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Lyr Req: Murder in Irish (Thomas Dibdin)

Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Aug 10 - 03:08 PM
Steve Gardham 07 Aug 10 - 05:08 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Aug 10 - 01:21 PM
GUEST,^&* 16 Aug 10 - 01:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Aug 10 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,^&* 16 Aug 10 - 02:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Aug 10 - 02:40 PM
GUEST,mg 16 Aug 10 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,^&* 16 Aug 10 - 03:07 PM
GUEST,mg 16 Aug 10 - 03:24 PM
GUEST,^&* 16 Aug 10 - 03:31 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Aug 10 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,%^& 17 Aug 10 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,^&* 17 Aug 10 - 02:11 PM
GUEST,^&* 17 Aug 10 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,%^& 17 Aug 10 - 05:35 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Aug 10 - 01:54 PM
GUEST,^&* 21 Aug 10 - 10:18 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 03:08 PM

The Bodleian Library has a ballad, the text unreadable, that looks very interesting.

Murder in Irish
Harding B25(1282), printed by J. Jennings, bet. 1790-1840.

The index gives the first line-
"Without the help of a gammut-note, demisemiquaver, crotchet or minum [sic] ....."
Help would be appreciated in obtaining the lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 05:08 PM

Q
PM me your email address and I'll scan the copy in the J Stevens Cox collection and send you it. It's not brilliant but it is readable.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 01:21 PM

This seems to be the same song with a different title. From The Vocal Magazine, Volume 1, No. 1, (London: A. Redford, January 2, 1815), page 32:

[I wish I knew how to do hanging indents in HTML.]


THE IRISHMAN'S THEATRICAL DESCRIPTION,
or AN APOLOGY FOR A SONG.


Written and sung by Mr. T. Dibdin, with great applause, in his Entertainment of the Harmonists

TUNE.—ANY ONE THE SINGER PLEASES.

Without the help of gamut, note, demi-semi-quaver, crochet, or minum,
Or any other sort of sounds that have no meaning in 'em;
Without going round the bush and round the bush, playing at hide and go seek;
A man, without any tune at all at all, may sing just as well as he can speak.

[CHORUS:] Tiddy ti tol lol lay, tiddy ti tol lol lay,
Phillelu drimandru;
Subbaboo mushagrah.

When singing and speaking was such a sort of undertaking, as was executed according to nature,
He or she, who attempted to execute either, was something like a rational creature,
And your stage-players of old, to be sure, we are told, they would strut like a turkey or bustard;
But they knew no more about grinning, and grunting, and making faces at one another, than they did about making of mustard.

Sing tiddy ti tol, &c.

The great Turk, in a pet, I mean Bajazet, when by Tamerlane was taken in battle,
Like a bear, with head sore, blood and turf! How he'd roar, while his chains did melodiously rattle;
And old Shylock, the Jew, his long knife he drew, to be sticking in the poor merchant's beef!
But devil a Christian soul but what said to him in their hearts, bad luck to you, you butch'ring old thief.

Sing tiddy ti tol, &c.

Then thick-lipp'd Othello, that sooty-fac'd fellow, that choak'd his poor wife in her bed, sir,
Wou'd have made all the blood in your body run cold, and the hair almost stand an end on your head, sir;
And when crooked King Dick bid his kingdom for a horse, it's true upon my life, it's no fable;
The devil a one in the whole place would lend him a jack-ass, though they'd half a score in the stable.

Sing tiddy ti tol, &c.

Then Macbeth stuck the poor King in his sleep with a pair of damn'd French-looking daggers,
Struck the folk with his guilt, and the blood that he spilt, like a horse, when he's struck with the staggers:
And Macbeth sung, when he was going to be hung, a man can die bolder by brandy;
And the ladies in the boxes, from the duchess to the doxies, would be saying, to be sure, he's quite the tippy, and the dandy.

Sing tiddy ti tol, &c.

Now, to make an end of my song: to be sure, it's rather long, but then, as to words and the tune;
You're not only welcome as the flowers in May, but welcome as the roses in June.
Now, don't take it in your noddle, to say it is the twaddle, nor let any of it put you in a passion;
Because, upon my conscience, a little bit of nonsense, now a-days, it is the very tippy, and pink of the fashion.

Sing tiddy ti tol, &c.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 01:43 PM

It's a bit like Cherry-Garrard's description of Tom Crean's singing!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 02:13 PM

Steve furnished me with a readable copy of Murder in Irish; I considered it not worthy of inclusion in Mudcat.

The version posted by Jim Dixon is the same.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 02:36 PM

THIS is what I was thinking of. Needless to say - Crean was singing in Irish!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 02:40 PM

The reminiscences of Thomas Dibdin of the Theatres Royal, Covent Garden, Drury Lane, Haymarket etc 1837


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 03:03 PM

I clicked the clicky about Crean...is there a place he is singing? I didn/'t see it. mg


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 03:07 PM

GUESTmg

No, there isn't - but it's always been my belief that this is the only explanation for his English fellow sailors' inability to make out EITHER the tune or the words he sang! He was brought up through Irish.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 03:24 PM

I know...it turns out there is a chance he might be a relative of my great grandmother...not sure. Anyway, have you heard the 1918 recording of his sailing comrades singing a song for him? It is on youtube and we have mentioned it here. mg


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 03:31 PM

Yes - I listened to it and am curious about the origin and details.

Best wishes.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 12:05 PM

Here's that YouTube clip Does anyone have the ears to transcribe it?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,%^&
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 02:08 PM

There's a transcription HERE on a site associated with his home town of Annascaul.

I'd still love some details of how and when this recording appeared.


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Subject: Lyr Add: BALLAD OF TOM CREAN
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 02:11 PM

As on the site listed above:

Hail, hail, Tom Crean, hail, hail, Tom Crean,
He's the bravest man that the world's ever seen.
Hail, hail, Tom Crean, hail, hail, Tom Crean,
He's the Irish giant from county Kerry.

Walked thirty-five miles in the Arctic alone
To save Teddy Evans from making his bones.
He went down to the south with Shackleton and Scott,
Won three polar medals and a coward he's not.
Faced death many times, but he never backed down.
Came home to Anascaul, his little home town.

Hail, hail, Tom Crean, hail, hail, Tom Crean,
He's the bravest man that the world's ever seen.
Hail, hail, Tom Crean, hail, hail, Tom Crean,
He's the Irish giant from county Kerry. (less)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 02:13 PM

To the best of my recollection, there is no mention of such a recording in Michael Smith's biography of Crean.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,%^&
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 05:35 PM

I've started a new thread to try to pin down the Tom Crean recording HERE.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 01:54 PM

So which should it be - "GUEST,%^&" or "GUEST,^&*" ? Or something a bit easier to spell?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help with 'Murder in Irish'
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 10:18 AM

So which should it be - "GUEST,%^&" or "GUEST,^&*" ? Or something a bit easier to spell?

Looks like I need new varifocals! ;>)


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