The Blues???

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Stu
Date: 13 Sep 16 - 06:12 AM

Just learning to play the blues, now I've got a new Strat :-)

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Severn
Date: 12 Sep 16 - 05:21 PM

Recently, along with Heather Livingston, I am co-hosting a show on a new community radio station that just started up in july 2016.

ALTERNATE TUESDAYS ARE THE NIGHTS WHEN THE BLUES COME CALLING!
Join Heather Livingston and Severn Savage from 6-8pm on WOWD FM 94.3 for more of the best Blues and Blues-related recordings from the 1920s and 1930s and on alternate Tuesdays thereafter. Share the evening with us, and make us a regular listening habit. Prepare to be thoroughly entertained, educated, astounded and brought to laughter or tears by great American music. Hear where it all came from and why
Webcast WOWD-LP Webstream at http://takomaradio.org


We have done four shows so far, and our next show will be on September 20th. Please stream us online and come visit our site to tell us what you thought of the show, make suggestions or requests, and if you are playing acoustic blues in the Washington DC area, please post your gig schedule.

Also check out the WOWD schedule and check out the interesting programming of a new community radio station that's trying to do some things differently with radio. Blues fans might also like "Bayou Boogie" that gives you two hours of Louisiana music every Tuesday from 8-10pm

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Joe_F
Date: 12 Sep 16 - 04:39 PM

When I was about 3, my parents used to take me along to what is now called a convenience store. It had a jukebox. I always got to put a nickel in & choose a song. It was always "St Louis Blues". In was No. 4 (not on the Hit Parade, on the jukebox).

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 12 Sep 16 - 08:30 AM

Leadbelly also said, "You don't got the blues, the blues got you!"

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 16 - 08:19 AM

My vesrion of Blind lemon Jefferson's Electric Chair Blues


https://soundcloud.com/denise_whittle/electric-chair-blues-by-big-al

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 11 Sep 16 - 06:46 PM

Wanted to share a puzzling experience.

One evening in Austin, Texas, about twenty years ago, I attended a concert in an indoor arena, and it had a multiple line-up. The last act was B. B. King. Before him came Dr. John; Little Feat; and an all-star set-up with players like Pinetop Perkins. Mr. King was near seventy years old then. He had his backup band with him, he was wearing his Las Vegas sequin jacket, and he didn't have to sit down the WHOLE time, just part of the time. He could still roar like a lion, vocally; and there was nothing the guitar couldn't do.

The loud acts, like Little Feat, the volume was cranked up so high that the lyrics were only intelligible if I stuck fingers in both ears. Not saying that to be amusing, it was literally true.

B.B. King and his band came on at top volume like the acts before them. They would go out with fast, driving songs as well (a really driven performance of "The Thrill is Gone," none of the slow languor I recall from the studio version). In between came the part where Mr. King pulled up a chair, sat down, and played his guitar. The volume was low enough that I could take my fingers out of my ears and still understand the words.

In the arena about one row down from me, as Mr. King went through the slow, quiet, lyrical numbers, a lady of middle age turned to her date and said, in an acidic, sarcastic tone that could cut through steel:
"Where's The White Sheet?!"

All these years later I am still kind of blinking at that one.

I hope she was not speaking of violent incidents with men covered in white sheets, usually at night.

More likely she meant that the low volume sounded more dead than alive, and it was time to load up the gurney, tie a tag on the big toe, and throw a white sheet over it, whatever it was.

I was too intimidated to ask the lady what in the heck she meant.

That's all. Comments/opinions welcome.

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Leadbelly
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 03:04 PM

Playing the blues?

Like Leadbelly said: " It's so easy if you know how."

That's it, folks. Comes deep from inside. Can't be "learned".

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: PHJim
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 01:17 PM

My introduction to the blues was through my dad's old 78s, not country blues, but more old time jazz. I recall Dad singing St. James Infirmary and songs, that while not strictly 12 bar stuff, were very bluesy sounding.
The "great folk scare", as Utah Philips called it, peaked my interest in country blues and I had the opportunity to see players like sonny & Brownie, Skip James, Rev Gary Davis, Mississippi John Hurt, R.L. Burnside, Muddy Waters, Bucka White, Yank Rachell, Carl Martin, Geoff Muldaur, John Hammond, John Mayall ...live in concert. I also searched out and found many recordings by blues artists that I'd read about or heard mentioned by performers that I admired. Nowadays you can find almost anyone on Youtube, but it ook some real sleuthing in the sixties.

What is (are?) The Blues? I'd rather not try to come up with a definition.
There is the basic, 3 chord 12 bar progression, which probably everyone will call the blues, whether it's happy or sad.
Some folks vary the chord progression slightly, adding a VI7th chord in the 8th bar and a II7th chord in the 9th bar.
Jazzier blues players will add more chord substitutions, sometimes two or more chords per measure, but retain the twelve bar pattern.
Jimmie Rodgers added 4 bars of yodelling to the end of the 12 bar pattern, but it was still very bluesy.
There are also songs like Key To The Highway, which keep the bluesy feel even though they're only eight bars long, and Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out or Hank's I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry which have a bluesy feel too.
I don't agree with Hoot's allegation that white men/women can't sing the blues. If it sounds good, it is good.

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Harp Boy aka Vince Farabaugh
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 12:32 AM

I miss you man! Thanks for the compliment! I still play and have gotten better,I think. I hope you make it around here in west va.
My number is 571-732-5773
At [e-mail]

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 21 May 11 - 01:26 PM

Burton Coggles's link to the article on John White was broken; here's one that works: Taking the banjo back to the pre-recording days -- Pickens native John White releases Banjo Blues

Today NPR has this item: Gip's Place: A Blues Lover's Dream, about "an honest-to-goodness juke joint. Gip's Place is one of a precious few musical roadhouses still hanging on in this country." (in Bessemer, Alabama)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 09:58 AM

Hadn't heard of him until now, Pete... Man, I like his sound... Kinda a contemporary version of Doc Boggs... Like that percusssion... I think it's a gord that has had ribs cut into it to sound little like a washboard... I got one of them but can't figure out how to make it work with a foot pedal... Think they are called cabassa... 'er somethin' like that... If anyone can figure out how to play it witha foot pedal please let me know...

B~

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 03:32 AM

Anyone familiar with John White? I've been listening to his Banjo Blues CD which I like very much. Love the sound of blues on a fretless banjo.

Article here

CD info here

Pete

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:25 PM

LOL, Slag... Yeah, just had to raise the bar with that "black hole" comment... It's worked out real well... One of the best threads I'd say I can rememeber... Above the line, of course...

Way to go, Rob... Once that stuff imprints then watch out 'cause them fingers is gonna declare independence and then it's Katie-bar-the-door...

BTW, I had a meetin' down on Shenandoah this evening and one the way home popped in a CD I hadn't heard in awhile by Dan Pickett... He's kinda a mystery blues player from 'round the late 40s (maybe early 50s)... He was a white guy who laid down some of the finest country blues of his day... Lotta folks don't think that was his real name... I donno... Not much out there that I know of on him but he's plays exceptionally well and his songs are just as good...

Ya'll check him out...

B~

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Slag
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:22 PM

So yer sittin' around, not doing a thing. Picks up the gi'tar and ya bends a string. That sound, sounds like the day she got up and walked away. Make the note cry, then listen to it die. Bent up strings and awful things, sad like today. Feels like that's how it's gonna stay.

Off the Cuff Blues. Here's to ya and your black-hole thread, Bobert!

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:25 PM

Well, I'm pleased with myself a little bit. For the last couple of weeks I've been working on Henry Thomas' "Fishin' Blues", fingerstyle with some bass runs thrown in....something I've had real difficulty coping with until now. I can do repeating fingerstyle patterns, but varying them verse by verse and throwing in little runs and embellishments seemed beyond me...but I've finally got this one down tight on the guitar, to the point where it stays interesting throughout because I'm not just repeating the same progression with the same fingering over and over.

Just gotta get the words right now :-)

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 12:00 PM

Just takin' a short break from paintin' and lunch but I'll be back to this thread later this evening...

B~

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 10:45 AM

I was away when this thread slowed down. I heard a good blues song (the title will have to come to me later) sung and played by a fellow on guitar, with his wife backing him on, of all things, a muted hammer dulcimer. You know, it sounded good.

Another thread reminded me I enjoyed hearing Hans Theesink playing his blues http://www.theessink.com/en/ several years ago when I was a docent at the Edinburgh International Folk Festival. If you click the link, then "audio" from the left hand menu, you can have a listen.

Thanks for a long and interesting thread, Bobert and all. I expect we'll see it come to life again as others find something to add to the discussion.

Maeve

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 05:05 PM

I ain't never done that song with a bass player that can lay on that Fat E string like that so my version is quite different but I sho nuff love that song...

"Cadillac Records" I have heard of but never seen... Seems that I just don't know very much about the history of the Chicago blues scene even tho I like alot of folks that came outta there and do some song from them players... I might have to rent up that Cadiallac Blues and check it out... I'd heard that there wasa dcoumentary on Chess Studios but I wouldn't have clue about it either...

BTW, I just got the new "Southern Living" magazine and there's a section in there about things ya' gotta know about livin' in the South and one of them is about Mississippi blues and they make mention of T Model Ford who is another one of the oldsters still playin'... I did get to meet him but just kinda in passin' a few years back... Wished I'd been able to sit down and listen to him play some...

Didn't realize that Little Walter (Jacobs) came outta Chess... Reckon I stoled one of his, too, "Blues With A Feeling" which I put on my CD... Love that song... Great to have a slow song that folks just can't push the beat to heavy with... I mean, some songs is supposed to be slow and that one is...

Harp Boy, fir anyone interested, is/was a great harp player 'round the DC area... His real name is Vince Farabaugh... He and I started playing together long time ago and I tagged him with "Harp Boy" and it has stuck... Problem is that Harp Boy has a rather protective wifie-poo who keeps him on a short leash these days so he don't get out to play very often but...

...one of the best, if not **the best**, harp players in the area... I took him to Blues Week one year for the Wednesday night "blues party" and jam and he was hangin' tough with the most of the instructors...

Miss him... But that's the blues, ain't it???

B~

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Neil D
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:30 PM

There's a movie about Chess Records called "Cadillac Records". I don't know if it is very accurate. I know it focuses mainly on Leonard Chess (Adrien Brody) and I don't think Phil is even mentioned. However the music is excellent and makes it worth watching.

And here's that Slim Harpo you asked for. King Bee

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:28 PM

Playin' for change is what I'm talking about.
Yeah, too bad about Harp Boy. :-(. But he will come back some day.

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 09:40 AM

You are probably thinking of Bill Wyman and his book and DVD "Bill Wyman's Blues Oddyssey".

Re the Chess Brothers, Leonard and Phil; there are at least two books about them and their Aristocrat/Chess/Checker record labels. Plus biographies on Muddy, Little Walter, Howling Wolf and Willie Dixon which will fill in a bit more information.

Some of the people posting on this thread say they wish to learn more on the subject of the blues. I would suggest that they get down to their local library and pull out a few books, there are enough out there on the subect.

Yes I have heard Fred McDowell's version of Red Cross Store and had the pleasure of meeting him on two or three occasions and hearing him do it live. But I guess the song he is most remembered for is "Write Me a Few hort Lines".

Hoot

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 09:00 AM

BTW, Pete, that was some smokin' music by Bob Brozman & Co... Not too sure if they got a name for that little 2 stringer but sho nuff brings new meanin' to the word "harp" when it comes to the blues... I mean, that guy was playin' a real harp!!! Fine stuff... Thanks for sharin' it...

BTW, Hoot... Ya' heard Fred McDowell's "Red Cross Blues"??? Man, he smokes it'

"Them Red Cross people sho treat you mean...

... I ain't gonna down to that Red Cross sto no more..."

B~

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 07:23 AM

LOL, Hoot... That's whay I brought up the Chess Brothers 'cause I don't know squat about 'um... Yeah, I went out and bought the "Fathers and Sons" double LP when it came out and 'bout wore it out... It was my first real experience with the true blues and not like the Stones of Led Zepplin's interpretations of the blues... Well, of course there have been some croos-over blues players that most of us were familiar with like Jimmy Reed but "Fathers and Sons" was my into... But I never knew an "hoot" 'bout the Chess brothers and put them into the discussion so that maybe who had the skinny on them would put a few peas in the pot, so to speak...

Yo, G-Bucketeer... Yeah, you, me and HarpBoy did some nice stuff until HarpBoy got that life sentence... You know what I mean... I did talk to him briefly until the warden caught him and then the phone went dead...

Well, Hoot, I woulda helped ol' Muddy paint that wall, myself...

BTW, who was in the Stones who wrote the book about the Southern Bluesmen... Was it Keith Richards??? I can't rembemeber but when I was in Mississippi at Sherman's house (Yeah, the guy who gave/sold that geetar to Seasick Steve) they was talkin' about how that Stone stayed in the "Potato House" while he was there doing the research... Tehn they were talkin' about how that Stoner would go over to Junior Kimbrough's Juke Joint and listen and play... Now Junior Kimbrough was one fine player and had him one of the last rural juke joints just outsidea Como, Ms. which had burned down before I ever made my firsy pilgrimage down there... I was able to do a little playin' with his son Kenny (darned good drummer) who was playing with Terry "Harmonica" Bean and Rev. Slick at the IBC...

As for the blues bein' the devil's music??? Well, heck yeah, it is... I was doin' this presentation the other night on a project before the town council and the folks before me were pitching a blue grass/old time music festival and so I got called up before they had gathered their stuff and left the room but used it as a humorous way to begin my presentaion by tellin' um what a nice job they had done and tellin' 'um that whne I lived in Richmond, Va. I played with an old time string band and so the guy gave me his card and said to give him a call to which I replied, "Sorry, I croosed over to the dark side 'cause all I want do is play the blues these days"... Well, that got a good laugh even though I suspect that none of the council folks knew anything about the "crossroads"...

John Sinclair, of "Free John Sinclair" fame has a blues radio station down south (maybe Lousiana) and I hear him a few year back at Common Ground in Maryland and he was talkin' about the "crossroads" and said that, inspite of the stories about Robert Johnson doing the deal with the devil it was more like Tommy Johnson, not Robert... I donno... I thought about doin' the deal myself a couple times but the devil wouldn't throw in that '50 Ford Coupe... Maybe he'll reconsider??? LOL...

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: fat B****rd
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 07:17 AM

I'm with you there , Bobert

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 06:50 AM

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 06:16 AM

Bobert,

Re the Chess Brothers I am afraid that you are a little too far south.
They operated from Southside Chicago, South Cottage Grove from 191-54 for instance.
My reference to the paint job was a story related by a member of those British would be bluesmen the Rolling Stones who some of you may have heard of. The story was that when the guys went down to Chess studios on their first visit to Chicago to meet their hero Muddy Waters there was a guy in there painting the walls, and who do you think it was? I doubt if there was anybody out there who knew Muddy that believed that crock but it made a good story.

Somebody above says that music is a gift from god. That may well be but the blues is the devil's music and I know that because I read it somehwere and you had to get to a certain crossroads to get it.
I went to 4th and Beale once but it didn't work for me


Hoot

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: cooperman
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:53 AM

Nice one Stringsinger. Great descriptions/observations and I love that last line.
Might try playing more blues in the street. Not sure how it goes down in UK but weather here can sure give you the blues!
Hoowee Deputy Dog
(just threw that in so things don't get too serious)
Steve

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:42 AM

I just had to reply to this although I am not as qualified to contribute as other posts here it is a style of music that I have always had a fondness for more so than rock. I do think blues has contributed more to music than any for the rawness of it and lyrics that ordinary folks could identify with. People like Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, BB King, Billie Holiday will never be forgotten and Peter Green's 'Fleetwood' blues will be listened to in my house long after the next rock or pop fad. Ska on the otherhand tried to emulate Blues/Jazz but the chords of the music came out backwards but with such a good effect. Again it is another 'raw' sound that is a another favourite style of music for me.

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 03:49 AM

Gutbucketeer, HELLO!!!! You got it!...music is a gift from God, and it falls everywhere. So here is a link for all of you to watch, in its entirety!...If this brings the point home...(even sorta Blues based) is it officially the 'Blues' with feeling???...You tell me


..and we as musicians are divided?????

SANITY...!

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:35 AM

The Blues isn't about how fast you can play, or the gymnastics that you can do on the fingerboard. It's about the feeling and listening/working off each other to make that feeling happen

100% agree again. These guys are a long way from the delta but I think they embody what JAB says above:

Bob Brozman, Takashi Hirayasu, Djeli Moussa Diawara

Pete

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Gutbucketeer.
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:32 AM

Rob Naylor, Sanity, Bobert: I think we are all on the same page. I can't stand folks that try to categorize music or musicians as "authentic" or "copyists" or whatever. The Blues isn't about how fast you can play, or the gymnastics that you can do on the fingerboard. It's about the feeling and listening/working off each other to make that feeling happen. There are some you tube videos of folks that do some real fast technically awesome slide guitar work around blues progressions. They are so proud of themselves at the end of the video its like they are prancing around the barnyard crowing look at me. It's a 12 bar blues progression. But IT AIN'T THE BLUES.

Now Bobert, or Sidewalk when he's playing. PLays the BLUES. It's like a train going down the track, and there have been moments when I've played with him and I'm laying down the base, and he's sliding away, and harp boy is blowin' and we are all connected and we are all knowing where everyone else is going before they go there. It's transforming, and that's the BLUES.

I listen to the old masters Like BB King, Albert King, Robert Johnson, The Rev. Gary Davies, etc. to learn and admire. Not to
categorize them or get in debates on who was the best slide player or who was more "real".

I go to the Barbershop that Bobert talks about. Sometimes we play the BLUES there. We capture the moment and the feeling. A lot of times we don't.

JAB

P.S. I see I'm going to have to check back a lot more often:-)

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:57 PM

Ummmmm, wonder if anyone can find any clips of Slim Harpo??? I have been known to throw a Boberdized vesrion of "King Bee" into a set... Anyway, I loved the guy...

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:17 PM

Funny how this thread went very nice for 195 posts, GfS, until you infused politics into it... I mean, people was enjoyni just sharing stories and talking blues... No real arguments...

Yeah the thread was, up until then, nuthin but the BLUES... BTW, lotta women been here, too, and still no "arguing with the ol' ladies" 'cause why??? Oh yeah... They were talkin' blues and not trying to highjack a good thread with the usual below the line stuff...

Now I likes ya' but can ya' just leave the below the line mindset fir below the line... Prolly too late here... Seems that once someone jumps into a thread without reading or being part of the discussion and decides to take a dump on a good discussion the discussion is over... Normal...

Prolly headed south from here...

Yo, Pete,

Loved that Muddy stuff... But then again I've always loved Muddy's stuff... I generally like to stick "Rollin' & Tumblin" into my sets... I also clicked on that "Rock Me Baby" 'casue I used to play that a long time ago but was disappointed that it wasn't done by Muddy and the guy doin' it didn't seem all that enthused...

B~

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 07:12 PM

Bobert: "Strats, Les Pauls and rickies weren't the geetars of choice for the country rock bands of the 70's, GfS... Teles were 'cause you could get 'um to twang better than the others..."

I thought the topic had to do with BLUES players!..Oh, and I left out Gibson 335's...which I have, as well.

Some guys just have to argue on here, because they're makin' no progress with arguing with the ol' ladies!

GfS

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 05:54 PM

No, Hoot... If ya' look at when this thread was started you'll see that the original thread dropped outta sight after just a few postings and was resurrected a year or so later where it has done very nicely... Just go back to page 1 and look that the posting history and you'll see what I mean...

And, no, I didn't know the Chess brothers but there's lot out there on them and they were an important part of the Mephis music scene and I was just musin' how we got to 200 posts without them coming up... That's all...

BTW, I've done alot of paintin' in my day but not too sure what wall yer talkin' about...

Strats, Les Pauls and rickies weren't the geetars of choice for the country rock bands of the 70's, GfS... Teles were 'cause you could get 'um to twang better than the others... I had me a tele... Real twangy...

B~

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 04:15 PM

Bobert, You must have misread my post. I said '..'60's and mid 70's.'

..and, 'twangy Tele's and Martins'????....Who cares????. Besides, you left out Strats, Les Pauls and Rickenbackers....among others!..but, then again, Who cares??

GfS

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 04:03 PM

Speaking of McKinley Morganfield/Muddy Waters, and Telecasters for that matter:

She's Nineteen Years Old

That slide solo gives me goosebumps!

Pete.

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:58 PM

"Went into the MudBlackHole" ??

Looks to me that there have been regular postings - some interesting and some pointless - every day since you started this thread. and.......what about the Chess brothers? Did you hang out with them too and absorb all those south side vibes?
Was it you painting the walls when the Stoned arrived?

Hoot

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:54 PM

Cooperman, I'll take a try. The blues is a musical form. There are variations of it.
The traditional twelve bar blues has three lines. You state the first line and then repeat it the second time while you are trying to think of the way to rhyme and end it on the third.
The harmonies have changed over the years to accommodate the growth of jazz. One could argue that Charlie Parker was one of the greatest blues musicians that ever lived.

The blues singer emanates from the African-American tradition of outdoor slave hollers
and farmers. It has gone through a metamorphosis of a rural expression to the night clubs of Chicago and through the propagation of what was called "Race Records" by independent recording companies targeting Black audiences. The thematic material centers around hard living conditions and dysfunctional love lives.

There are few optimistic blues but there was
a genre called the "Party Blues" which was used to dance to and the verses were often risque.

The Cabaret Blues of the whorehouses in New Orleans were basically composed songs by the musicians that accompanied the Blues Chanteuse singers such as Bessie Smith. Some of the songs called blues by them were really out of the traditional 12, 8 bar or 16 bar forms. They were more like popular songs. The singers, however, retained a blues shouting style.

Most of the early rock and roll influences came from blues musicians in the clubs who played electric guitars for dancing. Some of the rural blues singers such as McKinley Morganfield moved to the big city (Chicago) and became Muddy Waters. Big Bill Broonzy started as a fiddler playing the blues in Georgia and moved to Chicago where he took up the guitar to accompany his singing.

When Black musicians took over the blues forms and changed them, the music became
broadened and included a popular base. Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, were two outstanding musicians who played the blues.

There is a question whether the Piedmont style of guitar playing which had a ragtime feel could be called the blues. The same problem is presented in analyzing the music of Leadbelly although he played the De Kalb Blues and the Red Cross Blues. Josh White popularized (some say watered-down) the blues by bringing into the Cafe Society crowd in New York. Billie Holiday was often referred to as a blues singer but very few of the songs she recorded were actually blues.

There is a substantial blues tradition. Like folk music, it is a flowing river that has many tributaries but it keeps on nourishing those who are into it.

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:34 PM

200???

I am completely blown away!!! And appreciative of eveyone here who continues to share theie thoughts and links and all that... It is mind-bogglin' considering this thread only get three or four posts to it when it was started and then went into the MudBlackHole... And we haven't even touched on the Chess brothers....

BTW, GfS... Look up when the Vietnam War ended... By then the 60s music was long gone and everyone was playing twangy Tele's or Martins...

BTW, ain't like all the ol' Mississippi cats have all died out... Pinetop Perkins, Hurbert Sumlin and David "Honeyboy" Edwards still out there on the road... And, of course, the always unpredictable, Buddy Guy...

B~

p.s. Now on to 300 to defy all logic...

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:19 PM

200!

Bobert said But as fir the blues, hey, I never think of copyists 'cause the blues is so individaul that it ain't all that easy to copy... At least as far as I am concerned...

100% agree. I think of "copyists" as those who learn entirely from dots or tab and try to get note perfect on solos that were originally improvised, and who don't know how to improvise themselves! It's no way to play any music imho.

Pete.

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: fat B****rd
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:09 PM

Anyway...I first heard of Leadbelly through Lonnie Donegan and UK persons may recall a Wally Whyton Light Programme series on a weekday lunchtime. I think it was a Thursday. That was spaggheti hoops day so I always assoiate Leadbelly with spaghetti hoops.
In the early 60s I went to the youth club where John Connolly sometimes played and he brought Alexis Korner's R and B at the Marquee. Another friend had the, then, recent Muddy Waters at Newport and at around the same time Pye released their Red and yellow R'n'b series with all the Chess and Checker people. I also heard Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee's Blues Is A Story LP and so all the various USA threads began to come together. Helped occasionally by Dave berry and the Cruisers and Joe Cocder's Big Blues. The Mississippi solo players, such as Charlie Patton came later, in mycase.
There and not a hint of politics!!
The Blues in all it's forms is by no means my only preferred music but if I ever feel like a quick twang on me Harmony..The Bourgeois Blues or Keep Your Hands off Her still goes down a personal treat.
Bobert, me old love 200 surely on the horizon.

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 12:58 PM

Bobert: "What derailed the music of the 60's was country/rock of the 70s... Hey, music goes in cycles...."

Get real! After the Vietnam war ended, a lot of the 'protest songs' lost their steam, (except for nostalgia buffs).

The was a lot of innovative music in the 60's-and early 70's, but, by in large, it was a period where mediocrity was chic!!!!....and it got old, and over commercialized. Only those who held on to it, or refused to mature, progressed beyond re-living the same old crap over and over, again and again!!!!!

Collect your bet, yet?

GfS

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 12:49 PM

Oh, really??? Were you there??? I don't recall any more of that back then then I hear today... Most bands refused to say political stuff 'cause it would mean maybe not gettin' booked... The concerts I went to people just wanted to get high and groove out...

I mean, the MC5 doesn't much represent the music scene... I mean, even Dylan and the Band refused requests to announce local anti-war stuff on stage...

Not too sure who these overly political bands were unless maybe yer talkin' about the Beatle's "Ya say ya' want a revolution" before singing "count me out... Ot the Who singing "We won't get fooled again"???

The places I was in the 60's were purdy much alike in that there was party time, which meant sex,drugs and rock 'n roll... And then there was anti-war/civil rights time... Even Richie Havens was purdy mild...

What derailed the music of the 60's was country/rock of the 70s... Hey, music goes in cycles.... then it was the music wasteland of the 80s (U2 maybe being an exception) then it was back to three chord headbangin' 60s music in the 90s with Stone Temple Pilot, Mother Loves Bone, Pearl Jam, Tonic, etc...

The blues, however, was also a victim of country rock 'cause lotta Britis Invasioners were pushed back by the Pocos, Greatfull Deads, Byrds, Dyaln and Flying Burrito Brothers...

But the blues came back strong in the 90s... Just took getting that country and disco stuff outta the way...

BTW, yeah, I played alot of country rock (no disco) right up until the 90s...

B~

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 11:28 AM

Bobert: "Well, gol danged, Sanity... Here we almost made it to 200 posts about the blues without any "political comentary"... The Vegas odds makers had it that 9-1 that that wouldn't/couldn't occur and the betting has been very high on the "9 side" and I know lotta them betters were gettin' right nervous so my question to you is: You one of those "9ers"...lol..."

I know!!....but, a LOT of musicians, back in the 60's, got derailed, when music took a political distraction, and a lot of them seem to carry that 'protesting stuff' too far, and bitch about EVERYTHING! The Blues, is the Blues, is the Blues, WITHOUT the divisions, found in the small mindedness of politics, and divisions that come with that mindset!

AND...I hope you picked up some bread, with odds like that!..at least enough to hire a gardener!!!

Wink!

GfS

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:39 AM

Absolutely, Neil... One of the musicans who influenced so many other contmporaries... Seemed that everyone back then knew all about Charlie Patton... Somehow doesn't get the credit he deserves in some circles... Enjoyed the pics ot the Delta Blues Museum in Clarksdale and would suggest that anyone whois ever close should spend a couple hours in it...

B~

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:20 AM

Well, for the sake of keeping it going here is my personal favorite bluesman of all time. Can't have a blues thread go by without a little
Charley Patton .

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 06:59 AM

Well, gol danged, Sanity... Here we almost made it to 200 posts about the blues without any "political comentary"... The Vegas odds makers had it that 9-1 that that wouldn't/couldn't occur and the betting has been very high on the "9 side" and I know lotta them betters were gettin' right nervous so my question to you is: You one of those "9ers"...lol...

Sheet fire... I jus' funnin'... Ya' see, when I'm talkin' music, I'm talkin' music... Period...

BTW, folks... (I know Gutbucketeers heart... I done played with him many times over the years... Some very memorable like the time we playded the Heritage Festival in the end of this barn with the doors open and it was rainy and cold and the wind blew in one door and out the other and we were slotted to do 50 minutes and by the half an hour mark my fingers were to numb to make any chords so just had to finish the set with slide on the left hand and strum with my fingernail on the right... Remember that one, Jimbo...

Or another time that we were in the middle of Son House's "Emprire State Express" when the train came barrleing thru right behind the stage... Think that's on his MySpace somewhere... Well, ol' hillbilly just held a rythum until the train was gone (2 minutes) and threw in a final verse as if we planned it like that....

But as fir the blues, hey, I never think of copyists 'cause the blues is so individaul that it ain't all that easy to copy... At least as far as I am concerned...

B~

p.s. BTW, I think we can get this blues thread over 200 and like my good gardenin' bud, Janie, I am enjoying all these clips that folks are puttin' up to listen to... Thanks all...

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 04:46 AM

Rob Naylor: "I've been doing a lot of listening to blues over the course of this thread so far. I'm still puzzled by the fact that some people categorise as "copyists" any person playing or singing blues who wasn't brought up in poverty in rural Mississippi."

That's because a lot of 'Catters' are full of uneducated OPINIONS!..Can't you tell???!!!

In the sixties they hated big government..now they can't wait till its bigger, and more intrusive, while its robbing them blind! Pretty soon, they won't be able to afford guitar strings..or even picks,,,or sell an ax, just to eat..but they LOVE IT THAT WAY!!!

Music is music, and is a GIFT....and can, and IS bestowed anywhere! I guess some of these nincompoops haven't had that stupid argument, in Chicago, St. Louis, Macon, Louisiana....just for starters!
most of them grew up as spoiled brats, with too much time on their hands, to bitch, instead of DOING!

Oh, did I forget, I agree with you!

Regards,

GfS



GfS

Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:15 AM

Gutbucketeer: ...All of the splitting hairs and talking gets a bit tedious. I would much rather just listen and play. It's gotta be deep down inside you though. Ya gotta feel it. It's gotta move you and the folks that hear it. AND they gotta listen and get that feeling deep inside them too.

Too many folks now make it an academic exercise. They've stopped listening.

I've been doing a lot of listening to blues over the course of this thread so far. I'm still puzzled by the fact that some people categorise as "copyists" any person playing or singing blues who wasn't brought up in poverty in rural Mississippi.

I'm maybe guilty of "talking and splitting hairs" but I really do want to understand the difference, if there relly is one. Some of the stuff I've been listening to has sounded completely heartfelt and authentic to me, even though the singer/ player may not have "ticked any of the boxes" of what a "real" blues performer "should be".

So I really want to know whether there's something that I'm not hearing (yet) deep in the music that makes "authentic blues" performers different to "good copyists". Not talking about "commercial bluesy" music here...I can tell the difference there. I'm talking about performers where I really feel the "deep bluesiness" but who people like Hoot say are "not authentic" because they come from a different social or cultural background to those who they class as "real" blues performers.