BS: offensive words

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 07:13 PM

Any Australians reading this thread? I'm really curious about the usage of "murkies" - or, for that matter, "creamies" as heard in the film "Australia" to describe mixed-race persons.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 07:25 PM

Who, how, what, which, when, or why is Conrad Bladey, that that expression should be offensive?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 07:29 PM

he is member "#1 Peasant", who sort of polarizes the readers....97% against, 2% unsure, and 1% .."who?"

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 08:31 PM

Beer, don't really what "gas fracking" is, just saw it in this thread heading: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=130662&messages=38 and thought it sounded like something nasty.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 08:43 PM

Marmite- the most offensive word?


Some years back I went to a show at the R. Hawaiian in Waikiki, performers the Brothers Cazimero. They overheard an Australian guest call them 'brownies'. Mayhem was avoided, but it affected their entire concert.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Beer
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 10:46 PM

Go ya Bobad.
thanks.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Beer
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 10:59 PM

Got ya Bobad.
Sorry.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Bert
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 02:03 AM

here's another thread

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 04:55 AM

I'm Scottish and I dont find being called a "jock" at all offensive.

Everyone has become over sensitive....just another symptom of our mad addiction to "liberalism".

Hamish Henderson in his great song "The banks o' Sicily" wrote, "nae JOCKS will mourn the kyles o' ye", meaning that none of the Scots soldiers would be sorry to leave the place.

In the parlance of the forces "Jock" was a term of affection for a comrade.

I'm in favour of free speech.....if I offend someone, I'm big enough to take the consequences, without the thought police telling me what I can or cannot say.
A word can mean a hundred different things depending on how it is said.....who can police that?

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 05:32 AM

A Welshman of my acquaintance once took great exception to "Boyo"; but forgave me when I assured him I meant no offence, but had simply picked it up from Max Boyce, himself a professional Welsh comedian, from whom I had got the idea that the Welsh themselves quite liked and welcomed it.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 08:58 AM

There are certain words that have only one meaning and we know which ones I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 11:19 AM

Bobad, just in case you haven't been enlightened since your post,
"gas fracking" is a procedure whereby certain subterranean rock formations are fractured ("fracking") by explosives in order to give up the natural gas contained therein.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 11:51 AM

"Call me a dinosaur if you wish but I miss the days when gentlemen refrained from using course language in the company of women. We have lost something valuable." Kendall

I too miss those days and when I got to wondering why and when things changed, I decided it was when women started using the same language.

And it *is* a matter of age- a few weeks ago I was chatting at a bus stop with a man who had grey hair about his temples when another man - 40ish- came by. They knew each other and at one point the younger man used a certain word, and I heard the older man say, Sssh. There's a lady present.

Refreshing, really.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 11:56 AM

akenaton: I guess it depends on how the word is used. Some people use it
as an insult, and others don't.

But, across the pond, "jock" has a second meaning. It's used to describe an athlete, and some might find it to be insulting, others don't.

An example of how some people like it:
I had a teacher who was an athlete, and he would proudly say "I'm a jock" all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 12:02 PM

Well two have been mentioned here Kendal, "nigger" and "gay".

I never use "gay" as it was adopted by homosexual activists for political reasons....unfortunately this also means that the traditional meaning can now rarely be used.

I never use "nigger", but have it on very good authority that people of African extraction commonly use the term to one another in a friendly manner......so I suppose there are at least two meanings, depending on how the words are delivered and who is using them.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 12:14 PM

"Jock", BTW, also refers to a male athletic supporter - that is, a cup with elastic straps...similar in appearance to thong underwear. This may be entirely US/North American usage.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 12:27 PM

"Jock" ? & then there's the Scots:

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 12:33 PM

Ak, the two worst ones are, F and C. No two meanings for either.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 12:33 PM

Ooops. that should have been

CLICK HERE

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 03:28 AM

The definition of a word, is 'a sound or a group of sounds, audibly spoken, that relate an idea'.....NO words do I find 'offensive', but the applications of some words I find stupid...such as what is considered 'politically correct'....get off it...especially if you fancy yourself as a open-minded thinker, and/or writer!!!!


...'and that's all I have to say about that!'...Forrest Gump

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 06:47 AM

I'm as open minded as anyone I know, still, I see no good reason to make others uncomfortable. The basic meaning of manners is just that; the art of making others comfortable.
Any smart mouth kid can mouth dirty words or write them (badly) on a sidewalk, but one's vocabulary should expand beyond fuck as they grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: RangerSteve
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 07:11 AM

A few years back I received a memo at work that stated that, when writing reports, I should avoid phrases like "a blind man", "a bald man", "an Irish woman".... and instead say" a man who is blind", etc. In the first version, the man's blindness is more important than his humanity. I get their point, but it could lead to some clumsy phrasing, especially in folk music: Lemon Jefferson Who Is Blind, The Clay Ramblers Who Are Red, The City Ramblers Who Are New and Lost. And who could forget Jimmy Dean's big hit - John Who is Big and Bad. Or Little Richards "Sally Who is Long and Tall.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Old Vermin
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 09:03 AM

Hmmm. Fell off a windsurfer at Sunsail, Antigua. Trapped ankle. Painful. Twisted to get head above water. Said 'bugger' forcefully.

At tea, a lady from Hawaii approached me and said 'You must be English. I've only ever heard "bugger" said by Hugh Grant.' She seemed amused by the quaintness.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 09:41 AM

...if I offend someone, I'm big enough to take the consequences

But you don't take the consequences, if those consequences are limited to them feeling hurt or humiliated or insulted. That's a bit like saying "If I tread on someone, I'm big enough to take the consequences."

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,Patsy Warren
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 11:12 AM

One expression is really offensive to me and one that was so often used in the playground when I was at school was calling someone wearing glasses 'four eyes.' It was so hurtful to children or anyone vulnerable. Hopefully now schools address bullying like that and children can wear glasses to correct their sight properly without worrying about having to hide them like I did.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 12:00 PM

Patsy, one thing about the childhood "four eyes" harassment:

There's nothing in the actual words that's insulting or offensive, seems to me. What's upsetting to a target glasses-wearing child is the bully's attitude, the utterance of those two words as if they were an insult.   By implication, the kid gets the message, "You're trash, you're worthless, you're ugly," none of which is actually in the meaning of the words. It's the use of the words in that way that's hurtful.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 12:01 PM

Kendall: "I'm as open minded as anyone I know, still, I see no good reason to make others uncomfortable. The basic meaning of manners is just that; the art of making others comfortable."

You mean Etiquette...not manners.

Some people get 'uncomfortable' just way too easy. Some people find THINKING, past the 'POLITICALLY CORRECT' verbiage, painful. Some people have an acquired low threshold of tolerance, due to 'politically correct' nonsensical pandering. When I hear people use many of those terms, or get offended if another doesn't use those terms, I understand what they mean, and what they are.......and I also understand that they are too big of pussies, too block an exchange of honest ideas, without using a device to be less than honest..or accurate!!

...AND ITS NOT A MATTER OF MANNERS, EITHER..... but rather etiquette. Etiquette, is learned, from the outside....manners come from within!

You might dance around, trying to be 'diplomatic'...and NEVER speak your heart or mind......in such cases, why open your mouth at all?...except to try to impress others that you can be so 'PC'..in which case, I'd rather they just shut the fuck up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 12:03 PM

For some reason, it wasn't posting correctly:

Kendall: "I'm as open minded as anyone I know, still, I see no good reason to make others uncomfortable. The basic meaning of manners is just that; the art of making others comfortable."

You mean Etiquette...not manners.

Some people get 'uncomfortable' just way too easy. Some people find THINKING, past the 'POLITICALLY CORRECT' verbiage, painful. Some people have an acquired low threshold of tolerance, due to 'politically correct' nonsensical pandering. When I hear people use many of those terms, or get offended if another doesn't use those terms, I understand what they mean, and what they are.......and I also understand that they are too big of pussies, too block an exchange of honest ideas, without using a device to be less than honest..or accurate!!

...AND ITS NOT A MATTER OF MANNERS, EITHER..... but rather etiquette. Etiquette, is learned, from the outside....manners come from within!

You might dance around, trying to be 'diplomatic'...and NEVER speak your heart or mind......in such cases, why open your mouth at all?...except to try to impress others that you can be so 'PC'..in which case, I'd rather they just shut the fuck up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 01:02 PM

Kendall's definition of (good) manners as behaving in a way that help others to be comfortable, is as good as you can have. "Etiquette" all too often is more about making people uncomfortable, because they don't know the rules.

The other way of doing that is by bad manners, and my impression from that post by "GUEST from Sanity" is that that may be his, (or conceivably) her, preferred way of doing that.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 01:35 PM

McGrath, You may agree or disagree, what I posted...but at least you're THINKING about it, Eh?...Isn't that the point? Isn't that the point of exchanging ideas???

Here, I'll run it by you again:

Etiquette, is more cerebral, and is taught and learned to qualify, and therefore exclude people, where manners come from the heart to include people, as 'Do unto others as you' would have them do unto you'.

If you don't, or can't understand the difference, its okay...don't worry about it.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 04:51 PM

I know what I meant and I said what I meant. Furthermore, I stand by it.Politically correct is a phrase that has been used like "Liberal", twisting the meaning to demean other people's mind set.
If you want to use the words nigger, cunt, fuck, do so, but not in the company of my wife or daughters.

That kind of gutter language will get you arrested in some places.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 05:52 PM

"Etiquette means behaving yourself a little better than is absolutely essential." Will Cuppy


"Etiquette tip: More people will get out of your way if you say "I'm gonna puke!" than if you say "Excuse me"." Unknown source

"The devil is and always has been a gentleman." Diane LaVey

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 06:53 PM

"manners come from the heart to include people, as 'Do unto others as you' would have them do unto you'." (GfS)

"The basic meaning of manners is just that; the art of making others comfortable." (GfS)

Clearly GfS sees more diffeence betyween those ways of summarising "good manners" than I do, since he (or she) says the latter isn't about manners but about etiquette.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 07:01 PM

Amended:

"manners come from the heart to include people, as 'Do unto others as you' would have them do unto you'." (GfS)

"The basic meaning of manners is just that; the art of making others comfortable." (kendall)

Clearly GfS sees more diffeence betyween those ways of summarising "good manners" than I do, since he (or she) says the latter isn't about manners but about etiquette.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 07:15 PM

Manners is making others comfortable; etiquette is knowing which fork, spoon, knife to use and where to place your napkin.
Which is more important?

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 08:02 PM

It seems to me that the term "politically correct" is frequently used as a way of re-categorising ways of using language which are basically about good manners or courtesy, and labelling them as a variety of etiquette.

There are occasions when there can be some validity in that - people who try to operate a mechanical and arbitrary rule book as part of some exercise in organisational politics. But those are the distortions and exceptions. Mostly when people brandish the term "political correctness" (overwhelmingly in order to denounce it) what they are in fact attacking is the exercise of good manners in language.

Here's a song about all this I once wrote and posted on the Mudcat, and called "Poison in Jest":

Now there's a funny way of talking called "Politically Correct" -
Silly fools who think that words have some kind of effect.
Now that's surely not a notion that's entitled to respect -
So I'd like to poke a little fun at this strange dialect.
For when I meet some oddity I like to speak direct.
No, I never mess around with being "Politically Correct".
So I speak to them direct, that's what they must expect -
No I never mess around with being "Politically Correct."

So I say "Good Morning, Mr Nigger!",
or "How goes it, you old Yid?"
The answers that I get, I find surprising.
And I like seeing tins marked "Cripples",
or "For Little Spastic Kids" - I think euphemisims are so patronising!
So I speak to them direct, that's what they must expect
No I never mess around with being "Politically Correct."

So, perhaps you are a Poofter, or a Gippo with a van,
or perhaps you are a Mongol or a Moron -
or perhaps you come from Essex, Essex Girl or Essex Man,
and perhaps your name is Tracy, Wayne or Sharon
Well, I'll speak to you direct, that's what you must expect -
No I never mess around with being "Politically Correct."

If I call you what I choose, what's that got to do with you?
It's not my problem if the words appall you.
It's how I always speak when I'm talking to a freak,
and it doesn't really matter what I call you.
Yes, I'll speak to you direct, that's what you must expect -
No I never mess around with being "Politically Correct."

And if anybody says that I offends,
why then I just assume an
injured look - my poor little friends,
you must have lost your sense of humour.
And a sense of fun, when all is done,
it never should desert you.
And sticks and stones can break your bones -
but words can really hurt you.

So, I'll speak to you direct, that's what you must expect -
For I never mess around with being "Politically Correct."

Now some might call it courtesy,
or politeness or respect -
But I prefer to call it "being Politically Correct".

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 01:31 AM

The opposite of being 'politically correct' does not mean,that one would, could or should, be crude or coarse, by any means, but let's not go overboard in being dishonest about what you say!...for the sake of being 'PC'.

Shit, to some the truth is offensive enough!!!!..as any politically minded parrot!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 04:29 AM

...manners come from within!...

Hmmm, I think that pretty much sums up our Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 06:07 AM

McGrath, that is beautiful! I wish I'd said it.
Guest, now that I can agree with.Good point.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 10:39 AM

"Politically Correct" is a label that causes offense, and makes for disagreement. Not a term to use,in other words.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 11:10 AM

McGrath: ""Politically Correct" is a label that causes offense, and makes for disagreement. Not a term to use,in other words."

'Politically correct', is just that POLITICALLY. I'd prefer to be honest, than labeled 'politically' correct. 'Politics' by its very nature, is dishonest....and dishonesty is a certain trait of bad manners!!!


...not that anyone cares these days...its more en vogue to be dishonest, using 'non-offensive' language!!!!..it makes for 'politically correct' deception!

Here's winkin' at ya!...honestly!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 11:26 AM

Gfs, do you consider it "dishonest" to refer to people in terms you know they are comfortable with, in place of terms you've been used to, or just have an inclination to use?

I generally go by my middle name, simply because my first name is unusual and tends to be confusing and hard for people to remember correctly. Awhile back, an older man in management discovered my first name in the records, approached me with a smarmy smile, and addressed me with a slowly drawled rendition of it. I told him, I believe very politely, that I preferred use of my middle name. The "smile" got nastier, and the use of my first name got more emphatic. I took a measure of comfort in the fact that he treated almost everyone like shit, not just me.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 01:48 PM

Frogprince: "Gfs, do you consider it "dishonest" to refer to people in terms you know they are comfortable with, in place of terms you've been used to, or just have an inclination to use?"

Jeez, who would name their child 'Frogprince'??...just kidding..

Does it make you comfortable that George W. Bush uses the 'comfortably, politically correct' phrase of 'compassionate conservative'???..or Hillary Clinton, getting up and whimpering catch phrases like 'Its for the children'??. Neither of these deceptive clowns give a flying fuck about 'compassion' for the American public, or YOUR children!!!!(if you have any)....but its 'politically correct' to use those phrases, and patently DISHONEST!

A phrase like 'mentally challenged' might sound great, but gives the listener no clue as to what the problem is. It could range from 'slow' (as in 'retarded') to any number of things, even down to just plain stupid, because the user of the phrase might not agree with the person, to whom he is referring!

How about 'Gay'..as contrast to homosexual..in lieu of 'reproductively challenged'???
....or 'person', as in Congressperson, instead of Congressman, as in mankind.

Or seeing 'n****r', when you know damn well, that the image that conjures up in the reader's mind is exactly the same thing...and there are other words to use, without being insulting, instead of making a point of 'showing' that you're going to hop-scotch' around, the verbiage, when you MEAN the same thing! It shows a weakness of character, which tends to discredit the user. I'd rather make my point CLEAR, than to make the point, that I think as bigoted the next guy, so I'd use 'PC' language, but just don't have the guts to express what I really think. In doing so, I might even spare the listener the insult and embarrassment of thinking along the lines of shallow judgments, and being small minded.....as those who actually think that way!! Jeez, Mark Twain would roll over in his grave!

Now I'm NOT advocating going out of your way to use offensive language, but for me, personally, I'd rather be direct, and forthright, even if I've risked 'putting off' the listener, or reader,....hoping is/her INTELLIGENCE coupled with conscientiousness will enlighten them, as to know, that my intentions were not to insult their intelligence, or feelings. Though, I've been known to dish out insults, that is usually reserved for those who shown complete disregard, for insulting their own intelligence, as trying to convince me, that I should join in the fun!!!

The bruises of a friend are better than the mirth of an enemy.

"Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful"--King Solomon

Respectfully with Regards,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 01:58 PM

The only people who seem to use the term "politically correct" in my recent experience are generally slagging off the concept that it is better not to use language that insults or puts down others.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 07:25 PM

Guest, old Maine saying: Tact is only noticed when it's missing.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 08:29 PM

Hey, knock yourself out. I'd rather have an intelligent conversation with wit, and insights, than listen to two politically correct tacticians!.... however, I myself do employ tact...but the 'PC' thing is absolutely nauseating!

There are folks on here, that probably have no idea, how polite I've been...by what I've held back in saying!

...then again, composing music in the studio has far greater reward, than burrowing my way through people's politically minded blockages!

Its not a matter of taste, but perception deficit disorder!-GfS

Anyway, have a great evening!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: kendall
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 01:28 PM

If you mean not using the "F" word or the "C" word in public is a problem to you and is considered PC, then one of us has a problem.

You can say pretty much whatever you choose here except personal attacks.They are apt to be deleted, and most of us wouldn't have it any other way.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: mauvepink
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 02:07 PM

There are certainly lines that can be drawn around the use of foul language in my opinion. You can read every chapter in all of Jane Austen's novels and not come across one swear word. One could never argue that points have not been made in her writings that are downright insults delivered with manners and that kind of 'intelligent' argument/slight/insult has its appeals. But, as in Jane Austen's novels, were such language used and invoked these days there would be many that would not have a clue they were being insulted.

The use of swear words and foul language is not new and neither is it clever. They increasingly seem to be used as a short cut toward verbal aggession where outright aggression cannot be used in many cases. There is no doubt, in my experience, that swearing now is much more commonplace than it used to be and has become almost acceptable without thought in many places.

I am no innocent. I am guilty of having 'lost it' and sworn in public. For me, when I feel I have to resort to swearing to make my point, I feel I have already lost the argument and I chide myself to hold my tongue. On the occasions I have sworn publicly I have felt a loss of pride and dignity... almost a loss of control to a lesser degree. To me I have no excuse for swearing at someone to make my point. Of course, what I find foul and offensive does not mean that others will. Each seem to have their own level of what they feel is correct and acceptable.

I hear women swear now every day of my life. That was not always the case. I never ever heard a foul word issue from my Father or Mother's tongue (at least in front of us as children and as a family). If they ever did to each other I never heard it EVER. Now you hear children using horrid language so matter of factly. They ultimately get that from the adults around them.

Am I being prudish? I hope not. But I am being nostalgic. I wish the time could return to when language was gentlemanly and ladylike. I think we had such a richer language then than we do now. People still had arguments and still passed insults. But they did it with manners in mind and a personal conviction as to how they themselves were being perceived.

In public, too, bad language scares me. It is often used so aggressively and I start to fear what is about to escalate (as all to often it does). Does anyone else ever feel like that?

Just some opinions

mp

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: kendall
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 04:42 PM

Profanity is the effort of a feeble mind to express itself.

Subject: RE: BS: offensive words
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 06:04 PM

Can one now take the name of the lord in vain?