When will Mudcat clean up its act?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 01:14 PM

"prudified," Amos Would you like to refudiate that?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 01:01 PM

I notice one solution tendered is to not have "guest" contributors.

I prefer doing the guest thing. When I joined, some people kept rattling on pushing their views through private posts. At least as a guest I don't have that to contend with.

I also resent the inference that guests don't watch their language. I reckon it is 50/50. or in other words, nothing to do with having guest status, (or lack of if you prefer....)

If you feel offended then please find a sanitised forum, I am sure they exist. But traditional songs such as Bonny Black Hare may not be on the lyric archives, so not much use as a folk forum then.

Also, on the BS section, you can find words such as Th*tcher. Now that spills my coffee too.....

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:56 PM

Besides, these songs have nothing to do with the folk tradition and have no place here.

It would help if he could give an example of a song which has NOTHING to do with the folk tradition, and explain which folk tradition he means.

Singing, singing, buttercups and bloody daisies?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: maeve
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:55 PM

Hello, Greg. I did read the OP. I see this line expressing an opinion, "Besides, these songs have nothing to do with the folk tradition and have no place here." but nothing stating a demand for removal.

I love this site with its riches and its warts and its fascinating people of all descriptions. I would not support deletion of lyrics or songs based on such opinions, but I do think we are capable of talking about the subject (again) without feeling we or the mighty Mudcat are threatened.

In short: What Bill D. said Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:45 PM .

Respectfully,

maeve who fears no word yet prefers to use them, as any tool, in the right place for the right job.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:53 PM

Besides, Mudcat isn't capable of doing any cleaning - *someone* has to clean up Mudcat.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:51 PM

Actually, I disapprove of this whole thread. The title contains inaccurate punctuation. I cannot believe the clones have permitted this.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:49 PM

".. he is asking for the songs that he disapproves of to be totally excluded. "

Right...and THAT is the extreme view, and we mostly agree that 'most' of those ARE folk songs.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:47 PM

"Mary had a little plane,
And in it she did frisk.
But when she flew it upside down,
Her little *..."

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:46 PM

Maeve: read the original post. He is not just just asking for the titles to be cleaned up, he is asking for the songs that he disapproves of to be totally excluded. They "have no place here" is what he says.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:46 PM

The old Harvest Home forum had an automatic expletive generator which would turn Scunthorpe into S****horpe even as you typed it! All a bit high-tech for mudcat methinks...

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:45 PM

I have said many times...and I KEEP saying, as I did in *that* thread... that having unexpurgated lyrics available does not bother me. All I wish is that we could avoid having casual browsers who are just glancing at a list of threads being surprised by the language...and this means kids....

*IF* someone wants to find the unexpurgated parts, it is perfectly easy, both in Mudcat search or Google search..(if one sets their preferences to 'no filtering')

I think that words widely considered objectionable should be 'edited' IN THREAD TITLES. Then, the full text is easily found by looking.

(Heck-- we have the full text of "Eskimo Nell" in the database! I heard it sung in its entirety once, and was not 'offended')

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:44 PM

I was delighted by a recent quote from the author Philip Pullman (the 'Golden Compass' man).

Someone claimed to be offended by his latest book, and he said to them: "You have no right to go through your life not being offended."

Quite right too!

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:43 PM

Furthermore, I am offended by the contentious, over-generalized, unappreciative tone you take concerning the free services of the site, of which you seem more than willing to take advantage.


A

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:42 PM

And why should your particular sensitivities, exagerrated and possibly hypocritical as they are, have precedence over the simpler principle of reflecting the actual language as used by those who wrote the titles? OR over the right of people to decide for themselves whether they want the ground truth or a prudified, gussied-up and sanitized version of it? We are talking about folk-music, after all, not some adulterated white-washed extract.


A

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:38 PM

Who's going to volunteer for all that editing?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:35 PM

Randolph-Legman's Roll Me in Your Arms", Cray's The Erotic Muse, and some Mudcat offerings bleeped? One hell of a lot of folk offerings might fit your request.
Who decides what is "offensive language ?."
May the heavens forbid!

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: maeve
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:33 PM

Sean Mc said, "Threads about songs with offensive language need to have the title 'bleeped'."

He is saying that he is offended by the language in some song titles, as posted in threads here. He has not asked that songs be changed. Rather, he suggests that unnecessary offense might be avoided by using *** or some such device, allowing those who choose to avoid offensive language may do so. Perhaps we can offer a useful discussion of this concern that honors his right to express his view.

Sean- Although I don't personally care for some language here, I find that the wealth of beauty of tune and lyric and the delights of intelligent discussion usually outweigh the dregs. I seek the first and avoid the latter. I trust you will pilot your course as is best for you.

Regards,

maeve

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:32 PM

Some people are just naturally bolshie, unfortunately. The original poster of this thread is notorious for swear-word personal attacks on other people, so it seems odd to come over all suddenly prudish. Perhaps this is just the usual trolling sort of thing?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:20 PM

Well, it's all depends on what you mean by folk. Personally, I would have thought any workable definition of folk would have to include the vernacular, unpublished, word-of-mouth disseminated type of thing. And "unpublished", naturally, will always include "unpublishable".
Having said that, there is an argument for not using the more common playground insult words in the titles of threads, if they cause offense.But that argument is only on grounds of limiting potential readership. There can be no argument for completely excluding songs because they contain swear words: unless you want to designate Mudcat as an International Forum for the Discussion of Polite Folk Songs?

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:19 PM

If you 'bleep' the words how will we know what they should be? I don't like gratuitous swearing myself but nor do I like Bowdlerisation. If that word is in the song then that's what should be shown. You could always look at another song.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: radriano
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:17 PM

Maintaining such a large website and database is not easy. How about a bit more understanding and less demanding.

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:16 PM

Hi Sean,

I am not offended by bad language and wouldn't make an issue of it's use. I don't use it my self most of the time because I know people who are offended by it. You are not likely to see it from me more than once or twice a year in the text of a post. I doubt you'll ever see it in a thread title from me.

But if you are so offened by the occasional F bomb that you will have to depart from these threads I'll say "So long" now. I think it will be too bad for me because you will not be here to offer an opinion or share some music. And it will be too bad for you because of all the great opinions, ideas, references, and art you will miss.

All because of one little word on a page of what must be thousands of other innocuous words.

Don

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:16 PM

in my opinion, the majority of problems on this site are caused by guests.
I was recently slandered by a guest, an accusation was made which was a complete pack of lies,the person got away with it because they were anonymous, this could not have happened if the site was members only.
no,I am sorry I dont know of a website where decency is observed, but I think this site is no worse than any others when it comes to four letter words.

Please note that I removed the offending message as soon as Dick asked me to.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:14 PM

Music websites tend to be somewhat confrontational 'cause folks have so mnay different opinions what is good and what ain't... Goes with the territory... I mean, I have been in bands where bandmates weren't exactly on the same page...

B~

Subject: When will Mudcat clean up it's act?
From: Sean Mc
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 12:07 PM

Threads about songs with offensive language need to have the title 'bleeped'. Besides, these songs have nothing to do with the folk tradition and have no place here. This is the second time I have been affronted whilst browsing Mudcat. I have not responded to the thread in question because it simply perpetuates it. I am not a prude - far from it, but, as it seems to be acceptable here and likely to happen again, I guess I will just have to exercise my option by not coming back. Anyone know of a folk website where decency is observed?