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BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)

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THE BATTLE OF THE BOYNE


Related threads:
Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!! (15)
Lyr Add: The 12th of July (riot in Montreal) (26)
Lyr Req: The Battle of the Boyne (3)


Stu 01 Oct 12 - 09:30 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 12 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,Martin 01 Oct 12 - 09:25 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,Martin 01 Oct 12 - 08:59 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 12 - 08:26 AM
GUEST,Martin 01 Oct 12 - 08:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 12 - 06:26 AM
GUEST,Martin 01 Oct 12 - 05:55 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 12 - 05:30 AM
GUEST,Martin 01 Oct 12 - 03:53 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 12 - 03:25 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Oct 12 - 03:03 AM
gnu 30 Sep 12 - 07:08 PM
Keith A of Hertford 30 Sep 12 - 04:40 PM
GUEST,Martin 30 Sep 12 - 03:40 PM
Keith A of Hertford 30 Sep 12 - 05:01 AM
kendall 13 Jul 12 - 07:49 PM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Jul 12 - 07:25 AM
framus 12 Jul 12 - 07:09 PM
Stu 12 Jul 12 - 09:44 AM
cujimmy 12 Jul 12 - 08:30 AM
cujimmy 12 Jul 12 - 07:42 AM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Jul 12 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,mg 15 Jul 11 - 12:51 PM
GUEST,keith 15 Jul 11 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,keith 15 Jul 11 - 08:12 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 11 - 07:58 AM
GUEST,keith 15 Jul 11 - 06:27 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 11 - 06:18 AM
GUEST,keith. 15 Jul 11 - 06:15 AM
GUEST,keith 15 Jul 11 - 05:21 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 11 - 05:10 AM
GUEST,keith. 15 Jul 11 - 03:26 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 11 - 02:17 AM
Sandy Mc Lean 14 Jul 11 - 09:34 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 11 - 03:50 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Jul 11 - 03:03 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 11 - 02:08 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 11 - 01:47 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Jul 11 - 01:03 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 11 - 11:39 AM
mg 14 Jul 11 - 11:23 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Jul 11 - 07:43 AM
GUEST,keith. 14 Jul 11 - 05:58 AM
MartinRyan 14 Jul 11 - 05:43 AM
GUEST,keith 14 Jul 11 - 05:39 AM
GUEST,keith 14 Jul 11 - 05:33 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Jul 11 - 05:26 AM
MartinRyan 14 Jul 11 - 05:24 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Stu
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 09:30 AM

This is crap compared to Issac's threads.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 09:30 AM

Thanks Martin, I wish you the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 09:25 AM

Let us both hope for peace in this province and that the dark days are over.
I wish you well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM

Of course it is.

Thirty-thousand people.
A few got out of line, and shame on them.
It is still a good news story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 08:59 AM

Keith, I find the playing of sectarian songs outside a place of worship, urinating against a catholic church by someone belonging to an organization openly opposed to the very existence of Catholics, and the attendance and welcoming of the leader of an openly racist party at this event nothing to celebrate. No I do not find this a good story, it is a very depressing one.

The Orange Order and it's followers refuse to meet a British government appointed body set up to oversee parades. How are they loyal to the British government of our Queen ?

Keith, do you accept the Orange Order is sectarian ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 08:26 AM

I deplore that too Martin.
Do you not think it a breakthrough that there was so little trouble?
Is it not a good news story?


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 08:22 AM

Keith, there is a story on the BBC today about a member of the Orange Order who walked over and urinated against a catholic church last Saturday. So with the Orange Order and the DUP openly welcoming Nick to the event and an Orange man urinating up a church, are you still willing to say it was a great event and state your support ?

Full story here on BBC


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19784052


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 06:26 AM

I deplore it Martin.
Please do not mention it on Mudcat, it attracts them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 05:55 AM

Keith, what do you think of the comment by a member of the Orange Order about the presence of your friend at the event, read it in the link provided. "DUP councillor and Orangeman, Christopher Stalford, said the "values the BNP represent are the antithesis of unionist values".


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 05:30 AM

No, I just thought it a good news story.
Good news about peace in NI is bad news for some folks I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:53 AM

I note it was Keith who opened this old thread (old wound)in the hope of a response from someone who supports Irish nationalism.

There were two Irish guys on this site a few years ago who Keith deliberately wind up on a daily basis,unfortunately,both left the forum because of him, sadly one has since died.

Then in 2009, Keith focused on patriotism,he invited some unsavory individuals here to support his cause, they took their time leaving and left a legacy we will never forget.

I looked this Ulster Covenant event up on the BBC, I see now why Keith sang their praises.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19777479


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:25 AM

Thirty thousand people out parading, and no problems.
If there is trouble blame the Unionists, if not praise the Nationalists.
No sectarianism here then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:03 AM

Not forgetting the events of four weeks earlier, of course
Jim Carroll

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/04/belfast-rioters-police-officers
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0903/breaking7.htmlhttp://www.gua


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: gnu
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 07:08 PM

Yes, it certainly does show tolerance on one side. Too bad is wasn't on both sides. That's the goal, innit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 04:40 PM

So the worst incident was that one band played a prohibited tune, but no-one got a single scratch.
That is still a good news story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 03:40 PM

Sorry Keith, it didn't. The Parades Commission are looking at an incident that occurred outside St, Matthews on the Newtownards Road. Bands played "The Sash" outside it instead of hymns.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19776951


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 05:01 AM

Yesterday, the biggest parade for decades passed off in Belfast without incident.
Tolerance and compromise on both sides.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 07:49 PM

Logic is religion's worst enemy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 07:25 AM

From Irish Times.

Virtually the sole focus for potential trouble during the Twelfth marches was on Ardoyne, as has been the case in recent years. But overall the Twelfth of July concluded peacefully and successfully with thousands of Orangemen, hundreds of bands, and thousands more supporters participating in 18 main parades throughout Northern Ireland.

Members of the Crumlin and Ardoyne Residents Association (CARA), which is supported by Sinn Féin, staged a peaceful protest along the Crumlin Road as the Orangemen paraded by.

The Ligoniel Orangemen were bussed from the field – where Orange marchers gathered after the outward part of the main Belfast parade – to begin their return route on the Woodvale Road a short distance from Ardoyne, so that they would meet the 4pm deadline.

The parade comprised just 15 Orangemen, who were flanked by PSNI officers in riot gear and carrying shields. Normally dozens of Orangemen would parade. It took just five minutes for the contentious element of the march to be concluded. When they passed by the flashpoint the lodge members were greeted by hundreds of cheering loyalists farther up the Crumlin Road.

The decision by the north Belfast lodges to observe the Parades Commission 4pm return deadline in turn put pressure on GARC, viewed as sympathetic to dissident republicans, to ensure that its demonstration scheduled for between 5.30-6.30 pm was peaceful.

The concern around this parade was exacerbated by the fact that loyalist residents from Twaddell Avenue and Woodvale Road were staging a protest against the GARC demonstration.

At around 6.20 pm about 700 nationalists marched on to the Crumlin Road. When they came alongside the loyalist protesters there was an exchange of missiles between the two groups.

For a brief period it appeared that a full scale riot would erupt but police managed to push the republican marchers into Brompton Park. Republican marshals also assisted in getting the republicans off the Crumlin Road.

About 20 nationalists continued to fire missiles at police lines from Brompton Park last night.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: framus
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 07:09 PM

Thanks, cujimmy, for the repudiation. Hope it gets the circulation it deserves. It's indeed fortunate that nobody cares any more about poor oul Lundy on 18th Dec. Haven't been there for years, but my entire family, from my parents back, are Fountain folk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 09:44 AM

Damn, I thought this was one of oul McKittery's threads. No such luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: cujimmy
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 08:30 AM

It seems that this is innacurate thank goodness http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/local/rumours-of-fountain-mockery-of-bloody-sunday-dead-untrue-1-4044234#.T_7AmZFBOrc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: cujimmy
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 07:42 AM

How vile is this https://twitter.com/#!/search/bloody%20sunday/slideshow/photos?url=https%3A%2F%2Fp.twimg.com%2FAxeHZ4wCEAA8r-9.jpg a lot of good things have happened in recent years and recently The Queen was was given a great welcome wherever she went while visiting Ireland, representatives from the Orange Order spoke in the Irish parliament, Martin McGuinness met the Queen and people have tried to make the parades more like the ST Paddy day celebrations than super macist parades. But there is still a lot of ignorance, intransigence and intolerence to overcome.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 06:45 AM

So far so good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 12:51 PM

I think I saw a picture on you tube of a Mariachi band dressed in Orange..that is what they need..not restrictions but more people enjoying themselves and turning it into a more generic, family holiday with orange balloons and orange umbrellas etc. The origins will quickly fade away (or maybe not since we are talking about Ireland) when groups of Poles, Nigerians, Lithuanians put on their orange garb and join them in a fun day which most of what I have seen is a bunch of older men in bowler hats marching with their grandsons. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 09:58 AM

Mark Eastern on the BBC site yesterday.

So should we be depressed about the annual ritual rioting in Ardoyne? Or heartened that the number of police officers injured was fewer than last year, and the disorder shorter in duration?

The police say 16 officers were hurt on Tuesday, compared to 55 in 2010. A republican source told me the rioting "wasn't a patch on last year".

In contrast to last year, nationalists did not block the Crumlin Road and the Orange parade itself passed by without trouble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 08:12 AM

I do stand by my words.
I am telling you that I did not and do not blame the children.

Also, it would be wrong and stupid for anyone to believe that nonsense about Pakistanis.
I certainly have never said such a ludicrous thing and never would, so can we can just discuss the parades and not me?


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 07:58 AM

Keith
If you can't stand by your own words, please piss off
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 06:27 AM

Jim,
"you used the children to prove that the trouble was all over and it was only they who were rioting "

Er, it never was only they who were rioting.
That is just nonsense.
I am telling you that I did not and do not blame the children, so we can move on.

Likewise the Pakistani nonsense.
It would be wrong and stupid for anyone to believe that.
I certainly do not, so we can move on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 06:18 AM

"No-one has ever said that "the riots were the fault of children."
Yes you did - you used the children to prove that the trouble was all over and it was only they who were rioting - you can't have it both ways.
Your "cultural implant" statement is long established and proven as a lie - you even pass the responsibility on to others claiming you were only reporting it.
Why do you bother with these debates - an ego trip maybe?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,keith.
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 06:15 AM

I reopened this thread with good news.
Less trouble around the 12th this year.

As a result I find myself the victim of personal accusations.

Perhaps Jim, we misunderstood each other.
You thought I had blamed children.
I am making it clear now that I did not and do not, so that is cleared up.

Likewise the Pakistani accusation.
I did not and do not believe such a ludicrous thing.

Now, would you care to discuss issues related to the parades, and not my imagined beliefs?


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 05:21 AM

The rioters did turn out to include large numbers of children.

No-one has ever said that "the riots were the fault of children."
You made that up hoping to discredit me.

Likewise your outrageous lie that I believe, "Pakistani Muslims were all culturally implanted with a tendency to paedophilia "

You kept telling that grotesque lie in a previous thread.
I even listed my every use of words beginning "paed" to prove you were lying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 05:10 AM

You claimed that "The "rioters" in Belfast turned out to be bored school children and a few activists bussed in to create trouble" YOUR OWN WORDS ; in the context of your claim that the trouble on these marches was a thing of the past. Nothing unequivocal about that - the chidren were the rioters, according to your own words.
Now you are claiming to be misrepresented just as you did when you said you believed that Pakistani Muslims were all culturally implanted with a tendency to paedophelia - you lied then when you were confronted with your own words, you are lying now.
If you can't stand by your own postings why do you take part in these discussions?
"Then look at the pictures"
You are totally and deliberately ignoring the four days of serious rioting that took place as a run-up to the marches, a direct consequence of the nature of these sectarian "days out" (as you described them).
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,keith.
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 03:26 AM

Jim, this was your statement that I described as a lie.
"Your claim that last years riots were the fault of children"

I never did claim such a ludicrous thing.
Certainly many of the rioters were kids last year and this.
IT agreed.
Your statement was a lie told to discredit me.

Sandy,
Look at some of the hundred plus pictures in the Belfast Telegraph link.
Imagine yourself in jackboots telling all those happy families to go home at once.
Remember banning or just re-routing one parade led to years of violent conflict.
Why not just let them enjoy their one day of fun?

Then look at the pictures and ask why it makes people like Jim so angry.
It can not be what they are doing.
Just families having fun.
It is because of who they are, not what they do, that makes Jim lash out so irrationally.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 02:17 AM

"You made that up."
And there you have the perfect reason why it is a total waste of time spending any time on what you have to say.
You describe the rioters as children, your own statement is placed before you - "The "rioters" in Belfast turned out to be bored school children and a few activists bussed in to create trouble" and you describe it as a lie.
You seem to be incapable of stringing two sentences togather without one of them being a lie, or a distortion, or a claim to have been said by somebody else.
Once again - you said it, it was your statement, it was youyr misrepresentation.
I suggest you take your lies, your racism, your sectarian marches and your union flag and shove them where they will do the least damege.
Juimn Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 09:34 PM

For centuries these stupid marches have set back any hope of building goodwill. King Jimmy and King Billy are both dead and buried and long may both the bastards moulder. 1690 was 321 years ago for Gods sake! Ban the marches and find a consensus for unifying this beautiful island!


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 03:50 PM

It was true that many of the rioters were children, but they were not to blame for it, and nor did I blame them.
You made that up.

Did you enjoy the "bloodfest" pictures?
A lot of children in the parades, but not instigated by them do you think?
Lots of ice cream too, but no blood.

You are not capable of rational expression on this subject, are you Jim?


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 03:03 PM

"The "rioters" in Belfast turned out to be bored school children and a few activists bussed in to create trouble."
Yours I believe
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 02:08 PM

Some nice pictures of the "thuggish bloodfest" here.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/twelfth/in-pictures-and-video-the-twelfth-parades-2010-14873706.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 01:47 PM

Jim,
"the descriptions you have offered for these thuggish marches included family days out and something like annual outings"

That was in The Irish Times yesterday Jim.
Do you challenge their account?

This contains two lies Jim, "Your claim that last years riots were the fault of children was pretty well as despicable as your suggestion that all British Pakistanis were cultural perverts."

I did not say any riot was the fault of any children, and never suggested "all British Pakistanis were cultural perverts"

Why lie about me Jim?

And your BBC "quote."
You made it up Jim.

We are just discussing the events of the day.
Why do you have to be like this Jim?


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 01:03 PM

"I am not "an apologist""
Yes you are; the descriptions you have offered for these thuggish marches included family days out and something like annual outings - can't be bothered looking it up, but will do if you persist in refusing to take responsibility for your suggestion.
Your claim that last years riots were the fault of children was pretty well as despicable as your suggestion that all British Pakistanis were cultural perverts.
I have no intention of following your twisted justification of these bloodfests and your dishonest style of debate - you've more than proved that there really is no point.
We really do have nothing to say to each other.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 11:39 AM

I am not "an apologist" for any of them.
The number of children rioting was widely reported, and clear in the pictures.
It is not me trying to "pin the blame on children."

I can not find your BBC "quote" Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: mg
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 11:23 AM

The thugs should have an infinite number of video cameras trained on them from every angle so at least you can identifiy them after. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 07:43 AM

"Jim, the IT journalists were there and saw what they saw."
The 12th disturbances were reported to have been caused by Nationalists; the pre-march riots were by UVF members. Attempting to pin the responsibilty on one side or the other puts whoever does so in that particular camp.
The disturbances are a direct result of the aggressive nature of the marches.
Last year, when permission was refused to march in certain areas, the organisers made a point of ending the official proceedings and marching back through flashpoint areas, thus provoking violence.
It has always been recognised that the vast majority of the marches are peaceful and harmless, but as the Sinn Fein politician, Gerry Kelly pointed our, it is the organisers of the larger ones in Belfast and Derry that need to cop on to themselves - until they do there will be continuing violence.
All of which makes an utter farce of your statement that there was;
"Even less trouble this year than last, thank goodness."
I suggest you read your own 'unnapproachable expert' from the BBC quote.
The violence of these marches is again escalating, provoked by both sides, and the disturbances throughout the rest of the year is again on the rise.
Acting as an apologist for either side only adds fuel to the flames.
And please don't attempt (again) to pin the blame on children, as you did last time; children certainly become involved but it an adult problem (if you can call the cretins who create the conditions, or act as apologists for these religious war-dances "adults") and blaming it on children is spineless and irresponsible.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,keith.
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 05:58 AM

Agreed likewise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 05:43 AM

Jim
a plague on both their ****** houses.

Agreed!

Regards


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 05:39 AM

Jim, The Irish Times piece stands against your claim, "the fact that the sectarian and aggressive nature of the larger marches"

From BBC NI news site.

Chief Insp Burrows said the police would be using video footage to identify those involved in the trouble.

"The parade went very well, the return parade went very well. The violence that we saw was less than we saw in Belfast, less than we have seen in years gone by but it is still unacceptable that people are throwing petrol bombs at police, damaging their own communities and hijacking vehicles.

"I'm pleased that we made 12 arrests, I'm pleased that we got community co-operation and we have plenty of CCTV evidence

Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness said the rioters should think of the consequences of their actions.

Mr Robinson said: "As a government we are working together to ensure that Northern Ireland prospers and grows in strength.

"It is saddening to see Ulster in the international news for all the wrong reasons.

"Those involved in Tuesday night's violence and rioting provide nothing to society. Those manipulating the violence will not win."

Mr McGuinness said: "I visited Ardoyne on Monday and met with local people, community and church leaders.

"They made it very clear to me that they did not want to see any violence in their community over the Twelfth parade.

"It is disappointing that a small number of people chose to ignore their demand and instead went about attacking the police and damaging the local community."

Police have said children as young as 10 were involved in rioting in Londonderry on Tuesday night.

Twelve people, including one woman, were arrested after petrol bombs and bricks were thrown at police.

Trouble broke out in the Bogside and Fahan Street areas, in Gobnascale and Ardmore in the Waterside, and in Strabane and Castlederg.

A 14-year old was among those arrested on suspicion of riotous behaviour.

A crate of petrol bombs was recovered in Fahan Street.

Chief Inspector, Jon Burrows, said children were involved in the rioting.

"I saw some very, very young children in the Bogside throwing stones at police. Children under 10," he said.

"That was running towards midnight. Still children under 10 years of age throwing stones at police and I have to say some adults were present and not intervening. That's very, very sad."


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 05:33 AM

Yes it was Martin, and was said to be instigated by Loyalist paramiltaries.
Does anyone understanand why they did it?

Jim, the IT journalists were there and saw what they saw.
From today's IT.

"PSNI Assistant Chief Constable Alastair Finlay said most parts of Northern Ireland were peaceful over the Twelfth.

"Yet for these few streets we get headlines of violence, of people injured, of communities and relationships being broken and infrastructure and property damaged," he said.

About 200 rioters were involved in the trouble at Ardoyne. Mr Finlay described them as "mindless thugs" and said there was no evidence this disorder was orchestrated."

"While local nationalists continue to oppose the Orange Order parading past the Ardoyne shops on the Crumlin Road, the DUP MP for North Belfast Nigel Dodds said they must realise that the road was a "shared space and not just a nationalist road".

Local Sinn Féin Assembly member Gerry Kelly said the chief reason tensions were raised in the area each summer was entirely down to the continuing failure of the Orange Order to sit down and enter dialogue with its neighbours.

"There was no actual reason for the riot," local SDLP MLA Alban Maginness said, "beyond the fact that a small number of people wanted a riot, planned a riot and got a riot." "


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 05:26 AM

Hi Martin;
"supporters of dissident IRA factions, rather than Loyalist marchers."
Doesn't matter which side they come from; the earlier riots were UVF instigated - a plague on both their ****** houses.
But doesn't alter the fact that the sectarian and aggressive nature of the larger marches provide the flashpoint and, I believe are designed to do so.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Have a Glorious Twelfth! (Drumcree Parade)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 05:24 AM

And Yes - lest there be any doubt - the pre-Twelfth Loyalist rioting was outrageous.

Regards


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