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Little Yellow Roses

In Mudcat MIDIs:
Little Yellow Roses (Full) [unknown]
Little Yellow Roses (melody) [unknown]


mikesamwild 16 Jul 10 - 11:13 AM
mikesamwild 16 Jul 10 - 11:18 AM
GeoffLawes 16 Jul 10 - 11:21 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 16 Jul 10 - 11:44 AM
mikesamwild 16 Jul 10 - 12:29 PM
GeoffLawes 16 Jul 10 - 08:04 PM
GeoffLawes 19 Jul 10 - 11:33 AM
mikesamwild 23 Jul 10 - 09:08 AM
mikesamwild 23 Jul 10 - 09:11 AM
mikesamwild 24 Jul 10 - 05:58 AM
GUEST,leeneia 24 Jul 10 - 11:13 AM
mikesamwild 25 Jul 10 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,leeneia 25 Jul 10 - 11:35 PM
Joe Offer 26 Jul 10 - 04:49 AM
GUEST,leeneia 26 Jul 10 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,leeneia 26 Jul 10 - 12:18 PM
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Subject: Little Yellow Roses
From: mikesamwild
Date: 16 Jul 10 - 11:13 AM

Following discussions on Jon Boden's Folk Song a Day and threads on Mudcat songs about the Spanish Civil War I did a bit of poking about. Here's Adam Faith's jaunty waltz time 1962 version arranged by John Barry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX0-QP8We8c

Jackie DeShannon did a version, similar tune, with different words. !963 single and on LP In the Wind 1965.Trevor Peacock is credited with her words and music. the tune has echoes of Scarborough Fair

There is a suggestion that the original poem was written by J Hooker Hamersley a New York lawyer, investor and poet (died 1901) If so it's not from a translation of a Spanish Civil War song by a doomed Republican soldier. . He was a very rich US Republican who was a friend of Vanderbilt,JP Morgan etc! He wrote a book Seven Voices in 1898

The song seems to have got into Jon boden and Fay Hield's repertoire via the Forest Camps songbook ( I'd guess via Adam Faith's version)

There is a comment on another website that a Sheila Lewis set the poem to music.

I'not having much luck with Google.

As Fay's album will soon be out it might be nice to find out some more about this moving song.


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: mikesamwild
Date: 16 Jul 10 - 11:18 AM

Here's J DeS .Jhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv53_f8XNs
Just checked out Dolly Parton's Yellow Roses. Not at all related.


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 16 Jul 10 - 11:21 AM

Hi Mike, I was responding to your post on the Spanish Civil Songs site while you were posting here. Here is a clickable link to Adam Faith.
ADAM FAITH'S YELLOW ROSES

Geoff


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 10 - 11:44 AM

Blimey..

Chim chimeny

Which of these songs was composed first?


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: mikesamwild
Date: 16 Jul 10 - 12:29 PM

Trevor Peacock is the charater actor who is in Vicar of Dibley. He wrote Mrs Brown You've got a Lovely Daughter! He was very prolific with words and lyrics in the 50-60 period

maybe all that acoustic guitar and catanette stuff got the song linked to Spain.

I wonder if the original poem was by Hamersley it may have been about the American Civil War.

Anybody know Mr Peacock to ask him? ( not the one in Are You Being Served)


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 16 Jul 10 - 08:04 PM

I have been given the email address of the theatrical agents for Trevor Peacock and have sent them a message asking them to pass on my request that Trevor Peacock help us to sort out the provenance of the song(s). I will let you know if anything comes of this Mike.


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 11:33 AM

Mikesamwild passed on the suggestion culled from Jon Boden's Folksong A Day site that the origin of the song Yellow Roses was in a competition winning poem published prior to the Spanish Civil War.I contacted the person who suggested this and she said she got this idea from a book in the Glasgow reference library which refered to a poem called Yellow Roses by J. Hooker Hamersley which had won a competition although no words to the poem were given. I tried to contact Glasgow reference library unsuccesfully but in the process was referred to the Ask a Librarian Service.

The ASK A LIBRARIAN web service found me the following link to the volume of poems called Seven Voices by J. Hooker Hamersley, published in 1898 and published now on the web by Google Books. On page 3 is a poem called Yellow Roses but its words bear no relationship to the lyrics of the song we are discussing in either of its two recorded versions. If you want to see for yourself click the link and then click the PRINT option on the left side of the page and then the pdf download option which appears.
HAMERSLEY'S Yellow Roses

The same informant gave me the link to Trevor Peacock's agent and I am still awaiting a response to my enquiry in that direction.


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: mikesamwild
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 09:08 AM

Thanks for the detective work Geoff. That seems to leave Mr Peacock as a key contact.


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: mikesamwild
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 09:11 AM

Geoff that link doesn't seem to work for me, can you let me know what the words are?


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: mikesamwild
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 05:58 AM

I went on Google Books and found a n extract in Werner's anthogyof Readings and Recitations no15, 1896. J Hooker hamersley wrote a poem Yellow Roses.

'Of rich yellow roses a cluster he sent in the long ago --- in the long ago. A wee dainty note in its heart lay hid ,'mong the buds concealed like a fairy sprite ..... etc (yukky)

Not the song we are investigating but that shows it wasn't an American Civil War song.


More a 'generic' anti war song , maybe by T Peacock?


In the 60s there were quite a few like Universal Soldier by Buffy St Marie / Donovan, Phil Ochs, Dylan , Where have all the flowers gone and so on.


There is still no connection with a Spanish poem, translated and then set to music.


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 11:13 AM

I liked the tune of this so much I made a MIDI of it. I'll see if Joe can post it.

It sounds eastern European to me, or maybe Rom. I suspect that twiddly bit in the intro was a little descant such as you hear in old dance tunes. So I used it that way.

Click to play (melody)


Click to play (full)


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: mikesamwild
Date: 25 Jul 10 - 01:38 PM

The tune is the same as the Adam Faith and Jackie DeShannon songs of the 60s ( go on YouTube ). John Barry orchestrated the Adam Faith one. Sounds like Chim Chimenee type song. Th estern Europen sound may just be the Tin Pan Alley feel that came from Jewish songwriters from the Yiddish traditions here and in the States.


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Jul 10 - 11:35 PM

There's a slight delay in the MIDI. Watch this spot.

Click to play (melody)


Click to play (full)


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 04:49 AM

MIDI files posted for "Little Yellow Roses" - see links above. Thanks, Leeneia.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 11:27 AM

You're welcome, Joe.

Now anybody who wants to learn the tune can click on the melody and hear it in the key of Dm, which is derived from F. This means that B's are flat and C's become C#. Chords are Dm, Gm and A. (The original was in three flats, not my favorite territory.)

Most of this tune is in the harmonic minor, a very old form. (We call it the 'belly-dance minor.") In the middle it throws in one B-natural note. You could argue that this little passage is in a different scale, but why bother? It's just a little embellishment.

There are a lot of tunes that use this sound. I believe all these would qualify:

Chim chim in ee
My Favorite things
Black Nag - 17th C.
God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen - 16th C
O Come O Come Emmanuel - ancient chant?
and many more

It makes a beautiful piano piece. And I find that if I sing 'la-la-la' in my head, it helps me forget the words.

Thanks for starting this thread, mikesamwild.


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Subject: RE: Little Yellow Roses
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 12:18 PM

Oops! That passage with the B natural in it involves more than I thought. In the melody, measures 22 to 28 change all the A's to A minor.

Silly me!


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