. I was contacted by one of these gas companies a couple of years ago about leasing my land. I requested they put me in contact with individuals that they'd done business with. I haven't heard back from them. No surprise there. DB. On a footnote; The entire time I'm writing this message,I'm looking at a Google ad on the bottom of my screen advertising oil & gas well investing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 12 Jul 10 - 12:35 PM Still drinking it though? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Dharmabum Date: 13 Jul 10 - 06:15 AM For now yes Susan. They haven't started any drilling yet,& other than what I've heard,I see no signs of activity. But once they do,I'll be jioning you with my bottle of water. DB. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Jul 10 - 11:59 AM DB, I hear NYS ain't fracked up. Where can we find a good NYS spring? I'm talking a vanload. Paying for water..... grates mah aiss! I haiz containerz! 'Member when we "all" thought the Water Wars would be over planetary "shortages." Little did we suspect that big bidness would pizen it first. Batten down the hatches, water-drinkers... Me, I drank juice and Coke all day ydy except for the 1/4 of filtered wellwater for bedtime pills-- the juice were all gone by then. Burning gasoline to go get Wally World water.... so much is wrong with that! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 13 Jul 10 - 12:02 PM "Burning gasoline to go get Wally World water.... so much is wrong with that!" I like that, so true ... good one! biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Dharmabum Date: 13 Jul 10 - 03:33 PM Look at the bright side Suz, If they frack up our water bad enough,we'll be able to burn that in our cars! DB. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Jul 10 - 06:51 PM Zevon moment-- My Sh*t's Fracked Up. If you find a good (safe) spring up here, or in NY-- call me! Hell, can I fill up at your place? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Dharmabum Date: 14 Jul 10 - 07:52 AM Hell yea Suz! Bring over as many containers as you can haul & fill 'em up before they fruck up my water supply. DB. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Jul 10 - 08:40 AM If you are up here now, pls PM or email direx. I only recall part of it-- strokebrain. Or we can meet in Ulysses at the Corner Cafe. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Jul 10 - 09:03 AM PS Greg is free tomorrow night to co-pilot. We really like that Corner Cafe, go there often! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Jul 10 - 08:32 PM So Donuel or anyone-- can I re-use the containers I already have, if frack-affected water has been sitting in them awhile? Can we "safely" shower in it? ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: bubblyrat Date: 15 Jul 10 - 05:27 AM Exactly what is "gas fracking" ?? Not a well-known expression over here in medieval England !! Explanation required ( so that we can avoid it ; it sounds unpleasant !). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jul 10 - 08:45 AM Hydraulic fracturing of rock layers. Look it up at Wikipedia for the ways it is used harmfully and benignly. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 15 Jul 10 - 09:19 AM The article that Kathy Westra provided a link to at 9:58p on the 10th explains the process and its dangers pretty well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: VirginiaTam Date: 15 Jul 10 - 02:48 PM Fracking is short for fracturing specifically fracturing rock to release natural gas trapped in it. Water and chemicals under pressure are used to do the work both of which end up in ground water and soil. The US govmint under Bush and Co gave oil and gas companies amnesty from environmental laws. So these companies have been buying up mineral rights anywhere there are deposits of trapped gas in a particular type of rock (some kinda shale). According to the map shown in the film trailer the practice is quite prevalent in southeast England too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Jul 10 - 11:14 AM We not only picked up almost 40 gallons of non-fracked-up (NFU) springwater yesterday (thanks DB), but I just nailed a reservation for the first 10 days of vacay in a non-NFU campground WITH a cool, deep swimming lake I have adored before, that is scooterable. Possibly even from the campsite and back, but at least scooterable from beach parking lot, to lake, to loo and so forth. It also has shady sitting areas at the lake. The res was.... the last remaining campsite in this busy heatwave season where our northern campgrounds are feeling the pressure from heat and fracking. It's in full sun, but we have shade canopies and we know how to use them. And it's a a good 50' to the nearest camper on each side, as well as being a good 50' deep. Our little rig will set WAY back in that spot, leaving plenty of shaded and rain-protected sitting/scooter storage in front if if the sides are not flat enough. TBTG, ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Jul 10 - 02:15 PM 14 days! The motel we love nearby where we always stop for several nights-- also NFU! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: bubblyrat Date: 18 Jul 10 - 07:21 AM I have just read in yesterday's "Times" about a similarly destructive process,whereby Australian coal-mining companies,who are being granted mineral rights to vast areas of that country,are literally undermining large areas of vines in one of the most productive wine-making regions,causing the complete destruction of thousands of acres of grapes ,and bankrupting the wine-makers ! I mean,a process that affects ones fresh water is serious,yes, but one that threatens production of Pinot Noir ? Shiraz ?....that's a DISASTER !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 18 Jul 10 - 12:20 PM Uh.... b-r.... if you ever find your water supply destroyed, let me know then if you still think that wine thing is funny, eh? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 18 Jul 10 - 07:38 PM In South East Queensland, a few days ago, a big fuss and shutdown of a trial 'Underground Gas Burning' operation - leakage of toluene and benzene into the ground water. First detected in April, but it seems that nobody thought it was 'serious' enough till July, so it was kept a secret... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,LilyFestre Date: 18 Jul 10 - 10:27 PM Out west, apparently the gas companies have created large pits to store the waste water in. Here, in PA, they are burying the waste water in very large bags. Anyway, what they found out west was that the waste water in these open pits was evaporating and along with it went the benzene. Folks living nearby have been breathing this and many are now developing brain lesions and other neurological problems as well as losing their sense of taste. It really IS a scary thing for those of us living near where these gas wells are going in all over the place. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 19 Jul 10 - 08:47 AM Post lost.... Does anyone know-- at what point in the well development/reaping process is the water contamination at its worst? Friends to the west need to know-- they are next, and winter will be here very soon. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: LilyFestre Date: 19 Jul 10 - 03:49 PM Susan, I imagine it is at it's worst in the beginning when they start pumping in large amounts of water and the shale is being broken up....don't know for sure though. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 Jul 10 - 06:30 PM The site near Kingaroy - latest news is that the latest test levels are below the 'minimum'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 20 Jul 10 - 04:20 PM Scientific/commonsense comments wanted: ... the current borough president informs us that · Water contaminated by fracking has an excessively salty taste, the salt being in such a concentration that it is unpalatable.* · At present there is not a concern locally about the purity of the ground water in the county that is being heavily monitored by the Department of Environmental Protection** and *** · Because of their concern for issues of liability and for the safety of the residents of the boro, the boro water supply is tested daily for any impurities, especially those associated with the fracking process.*** · The quality of the boro water is tested daily by the boro in addition to the requirements of testing by the EPA.*** Surveying others who live in the countryside: · There is no present concern about the quality of the aquifer from which the well water is drawn, which is apparently the same source as the boro water.+ · No one in the parish is expressing concern presently about the quality of drinking water, they use bottled water as a convenience drink, not as a replacement for tap water.++ · There is concern about the long range effects of drawing off 4 million gallons of water per day which is the permitted rate consumption of the gas companies— the concern here being not about the quality of water, but the available of water for the future. · That water used in fracking is trucked down to a point below Williamsport where it is treated and then released into the Susquehanna River.+++ · Water released into the Susquehanna river is also monitored by the EPA before it is released into the river.+++ · Thinking people would be more concerned about what folk downstream would be consuming, since the Susquehanna river provides water for many communities to the south, including Harrisburg. · The real area of concern is not about the potable water, but what's in those trucks that bear the signs Residual Waste. For the moment, it would seem that we would be at greater risk from the environmental impact of one of those leaking, spilling, or being in a collision. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * If the borough filters the salt out-- the marker-- how would I know that there might also be other unnamed chemicals in there, since we know that other communities' experience has been that the drillers will not specify? ** Izzat the fed EPA testing (Cheney's holdovers?) or a state agency in a state being benefited by fracking? *** How can they test for chemicals they do not know are there? + They have done research? Or the have not yet gotten worried? Is their property leased-- are they benefiting from the fracking? Are they not worried because they have "conveniently" taken steps that headed off a potential concern? ++ They have money to spend on "convenience" water? Then I guess they must assume that we can afford it, too. +++ If it is safe, why does it have to go downstream, and who is monitoring the effects of the water on the wildlife and human populations there? How can they monitor what they do not know is in the water? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: LilyFestre Date: 20 Jul 10 - 06:51 PM Have you seen the documentary Gasland yet? If not and you get a copy of it (it's on HBO), I'd be interested in seeing it too. I understand it's very educational and frightening but necessary to see. Michelle PS. Safe? I still don't think so. And did you see what Alan Puskar wrote in the paper last week in the letters to the editor part? They had a spill near a farm in Wboro, cows are now quarantined, pregnant cow's calves will be quaranteed for 2 years because they fear they drank the water. Well, ok...but what about all the OTHER animals that drank that water or water that seeped into the ground where crops are grown? Say someone shoots a deer this season that drank that water....how is that going to effect their health? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 20 Jul 10 - 10:43 PM Say someone shoots a deer this season that drank that water....how is that going to effect their health? Yes, we have been thinking about exactly that. "Welcome to the county, flatlander hunters. Enjoy your venison when you get home....." Well, they can read, can't they? It ain't fine print in their portfolio ezzackly... get your fall "posted" signs ready now. "Our deer drink Frackwater, do yours?" No I have not seen Gasland. Budget currently shot to hell. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Dharmabum Date: 20 Jul 10 - 10:59 PM Hope this link works. http://splashdownpa.blogspot.com/ DB. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 21 Jul 10 - 01:17 AM "How can they test for chemicals they do not know are there" Well you can use one of them thare gadgets what spew out a chart with lots of wiggles and see what chemicals them thare wiggles corresponds to.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:51 AM LF, 1. Gasland now on its way here thanks to a nice person 2. ...spill near a farm in Wboro... And.... the stuff that spilled got rained into the groundwater that feeds the boro supply? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Donuel Date: 21 Jul 10 - 12:02 PM I used to live on a farm near Chenango Forks New York. The little 3 foot stream came down some stair step falls and joined a tiny stream in the valley which during hurricane Agness became a quarter mile wide. On a summer day the 3 foot stream would gently bubble gas which was flammable but posed no poisonous aspects to flora and fauna. When gas companies asked farmers to sell their gas rights for thousands of dollars, all but one or two farmers took the money. IF a large tract went up for sale the gas companies would buy lease rights to themselves and put it back on the market. The area now well over 90% leased to gas companies and the eventual permanent peril to this vast Delaware water shed is now on a fast track to death and destruction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Jul 10 - 12:22 PM Didn't New York block further development though? When did that Chenango area stuff happen, Don? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: LilyFestre Date: 21 Jul 10 - 02:30 PM Susan.... Can I watch Gasland with you or borrow it when you are done please? Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Jul 10 - 03:10 PM Hey LF, one area we have not had tome to research is skin absorption. Some of the chemicals I have heard about I think can go in that way. (Neurotoxins, as if any of us need to be dumber!) So since you have a pool, can you look around to see-- how much danger is there in the literature from sitting in pools of FU water? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Jul 10 - 03:20 PM Not So Fast, Natural Gas (PDF) Illustrates the fracking process and outlines the issues. Nice handout. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Jul 10 - 03:27 PM an excerpt from that PDF:
Government Failures Meanwhile, the effects of fracking on water are poorly regulated. In 2005, after intensive lobbying from the energy industry, Congress passed the Energy Policy Act of 2005, which included an edit to the Safe Drinking Water Act that removed hydraulic fracturing from being considered underground injection, which is regulated by the EPA.21 This has been called the Halliburton loophole,22 because of the role that the company appears to have played in influencing its passage. The numbers embedded in there refer to footnotes in the PDF. :~) Not Bible verses-- I'll leave those to our diocese's Social Justice commission, whose chair is actually our first vacay stop (on another matter). ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Jul 10 - 06:55 PM Got some reliable stuff via email today. I say "reliable" because it comes from a source whose personal health situation requires her to do her homework. Anything folks here can add about their impressions of the below would be helpful. ~S~ === This is a good website: http://www.marcellus-shale.us/ There's an awful lot more in the discharged water than extra salt - various chemicals, possible methane, possible radioactivity. They do not need to disclose the chemicals to anyone, not even local fire companies [who are first responders for enviro. disasters here], having been granted an exemption to the Clean Air/Clean Water Acts. The pollution of water is serious and almost certain.... people out west of us a ways (Pittsburgh area and so on) cannot even BATHE in the water because of this, much less drink it. Very, very bad situation. .... a mailing list about natural gas drilling: http://groups.google.com/group/citizensconcernedaboutnatgasdrilling?lnk=srg ======== |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: LilyFestre Date: 23 Jul 10 - 09:28 PM Interesting site. www.gaslandthemovie.com Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Donuel Date: 24 Jul 10 - 02:55 PM If anyone wants a dvd of gasland PM me and I will send them out free of any charge or postage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Jul 10 - 04:27 PM NY Times article on fracking: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/business/energy-environment/24gas.html?_r=1 ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jul 10 - 04:45 PM E.P.A. Considers Risks of Gas Extraction," Tom Zeller Jr., New York Times, July 23, 2010. A public meeting concerning hydraulic fracturing (extracting natural gas "with a cocktail of water, sand and chemicals") at Canonsburg PA was well-attended. People came with horror stories which industry representatives tried to refute. More regulation, the industry warned, would kill jobs and stifle production of gas. "Pennsylvania is at the center of the battle over hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, which promises to open up huge swaths of land for natural gas extraction, but whose environmental risks are still uncertain." -------------- "...the potentially enormous natural gas play of the Marcellus Shale has many residents lining up to lease their land to the prospectors." Fracking mixtures are water, sand, and small amounts of "chemical thickeners, lubricants and other compounds." ---------------------- From experience, I can say that no harmful radioactive compounds are included; occasionally some tracers are used to work out migration paths. I do have worries about the use of the method in many parts of the Marcellus Shale. The Marcellus is at relatively shallow depths in many areas, and fracking may allow mixing of released gas into aquifers which supply water to wells. The fracking essentially disrupts parts of the formation. The Marcellus Shale has low porosity and acts as a seal, keeping fluids in formations below it from migrating upwards. Disruption of this seal could allow stored water in aquifers below it to escape, thus reducing the water available for agriculture, home use and limiting the future of usable water in areas under exploration. Hydraulic fracturing has a long history of use. My experience is limited to its use in oil production, where it was used to open up sands not quite porous enough to release the oil. This was done at depths greater than beds used as aquifers. There were occasional cases where, if there were several porous layers that were drilled through, salt water, e.g., in a lower layer could contaminate potable water in an upper layer. Examine the geology of the area of your interest; if there are danger points do not allow leasing and work to convince neighbors of the dangers to their water supplies. Talk with University geologists near you to get information. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jul 10 - 04:51 PM I do not know the status of leasing in Pennsylvania. Here in Alberta, leases are agreed to by the land owner. Many have bought lands from a previous owner who signed leasing agreements. These cannot be obtained back except by purchase. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 05 Feb 11 - 11:17 AM Frack map: AM I FRACKED UP? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 05 Feb 11 - 03:59 PM A trial plant in Queensland which does the underground coal burn process has been shut down due to small levels of benzene and other contamination of water . Not fracking, but related in terms of similar geological side effects. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Feb 11 - 04:20 PM The comments with the map are not entirely correct. Effect of gravity- Gaseous (methane), light and liquid hydrocarbon compounds will tend to rise in a formation, thus "uphill." Does the map show only drilling for fracking, or are some actually oil wells? The 1000 feet limitation is ridiculous, as mentioned. Depends on porosity of the sediments, type of contaminant, etc. Gaseous and light compounds can go a long distance if there is no natural barrier such as lack of porosity. Depths to the Marcellus beds? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Bobert Date: 05 Feb 11 - 11:08 PM I reckon we are now seein' some of the *secrets* being revealed in the Dick Cheney "energy plan"??? What next??? Hey!!! Ain't challengin' the polluters here to pollute more... BTW, why isn't there a class act5ion suit going??? Oh yeah??? I forgot... We don't mess with polluters... It's bad for Boss Hog Polluters, Inc.... Anti-business... Beam me up, Scotty... They tryin' to burn this joint down... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,bankley Date: 06 Feb 11 - 09:38 AM actor Mark Ruffalo was placed on the terror alert watch list by Penn. Office of Homeland Security last Nov. for promoting and organizing screenings of Gasland. What's wrong with this picture ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Feb 11 - 01:33 PM New York Times today, an article about an earthquake swarm near Guy, Arkansas, possibly caused by fracking according to state geologists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,biff Date: 06 Feb 11 - 01:49 PM question: if we are drilling for natural gas in order to lesson our dependence on foreign energy, who will we be dependent on when we have no clean water left to drink? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: olddude Date: 06 Feb 11 - 02:03 PM I think it is one of the worse things we could possibly do. Sooner or later every person in this country will have a water supply affected by it. The chemicals they use, I have read all kinds of contradictory statements that they cause cancer to they are fine ... problem is nobody really knows ... insanity for sure |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 21 Feb 11 - 06:15 AM Farmers count cost of coal seam gas rush QUOTE ... found the safety data sheet QGC had submitted for the fracking chemical THPS was American, incomplete and 10 years out of date. Chemical management expert Mariann Lloyd-Smith also examined the documents and believes the company may be in breach of the national safety code governing toxic chemicals. Federal and state government regulators put a total of 1,500 conditions on QGC's Curtis LNG Project when they approved it late last year. But Dr Lloyd-Smith believes the company's safety sheets - used in its recent Environment Authority application - are not up to scratch. Under a national code, safety data sheets on chemicals used must contain information on Australian emergency contacts and regulations and be written within the past five years. UNQUOTE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 21 Feb 11 - 02:47 PM The politicians here are trying to justify fattening their bank accounts by going on a (an expensive) vacation in Arkansas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: JohnInKansas Date: 27 Feb 11 - 09:49 AM Regulation lax as gas wells' tainted water hits rivers Dangers to environment and health are greater than previously understood By IAN URBINA The New York Times updated 2/27/2011 The main point of this rather long article is that fracking results in dumping huge amounts of contaminated water into rivers and groundwater sources for public water supplies. 1. The water being dumped generally contains radioactive contaminants from naturally occuring materials in the fracked earth. Levels up to 750 times EPA regulations for radiation in drinking water are reported. 2. Measurement of radiation levels in public water is ALMOST NEVER REQUIRED by EPA. 3. No public water treatment facilities have significant ability to remove radiation from water delivered to the public. Most treatment facilities have NO CAPABILITY for treating to remove radiation contamination. 4. There are additional chemical contaminents with known high levels of hazard in fracking wastewater that are poorly handled by the few public water resource plants capable even of monitoring them, and MOST TREATMENT FACILITIES lack any useful methods of removal. 5. Most of the applicable reports on contamination by fracking wells has NOT BEEN MADE PUBLIC and was found (for this article) only via FOI demands and/or by analysis of "disguised" information in wellhead data reports that are not required to "directly report" environmental impacts. 6. It's all about the money. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,TIA Date: 27 Feb 11 - 10:05 AM Wastewater treatment plants and the downstream (!) drinking water plants almost never test for radioactivity. Be afraid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,Lilyestre Date: 27 Feb 11 - 09:08 PM Yep. I read that article too. Posted it on Facebook. It's scary. Very scary. There are at least 8 drilling pads within 3 miles of our home. Can't help but wonder what's going to happen around this area by the time they are done with us. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Feb 11 - 05:48 AM Rather suggestive incident reported at a link posted in another thread: Man-Made Earthquakes in Iceland. The quakes here are a side effect, like the ones reported for fracking areas? Although Skarpi doesn't believe the "man made" quakes are related to the current flurry of "natural" ones there, when the earth moves, it's difficult to predict where it will stop moving. You can't usually move one piece of ground without shoving another chunk out of the way. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Desert Dancer Date: 28 Feb 11 - 02:10 PM Here's a link to that article at nytimes.com, where they have some graphics and attached documents and other links that are not with the same article at the msnbc.com link that John gave: Regulation Lax as Gas Wells' Tainted Water Hits Rivers. Apparently this article is the first in a series. Really good reporting -- and a frightening report. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Desert Dancer Date: 01 Mar 11 - 07:03 PM Next article in the series: Wastewater Recycling No Cure-All in Gas Process |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: LilyFestre Date: 01 Mar 11 - 07:16 PM I found that article to be very scarey. I live in the area of Pennsylvania that is being heavily drilled. I'm curious about where the injection sites are. I know one is about 15 miles from us but with so many wells around, I wonder where the other ones are. They are also currently building a waste-water recycling center in our area. Time will tell how well it works out but in the meantime......... Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Bobert Date: 01 Mar 11 - 08:01 PM Good news/bad news... Okay, here's the good news: Because of the natural gas we'll all have warm houses... Now for the bad news... ...,of course, we'll all be dead in those warm houses from drinking poisoned water... B:~( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 01 Mar 11 - 10:53 PM The debate is on in Cape Breton on drilling and exploration. The point has been made strongly that fracking will not be tolerated and we want assurance before drilling starts. So far the oil industry has not been truthful about their intention. Although we badly need the employment they can go to Hell if they can't be honest! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Desert Dancer Date: 03 Mar 11 - 11:27 AM next artice in the NY Times series: Politics Seen to Limit E.P.A. as It Sets Rules for Natural Gas ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: LilyFestre Date: 03 Mar 11 - 01:21 PM Sandy, The gas drilling folk have been quite dishonest with us personally. In fact, after several conversations, they have been told to leave and stay off our property (geez that sounds so redneck). They are not welcome to come to the door, down the driveway or to walk through our fields. EVER. Period. Almost all of them drive white trucks (unless it's a water truck...fresh or otherwise) and they are everywhere. I swear I will never, EVER buy a white vehicle ever again! They just make me cringe. Some of the people are decent folk just trying to make a living but a good deal of them drop litter wherever they please, drive down the center of our little back roads, the road damage is ridiculous and in the last few weeks, they've caused several accidents...I'm thinking it's because they have NO idea how to drive in winter conditions (many of them are from the south...we see lots of Texas plates here). They have so much bad press that when they had a fire (about the size of a house fire) going on at one of their well pads (corner of Elk Run Road and Ashley Hill Road), there was nothing in the newspaper about it or on the news. Further, the fire trucks were seen racing out of town but not a light or a siren to be heard. Apparently there's no need to alert the public. I know there was a fire because I SAW IT and a friend of mine who is a driver told me exactly what happened. So why is this not public knowledge??!?!? Creepy if you ask me. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 03 Mar 11 - 02:15 PM JohnInKansas... "Although Skarpi doesn't believe the "man made" quakes are related to the current flurry of "natural" ones there,..." Can you point out the post for me, John? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 03 Mar 11 - 02:54 PM Found it, John. I suppose you could say that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 15 Apr 11 - 07:20 AM CBC New Brunswick Sunday... Episode: N.B. Gas (NEW) The controversy surrounding shale gas drilling and ``fracking.'' 12:00 - 12:30 PM CBAT (3) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Donuel Date: 16 Apr 11 - 12:19 AM Bugger all this looming crap...its all really happening RIGHT THIS MINUTE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: JohnInKansas Date: 17 Apr 11 - 06:27 PM Recent comment: Carcinogens injected into gas wells, report says Millions of gallons of dangerous chemicals used, three House Democrats say Associated Press 4/16/2011 WASHINGTON — Millions of gallons of potentially hazardous chemicals and known carcinogens were injected into wells by leading oil and gas service companies from 2005 to 2009, a report by three House Democrats said Saturday. The report said 29 of the chemicals injected were known or suspected human carcinogens. They either were regulated under the Safe Drinking Water Act as risks to human health or listed as hazardous air pollutants under the Clean Air Act. Methanol was the most widely used chemical. The substance is a hazardous air pollutant and is on the candidate list for potential regulation under the Safe Drinking Water Act. The report was issued by Reps. Henry Waxman of California, Edward Markey of Massachusetts and Diana DeGette of Colorado. The chemicals are injected during hydraulic fracturing, a process used in combination with horizontal drilling to allow access to natural gas reserves previously considered uneconomical. The growing use of hydraulic fracturing has allowed natural gas production in the United States to reach levels not achieved since the early 1970s. However, the process requires large quantities of water and fluids, injected underground at high volumes and pressure. The composition of these fluids ranges from a simple mixture of water and sand to more complex mixtures with chemical additives. The report said that from 2005 to 2009, the following states had at least 100,000 gallons of hydraulic fracturing fluids containing a carcinogen injected underground: Texas, Colorado, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Wyoming, North Dakota, New Mexico, Montana and Utah. States with 100,000 gallons or more of fluids containing a regulated chemical under the Safe Drinking Water Act were: Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma, Mississippi and North Dakota. The report said many chemical components were listed as "proprietary" or "trade secret." [i.e. "we won't tell you if it might be embarrassing."] "Hydraulic fracturing has opened access to vast domestic reserves of natural gas that could provide an important stepping stone to a clean energy future," the report said. "Yet, questions about the safety of hydraulic fracturing persist, which are compounded by the secrecy surrounding the chemicals used in hydraulic fracturing fluids. This analysis is the most comprehensive national assessment to date of the types and volumes of chemical used in the hydraulic fracturing process." [end quote] It's difficult to tell how much we should be impressed by this statement, as it doesn't really provide enough in "hard factual detail" to help with a real examination of the situation. It does suggest that more information is available (to some) than I've been able to find elsewhere. A link at the bottom of the article indicates more information at: http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/. I haven't looked at what might be at that link as yet, although the link verification in Preview indicates there's at least "an article" on the subject there. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 17 Apr 11 - 07:11 PM "The report said many chemical components were listed as "proprietary" or "trade secret." " That is unaccepatable. Full stop. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Apr 11 - 07:48 PM DEP, Shell investigate methane in water by Jason Przybycien przybycj@tiogapublishing.com Published: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:17 PM CDT Copyright © 2011 The Wellsboro Gazette. A Charleston Township family cannot use their water because the flammable gas methane is present. The family lives near a natural gas well pad owned by Shell Appalachia. Shell stated April 12 that the family's well had been disconnected while the methane, a component of natural gas, is tested to see if it came from the nearby gas wells or not. "As part of our commitment to determining the source of the methane, we are fully assessing the surrounding area, including our well pad, as a potential source," Shell said. "Specific to the well pad, Shell is conducting additional inspection and sampling on each of the gas wells on the well pad. At this time, the source of the methane in the water well is unknown. "As part of our assessment of the surrounding area, initial sampling of the surrounding water wells within a 1,000-foot radius of our drilling wells has been completed and there was no detectable methane in the sampled water wells. As a precaution, we also conducted initial monitoring on water wells located within a 2,000-foot radius of our drilling wells." Oh goody. They're investigating themselves. In the meantime the fam has no water supply unless they buy it. THAT will encourage others to report the same issue! (And more workers in our yards, to monitor our wells! Love that!) ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Stringsinger Date: 18 Apr 11 - 09:38 AM Fracking is the poisoning of countries just as they are doing with nuclear plants and fossil burning coal plants. You have to connect this to the bigger picture of corporate American ruining the world to line their pockets. If people are upset enough about all the negative issues in the world today, this makes the corporate world and the Pentagon happy because they can control through shock therapy. When you consider who are the most greedy corporations and tax cheats in the world, gas companies are right up there high on the list. Fracking is part of the bigger picture, an assault on the poor, the middle class and the disadvantaged by corporate "special" interests such as the Koch Brothers and their "Christian" agenda. Keep connecting the dots. Obama wants nuclear energy and is giving out oil leases to companies that have ruined the Gulf Coast. Fracking is part of the picture. The big lie is that there is not enough money to support research and development in alternative wind and solar energies. This is not true! Gas and oil companies combined with Wall Street speculators who are uncontrolled by regulatory commissions will continue to poison the earth to line their pockets and raise prices at the pump. A crime is being committed on the world's people by these corporate "mafias". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 Apr 11 - 05:30 AM We get some US programs here on SBS - some of the US ads get thru. Chevron is assuring us they are spending millions on 'alternate green energy', solar, etc... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Dharmabum Date: 19 Apr 11 - 01:45 PM I've got house setting directly on top of the marchellis shale formation in Potter County PA. I can't see a rig from my house yet,but I hear the thunder. DB. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: LilyFestre Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:44 PM Same here DB. As far as diaster looming? Nope. No more looming, it's here. There was a fracking disaster less than 15 miles from our house on Tuesday. Here's a link to an interesting article...kinda funny...but not: Fracking Disaster And this morning, a water truck (residual waste, I think), tipped over 15 miles from our house in the opposite direction. A friend of mine has 2 adult children working in a local gas drilling company and when she asked them how safe this REALLY is, BOTH of them replied, "Don't drink the water." And oh yeah. They have started drilling more wells on the pad that is less than half a mile from our home. I want to move. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:49 PM Wait till your skies light up like the War of the Worlds, flashing against the reflecting clouds. You and your critters will LOVE that part. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: LilyFestre Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:55 PM Let's not forget the RICDICULOUS amount of trucks, litter and NOISE. If you are used to a quiet living space...FORGET IT. And when they blast for the fracking pathways with dynamite..even though its far underground, it sounds like a war going on with lots of gun fighting. Good times. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Apr 11 - 10:47 AM I'm kinda partial to the red mud now all over the roads and thus all over the air and thus all over the furniture. Having solved the dog-dust-in-the-house issue it's only right that I should gain buckets of it thru the windows. Acourse once yer kitchen is re-grimed ya wanna step out for supper..... but then all the parking lots and tables are full of gasdudes. But the waitresses are very happy! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 31 May 11 - 11:32 AM (I am not at ALL suggesting that anything about fracking is good, but a neat guy just stopped by, and there is a kewl apparent upside even in the midst of all the land-raping.) An appropriately-garbed young man (reminded me of our son Mike) came up to the porch mos' 'speckfully just now (I was proof-listening on my new laptop to an AfAm man a read PD Spurgeon work). He was asking about getting onto the farmland behind, uphill, which is owned by our landlord. Kevin, from PAF: The Public Archaeology Facility (PAF) is a research center within the Department of Anthropology specializing in Cultural Resource Management. PAF's primary goal is to train archaeologists to be field and research specialists within a cultural resource management (CRM) framework. PAF's research focus is the Northeastern United States with an emphasis on the Susquehanna, Chenango, and Chemung Valleys of New York and Pennsylvania. Students receive intensive mentoring in the legal, administrative, and research management of archaeological projects through a variety of grants and contracts awarded to PAF. [my paraphrase of a long chat] "Oh, well, we just want to post flags every 50 feet to dig test pits, to be sure that if there are any archaeological sites under all that fracking-mess, we can make them go around them and then we can look into them or at least record their locations for other diggers. But we don't want the cows to get sick eating our flags. Are they good cows to go among, is there another pasture they can go into when we dig, and who owns the next pieces over 'there'and 'there' and 'there'?" So of course I hooked him up, but how cool is THAT!?!?!?! His "farm manners" were exquisite, and I was in my jammies, totally OK having him set a spell to tell me what-all they do. Nice peeps. Even in a yellow shirt too much like the frackers wear, but it's for his safety I am sure. Dogs liked him OK too. Almost as good as seeing Mike in his plant-conservation days. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Donuel Date: 31 May 11 - 02:01 PM At the risk of raising the price of doing fracking business, people can sabotage them. It was done with logging. There comes a time when the expense of euqipment damages exceed the need to work in that specific location. However legislation is required for sweeping change. Your neighborhood could pass the hat and you will quickly see you can not afford the same lobbyists that Gas COmpanies can afford to hire. One must do what they can afford to do to make a difference here and now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 01 Jun 11 - 10:18 AM ""And I really think that this thing is going to take off and start booming. And I'm hoping with my fingers crossed," Steeves said."" I really think that is in need of rephrasing. The last thing anyone should be wanting in connection with inflammable gas is a BOOM! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 01 Jun 11 - 05:24 PM If it anybody's planning a visit to Blackpool, it might be an idea to do it sooner rather than later: Small earthquake in Blackpool |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:28 AM It's just one fracking thing after another: 100! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: JohnInKansas Date: 26 Jun 11 - 01:00 PM 'Enron moment': Insiders sound alarm amid a natural gas rush 'The word in the world of independents is that the shale plays are just giant Ponzi schemes and the economics just do not work,' analyst writes By IAN URBINA New York Times updated 6/26/2011 8:50:31 AM ET Natural gas companies have been placing enormous bets on the wells they are drilling, saying they will deliver big profits and provide a vast new source of energy for the United States. But the gas may not be as easy and cheap to extract from shale formations deep underground as the companies are saying, according to hundreds of industry e-mails and internal documents and an analysis of data from thousands of wells. In the e-mails, energy executives, industry lawyers, state geologists and market analysts voice skepticism about lofty forecasts and question whether companies are intentionally, and even illegally, overstating the productivity of their wells and the size of their reserves. Many of these e-mails also suggest a view that is in stark contrast to more bullish public comments made by the industry, in much the same way that insiders have raised doubts about previous financial bubbles. "Money is pouring in" from investors even though shale gas is "inherently unprofitable," an analyst from PNC Wealth Management, an investment company, wrote to a contractor in a February e-mail. "Reminds you of dot-coms." "The word in the world of independents is that the shale plays are just giant Ponzi schemes and the economics just do not work," an analyst from IHS Drilling Data, an energy research company, wrote in an e-mail on Aug. 28, 2009. Company data for more than 10,000 wells in three major shale gas formations raise further questions about the industry's prospects. There is undoubtedly a vast amount of gas in the formations. The question remains how affordably it can be extracted. ... ... [Lots more in the article - it's an unusually long one] John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Janie Date: 26 Jun 11 - 09:49 PM And a good one, John. Thanks for posting the link. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: vectis Date: 13 Jul 11 - 02:59 PM I eventually found a link that worked, thanks to Donuel. It runs for about 1.5 hours and each section seems to load automatically. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgreop_gasland-vostfr-1-6_news It is scary stuff and shows how powerful industrial lobbys can ride roughshod over the general public. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 13 Jul 11 - 03:30 PM vectis.... THANKS! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Donuel Date: 13 Jul 11 - 04:33 PM A bit off topic but Exxon's Yellowstone river oil spill is a perfect example of our nation's response to oil disasters. The EPA has taken not merely one water and soil samples to determine the spread and danger of the spil THEY HAVE TAKEN ZERO. Exxon reports that 46 K gallons spilled. It seems that the spill took place over 14 hours, 7 hours or 3 hours. But it doesn't matter since Exxon has refused to measure how much oil arrived at the other end of the pipe at 90 dollars a barrel. Despite the fact that the flow continued from its source under pressure we are told that the amount of time does not matter. When I fill my pool it has always mattered how long I let the hose run, but I guess oil is different. To find the exact ammount of oil "lost" in the pipeline one would need one of those calculators that do subtraction. So Exxon is sticking to their original story, much the same way BP did last summer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:35 PM This is a video, filmed on Thursday morning, by a FB friend of mine, a really decent guy called John LaRose. Fracking Trucks - around 40 passing his house within 5 minutes... As you can see, his once peaceful town is now ruined by a new kind of hell, known only to those who are unlucky enough to live where the Fracking Wells dwell. He's put a few videos such as this on his page, all filmed on different days at different times. Always, they are the same. He and his family are being driven mad with the noise. The community is doing all it can to try and stop this, but so far with no luck. He's also distressed by the amount of wild animals who are getting knocked down by these trucks.. It's insanity to me.... The world is drying up, getting hotter, and here we are, as a species, being led by people who want to either dam the entire planet, or blast millions of gallons of fresh water down into the ground, loaded up with chemicals....and that water will never be seen again.... Drought, drought and more drought....and John is almost weeping at times for what is happening in his state of Pennsylvannia...He's American Indian, so his Spirit lies in the Earth, making all thise even harder for he and his family to endure, and to understand... What the frack are we doing to our planet and to ourselves??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,Eddie1 sans Cookie Date: 22 Sep 11 - 06:40 AM From today's Telegraph (UK) "Cuadrilla Resources' huge gas find in Blackpool could create 5,600 jobs A company backed by former BP chief Lord Browne claims to have found a gas field near Blackpool that could be the largest ever discovered in Britain. By Rowena Mason 6:00AM BST 22 Sep 2011 Cuadrilla Resources believes there are 200 trillion cubic feet of "shale" gas in the Bowland basin, which could result in a Lancashire gas boom creating 5,600 jobs at peak production. Shale is a type of onshore gas common in the US, which is extracted by blasting apart rock in a process called fracking. More testing is needed, but the estimates suggest Britain could have more shale gas than Poland, which has been considered Europe's biggest holder of probable reserves. Cuadrilla hopes to start work on more test wells this autumn. However, it is currently banned from drilling over fears this caused a tremor in Blackpool earlier this year. It is waiting for the Government to decide whether it can restart. Its 200 trillion figure has not been independently verified and often only a small percentage of a probable reserve can be extracted. Current estimates for UK shale gas potential are just 4.2 trillion cubic feet. Executive director Dennis Carlton said initial results show a basin five to 10 times thicker than America's Marcellus shale. Discoveries of shale have tranformed the US gas industry – though, at some sites, there have been claims that fracking contaminates drinking water. Cuadrilla is part owned by Riverstone, where Lord Browne is a partner, and engineering group Lucas." Of course, the "spin" focusses on the 5,600 jobs although only 1700 of these will be in Lancashire. I'm writing to my MP but it will take more than my small voice. Eddie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 22 Sep 11 - 01:51 PM They pulled out of here short of full exploration. Said thay had enough info for now. The government is negotiating with them for full liability IF there are any screwups... yeah, right. They had to pull out. Equipment sabotage... gunfire. We are talkin some pissed off good ol boys. One lad is probably goin ta jail. I dunno... the gas companies have the RCMP ($$$$$) on their side. It's a tough call. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Van Date: 22 Sep 11 - 02:07 PM Could give a whole new meaning to Blackpool Illuminations. It would be good to think that it could be stopped but highly unlikely. Think economic recovery, growth rates, GDP etc. etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Van Date: 22 Sep 11 - 03:34 PM Just read in my local paper that a different compny has applid for a licence to carry out this type of exploration near Sandwich (Kent). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Richard Bridge Date: 22 Sep 11 - 08:06 PM Oh shit! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: JohnInKansas Date: 29 Dec 11 - 08:35 PM Although this is a somewhat older thread, the subject is still alive. Those concerned might be interested in the recent news item at MSNBC 100 years of natural gas? Hype gets reality check. The more complete analysis, referenced at the above link, is at Slate, What the FRAC. Several other articles of interest are cited (and most are linked) at the above links, and I'll leave it to those concerned to read and pick out the details useful to them. There have been a number of other reports, but mostly related to isolated incidences of methane in the water supplies and the like. These reports take a general and analytical view of the whole business, and stronly imply the there is reason to suspect that claims by those seeking fracking permits (in the US) would find mining the BULLSHIT at the feedlots/stockyards about as productive as what they propose (but that's just my one interpretation). John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Janie Date: 29 Dec 11 - 10:42 PM The debate regarding the pros and cons is starting to generate considerable heat in North Carolina. Jeez. 40 years worth of natural gas (if used domestically) vs. how many potential years of loss of safe water, not to mention other environmental concerns? http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10243004/ Have had some "interesting" conversations with my sister - a retired water resource engineer - retired from being a partner in a financially successful firm on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. She primarily dealt with municipal water and sewage treatment. Not unmindful of environmental concerns, but definitely has a bit of a corporate perspective, i.e., the gas resources are going to be exploited so we may as well promote policies that increase domestic consumption so that we benefit domestically. In her limited view, the environmental degradation is inevitable. If the USA is to experience the degradation, it should be off-set by reaping the benefits of natural gas production via fracking. Currently, and for the near future, the domestic market for natural gas is significantly lower than the capacity for production - so many of the corporate players in natural gas production via fracking are seeking permits and regulations to develop production for export. That short- term cost/benefit analysis is what she focuses on. Sister's position is based on her informed opinion (perhaps assumption) that increased natural gas production will proceed and that it will have significant environmental consequences,especially on water resources. Based on her concrete perspective, she is excited about technologies that increase the domestic use of cleaner natural gas over coal. Because she is a concrete thinker, she does not factor in the very finite realities that 1. natural gas will also soon run out (within 40-150 years,) 2. with the increase in world (and/or regional) populations and climate change water resources are becoming increasingly scarce. I love my sister. I respect her. She is a fine musician and especially a talented fiddler. She took the all natural Christmas wreath she brought to our family vacation home to toss into the woods where it will decay instead of dumping it into a plastic bag to be picked up by the garbage men. She recycles with almost religious fervor. And she is absolutely myoptic in some respects. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 26 Apr 12 - 07:35 PM Soooo... the federal governement of Canada is gonna conduct "studies" to see if fracking causes an increase in earthquake frequency. BUT, there are no intentions, as far as I know, to monitor groundwater during these studies. So, is this a good idea? Can you guys critique this, offer me advice, ideas, whatever? When it's ready, will you guys help me get this in the newspapers across Canada?...... An open letter to Premier(s) Whoever/Prime Minister Harper/federal Minister of the Environment Kent: I read in the Moncton, NB Times&Transcript that NB will participate in a study of the correlation between fracking and earthquake frequency. Will these studies also monitor groundwater quality? If so, will the results of the pre-study and post-study groundwater tests be published in the NB newspapers on a timely basis (that is, pre-study results before the study)? Will the chemicals used in fracking during the study be the exact same chemicals in the exact same concentrations during and after the study? Will the frackers be required to supply samples of the fluids injected during and after the study for analysis and will those analyses be published in the NB newspapers on a timely basis? Will you allow sufficient time after the study fracking to monitor and assess the long(er) term affects on groundwater? If so, have you determined what that time period should be? If so, upon what research do you base this time period? If groundwater analyses before, during and after the study are not to be included in this research, WHY NOT? If I am remiss in not being up to date on the details of the studies to be done, please accept my humblest apologies. Also, please reference me as to where I might find this information if previous published. Sincerely, One seriously pissed off citizen... >;-) Nooooo. Ain't gonna do that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 26 Apr 12 - 10:39 PM Here's an addition.... Oh, one more thing. Will all of the members of the legislature who support fracking put their personal fortunes and properties up for compensation to those negatively affected by fracking? After all, those members are asking New Brunswickers who may be affected to do just that and beyond... their land, their livelihoods, their health and their children's health and futures. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Richard Bridge Date: 27 Apr 12 - 05:13 AM With some amusement I must agree with Wildebeest. We have much the same process going on in the UK now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Donuel Date: 27 Apr 12 - 09:29 AM Having started this thread, the salient points still remain while being highly redacted. Another excellent PBS expose' on fracking, primarily in PA, is available to watch on their website. Again I remind you that the fracking plan and the special exemptions to clean water laws happened under Cheney's watch during those secret energy plans which should have been open, transparent and up to discussion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 27 Apr 12 - 03:06 PM Got a link? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge Date: 28 Apr 12 - 10:52 AM I ad` that Mrs.Verdant, the Green Party activist in my cab the other day. She`d said been seeking nomination to represent `yde Park in Parliament. I think sh`es a little off target since it aint a constituency. I said, "I reckon you ought to get on that Mudcat with your convictions. They`re all on about "fracking" now, `specially since Lancashire`s in the frame." She said, "Tell me about it, Jim. I just don`t know what we`re doing to ourselves and the planet. Fracking causing earthquakes and tsunamis, wind factories doing the birds in, `ydro electric plants draining the lakes, oil and gas drilling polluting land and sea and over`ead cables causing `eadaches. Oh dear, Oh dear. When I `ave my fifteen minutes in charge I`ll get shot of the lot of it. Names will be called, `eads will roll and strings`ll be pulled." I said, "I s`pose you`ll be able to survey the "New World" from your cave." She said, "Oh, I `adn`t thought of that!!" Whaddam I Like?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: michaelr Date: 28 Apr 12 - 05:23 PM Interesting article here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 28 Apr 12 - 06:33 PM Yes, it is. thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: eddie1 Date: 08 May 12 - 06:49 AM From BBC News this morning: Environment Agency head Lord Smith supports fracking expansion The chairman of the Environment Agency, Lord Smith, has given his support to the expansion of the controversial "fracking" method of extracting natural gas from shale rock in the UK. Energy companies say the use of fracking will lead to cheaper supplies. Lord Smith told the BBC it could be a "useful addition" to the UK's "energy mix" if certain requirements were met. But critics say there are risks from the process, which has been linked to two earth tremors in Lancashire. The process of fracking (hydraulic fracturing) involves pumping water and chemicals into shale rock at high pressure to extract gas. There has been a boom in the process worldwide, as nations seek new and less expensive ways to increase their energy supplies. But fracking has been blamed for the pollution of underground and surface water supplies, as well as causing minor earthquakes. Lord Smith told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that he would not stand in the way of fracking in the UK, as long as certain requirements were met. The former Labour cabinet minister said the process was capable of causing environmental risks, but with careful monitoring these may be overcome. He insisted that power firms should be required to capture the carbon emissions from burning gas and store them in underground rocks to prevent them contributing to climate change - something power firms are not currently obliged to do. "We need to do all the tests. We need to be very careful about how we do them. My expectation is that they will be able to do them safely and, if they can, then it would provide a useful addition to our energy mix," he said. However, he added that fracking "has to be done safely and we have to develop carbon capture in the storage to enable us to reduce the greenhouse gas impact that it will have". Lord Smith also gave his backing to nuclear power, saying "it has to be part of the overall landscape of the provision of energy". Admitting that he had changed his mind on the issue, he told the BBC: "Twenty years ago I would have said 'over my dead body' for nuclear power. "Now climate change has made a realist of many of us and I have to say it has to be part of the mix." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 10 May 12 - 12:17 PM People in southern PA with friends in not-yet-fracked-up NY state asked me to say what it has been like in our neck of the dust: The Nutshell Version: We failed to understand what the massing of white trucks on the county's borders portended. For us (we rent our home), it all "started" one day when we happened to witness a Land Grab (we actually saw one of the coordinating meetings) in progress (over coffee) at our favorite Mom-n-Pop diner. The next clue was like War of the Worlds. Then we started gathering information and by then it was too late for clean water-- our local help-yourself spring suddenly sported a "Do Not Drink the Water" sign when I went to fetch our supply of drinking water. Now we fetch from a friend's roadside spring an hour west, but the white trucks began massing on his county's borders last fall. My house is full of nasty dust-- we sit between two nearby wellpads, a new "pond" for them to suck all the local groundwater out of, and the farmers who can at last pay off their tractors and who are diversifying from dairy into other means of having grocery bucks. Up the road is the dirt-moving company whose trucks' wheels leave their drying mud all over the road, to be pulverized into... more dust blowing all over my porch storage and into my house. Tourism is nearly defunct. Only a few hunters came last fall. Apartments are perma-booked with revolving groups of gas workers. A one-sleeping-room/houseshare is $600-$1,000 a month (goodbye student housing). TBTG our landlord is also a principled friend, or St. Paul's Canon Rector would now be homeless-- IF we could find housing it's way over our pay grade. I have understated each point. John will recall how hard I tried to get to H'burg for meetings... now I travel to the 'burg and Lancaster just to see frack-free zones and get fresher air. You must understand that our fracked-up water flows SOUTH to.... y'all. Some of it also flows north into NY state. Bear in mind that what will happen in your area has actually already been decided by Big Money, long before you will see the white trucks (that are now red trucks here). It is far bigger geographically and economically than was the strip-mining (rape) of the Appalachians.... If you hear the helicopter traffic suddenly increase bigtime overhead, that's the seismic crew planning where they will be digging. It has all slowed a tad due to price manipulations (there's a current "glut" on gas), but it will come back up soon I am sure. The gas peeps are sure enough they'll be here for a long time that they have bought and built their own hotels and barracks. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 10 May 12 - 06:17 PM My heart goes out to you, Susan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: wysiwyg Date: 11 May 12 - 09:40 AM Thanks, but not us-- we're grateful to be here. The locals, tho. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Desert Dancer Date: 07 Jul 12 - 12:44 PM For music content, video at the link: Songs Against Drilling: With interviews and concert footage, the filmmaker Alex Gibney covers a rally against hydraulic fracturing and accompanying benefit concert featuring Natalie Merchant and Mark Ruffalo. One day in April, I got a call from Natalie Merchant wondering if I would round up some volunteers to film an anti-hydraulic-fracturing concert and rally in Albany. I couldn't resist. First of all, I had thought for some time that the rush to hydraulic fracturing was reckless. Second, I really liked Natalie's idea: mounting a kind of "teach-in" about the topic and a celebration of the activists who had spread the word about the dangers of hydraulic fracturing . Most of the recent political discourse is so grim, shrill and angry. Here, wonderful rocking voices — and man do they soar! — would shake the windows and rattle the walls in Albany, even as Gov. Andrew Cuomo was deciding what to do about hydraulic fracturing . The last song is Sly and the Family Stone's "Everyday People," which includes the lyrics: "My own beliefs are in my song." ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Janie Date: 07 Jul 12 - 06:46 PM North Carolina is now set to join in the disaster. Fracking had been banned. The Republican legislature passed legislation removing the ban a week ago. Gov. Bev Perdue, not necessarily opposed to fracking but mindful there is not enough research and the state does not have sufficient information on which to formulate environmental regulations vetoed it. The Legislature very quickly passed an override. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Bobert Date: 07 Jul 12 - 07:11 PM But, Janie, the Repubs in the statehouse won the override bill by one vote and one Democrat said that she accidentally pushed the wrong button and asked to have it corrected... The Repubs said, "tough"... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 07 Jul 12 - 07:36 PM She pushed the wrong button? How many buttons do they have? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Janie Date: 07 Jul 12 - 09:00 PM Yeh, Bobert. That was a shame, but if the same had happened on a close vote with the Dems in power, on another issue, I suspect the Dem speaker would have acted the same as the Repub. speaker did. Also note (and now I can't find the Rep. maybe you or Jack can.) the Democratic Representative from the Wilmington area who apparently voted for fracking in exchange for an addition to another bill that helped her district re: dollars for the film industry. I can't believe I can't find the info. now with Google. An NC conservation organization revoked a "Green" award she had received previously as the result of her change of vote. She had previously been quite vocal in opposition to the legislation regarding fracking. (I feel like an idiot for not being able to search out the details to name names.) Republicans are in control of the NC General Assembly for the 1st time since 1870. Understand that in terms of North Carolina, at least during the 26 years I have lived here, there is no discernable difference between a majority of Democrat legislators and what people in other parts of the country would consider moderate to mildly conservative Republicans in terms of positions and votes on either the State or the National level. A Republican controlled General Assembly in North Carolina = a reactionary right-wing Assembly. That has been quite clear by their votes. Don't ever forget this is the State that elected Jesse Helms to the Senate for 5 terms. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 01:14 PM The larger problem here is that fracking is potentially dangerous... Big Oil says, "trust us"??? Yeah, right... I mean, why are we making decisions on technologies that scientists tell us can poison our water??? Why aren't the real scientists getting heard... Yeah, we hear Big Oil's scientists... Hey, they represent less than 3% of the science community... Many, when it comes down to it aren't scientists at all... My late father-in-law worked for Big Oil (API - American Petroleum Institute), a K Street lobbying organization that spent a lot of Big Oil $$$ on Congressmen and women... When the Exxon Valdez oild spoill occurred he was sent to the Hill to testify about the effects of oil on the environment... He sat in hearing and in essence told Congress, "Don't worry, be happy, nature has a way of taking care of itself..." Was he s scientist??? Hell no, he wasn't... He had an undergraduate degree in "horticulture" from Cornell College in Iowa??? Yet there he was, an "expert" advising Congress on this massive oil spill... This shit is occurring today... The real scientists aren't being called upon for their expertise... Might of fact, there is an article in the Washington Post today about all the real scientists who can't get a job today... "Real" scientists need not apply... Grrrrrrr.... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 04:47 PM Susi Hamilton, Carol has voted for her until she heard about this. This is the worst kind of political horsetrading and to break a veto no less! I don't agree with her actions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 05:10 PM more news. Carols says. "She's a politician." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Janie Date: 08 Jul 12 - 09:54 PM Thanks Jack. BTW for other readers, Hamilton is not the Dem. Assembly woman who hit the wrong button. Such occurrences are not unusual, especially late at night at the end of a frenetic session. The Republican leader of the Assembly used House rules to be able to ignore her "game changing" request for correction. I'd be offended by that except that if the rules had been used to override a veto I thought should be overridden I am aware I would simply be shrugging and saying "too bad, rules is rules.YOu hit the wrong button Thanks, and live with it." I am also not offended by "horse trading" per se. That is part and parcel of the democratic, legislative process. But Hamilton's arguments in her own favor are as disingenuous as they come. Perdue vetoed the bill not because she is opposed to fracking, but because she is aware there is not yet sufficient research available to do an informed short term cost-benefit analysis, and therefore certainly not enough information available to develop regulations to insure fracking can be done without serious threat to water supplies in the short to mid-term. The United States does not yet have the technology and infrastructure in place to use significantly more cleaner natural gas. Most of the increased production of natural gas brought about by fracking is currently being sold overseas, very profitably for the companies involved and their shareholders. I also understand that it is a temporarily significant economic engine for land owners and economically depressed communities where shale deposits exist. What is clear, however, is that it has not yet been demonstrated that fracking can occur without jeopardizing water resources over the long term, and in the long term, water resources are going to be the most precious and valuable resources we have. My sister is a water resource engineer. Now retired, she spent most of her working career designing water and sewage treatment plants as a partner in an engineering firm. I was often taken aback by her stance that the first responsibility of corporations was to the partners in privately held companies and to stock holders in public companies, and not to the common good, but I will say that she is pretty objective about weighing the science involved with the management of water resources, and always aware that good business and engineering management of water resources must put quality of water ahead of everything else. Good for business. Her take on fracking is that it has not yet been demonstrated that fracking does not threaten water supplies and the science does not yet exist that permits the development of regulations that require measures to reasonably protect water resources. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 10:02 PM Thanks, sis... That is what a lot of us have been sayin' all along... Lets get the science right... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 10:54 PM Gas prices are historically low. In the long run it might be better for this state to sit on the resource and wait for higher prices and cleaner extraction methods. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Janie Date: 08 Jul 12 - 11:19 PM I agree. From a purely geoethnocentric perspective, the figures I have seen published indicate the natural gas resources available through fracking in North Carolina are sufficient to meet the natural gas demand/need within the state for a mere 5 years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 26 Mar 13 - 04:36 PM So, I am lookin at screw type log splitters on You Tube for any ideas I can use and I see a frackin video by ******** Oil! ??? Why does that appear? Odd innit? The ad says frackin has been tried and true and tested for years! and here's how it SAFELY works! and Canada has enough gas for 100 years! Canada? Why does the ad cite Canada? Odd innit? Only thing is, I don't think it takes a soils engineer's hat (I just happen to have one of those in my engineering hat collection) to pause and ask, "Gee Mister Oilyman, what about ALL of the gas in the shale layer that lies above the extraction pipe? Praytell, where does SOME of that gas go and when does it go there?" If I was to take wild guesses, I would say "up" and "immediately". YT "Hydraulic Fracturing: How it works". Just don't say the name in this thread. It'll take them longer to find you. Of course, as to when it will get to the water above and, eventually, to the surface, well, that depends on all the strata above the shale layer. Could take a thousand years or it could get there just after Mr. Oilyman leaves and has no assets to be siezed by a court of law to pay for fouling the water and the land above his extraction pipe. Even if the frackin gas fouled the water before the well ran dry, Mr. Oilyman is cool because he's only responsible for fouling water wells less than one spit metres away from his well, which begs my next question, that being, "Thanks for all the reassuraces, Mr. Oilyman, but why is water testing only done on water wells within one spit metres of your gas well when your frackin pipe goes a load a spit metres further than that? Why isn't water testing done on the entire aquifer that may be affected by the fact that natural gas is lighter than water?" I may be paranoid for wondering why an advert by Imperial Oil appears on my YT search for logsplitters but I am rather "scared" by the inattention to detail of anyone who doesn't realize that natural gas is lighter than water and EVENTUALLY will get to where it is required to go by the simple laws of physics. Your mileage may vary. Oh, BTW, IF they frack us, I am applying for a job. Gonna need the coin if I have to move. Gotta make hay while the sun... still shines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Greg F. Date: 26 Mar 13 - 05:24 PM You think you got problems, gnu? Down here South of the Border we've got what is called the "Halliburton Loophole" - legislation passed during - you guessed it- the Baby Bush administration EXEMPTS fracking companies from the requirements of the Safe Water Drinking Act. Nor are manufacturers and operaters required to disclose the ingredients in the crap they pump into the ground. And what few regulations there are are set up so that the industry id "self-policing". Yeah, right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Bobert Date: 26 Mar 13 - 06:44 PM Hey, wait... What's this about the next big war being fought over water??? So, if water is good stuff then it seems that mixing it with a bunch of poison and pumping it into the ground where we keep the rest of the good water is, ahhhhhhhh... ...purdy fracked up!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 26 Mar 13 - 07:23 PM Bobert... the largest civil engineering project ever undertaken on the earth is the northern water supply to the Tr-State area of the US, Where do you think it will come from in future? And, how do you ensure they will have to buy it? Yes, Q... that IS a conspiracy theory. It's almost as if I think someone is frackin things up for all the money they can and WILL get. Ye western types better not let La Belle Province separate like Stevey boy said he would unless ya get some post dated cheques from him. Yeah, I am full of conspiracy theories... just as full of them as the frackers are full of shit - gas is lighter than water and it don't take an engineer to do the simple arithmethic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Bobert Date: 26 Mar 13 - 07:28 PM The back up plan is to take big ships up to the polar ice caps and bust up big chunks of it, tow it to where it can be converted back to water and use it as the new water source??? Hey, wait... The polar ice caps are already melting and receding at an alarming pace??? Back to square #1... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Mar 13 - 07:52 PM In another thread, fracking has been approved for Great Britain. Dangerous, as I noted early in this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Bobert Date: 26 Mar 13 - 07:58 PM Me thinks that some where down the road we are going to have a major "Opps" moment... Too bad that we just allow BIG OIL & GAS to run the show... This is suicide wrapped up in fancy wrapping paper with a big bow... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 26 Mar 13 - 08:01 PM Q... sorry, bud. I know you said it was bad shit. My "dig" at you was about Your Lord and Saviour letting PQ separate... with all that water to feed that BIG water project in The States. Anyone who can help La Belle separate will be OODLES RICH! Tarsands pale! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:47 PM Now if Western Canada could just get rid of those damn easterners..... (Sorry, gnu, I couldn't help it) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish Date: 27 Mar 13 - 08:01 PM gnu, Youtube knows who you are, where you're from, and what interests you've looked up on Youtube in the past. That's why they now put one or two videos they think you'll be interested in, to the side of the one you're actually viewing... It kinda freaks me out to be honest..Big Brother is everywhere..Youtube's now part of Google, so they'll also track you from there.... Halliburton are now claiming to have developed non-toxic fracking fluid... Yeah, right... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Bobert Date: 27 Mar 13 - 08:14 PM Yeah, Lizzie... The Gas & Oil people won't even disclose what chemicals they are pumping into the ground... They say its none of our business... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Mar 13 - 10:00 PM Wyoming requires analysis, but I don't know how good the statute is. Different companies use their own formulas, which they maintain are proprietary. The mixtures contain several compounds, which could mean that the reaction products could be worse than single chemicals, and are often difficult to analyse for. in any case, when the oil mixture is removed, it is doubtful that the pressure can be equalized even if substitute mixtures are inserted to restore the balance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: Donuel Date: 27 Mar 13 - 11:15 PM The complete list of chemicals that the Southern TIER New York fracking company uses are available for view. Yes the ground water is harmed. Yes the produced water is reintroduced at the surface to seep down even after evaporation. But the silent damage of the huge plumes of methane that is released from 10 thousand fracking wells will help speed up all all anticipated global warming estimates by double digit factors. Methane is over 10 times more powerful a green house gas than CO2. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms From: gnu Date: 12 Jun 13 - 03:15 PM I was reminded of the old quote about the pen and the sword by a good friend today and I replied... Gonna need a LOTTA ink! This pic was taken several days ago about 30km from me. http://www.flickr.com/photos/15565423@N05/9025962117/ |
