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The Blues???

Bobert 09 Aug 10 - 11:31 PM
mousethief 09 Aug 10 - 11:41 PM
Janie 09 Aug 10 - 11:59 PM
Will Fly 10 Aug 10 - 04:05 AM
Leadfingers 10 Aug 10 - 04:17 AM
Rob Naylor 10 Aug 10 - 04:25 AM
Roger the Skiffler 10 Aug 10 - 04:50 AM
cooperman 10 Aug 10 - 06:15 AM
Will Fly 10 Aug 10 - 06:18 AM
Will Fly 10 Aug 10 - 06:20 AM
cooperman 10 Aug 10 - 06:33 AM
Zen 10 Aug 10 - 06:39 AM
maeve 10 Aug 10 - 07:21 AM
Bernard 10 Aug 10 - 07:40 AM
Mavis Enderby 10 Aug 10 - 07:44 AM
Will Fly 10 Aug 10 - 08:18 AM
Zen 10 Aug 10 - 08:28 AM
maeve 10 Aug 10 - 09:19 AM
Leadfingers 10 Aug 10 - 12:28 PM
Les from Hull 10 Aug 10 - 12:33 PM
Leadfingers 10 Aug 10 - 12:36 PM
maeve 10 Aug 10 - 12:59 PM
cooperman 11 Aug 10 - 05:41 AM
maeve 11 Aug 10 - 06:05 AM
Mavis Enderby 11 Aug 10 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 11 Aug 10 - 09:29 AM
Dave MacKenzie 11 Aug 10 - 10:00 AM
Amos 11 Aug 10 - 10:34 AM
maeve 11 Aug 10 - 11:07 AM
maeve 11 Aug 10 - 11:09 AM
greg stephens 11 Aug 10 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 11 Aug 10 - 12:05 PM
dwditty 11 Aug 10 - 12:09 PM
dwditty 11 Aug 10 - 12:10 PM
dwditty 11 Aug 10 - 12:12 PM
dick greenhaus 11 Aug 10 - 12:14 PM
Mavis Enderby 11 Aug 10 - 12:22 PM
maeve 11 Aug 10 - 12:28 PM
Amos 11 Aug 10 - 12:35 PM
dwditty 11 Aug 10 - 12:42 PM
maeve 11 Aug 10 - 01:44 PM
greg stephens 11 Aug 10 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Aug 10 - 02:14 PM
Mavis Enderby 11 Aug 10 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 11 Aug 10 - 04:33 PM
Amos 11 Aug 10 - 04:40 PM
Mavis Enderby 11 Aug 10 - 04:46 PM
greg stephens 11 Aug 10 - 05:19 PM
greg stephens 11 Aug 10 - 05:20 PM
PoppaGator 11 Aug 10 - 05:45 PM
maeve 11 Aug 10 - 06:04 PM
Amos 11 Aug 10 - 06:19 PM
Leadfingers 11 Aug 10 - 06:54 PM
Dave MacKenzie 11 Aug 10 - 07:05 PM
Bobert 11 Aug 10 - 07:50 PM
maeve 11 Aug 10 - 08:03 PM
Bobert 11 Aug 10 - 08:21 PM
Bobert 11 Aug 10 - 10:55 PM
ichMael 12 Aug 10 - 12:10 AM
Rob Naylor 12 Aug 10 - 03:47 AM
Will Fly 12 Aug 10 - 04:18 AM
cooperman 12 Aug 10 - 05:16 AM
GUEST,essex girl 12 Aug 10 - 05:41 AM
Rob Naylor 12 Aug 10 - 05:57 AM
greg stephens 12 Aug 10 - 06:04 AM
greg stephens 12 Aug 10 - 06:09 AM
Will Fly 12 Aug 10 - 08:45 AM
Bobert 12 Aug 10 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 12 Aug 10 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 Aug 10 - 10:34 AM
Boho 12 Aug 10 - 10:34 AM
Bobert 12 Aug 10 - 10:45 AM
Bobert 12 Aug 10 - 10:52 AM
Dave MacKenzie 12 Aug 10 - 10:54 AM
Will Fly 12 Aug 10 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 12 Aug 10 - 11:04 AM
Will Fly 12 Aug 10 - 11:25 AM
Rob Naylor 12 Aug 10 - 11:59 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 Aug 10 - 05:41 PM
Mavis Enderby 12 Aug 10 - 05:47 PM
Bobert 12 Aug 10 - 05:51 PM
Dave MacKenzie 12 Aug 10 - 06:10 PM
Bobert 12 Aug 10 - 07:37 PM
Mavis Enderby 13 Aug 10 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 13 Aug 10 - 05:11 AM
Rob Naylor 13 Aug 10 - 05:43 AM
cooperman 13 Aug 10 - 06:51 AM
Mavis Enderby 13 Aug 10 - 07:10 AM
Will Fly 13 Aug 10 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 13 Aug 10 - 07:57 AM
Will Fly 13 Aug 10 - 08:01 AM
Bobert 13 Aug 10 - 08:09 AM
Bobert 13 Aug 10 - 08:11 AM
Will Fly 13 Aug 10 - 08:47 AM
Bobert 13 Aug 10 - 09:10 AM
maeve 13 Aug 10 - 09:20 AM
Will Fly 13 Aug 10 - 09:27 AM
GUEST,Neil D 13 Aug 10 - 09:42 AM
Will Fly 13 Aug 10 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,CAP 13 Aug 10 - 10:09 AM
Mavis Enderby 13 Aug 10 - 10:41 AM
maeve 13 Aug 10 - 11:02 AM
maeve 13 Aug 10 - 11:35 AM
Dave MacKenzie 13 Aug 10 - 11:40 AM
Bettynh 13 Aug 10 - 12:27 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 13 Aug 10 - 03:29 PM
Bettynh 13 Aug 10 - 04:39 PM
Bobert 13 Aug 10 - 04:51 PM
Dave MacKenzie 13 Aug 10 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 13 Aug 10 - 05:58 PM
melodeonboy 13 Aug 10 - 06:02 PM
Bobert 13 Aug 10 - 07:36 PM
Rob Naylor 13 Aug 10 - 07:47 PM
Janie 13 Aug 10 - 07:50 PM
Janie 13 Aug 10 - 08:05 PM
Bobert 13 Aug 10 - 09:13 PM
Janie 13 Aug 10 - 09:49 PM
Bobert 13 Aug 10 - 10:05 PM
Boho 13 Aug 10 - 10:56 PM
Janie 13 Aug 10 - 11:15 PM
Will Fly 14 Aug 10 - 07:02 AM
Will Fly 14 Aug 10 - 07:07 AM
Bobert 14 Aug 10 - 09:05 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 14 Aug 10 - 09:10 AM
Janie 14 Aug 10 - 09:20 AM
Janie 14 Aug 10 - 09:33 AM
Bettynh 14 Aug 10 - 09:33 AM
Will Fly 14 Aug 10 - 09:39 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 14 Aug 10 - 11:26 AM
leeneia2 14 Aug 10 - 09:19 PM
Bobert 14 Aug 10 - 09:34 PM
Max 14 Aug 10 - 10:40 PM
katlaughing 14 Aug 10 - 11:37 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 15 Aug 10 - 07:18 AM
Bobert 15 Aug 10 - 08:40 AM
Mavis Enderby 15 Aug 10 - 03:50 PM
Bobert 15 Aug 10 - 08:19 PM
GUEST,Neil D 16 Aug 10 - 01:46 PM
GUEST,Neil D 16 Aug 10 - 01:49 PM
GUEST,Neil D 16 Aug 10 - 01:55 PM
Bobert 16 Aug 10 - 08:15 PM
maeve 16 Aug 10 - 08:19 PM
Rob Naylor 17 Aug 10 - 05:04 AM
buddhuu 17 Aug 10 - 05:49 AM
Green Man 17 Aug 10 - 07:19 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 17 Aug 10 - 08:07 AM
Bobert 17 Aug 10 - 08:58 AM
Bettynh 17 Aug 10 - 09:50 AM
Neil D 17 Aug 10 - 11:41 AM
Bobert 17 Aug 10 - 12:36 PM
Desert Dancer 17 Aug 10 - 03:16 PM
Bettynh 17 Aug 10 - 04:13 PM
Mavis Enderby 17 Aug 10 - 05:01 PM
Bobert 17 Aug 10 - 07:29 PM
Bobert 17 Aug 10 - 07:42 PM
Leadfingers 17 Aug 10 - 07:54 PM
Desert Dancer 17 Aug 10 - 08:08 PM
Bobert 17 Aug 10 - 09:09 PM
Bobert 18 Aug 10 - 07:52 PM
maeve 18 Aug 10 - 08:22 PM
Mavis Enderby 19 Aug 10 - 04:15 AM
Bobert 19 Aug 10 - 08:25 AM
Neil D 20 Aug 10 - 01:06 AM
maeve 20 Aug 10 - 06:36 AM
Bobert 20 Aug 10 - 09:04 AM
Desert Dancer 20 Aug 10 - 11:36 AM
dick greenhaus 20 Aug 10 - 12:56 PM
maeve 20 Aug 10 - 01:10 PM
Bobert 20 Aug 10 - 01:24 PM
maeve 20 Aug 10 - 01:46 PM
Bobert 20 Aug 10 - 06:29 PM
Bobert 21 Aug 10 - 09:10 AM
Desert Dancer 21 Aug 10 - 11:49 AM
Bobert 21 Aug 10 - 12:59 PM
Stringsinger 21 Aug 10 - 01:09 PM
mayomick 21 Aug 10 - 01:41 PM
Rob Naylor 21 Aug 10 - 03:33 PM
Bobert 21 Aug 10 - 09:02 PM
Rob Naylor 22 Aug 10 - 06:53 AM
Bobert 22 Aug 10 - 08:34 AM
Bobert 22 Aug 10 - 10:51 PM
Neil D 23 Aug 10 - 01:02 AM
Bobert 23 Aug 10 - 07:58 AM
Bobert 23 Aug 10 - 07:54 PM
GutBucketeer 23 Aug 10 - 11:49 PM
Bobert 24 Aug 10 - 04:08 PM
Bobert 24 Aug 10 - 04:41 PM
Dave MacKenzie 24 Aug 10 - 07:41 PM
Janie 24 Aug 10 - 10:53 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Aug 10 - 02:50 AM
Rob Naylor 25 Aug 10 - 03:15 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Aug 10 - 04:46 AM
Bobert 25 Aug 10 - 06:59 AM
GUEST,Neil D 25 Aug 10 - 08:20 AM
Bobert 25 Aug 10 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Aug 10 - 11:28 AM
Bobert 25 Aug 10 - 12:49 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Aug 10 - 12:58 PM
fat B****rd 25 Aug 10 - 03:09 PM
Mavis Enderby 25 Aug 10 - 03:19 PM
Bobert 25 Aug 10 - 03:34 PM
Stringsinger 25 Aug 10 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 25 Aug 10 - 03:58 PM
Mavis Enderby 25 Aug 10 - 04:03 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Aug 10 - 04:15 PM
Bobert 25 Aug 10 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Aug 10 - 07:12 PM
Bobert 25 Aug 10 - 08:17 PM
Bobert 25 Aug 10 - 08:57 PM
GUEST,Gutbucketeer. 26 Aug 10 - 12:32 AM
Mavis Enderby 26 Aug 10 - 01:35 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 26 Aug 10 - 03:49 AM
GUEST,Patsy 26 Aug 10 - 04:42 AM
cooperman 26 Aug 10 - 04:53 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 26 Aug 10 - 06:16 AM
Bobert 26 Aug 10 - 06:50 AM
fat B****rd 26 Aug 10 - 07:17 AM
Bobert 26 Aug 10 - 07:23 AM
Bobert 26 Aug 10 - 09:00 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 26 Aug 10 - 09:40 AM
GutBucketeer 26 Aug 10 - 02:28 PM
Neil D 26 Aug 10 - 04:30 PM
Bobert 26 Aug 10 - 05:05 PM
maeve 09 Sep 10 - 10:45 AM
Bobert 09 Sep 10 - 12:00 PM
Rob Naylor 09 Sep 10 - 03:25 PM
Slag 09 Sep 10 - 05:22 PM
Bobert 09 Sep 10 - 08:25 PM
Mavis Enderby 10 Sep 10 - 03:32 AM
Bobert 10 Sep 10 - 09:58 AM
Desert Dancer 21 May 11 - 01:26 PM
GUEST,Harp Boy aka Vince Farabaugh 22 Feb 14 - 12:32 AM
PHJim 22 Feb 14 - 01:17 PM
Leadbelly 24 Feb 14 - 03:04 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 11 Sep 16 - 06:46 PM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 12 Sep 16 - 08:19 AM
Uncle Tone 12 Sep 16 - 08:30 AM
Joe_F 12 Sep 16 - 04:39 PM
Severn 12 Sep 16 - 05:21 PM
Stu 13 Sep 16 - 06:12 AM
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Subject: BS: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 11:31 PM

So, okay, here we are in Mudville where they have this ad for some blues thing... I donno, maybe it's not an ad... Something about the "the blues"...

But then every blues thread makes it to 20 posts then it's the blackhole...

I mean, it would be nice to see the folks here that is into the blues, ahhhhhh, come on in an' say, "Hey"...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Blues???
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 11:41 PM

Hey.

Woke up this morning, saw the blues walkin' like a man
I said I woke up this morning, saw the blues walkin' like a man
They wuz walkin' 'way from Mudcat 'cos ain't 'nuff people understan'


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Subject: RE: BS: The Blues???
From: Janie
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 11:59 PM

Hey.

Too ignorant to contribute, Bobert. Just like to learn. I don't think I have ever made any contribution to a thread regarding blues. I am guessing I have read and followed most of then, however, in the 8 or so years I have been on Mudcat.

This thread ought to be bumped to above the line.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 04:05 AM

I've always played blues, among other things. I did this just yesterday - whether you think it qualifies or not is up to you...

Mellow G Blues

I'm easier playing it than talking about it, but happy to chip in if someone starts a thread. :-)


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 04:17 AM

Cant remeber who , but I heard tat one Old Blues man was asked if he read music - His reply was " Hell Man ! You dont read music , you just play the stuff!"
Which is what we will be doing at Getaway !


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 04:25 AM

Lovely video, Will. Nice slow, relaxed blues..."mellow" is exactly right.

Bobert: Like Janie, I feel too ignorant of the blues to contribute, but I also want to learn more. I guess I grew up with a very narrow idea of "the blues" and it's only in the last couple of years when I've been trying to learn the guitar myself that I've started to realise just how much of contemporary music it underpins.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 04:50 AM

Hey!

RtS
(aka Tonedeaf Lime Clinton, the Washboard of Mass Destruction)


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: cooperman
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 06:15 AM

Hey!
The three question marks are the key here.
What is a blues song?
Does it have to follow the usual blues pattern?
Does it have to be about losing your lover or can it be about other sad events like your car breaking down?
I guess not many people nowadays are going to write songs about cotton pickin and totin that bale.
Someone said to me recently 'I like your blues songs but they are a bit sad'
I love folk and blues music. Luckily they seem to be happy bedfellows at the moment. They can certainly overlap in terms of style of songwriting.
Danger is making it some kind of intellectual subject for discussion and disemmination!!!
www.stevepaulcooper.co.uk
Steve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 06:18 AM

Steve - took the liberty of correcting your clicky to:

Steve Paul Cooper

(Yours didn't work) :-)


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 06:20 AM

Hmmm... my "correction" didn't work either...

Steve Paul Cooper

This does!


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: cooperman
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 06:33 AM

Thanks - might write a blues song about computers!
Any suggestions for a title anyone?


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Zen
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 06:39 AM

Hey! (again!)

Zen


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 07:21 AM

Hey, Bobert. I'm interested, and want to learn. We used to have a mess of old blues albums on LP, CD, and cassette, but they're gone now. I always watch for Blues threads here and try to contribute.

Woke up this morning, I still have no guitar.
Some day I'll play again; those Blues will travel far.
I got them housefire blues...

maeve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bernard
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 07:40 AM

My computer just went down
It's done it often times before.
Yeah, my computer just went down
It's done it often times before.
So I threw it out the window,
Now it's in bits all over the floor!!


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 07:44 AM

Hey!

Love the blues, would like more discussion of it too

I'm a great fan of slighly more unusual blues, especially where it's played on the less common instruments - like banjo, mandolin, fiddle, or anything really!

I play blues on banjo, mandolin, slide guitar, and more recently I've been messing with an oud which, beleive me, is a fantastic instrument for blues.

I tried to keep the Blues But Not thread afloat earlier in the year but gave up in the end. If anyone fancies reviving it, be my guest!

Pete.

PS - Hello Steve - hopefully bump in to you soon in Lincoln...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 08:18 AM

I'm partial to the jug band end of the blues spectrum myself - mandolins and fiddles play a great part in that. Memphis Jug Band, Gus Cannon's Jug Stompers, etc.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Zen
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 08:28 AM

I'm partial to both Delta blues on the guitar and players like Yank Rachell and Rich DelGrosso for mandolin blues.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 09:19 AM

My old friend Chris Smither is a strong favorite among current Blues musicians.

maeve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 12:28 PM

And , of course , Brian Peters makes a damn good fist of Blues on Melodian


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 12:33 PM

I play some blues on bouzouki and melodeon, although I've been playing blues harp for many years.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 12:36 PM

I KNEW I'd mis spelt it as soon as I hit Enter


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 12:59 PM

Brian Peters- great music of many kinds.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: cooperman
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 05:41 AM

Nice one Pete.
I fancy a go at blues fiddle but I like a deeper sound.
I drop the string tuning on mandolin.
Was thinking about a viola with octave strings on it.
Suppose you can get any sound with electric but that doesn't appeal.
Anyone got any ideas or experience?
Steve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 06:05 AM

"viola with octave strings on it." There's a thread discussing that somewhere around here.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 09:22 AM

How about blues cello? I absolutely love this: Crooked Still - Come on in my kitchen

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 09:29 AM

Well so far it looks like 24 postings and from those there is mention of just one blues musician and two jug bands. So I guess that this thread will soon die too. No surprise there.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 10:00 AM

I guess blues fans are just less contentious than folkies!


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 10:34 AM

Aw sheeit, you-all. Blues is not contentious.

Blues is acceptance, man.

I learned mine from Bessie, Brownie, Sonny and Huddie. Not in person, of course except for Huddie, but from those LP things. Thank gawd for Lomax and his kind that this music did not disappear before it was supplanted by rockabilly!


A


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 11:07 AM

I love blues guitar, though I haven't learned to play in a blues style I am going to try. As long as I'm starting over I might as well throw in some new techniques and styles.

I've always wanted to sing some Blues. I have to relearn all of my old songs and adding in the blues songs I love best but where can I try 'em out? Who can I sing with? It's a challenge here. I'm looking for a bluesy song The House Band used to do. If I can find it again I'll relearn that, too.

As for this thread continuing on...add some good Blues discussion and links and see what happens.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 11:09 AM

A good friend gave me a Fender steel String guitar yesterday. Action is kind of high; makes it good for using a slide maybe?


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 11:18 AM

Blues on different instruments: the cajun style uses acordion(or melodeon as we call it here in England) to great effect. Here is Tony Weatherall in action, a lovely player
Bosco Blues


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:05 PM

Greg,

Do you seriously consider this to be blues music?

Just curious.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: dwditty
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:09 PM

Many think that DW Ditty comes from that Manfred Man hit (Doo Wa Ditty), but it is actually from a Blind Blake tune.

To me, blues is not a thing, but a feeling. A friend once told me that if you slow any song down enough, it can be a blues song. Try it..it even works with the Barney Theme song.

a kid, I never connected to popular songs lik emy friends did. ABout 50 years ago I started listening to WILD in Roxbury, MA, and that was it. Of course, plenty of rock n roll stuff was nothing more than a whiter shade of blue.

If you want to dig into where the blues came from - not the blues you find in stores - even vintage record stores - but the blues that was made in the fields of the rural American south, go to Juneberry78s.com and hit the listening room. Just regular folk singing and playing their hearts out.

Here is one of my imitations

dw


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: dwditty
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:10 PM

Link didn't work.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: dwditty
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:12 PM

One more try:

Hope it works - otherwise, l'il help?


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:14 PM

The blues ain't nothin' but a good man feelin' blue...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:22 PM

There's a free fRoots article on Ian Siegal, IMHO the best British blues player around at the moment

You can view it here (hopefully)

Interesting comments on the state of the British blues circuit, and links between blues, country and gospel.

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:28 PM

dwditty- Your link works fine for me. Thanks.

maeve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:35 PM

It's a five dollar woman, tied down to a two-dollar man.


A


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: dwditty
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:42 PM

Max seems to have taken down the original Mudcat home page. This site was originally set up primarily as a blues site with lots of info about the blues masters. Maybe some of that information is still around. Max?


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 01:44 PM

This, dwditty?

http://www.mudcat.org/blues.cfm


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 02:10 PM

Hootenanny: sure I think Louisiana blues is blues. I love it. Clifton Chenier and Nathan Abshire, to name but a few, turned in some great French blues, whether zydeco-ish or cajun-ish.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 02:14 PM

Here's a quotation from upthread:

" Hell Man ! You dont read music , you just play the stuff!"

Unfortunately, if blues players don't read music (and presumably don't know any theory), then it's very hard for them to talk about how they play. It's pretty hard to discuss muscle memory.

Note the 'Hell Man.'

There's no need to get hostile. Yet if you start posting any music theory on a blues thread, you will soon get hostile responses.

As for Greg Stephen's Bosco Blues, (linked above) that is definitely blues. I like it.
=========
Maeve, go carefully with that guitar that has the strings too high. It could hurt your hands or wrists. Take it to a music store and have somebody make it right.

By the way, I don't believe that, about blues musicians not being able to read music.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 04:22 PM

By the way, I don't believe that, about blues musicians not being able to read music

I'd say some could, some couldn't. Some were completely illiterate. Didn't stop them making beautiful music though.

Also just because you don't read music, doesn't mean you don't know any theory.

And a high action is ideal for slide. Go for it Maeve!

And now for some John Lee Hooker (illiterate): Boogie Chillen

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 04:33 PM

This thread still doesn't seem to be referring much to blues musicians. There is what appears to be an English band playing a tune Cajun style and admittedly it is in a blues format. Clifton Chenier who played Zydeco which is Cajun with a strong dose of blues, Nathan Abshire who played Cajun. Someone else mentions an English musician that attempts to play the blues. Then there is a film clip of someone attempting to play and sound like a blues man (and incidentally I believe the Bland Blake song is actually "Diddie Wah Diddie).

I am not putting down anybody here but does nobody on this site listen to the real thing any more?

And Leeneia, which blues musicians have you met that read music. I am not implying that there are none but as someone with a long time interest in the music I would be intersted to know on what you base your non-belief.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 04:40 PM

According to this article, recording the blues might explain whale speak, I dunno, though. It might work...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 04:46 PM

I am not putting down anybody here

Hmmmm...

but does nobody on this site listen to the real thing any more?

So give us some examples then Hoot - what pulls your chain?

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 05:19 PM

Hootenanny: tell us what you like. Direct us to the old bluesmen that you particularly enjoy, I think the thread is for that. If you are not interested in other's comments, suggest a few yourself. I put up a clip of some cajun blues because an earlier post mentioned the melodeon as a possible instrument for playing the blues. Many Louisiana musicians used it, and the piano accordion, to play blues. Leadbelly(a great blues man) also played melodeon, though to my knowledge he never recorded a blues on it, just two or three other dance tunes.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 05:20 PM

I foprgot: in addition to Leadbelly's dance tunes on the melodeon, there is also his sensational version of John Hardy.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 05:45 PM

I certainly enjoy the blues, whether strictly or loosely defined, and I usually enjoy reading what people have to say about it, but I don't really have much to say when it comes to writing about music myself.

Writing "about" music is tricky. Didn't someone once famously write that it's "like dancing about architecture"? Back in 1970, I interviewed for a job at Rolling Stone, was encouraged to submit articles as a freelancer, and got an introduction to a fellow who was already successfully contributing work as a freelancer.

Within about a week, I ditched the effort and gave up all ambitions to work as a "music writer." Instead, I began putting all my energy into playing music on the streetcorners of San Francisco ~ much more satisfying. The fact that I never achieved much success as a performer (never advancing from busking to actual paying gigs) does NOT make me regret that decision, not in the least.

*****************

I enjoy Mudcat a little less today than when I first encountered it, back when its focus was on the blues and related US folk-music traditions. Just a matter of personal taste. I still enjoy my visits here; I just find an ever-increasing number of discussion threads that I don't bother to look at.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 06:04 PM

Thanks, Leeneia and Pete. Thanks to y'all who have posted; every one adds to my understanding of Blues and what they might sound like coming through my life.

Hoot, I'd love to hear any cuts you and anyone else can suggest. Our wonderful collection of thousands of 1920's disks through current cds as well as all of our instruments were reduced to ashes. I can hear some old Blues musicians online, but I don't have much time to sit and search.

Right now I'm struggling to find food and clothing for us and my husband is working himself to death to keep us safe. Winter is coming and we have just this camper for housing. This guitar is a Godsend; yet it is very different from my Apollonio; much more difficult to play. I'm sick and tired and in pain.

Got any songs/tunes relating to my blues? On account of I sure-t purely got 'em.

Links are always appreciated. Thank you.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 06:19 PM

MEBBE writing about blues is like dancing about architecture.

A


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 06:54 PM

And what was that old itnam War one about Fighting for peace ??


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 07:05 PM

I can think of quite a few early bluesmen who didn't read music:

Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Blake, Blind Willie Johnson, Blind Willie McTell ......


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 07:50 PM

WOW!!!

What a nice surprise to come home from a day on the road and find that this thread that I started last year and which dropped off the bottom after only 3 posts is alive and well...

Readin' music??? Nah, not too many blues player have any interest in learning that stuff...

Fir beginners it just a 1-4-5 progression...

Lotta of the blues I play comes outta north Mississippi in the "hill country" (lol)... No hills there just the banks of a flooded Mississippi Delta... Lotta different istruments played there... Get way back in the country at "picnics" and folks play fife and drum... The late Otha Turner was prolly ther best known fife player in Mississippi... I mean, I been to picnic where folkls be out in the front yard playing fife and drum and 90 year old women doin' some dirty dancin'... I mean, I won't get into no details...

Lotta the folks I know who play that north Mississippi stuff play one chord blues... Okay, it ain't exactly i chord but it ain't far from it... Ain't no 1-4-5 12 bar... It's more a cross between traditional delta blues, rockabilly and hard driving rock 'n roll... Kinda started with Fred McDowell and then down to R.L Burnside and Jessie Mae Hemphill and then to the rst of us playin' that style of blues... Like Richard Johnston, John Lowe, Ben Prestage, etc...

More later... We got a storm comin' in...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 08:03 PM

Welcome home, Bobert.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 08:21 PM

Yeah, thanks, maeve... Had to pick up the P-Vine 12 year old grandson... Think I drove about 600 miles today...

Hey, folks... Now some of ya'll have actually seen this instrument I play... It's called a Lowebow and it is made from a cigar box, two 1 1/4 inch dowel rods for a neck, is fretless, has one baig fat bass string with it;'s own electric pickup and 3 treble strings with 2 pickups... It looks like some toy but when it is plugged in it ain't no toy... Quite a few of us north Mississippi blues players are playin' 'um... Real ggod on the one chord blues... Hey, when I say one chord it ain't exactly just one chord... Ya'll Google up R.L. Burnside and give listen... He's a master... Fred McDowell was the master before him...

BTW, every year there is one super north Mississippi music gathering at the late Otha Turners house just called the "Mr. Otha's Goat Roast" and musicans from all around come and jam and party... It in Como, Ms... In August and everyone is invited... Now ya'll wnat to hear some blues, then this is the real deal...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 10:55 PM

Ya'now, I think it would be great fir a blues thread to go over a hundred posts... Like when did that ever happen, if ever??? So, fir the folks who have contribted this ol' hillbilly would love it if ya'll would contuing it so that we can all one day be able to look our grandchildtren in the eye and say...

..."Hey, youngin's... Don't you ever forget that yer (granny/grandpa) was one of the folks who helped a "Blues" thtread make to a hundred at Mudcat."

I mean, that would be quite an accomlishment... Something to pass down to the next generation and the one after that...

So, ya'll... Keep the blues alive...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: ichMael
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 12:10 AM

Links...

Dark was the Night by Blind Willie Johnson. Great song. Ry Cooder called it the greatest, or something like that. He used it as the basis for his Paris, Texas soundtrack. (Good movie, by the way, if you like gut-wrenching tearjerkers).

The Muddy Waters Chess Box set is the best compilation by a single artist I've ever heard. Great songs + Muddy Waters, Willie Dixon, Little Walter and so on. Long Distance Call, Forty Days...

Taj Mahal's first album is incredibly dynamic. Gets my vote for the best single blues album I've ever heard.

The Brits gave the world the Blues Breakers album. Eric Clapton's amazing on that.

I'm partial to Texas blues musicians. Lightnin' Hopkins, Johnny Winter, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Willie Johnson, Stevie Ray Vaughan.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 03:47 AM

I'd really like some pointers towards some of the less well-known but great blues players. I'm aware of people like Muddy Waters, Mississippi John Hurt, Blind Lemon Jefferson, etc, and the "rock" blues players of the 60s and 70s who went on to fame and fortune as "global" names, but I have a strong feeling that there's a whole wealth of blues out there that I don't have a clue about.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 04:18 AM

Rob - why not start by reading All Music Guide to the Blues: The Definitive Guide to the Blues - around £13 on Amazon. It's a pretty good guide to the music.

There's a wide variety of styles. To me, the great thing about the blues is the simplicity and beauty of the musical structures. It invites you in. There's something for everyone who wants to make music and use those structures. I couldn't and wouldn't attempt to sing much of it - after all, what does a white lad from Lancashire have in common with Robert Johnson - but the musical form is still open.

Mind you, I do recall, many years ago, seeing two wonderful old blues men from the Irwell Delta near Manchester - Blind Lemon Clegg and Sleepy John Arkwright (thank you, Mike Harding).

Sorry - memory laps - it wasn't Sleepy John Arkwright, it was Rev. Gary Davis at the Free Trades Hall in 1964. One of the most wonderful nights of my life.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: cooperman
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 05:16 AM

As someone once said 'without the roots we'd have no fruits'. It's a great legacy left to us by the likes of Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Otis Spann, Yank Rachell.
Interesting how it crossed the Atlantic in the 60's with the Marquee Club (good CD - Knights of the Blues Table). I jumped on the blues train at this time, electric blues with Clappo, Savoy Brown, Peter Green, Alan Bown. Then into prog rock and the rest is history!
I was also a member of my local folk club at this time!!
No problem with singing - just remember the roots and put that same feeling into it.
Incidentally, I think the impetus is back with America now.
Steve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,essex girl
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 05:41 AM

Well I like some blues, just not very knowlegable on the subject. I listen to the old stuff but really like Spikedrivers & Kent Duchaine.
Maybe Guest I DON'T KNOW will see this thread & do a blues quiz,or someone else as this would be a good way to find out how much we really know, or do you only want threads to talk about what we all do in the playing/singing/writing of...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 05:57 AM

Will....thanks! That's gone onto my birthday list now. Hope someone gets it for me!


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 06:04 AM

Well a lot of talk, here's an example. Leadbelly, the king of the 12-string, helpfully defining the blues, singing them, and playing a mean walking bass at the same time
Good Morning Blues


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 06:09 AM

Here's your really quintessential 24-carat old delta blues, the extremely wonderful Son House telling it like it was
Death Letter Blues


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 08:45 AM

Good stuff Greg. I'll see your Son House and raise you a Reverend Gary Davis... :-)

Rev. Gary Davis plays "Slow Drag / Cincinnati Flow Rag"

This is just how I remember him from 1964.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 08:57 AM

"Death Letter" has become a staple in just about every blues bands song list... I like to open a set with either it or another Son House song, "Preachin' Blues" which is somewhat less known... But only somewhat... BTW, Jack White and the White Stripes does a great version of "Death Letter"...

As for some lesser known (at least to folks not all that familiar with the blues) artists that are definately worth as listen are: Johnny Shines who knew and performed with Robert Johnson, the great James "Son" Thomas who can thump out that Delta groove like no other, the infamous and mysterious Dan Pickitt, a white guy, who recorded some fine stuff in the late 40s, Arthur Crudupp, Bukka White, of course the great Howlin' Wolf from Westpoint, Ms., The late R.L. Burnside, Jessie Mae Hemphill (bless her heart) who recorded on some primitive instruments as well as guitars, Lightnin' "Nuthin' But the Devil" Slim, Little "Blues With a Feelin'" Walter Jacobs and another Slim, Slim "King Bee" Harpo...

And that's just scratchin' the surface...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:26 AM

Somebody asks me to tell the blues people that I listen too. The list would be too long but from the earliest Trixie Smith through some of the other "Classic" Blues women, the country blues of Tommy Johnson, Blind Lemon etc virtually everyone upto and including Buddy Guy. The Caucasian (is that a PC word these days?)copyists do not appeal to me at all. As Muddy Waters once told a young white guy and I paraphrase here "You can sure play it like me but no way can you sing it". Nuff said.
If you really want to know and explore the Blues there are so many books that have been written on the subject that you should be able to go to your local library and get educated. Failing this there are the used book sites on-line. If you want names of Authors try Paul Oliver, Peter Guralnick, Gale Dean Wardlow, Robert Gordon (on Muddy),
Samuel Charters , Marc Hoffman (on Howling Wolf), Giles Oakley, Bruce Bastin (on the Piedmont bluesmen)and Alan Lomax's "The Land Where the Blues Began". And that is just for starters.

Maeve I am sorry to hear of your great loss you must be devastated.
I sincerely hope that your lot improves very soon.

Good listening

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:34 AM

"Fir beginners it just a 1-4-5 progression..."

How could a beginner understand 'a 1-4-5 progression' without some instruction, from a book, teacher or friend, in scales and harmony?

Sure, most blues musicians couldn't sit down and play a piece of piano music if you put it in front of them. I can't either. But I know the theory, I understand the melody line, and I improvise. Just like blues musicians.

The heart of the blues is the blue note, an unexpected minor third. To get that, you need to know what scale you are in, what the third is, and where the half-step is. It's not a complicated idea, but it doesn't come out of the subconscious either.

A couple weeks ago I found a song published in 1612 with a blue note in it.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Boho
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:34 AM

Skip James - pure genius.

Devil Got My Woman

Well worth a watch:

Scorsese blues films

History of the blues book:

The Devil's Music


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:45 AM

Well, if ya' have heard the blues, leenia, then ya' kinda know what it's 'sposed to sound like... Now traditional blues is generally in 1-4-5... The 1 chord is where you wnat to sing the song... Let's say that is in G major... So the G chord becomes yer 1 chord... Then you just start counting down from G (ABCDEFGABCDEFG) which makes the 4 chord a C and the 5 chord a D... Song in A??? Then it's A-D-E...

Now that is basic beginners blues... That will get anyone started at least from the perspective of what chord is next...

Once that is imprinted then there are lots of variations like 4-1-4-1-5-4-1 which is how "Catfish Blues", "King Bee", "Hoochie Coochie Man", etc... Doesn't really matter what key you play it in the progression will remain the same... That the nice thing about the blues is that once you get it you can bounce around with various keys in finding where yer voice best works...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:52 AM

Cross posted, Boho...

Yeah, Skip James was in his own league... Recorded some of the eeriest songs ever that folks still arguing over... Like "Hard Time Killin' Floor"... BTW, I do that one in a Double Dropped D but it ain't a song that you can play to just any crowd...

The Scorese series is absolutely priceless...

BTW, lotta folks have mentioned Alan Lomax and some folks might be goin'. "Who is he???"... Well he did thousands of field recordings which are now in the Library of Congress... He not only recorded well known folks like Muddy Waters but also hundreds of folks who even lotta blues folks have never heard of... He was able to record on plantations, juke joints and even the penitenturies... Some fine stuff...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:54 AM

"The heart of the blues is the blue note, an unexpected minor third. To get that, you need to know what scale you are in, what the third is, and where the half-step is. It's not a complicated idea, but it doesn't come out of the subconscious either."

Wrong. It's more or a less a pure major third, which comes naturally unless you've had it trained out of you by teachers obsessed with equal temperament.

As for 1-4-5 progressions, again they come quite naturally to the ear without training.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:59 AM

Let's not forget the flattened 7th...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:04 AM

Leeneia

I trust that you will agree with me that the blues started out as folk music and to a certain extent it still is. Like much other folk music it doesn't obey the written rules imposed upon music by the European classical players. How for instance do you write down and read off the paper a B B King solo with all those squeezed bent notes and play it just like him? Or write down, read and play a harmonica
tune by Rice Miller or Sonny Terry etc etc. So, I am still interested to know which bluesmen you know played from written music. I have never knowingly met one.

There is a well known quote which I can't remember the origin of but a well known musician was once asked if he read music and his reply was "not enough to hurt me".

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:25 AM

There are some good modern developments in blues - musicians who build on the legacy of the past but take the music forward in different ways. I've been a big fan of Little Axe, for example, ever since his first album appeared around 1990. And then there's the blues collective, Pig In A Can...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:59 AM

Bobert: As for some lesser known (at least to folks not all that familiar with the blues) artists that are definately worth as listen are: Johnny Shines who knew and performed with Robert Johnson, the great James "Son" Thomas who can thump out that Delta groove like no other, the infamous and mysterious Dan Pickitt, a white guy, who recorded some fine stuff in the late 40s, Arthur Crudupp, Bukka White, of course the great Howlin' Wolf from Westpoint, Ms., The late R.L. Burnside, Jessie Mae Hemphill (bless her heart) who recorded on some primitive instruments as well as guitars, Lightnin' "Nuthin' But the Devil" Slim, Little "Blues With a Feelin'" Walter Jacobs and another Slim, Slim "King Bee" Harpo

Thanks! apart from Robert Johnson and Howlin' Wolf, the others you listed are all new to me. I guess there's a few hours of listening coming up!

PLUS....My "GUITAR TECHNIQUES" magazine came today, and guess what?....the issue's mainly devoted to the blues guitar with stories, riffs and licks from old Mississippi Delta bluesmen right up to some of the modern exponents. Something to keep me going for a while!


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 05:41 PM

How about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG8x9lidTA0


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 05:47 PM

Lets have a bit more blues mandolin:

Mailman Blues

Sugar Farm Blues

How about some blues banjo:

Sugar Baby

Rollin and tumblin

A bit of oud?

Bamako blues

Oh - go on then - a bit of guitar:

Death come creepin

G'night all

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 05:51 PM

Well, fir those of you who like/love Robert Johnson, you will like/love Johnny Shines even more... I don't know why he doesn't get more recognition... He, IMO, is equal to or even ebtter that Robert on alot of his stuff and plays purdy much the exact same style... It's almost as if they both learned from the same teacher... One of the best blues songs is one he wrote called "Jim String"... Ya'll listen to that song/story... Man, geese oh pete... This is the real blues...

And the late Jessie Mae Hemphill, who lived outside Como. Ms., is a real treat... Lotta that one chord north Mississippi groove... On a some of here songs she plays a one string diddlybow... Very cool...

Hey, and I'm just braggin' on the folks who play that Mississippi style blues... There's an entire different style blues... More finger pickin' and no bottleneck (slide) played in the Mid_Atalntic region coastal areas they call Piedmont Blues... Lotta real good ones... The late John Jackson... The late John Cephas who played with Phil Wiggins (Cephas in Wiggins)... I knew/know all them guys... Jammed a little with all of them here or there over the years... Then there was Archie Edwards of Washington, D.C.... He had a barbershop up in NE where balus jams occured every Saturday afternoon... He died in '98 but the folks just kept the rent up and continued to jam there every Saturday afternoon until about 2 years ago when they moved the barberchair and everything else to a new location where they continue the weekly jams... I was a reg there for about 7 years and know all them fine players: Elenor Ellis, Mike Baytop before he had his stroke, the late NJ Warren, Miles Spicer... Lotta folks... BTW, lotta folks like Mississippi John Hurt... Hey, he was more a Peidmont style player and he even moved to DC and jamedd at the barbershop and toured Europe with Archie...

Rambling again...

Hey, ya'll... This blues thread might make it to 100!!! That would make this ol' hillbilly proud... Sho nuff would...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 06:10 PM

The earliest blues musicians were professionals who would be called upon to play every type of music, and this in an era before the phonograph and later gramophone became readily available, so it is extremely unlikely that they couldn't read music. If you want a fuller exposition of this, I suggest you read "Escaping the Delta" (Robert Johnson and the Invention of the Blues) by Elijah Ward.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 07:37 PM

Read it, Dave... I found that fact very interesting... Also that when they went to record the folks who owned the recording studios (for lack of a better term as they were real primitive) would tell the black musicans to just play them "race songs"... That what they were called... I think it would have been cool to hear Robert Johnson recording some of the pop songs of the day...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:30 AM

I've often wondered how much black and white musicians would have mixed prior to the rise of the recording industry and "race records".

There seems to be a lot of cross-over in some old-time music, early country etc. I'm thinking of artists such as Doc Boggs, Jimmy Rodgers, even Hank Williams.

Anyone knowledgeable on this?

(I'll probably buy Escaping the Delta too but just wondering what folks here thought)

Pete.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:11 AM

Leeneia,

If you believe that that the European Dixieland band that you recently posted are bluesmen then I have to say you are way off beam with the subject under discussion. Playing a blues tune or singing a blues song doesn't make you a bluesman/woman.
I can play blues and sometimes sing one or two (in private) but the blues developed in an entirely different cultural world to that in which I live. Anyone brought up outside that culture that believes he can perform convincingly in this idiom is kidding him/herself. OK there are some good copyists but that's what they remain copyists.
They can be excellent entertainers but it ain't the real thing.
I suggest that you take a look at the you tube clips of people like Sleepy John Estes, Son House, Muddy Waters etc and see if you can spot the difference between what they are doing and what that European Dixieland band are doing.

Regarding the early bluesmen being professional so must therefore have been able to read music posted somewhere above. Have you never heard of the aural tradition or "Ear Musicians" as Woody Guthrie described them. That is the method by which most "folk" performers in any idiom use. If you want to compare a couple of blues performers playing "pop" songs of the time might I suggest you listen to Charlie Patton's "Running Wild" or Skip James version of "So Tired".

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:43 AM

Hoot: I'm just starting to get to grips with this vast subject.

I'll be working my way through the old blues players that Bobert's been listing, but I'm also interested in more contemporary players. Some of these were mentioned in my latest "Guitar Techniques" mag, with coincidentally has as its major theme this month "acoustic blues guitar".

So your comment about what makes a "real" bluesman is interesting. I'd be interested to know if you consider someone like Kelly Joe Phelps to be a "real" bluesman:

Kelly Joe Phelps

He wasn't brought up in "the culture" and moved over to blues from jazz guitar, so by the criteria you outline, he's a "copyist". Am I reading you properly?

And if that's too straightforward, what about Eric Bibb? A native New Yorker, he's not been "brought up in the culture" of the south or the delta. Does he qualify as a "copyist":

Eric Bibb


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: cooperman
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 06:51 AM

Yes Pete - music has been a great help in bringing together people of different race.
When I sing a blues song I am not trying to sound like anyone but myself. It's different but that doesn't mean it's not valid as a form of blues. Blues has evolved into many different styles and sounds now.
I'm never going to sound like those early black guys. If we are saying that true blues can only come from that same culture and have that same sound we are consigning it to history.
I like to think that blues music in all it's forms has a great future.
Anyone who plays / sings a blues song is copying to some degree. It's the feeling you put into it that counts.
BB King plays electric guitar and that must have been pretty revolutionary at one time. What feeling he puts into it though. Still one of the very best IMHO.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:10 AM

Me too Steve. I saw a quote from (I think) John Lee Hooker who when asked how to play like him replied "you ain't me - you you" which I've always taken to mean put your own slant on it. I've been through the guitar tab "note for note" approach as I'm sure many others have and I've never been happier playing until I threw it away and just started to do my own thing.

I agree we're all copyists to some degree. That goes for so many folk genres though - for example how many non-Irish love Irish trad, how many shanty singers have sailed etc etc etc. Personally I don't have a problem with it at all.

Hoot - just to add to Rob's query above, do you regard Doc Boggs as a real bluesman?

Country Blues

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:17 AM

Lots of good points there, cooperman. I myself never sing what I call "deep" blues (Delta, etc.) because I don't feel that I can bring any of the feeling and depth to it that it needs - I'm white, English, etc. However, as I said further up the thread, the blues as a musical form is very welcoming and hospitable, and I love playing it. I also feel more comfortable with what you might call the "vaudeville/jazz" edges of the blues spectrum - jug band music, Jelly Roll Morton stuff like "Winin' Boy" and "Buddy Bolden's Blues" - and also some of the lighter, Piedmont-style music from, say, John Hurt or Etta Blake, Libba Cotten, etc. This stuff says to me: "Play me!"


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:57 AM

To be brief and to the point, from the clip you posted Kelly Joe Phelps if he plays and sings blues is a copyist.

Eric Bibb is a young copyist, he is the son of Leon Bibb who came out of the "Folk Scare" of the 1960's which differs somewhat to the background from which the music developed

Nothing wrong with either of these guys but they are far removed from the intense emotional style of singing that comes out in most of the blues.

Doc Boggs a bluesman? No way. He was an excellent singer and banjo player from the Appalachians around Norton, Virginia who's singing and playing was influenced by hearing the music of the black workers
that he encountered in the mountains.

Re Will Fly's posting I agree entirely that the music of the songsters John Hurt, Etta Baker (not Blake Will, slip of the finger)and Elizabeth Cotten says "Play Me". I play some of their material quite happily and do so even in public at times. Unfortunately I still can't get "Wilson Rag" as smoothly as I would like.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:01 AM

Etta Baker - indeed a slip of the finger! Too much Blind Blake on my mind... :-)


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:09 AM

Can't quite agree 100% with Hoot on the assertion that you have to be "brought up" within' the culture to play the blues convincingly unless "brought up" means having learned from folks who were "brought up" (raised , reared, etc.) in the blues community...

I mean, yeah, if you just close yer eyes and listen to Kelly Joe Phelps, 'or Rory Gallagher, or Richard Johnston, or Ben Prestage, they are every bit as "convincing" as their contempory blues players who were "brought up" in the culture...

Heck, I played nuthin' but country and folk until the 90s and then emmersed myself in the blues.... I got the basics from Sparky Rucker and then made several trips to Mississippi with people who took me to back road picnics where people played all kinds of blues... All the while I was getting up every Saturady mornin' and driving 2 hours to NE Washington, D.C. to participate in the weekly Saturday afternoon jam session at Archie Edwards Barbershop where I listened very carefully and worked every hard at playin' and singin' like the older (mostly black) bluesmen that wold frequent the jams...

I will have to admit that I also was a jail house teacher and worked in a drug rehab program in Richmond so I had picked up black dialect and I'm sure that has served me well...

So, yeah, I would agree that one does have to emmerse one's self into a culture but not necessarially be "brought up" within that culture...

B~

p.s. Hey... For everyone here on this thtead just a big ol shout out to ya'll 'cause to the best of my knowledge, I don't think a blues thread ever got close to a hunnert posts!!! This is a milestone...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:11 AM

BTW, if Kelly Joe is copying someone I'd be interested in knowin' who... I got hundreds of blues players I routinely listen to and can't think of anyone that has Kelly Joe's style??? Or vice versa...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:47 AM

I've just been listening to Kelly Joe Phelps singing "Train Carried My Girl Away" (from the album "Shine Eyed Mister Zen". Great slide and fingerpicking style - taken from several influences, I'd say - backing a soulful and obviously white voice. If it's not pure blues in the sense that Hoot is alluding to, it's certainly got the mantle of the blues wrapped firmly around it. I think blues can accommodate KJP with no problem...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:10 AM

Well, seems that we used to have this smae discussion at the barbershop... The style of blues played there is primarially in the Piedmont style (John Hurt, John Jackson, Elenor Ellis, Cephas & Wiggins, etc) and especially my last couple years playin' there I was growing more and more in north Mississippi hill country groove and the folks knew it... Yeah, I could jam on the Peidmont stuff but felt less and less like leading songs in that style... There were several players who enjoyed my Mississippi style and would ask me to lead songs in that style even though alot of the folks didn't have a clue and wouls sit those songs out...

The point is that, seein' as we always seemed to have new people, the discussion about what constitutes the blues and what doesn't would come up over and over... The oldtimers would say it's all blues and therefore it was all good...

Does taht mean that I think that Kelly Joe sounds like Bukka White or Arthur Crudupp??? No... Nor did Skip James of Blind Lemon sound like them... But there is a soulfullness to Kelly Joe that is as "believable" as the soulfullness of Skip James of Blind Lemon...

I mean, good blues not only tells a story but the meduim is very much a part of the message... I mean, yeah, Eric Bibb and Corey Harris and Guy Davis all grew up in upper middle class families far away from the culture of the plantation and far away from those influences yet all have convincingly blues sound...

So, yeah, I think that the blues can be learned and not only learned but folks can carve out their own sounds within the genure as Eric, Corey and Guy, among many other have done...

Jus MO, of course...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:20 AM

I reckon Bobert has just said it better than I can, but here's what I've been thinking while he was posting that last gem:

I haven't much to say, yet I am reading, listening, and thinking hard. Thanks to all for the thoughtful discussion going on here.

Bobert talks of immersing himself in the music and culture of the people, and that dedication leads to an inner understanding that informs his renditions of Blues or any other kind of music. What matters is that he has respect for the people and music and he uses his understanding and skill to add to the pool of interpretations. That's not copying; that's being a skilled and aware musician.

Whatever I sing, it will sound like me. No matter if it's an old Scots ballad or something from Etta Baker, or something of my own, it will sound like me. My interpretations will carry themselves with fidelity when I have successfully immersed myself in the music and people of whatever tradition in which I'm working and when I have sung and played the songs and tunes until they are part of my own life's experiences and musical dialects. It's that sense of fidelity and understanding I'm aiming for.

m


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:27 AM

Coincidentally, I've been re-reading two books about The Band - Levon Helm's "This Wheel's On Fire", and "Across The Great Divide" by Barney Hoskins - and they both describe Levon's early years in Turkey Scratch (what a great name!), near Helena, in Arkansas. In spite of efforts by the KKK to intimidate people in the area, there was a lot of shared community life on the part of black and white farmers. Kids like Levon grew up listening to a wide variety of styles from local blues musicians, such as Sonny Boy Williamson II and Robert Lockwood Jr., to the Grand Ole Opry on the radio, and seeing travelling shows such as F.S. Wolcott's Original Rabbit's Foot Minstrels.

Like the country string bands at the turn of the century and in the 1920s and 1930s, there was a lot of racial, musical crossover, though I doubt that any white person - even one who was poor and down-and-out - had to cope with the opprobrium that was heaped on those with a black skin. And it was that latter factor which gave the deep blues its identity.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:42 AM

"Well, fir those of you who like/love Robert Johnson, you will like/love Johnny Shines even more... I don't know why he doesn't get more recognition... He, IMO, is equal to or even ebtter that Robert on alot of his stuff and plays purdy much the exact same style... It's almost as if they both learned from the same teacher... One of the best blues songs is one he wrote called "Jim String"... Ya'll listen to that song/story... Man, geese oh pete... This is the real blues..."

Not from the same teacher but from the man himself. Shines traveled all over America for 2 years in the 30's and learned from him. He is said to be one of only two bluesman that Robert taught to play his style, the other being Robert Lockwood Jr.

"There seems to be a lot of cross-over in some old-time music, early country etc. I'm thinking of artists such as Doc Boggs, Jimmy Rodgers, even Hank Williams."

I don't know much about Doc Boggs but Rodgers and Williams are both said to have had early contact with black players. Rodgers as a brakeman on the railroad running between Meridian, Ms. and New Orleans and Hank as a shoeshine boy on the streets of Montgomery, Al. And speaking of cross-over "Sitting on Top of the World" has been covered by numerous Blues, Folk and Country musicians but here is the original
:The Mississippi Sheiks.
If you listened to the link Burton provided up thread to Crooked Still doing "Come on in My Kitchen" you'll notice that Robert Johnson used this tune for that song.

Unless more people have posted while I've been typing and making links this is post #97. Looks like we might make Bobert's day, Catters.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:47 AM

You've just done 98, Neil - this is 99 - and I reckon we should let Bobert celebrate 100!

Woke up this mornin...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,CAP
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:09 AM

Try Brooks Williams Baby O album. Blues as well as folk.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:41 AM

Come on in my kitchen, Sitting on top of the world, and also It Hurts Me Too

That melody keeps coming up!

All good stuff...

Pete.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:02 AM

Bobert must be having a kitchen party at his kinfolks' house.

Here's an opportunity for anyone in the area A pair of songwriting and guitar workshops in Ohio and Massachusetts:

http://smither.com/workshops-with-chris/
"There is still room available in two upcoming guitar & songwriting workshops Chris will be conducting:

Fur Peace Ranch (Darwin, OH) – October 8-11, 2010

The Mighty Albert (Ashfield, MA) – January 14-17, 2011 (Just announced!)"


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:35 AM

many Chris Smither YouTube videos and interviews

including:
Chris Smither "Statesboro Blues" http://ckuik.com/Chris_Smither

then there are some good cuts here:

http://www.myspace.com/chrissmither


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:40 AM

I think Hootenanny is missing the point. The Patton and James tracks she mentions come from quite a lot later, and if you really want something interesting, try John Lee Hooker's take on "I Left My Heart in San Francisco". A lot of it can be traced back to John Hammond's presentation of Big Bill Broonzy at the "Spirituals to Swing" concert, when despite the fact that Broonzy had been resident in Chicago for years and normally wore flash suits, Hammond got him to dress in overalls and be anounced as coming straight from his farm in Arkansas! The Bluesman as noble savage!

As I said, read Wald's book.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bettynh
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:27 PM

I'm a bit confused reading this. I keep flashing back to this scene: I'm in the midst of crying-twins madness. It's February, dusk, and ONE of them won't sleep. In the manner of
Rosalee Sorrels, I pick him up firmly and rock him to the music I'm playing on the stereo - Texas work songs. Rocking him and stomping around the room I sing along "O Grizzely, Grizzely Bear, O Grizzely, Grizzely Bear..." It works like a charm. So - can you honestly state that I couldn't feel the blues then? Can you deny that my son was immersed in this music from infancy? The music was recorded, but I chose it.

Doc Watson tells about having a windup victrola and listening to blues records when he was 5 or 6 years old (that would be 1928-9). Is he a "copyist," then? If so, then just about anyone who played after about 1925 risks that label.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 03:29 PM

Bettynh,

Am I to assume from yor posting that you would describe Doc Watson as a blues singer? I don't think he makes that claim.

Dave what point am I missing? Patton and James are quite a lot later than what?

Re Elijah Wald I have read his work and enjoyed doing so but I have also read most others that have been published over many years. However my knowledge of blues music and musicians doesn't only come from books.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bettynh
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:39 PM

Doc Watson describes himself as "just this guy, you know?" I think he's a skilled blues singer and player. Certainly you can't argue his skill, so what keeps him from being a blues singer? The color of his skin?
Milk Cow Blues

Anyway, we can't ask Robert Johnson if he listened to other blues singers. Doc is of his generation.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:51 PM

Well, gol danged!!!

I come home after drivin' Ms. Dasiy an' the grandyoungin' all over DC and here there are 106 posts to this blues thread!!!

Thank you all... If I go on tonight I will go on in peace... Sho nuff will...

BTW ya'll... Any of you within' driving distance of Luray, Va. I'll be promotin' a juke night at the Performing Arts Center some time this coming winter... I think it will be the last wewek in January and I will have not one but two bands that will be performing the following week at the International Blues Challenge (IBC) in Memphis the following week: The Bush League representing the James River Blues Society and Clarence "The Blueman" Turner and his band representing the Baltimore Blues Society... Rounding out the entertainment will be solo bluesman Pops Walker and yers truely "Sidewalk Bob" me playing both solo and with Clarence's band... More later when I firm the dates but will definately be a nice mix of styles and sound...

Thanks again fir ya'll helping us get to 100...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:50 PM

"Patton and James are quite a lot later than what?"

The origins of the blues of course.

Would you describe Bessie Smith as a blues singer? How about Jelly Roll Morton? Blind Blake?

What about the Hammond effect?


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:58 PM

Bettynh

I do know what Doc Watson can do thankyou having seen him live on many occasions since just after Ralph Rinzler convinced him to start touring. Of course he is an amazing musician no doubt about that and he can sing blues, but so can I after a fashion but that Doesn't make me a blues musician, it would make me someone that sometimes sings or plays a blues. You ask what keeps Doc from being a blues singer. Well if you have ever been in Doc's neck of the woods and also spent time in Robinsonville, Mississippi (as you mention Robert Johnson) It would be pretty obvious that the environment and culture is entirely different.

Robert Johnson is believed to have been born in May 1911. Doc isn't yet 99.

You say we can't ask Robert Johnson if he listened to other blues singers. Did anyone suggest that he didn't. There is enough recorded evidence that makes it obvious that he did.

Good listening.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: melodeonboy
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 06:02 PM

"Thanks - might write a blues song about computers!
Any suggestions for a title anyone?"

No doubt it'll be released on the Trojan record label, then?! :)


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:36 PM

Shoot, we know that Robert listened to Son House... There's a story of Son playin' some juke and takin' a breal and Robert being like, ahhhh, 14 or 15 and jumpin' up on stage and grabbin' Son's geetar and tryin' to play it and folks havin' to chase him around to get the geetar back off Robert... I mean, ya'll listen to Some of the Alan Lomax tapes and there were literally hundreds of people playin' blues all over Mississppi, Arkansas, Tennesee, Texas, Alabama... LOmax recorded 'um in Georgia, too... But people were playin' it everywhere in the south and mid-atlantic and then folks movin' north to Chicgao fir jobs and to get off the plantations and then they playin' it everywhere...

So Robert had his ears on big time...

Well, melodeonboy... You need to Google up Johnny Winter's "TV Blues"... It's a great song that deal with these new fangled thingies... "If you don't get the picture workin', I'm gonna' do some work on you"... I mean, if you can make a good blues songs outta yer TV not workin' then the pudder can't be that far behind...

Hey, don't look at me... I write "old school"...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:47 PM

Melodeonboy: "Hard Drivin' Blues?"


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Janie
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:50 PM

Some classic female Blues Musicians

Beverly "Guitar" Watkins

Etta Baker

Billie Holiday Strange Fruit

Sister Rosetta Tharpe

Memphis Minnie on Guitar

Memphis Minnie - guitar and vocals


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Janie
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:05 PM

Can't help myself, gotta toss Maria Muldaur, Janis Joplin and Bonnie Raitt into the mix.

Maria

Janis

Bonnie


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:13 PM

How about Big Mama Thorton, Janie???

Rory Block???

Victria Spivey???

Lot more womenz, too...

Melonie Mason??? Oh, she is so hot, too... Gotta give here a call...

Elenor Ellis...

Mary Flowers...

Annie Raines...

Joan Fenton...

Lotta womenz... And all good blues players...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Janie
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:49 PM

Bobert,

Thanks. That why I'm here, to learn. Feel free to post some links, you lazy-a$$ed bluesman, before I have time to run them down and post them myself. (And why do ladies sing the blues;^)


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:05 PM

Well, Janie... You know that I ain't no lazy-ass bluesman... Just technically challenged...

All I can do is put 'um out there an' if folks can do them blue clickies then that's great... I do 'um if I knew how...

Guess I am a retarded bluesman...

(You can't say that, Boberdz...)

What I say???

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Boho
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:56 PM

September issue of Acoustic Guitar magazine is also a blues special, with tab for an arrangement of Going Down the Road Feelin' Bad based on Etta Baker in C and E with standard tuning, and Skip James's Devil Got My Woman in open Dm, along with a whole load more Skip James licks n tricks. In about a year or so I might have GDtRFB under control - so far I can't even play the first bar without my whole hand seizing up.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Janie
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:15 PM

Big Momma Thornton

Rory Block (first impression is I like her guitar work a lot and not so crazy about her vocals.)

Victoria Spivey

Melanie Mason Again, she sounds technically good in terms of the guitar, but to my ear, ruled entirely by visceral response, both the guitar and the voice lack authentic emotional expression.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 07:02 AM

Yes, yes, I know she was a gospel singer, but just listen to that guitar and the blues in her voice...

Sister Rosetta Tharpe


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 07:07 AM

By the way, for those who don't know this, it was recorded around 1964 at a disused railway platform near Manchester in England, part of a blues tour that rocked this country.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 09:05 AM

Yeah, that is some hot blues, W-Fly...

Okay, Janie.... Melonie's voice does leave a little bit to be desired but I'm kinda partial to her 'cause seems every time I have run into her she remembers me... It's kinda a long story but its all good...

Rory Block knew Son House and learned quite a bit of her geetar licks off him...

Big Mama Thornton, BTW, recorded "Hound Dog" long before Elvis's '56 recording but then again Elvis knew alot about them old blues folks and wasn't shy about lifting songs... Remember "Mystery Train"??? Good example of a song Elvis borrowed...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 09:10 AM

Hey Will
I remember that tour, all the team came down to the Roundhouse in Wardour Street one evening when Cyril Davies was running the blues and barrelhouse club there. I made the acquaintance of Cousin Joe that evening and he was very wary when I bought him a whisky - and no I wasn't playing the part of a boring JMF (Jazz Mans Friend) as George Webb used call such people. It was Joe's first trip to the UK and understandably might be feeling a little less relaxed. However when I met him again in New Orleans and on his return visits to Europe he was a different man. Life and soul of any gathering. What days they were with regular visits by so many greats, Muddy upsetting the jazzers with his amplified Guitar and Spann's miced(?) up piano and on his next trip playing acoustic guitar and not understanding why the by-then younger blues fanatics were less than enthusiastic.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Janie
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 09:20 AM

Oh Yes, Will Fly.

Another of the gospel/blues greats, imo,


Mavis Staples


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Janie
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 09:33 AM

Mavis sings Stephen Foster

What are Blues?


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bettynh
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 09:33 AM

I dunno, Hoot. Doc was born in 1923. Both were came from southern rural backgrounds, albeit very different areas. That's still within one generation for me. The important thing for me was realizing that rural wasn't isolated anymore, even in the late 20s. Anyhow, I'm most upset at the idea that the blues have to be fossilized to be real.

Does this qualify as blues? He certainly uses a blues scale and writes from pain.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 09:39 AM

It was a great tour, Hoot, wasn't it? I remember seeing Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee at a club in Blackburn. Sonny was feeling tired after the gig and a mate of mine walked him home to his hotel. Brownie went with a load of us to a party after the club gig and played into the samll hours, fortified by scotch. What a night.

I also remember seeing Memphis Slim at Leeds University, rocking the evening away, and recall quite a few sessions when Champion Jack Duprée rolled out his barrelhouse blues at some forgotten pub in the East End of London.

I never got to see Cyril before he died, but I have some treasured recordings of the All Stars which I still enjoy. "Country Line Special" and "Chicago Calling" with Cyril on blues harp and vocal, Long John Baldry on backing vocals, Davy Graham in there at some point, Korner, Nicky Hopkin on piano... not bad for white boys, eh? :-)


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 11:26 AM

Will,
Cyril was one English guy that got pretty close to that authentic sound and feel. Thursday nights at the Marquee in Oxford Street used to really steam. I knew Long John for a number of years and Cyril for the last two years or so that he was with us. Loaned me his 9 string guitar for a few weeks to try out and I also got a chance to pick his custom made 12 string with the gold plated fittings back stage one night when we got him a big gig at the Royal Albert Hall along with Peter, Paul and Mary and Ramblin Jack and others. I remember when Sleepy John Estes was "re-discovered" discussing it with Cyril. He said it couldn't be because Big Bill Broonzy had told Cyril that Estes was dead. Sadly Cyril was dead himself before Estes came over to Europe. Cyril went just as the blues boom was taking off in the UK and he missed visits by so many of his heroes. If he had still been around it would have been the Cyril Davies Allstars backing Little Walter at is first UK gig at the Marquee instead of John Baldry and the later version of almost the same band.
Sorry if I am rambling but it was a great scene and now virtually all the giants of the blues have gone. C'est la vie.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: leeneia2
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 09:19 PM

thanks for all the links. (today's too busy for me to follow them)

here's a link to a polished piano blues piece, a kind that may not have been mentioned before:

bill e's site


When you get there, click on 'Dallas Blues' to hear a fine piece from 1912. If it says there's not enough memory, right click. That's what I have to do.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 09:34 PM

Well, I love Mavis and I;m sure that most folks who appreciate good blues loves her music... It ain't exactly blues... Kinda gospelly...

Whitmore??? Also not to bluesy... That's what we call a mountain "moan"... Speed it up a tad and kick the bnajo into high gear an' he's ready for Galax or Floydfest...

Nice reading about Cyril Davies... Some good memories there...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Max
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 10:40 PM

Hosting The Blues on WPSU FM at 10pm EST. Tune in online at http://wpsu.org/blues. Also hanging out in mudchat. More blues, yes.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 11:37 PM

I was just coming in to post a link in here, Max. Great show, plenty of blues, tonight!!


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 07:18 AM

Leeneia,

If you enjoyed that piece then you might like to read more about it in a recent book "Long Lost Blues" Popular Blues in America, 1850 - 1920. University of Illinois Press.

The tune itself is very well known and well used. The performance is pleasant enough but I find the execution a bit stilted and what I would expect from a pianist playing from written music. For me it is too damn polite, he should loosen up and put some drive and feeling into it.
An excellent performer and only one among many blues piano players was Little Brother Montgomery from Kentwood, Louisiana. Try and hear some of his recordings made for the Bluebird label just as I am doing at present. Then of course there is Big Maceo Merriwether, Otis Spann, Will Ezell and dozens more.

Enjoy

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 08:40 AM

Yeahm show me a piono player who has no need fir written music, thank you...

Like Ann Rabson or AnnieBlues (plays on several Cephas & Wiggins recordings) or Barrelhouse Bonnie... BTW, had the pleasure of having Ann Rabson sittin' on a a short set I did at the IceHouse Pub in Elkins, Wes Va. a few years back... Very nice...

Yo, Max... I'm workin' on gettin' a new service provider that will allow me to actaully have 'nuff juice to listen to internet radio... Glad to hear from ya'...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 03:50 PM

custom made 12 string with the gold plated fittings

That doesn't sound very blues to me...

Wild about you baby

Cut my wings

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 08:19 PM

Now that, ya'll, is the real blues... I mean, Hound Dog Taylor and Seasick Steve are a couple of the finest Mississippi groove players since the likes of Fred McDowell... Whew... That "Cut My Wings" with Steve poundin' away on that cardboard stomp-box is the *shits*... Ya'll like that you would have loved the lated Wille King... And you'd love the still-very-much-alive Ben Prestage... Google him up and have up a treat... And if Ben don't hook ya' then Googl;e up Richard Johnston... Between Seasick Steve, Willie Kind, Ben and Richard if they don't make believers outta you then ya'll need need to call the undertakewr to come fir ya, ya hear???

Thanks Burton fir sharin' those two priceless links and...

...gimme back my wig... lol... Jus' funnin...

Sheet fire, ya'll!!! I mean this is the blues...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 01:46 PM

Here are some more great female Blues singers, maybe over-obvious choices but if you're just learning about the Blues, essential. For some reason when I tried to post 3 links in one thread it won't post so I'm going to try 3 posts in succession. These tracks are each notable for some pretty well known musicians accompanying the ladies.

Ma Rainey


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 01:49 PM

Bessie Smith


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 01:55 PM

Koko Taylor


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 08:15 PM

Yeah, 3 more fine ladies who also put out some fine blues... Big Koko Taylor fan here...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 08:19 PM

Great links and discussion; thanks, everyone.

maeve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 05:04 AM

Well I've listened to a fair number of the people noted on this thread now, and I have to say that I reckon Hoot's definition of what constitutes a "true" blues player/ singer and a "copyist" is, IMO, unnecessarily narrow.

Although I'm sure there's still poverty, racism and pain in the southern rural culture, I don't think that it can be the same level of nose-grinding poverty and constant overt racism that applied when the blues originally emerged. So by Hoot's criterion, as the culture has evolved somewhat, there can be no more (or very few) "true" blues artistes and the vast majority of current musicians playing blues *must* be "copyists" as they "haven't lived the culture".

I can't agree with that. It seems to be a similar backward-looking philosophy that some of the more conservative "folkies" on here espouse and would imply pickling the genre in aspic. Just to take one example: I've listened to a whole bunch of Eric Bibb's stuff now and I can't believe anyone would categorise him as a "copyist" despite his relatively privileged New York background.

Or maybe I just don't "get it" yet and need to listen to a whole bunch more stuff, when it'll suddenly become clear to me?


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: buddhuu
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 05:49 AM

Hey.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Green Man
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 07:19 AM

Got into blues in the 60's and it kind of stayed with me through being in a rock band, the army and after the army getting into folk. Its been a long road but when it comes down to it if the the music speaks to you, and you play it then you have what it takes. If your music speaks to others then you are blessed.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 08:07 AM

Rob Naylor
"Although I'm sure there's still poverty, racism and pain in the southern rural culture, I don't think that it can be the same level of nose-grinding poverty and constant overt racism that applied when the blues originally emerged. So by Hoot's criterion, as the culture has evolved somewhat, there can be no more (or very few) "true" blues artistes and the vast majority of current musicians playing blues *must* be "copyists" as they "haven't lived the culture"."

So we disagree on width of definition. Conditions are somewhat improved but I believe that the people growing up under the current somewhat improved conditions chose to express themselves with "Rap". The most recent time that I was in Mississippi with two surviving blues musicians ther had been a recent Rap Festival which drew many thousands of people when the surviving juke joint probably housed a couple of dozen folks.

If you have ever been to Mississippi for instance you would soon discover just how much poverty still exists. But I've seen it in Chicago and Detroit too.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 08:58 AM

Well, when I happened on a blues website about 8 years ago this same disagreement was rampant... Some of the folks there were decidedly into "pre-war blues" meaning the folks who played and recorded their work before WW II... At the time I thought that was a very barrow definition and I still do...

Like I have said, I consider myself to be a "bluesman"... Yeah, I have copied others but I also have a wealth of other musical experiences which I have blended into my sound... I believe that I put out a sound that is unique... I also think that Eric Bibb has a unique sound... As do Carey Harris and Guy Davis, a couple other folks who were brought up in middle to upper middle class families...

I think it really comes down to the commitment level folks... I beleive I have made alot of the correct choices... I mean, I've been on three major pilgrimages to northern Mississippi and played with the Burnsides, the Kimbros, and listened and watched and soaked in everything around me... Teaching GED in the Richmond City jail where I was abpout the only white face, working at a drug rehab half-wat house where I was also about the only white face and living in rural areas around Richmond where agin I was about the only white face exposed me to alot of African American dialect and culture which I also soaked in...

I doono what else I could have done along the way to better prepare me to say "I'm a bluesman"... I mean, we all have trials and tribulations to draw emotions from... We've all had that one relationship go bad 'er that best buddy to be killed in Vietnam or in a car accident... That ain't somethin' exclusively for black plantation workers...

But, hey, that's just MO which one can take and a buck nine and get a 12 ounce cup of coffee at the MiniMart... lol...

BTW, ya'll... That Seasick Steve is one fine north Mississippi bluesman fir someone who didn't grow up on a plantation working "5 1/2 days a week (uless it rained)" (John Lee Hooker)...

BTW, Part 2... If anyone can find a clip of Ben Prestage and put a link to him I think that folks would really enjoy his stuff... I've known him for several years now and was forunate to be able to book him for a little concert series I co-coordiante in Luray when he was coming thru last summer... Great bluesman/msucian...

Opps... Ran over my time limit... Gotta go get on my tractor and play "plantation worker", i.e. the P-Vine's undergardener... lol...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bettynh
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 09:50 AM

Ben Prestage: Weed


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Neil D
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 11:41 AM

Son House and Mike Bloomfield discussing the Blues


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 12:36 PM

another couple fantastic clips... I love to see anything by Son House... Some folks might not know it but Son was also into preachin'... So that preachin' thing was always with him... I have a VCR tape (what's them???) of him doin' a torured monologue about playing blues on saturday night and then feelin' all this shame come Sunday mornin'... Very conflicted, Son was... Liked his womenz and he liked his whiskey, too...

Gonna get relegion,
goin' join the Baptist church
Gonna get religion
goin' join the Baptist church
Gonna become a Baptist preacher
so I don't have to work...

Thanks fir the clips, ya'll...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 03:16 PM

O.k., couldn't get much comment when I originally posted "Beijing's premier blues and jam band" last fall, and Bobert couldn't see any of it... but it looks like you've finally gotten that faster connection, Bobert??

Try this: Beijing Blues, Woodie Alan ( studio version)

and/or Woodie Alan, Will the Circle Be Unbroken, Xiamen Beach Fest

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bettynh
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 04:13 PM

I got to thinking about how I know what I do about the blues, and thanks to youtube, some of the answer is here . I know, those are suits and Lenny certainly wasn't a bluesman. But he could explain blue notes and syncopation in 1955 and be heard. Not an easy thing to do. He'd just written music for On the Waterfront. West Side Story was 2 or 3 years in the future. If you follow to the other 4 parts of this, it ends in pure mid-fifties jazz. But the first three installments discuss blues even when calling it jazz. The funniest part is his description of the "evolution" of blues into an intellectual persuit and bemoans the fact that "no one dances any more" because it took concentration to listen to what blues had become. Within 10 years, the basic blues would be back in fashion and young people were literally dancing in the streets.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 05:01 PM

Just for you Bobert: The Land Where the Blues Began

Lots more good blues (and other) films on Folkstreams

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 07:29 PM

The Beijing band has it's moments but not exactly my kinda blues...

"The Land Where the Blues Began" is all me... The guy with the red paterned shirt is a yound R.L. Burnside... But this is all about the area of Mississippi where I been to 3 times... I guess if you had to pick a town that was the epicenter of this style of music it's Como, Ms... Ya' hear Fred McDowell and Otha Turner...

BTW, the Lowebow that I play is just a third generation diddybow where you can ganhge the tunin' by moving a metal rod with a capo behind it up or down the neck... This instrument is mezmorizin' because it's pure beat... Mine has 4 strings... One big fat bass and three trebbly ones... They are split in terms of amplification... One pickup for the bass and two fir the trebbly ones... You tune it just about anyway you wnat to match what you are gonna sing and let it rip... I use a slide on mine but alternate with held down strings... I tell ya' what, when you get these things a'goin' they will sho nuff put an audience in a trance... I mean, folks ain't heard this and they is like deer in the headlights...

The "The Land Where the Blues Began" will prolly take the rest of the night to load and I'll give listen to it over the rest of the night but it very much reminds me of my pilgrimages to the "hill country" (ha) of north Mississippi... I'm surprised that soemone didn't mention what the "hill country" is... Ain't no hills there!!! Just as flat as the Delta... Just up about 10-15 feet that become the banks of the Mississippi River when it floods out bad... But real flat... Okay, gotta a few slight hills but we're talkin' slight...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 07:42 PM

89% of Pete's link now loaded... Took just a little over an hour and I'm lookin' at the sky and rain is movin' in so I might not get it all 'cause my pudder comes down from satalite... Think I'll jus' give listen maybe after the puuder goes down... It sho nuff goin' down tomorrow 'cause they callin' fir big rain so if ya'll put links up an' come back an' I ain't said nuthin' then it's 'cause of the storm...

But we need the rain...

BTW, I almost hate to put this guy into the mix but I feel I gotta... Another prodegy that learnt up his blues is "Rev. Slick"... Well, he ain't exactly a reverand but the boy come to Como about 8 years ago after his junior year ibn high school back in NC... Skinny white kid who had some chops and he lived that summer with Mr. Othar (Otha Turner) and got himself educated in the blues and he was out there playin' some fine north Mississippim hill country blues when that gold croos he wore around his neck finally sank in and when that happened he swore off the blues... Kinda like Son House but Son kept goin' back but Rev, Slick (Danuel Ballenger is his real name) just been wlakin' the straight and narrow since then and is playin' gospel music these days... Heck, the boy gotta lotta talent so he can play whatever he wants... Jus' wished he didn't get so caught up in that blues is the devil's music crap 'cause now he's gone from the blues scene...

I doubt anyone gonna find much on him but if ya'll do find a clip, he sho nuff was enetrtainin'...

B~

p.s. Sorry, D-Dancer about the Chinese band... Some parts were better than otyhers... That rat-a-tat drum machine in the background was irritating to me... Jus' play the stuff stright up, I say...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 07:54 PM

I had got into the fringes of Folk and then fell into the Blues thing in early '65 , when I discovered that it was easier to play a twelve bar in E on a cheap D whistle than on a soprano sax ! December '65 the almost blues band I was in was on Television !
A LOT later I saw Gary Davis a The Troubadour (When Long John Baldry was Roadying) - I wuld have loved to have a jam with him , but I dont think R G D had ever met a Blues Whistle player !


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 08:08 PM

I think the Chinese band's story is more interesting then the band itself, probably... people making it how and where they can and the appeal crossing cultures... they do bill themselves as a "blues and jam band".

~ B in T


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 09:09 PM

Well, Becky... The did get into a little jammin' around the 4 minute mark and, hey, it was right decent...

Now I'm about 45 minutes into listenin' to Pete's link... It almost a hour long... Real nice stuff... Little bit of moans, field hollers, dozens, sermons...

Back in the late 60's I was workin' as a community orgainizer and got hooked up with a black Baptist church an' lotta stuff in this link reminds me of stuff I came to really appreciate... I mean, I grew up in the church but not this kinda church... No wonder, them folks just get to church on Sunday mornin' and they still there late into the afternoon... I mean, black folk make church fun... That's what I learned long time ago...

Loving the fife and drum.... I mean, first tiem I heard this in Mississippi I was goin' "What the heck is this?"... Now I know...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 07:52 PM

Fun while it lasted but, alas, seems as if "The Blues" is headin' the wrong way...

You can run, you can run
Tell my friend, Willie Brown
Yeah, you can run, you can run
Tell my friend, Willie Brown
Got these crossroads blues this mornin'
Lord, I'm sinkin' down...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 08:22 PM

Has this been posted yet? I really like it. Robert Johnson "Come On In My Kitchen"


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 04:15 AM

There's been a link of two to versions of that song and it's inspiration upthread (look for Mississippi Sheiks, Crooked Still, and It Hurts me too) but no-one's posted Robert's take on it yet - and for reminding me how good it is, I thank you!

Pete.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 08:25 AM

I've always liked Robert's version better than any of the folks that have covered that song...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Neil D
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 01:06 AM

Otha Turner


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 06:36 AM

Neil D.- Thank you! Otha Turner reminds me of my grandfather, with his loving, practical approach to life. Scenes in the film are so familiar to me- rolling the biscuits with a bottle, making do with what you have, making what you need. They even use a churn like my grandmother's (pulled out of the ashes just a couple of months ago).

I love this family and the music rising out of a hardscrabble life.

maeve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 09:04 AM

Thanks fir the link, Neil...

Mr. Othar, as folks 'round Gravel Springs called him, was someone I was plannin' on meeting on my second pilgrimage to Mississippi but unfortunately I planned that trip for May of that year and Mr. Othar died the February just a day after one of his daughters died...

But I did visit with his peoples while I was there and invited to a "picnic" where I was first introduced to fife and drum music... Also introduced to some forms of dancin' that I really can't talk about but that folks do no matter how old they are... Whew...

Now every August Mr. Othat would roast a goat and have boi ol' picnic and folks would come from every and anywhere to be there and play music and swap stories... Stories are very much part of the north Mississippi hill country music tradition... The people there still hold an anual "Goat Roast" at Mr. Othar's farm and folks still come and carry on the tradition...

More on Mr. Othar later...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 11:36 AM

The Otha Turner link above was to an uncredited video, but there are many more. I checked another one, Otha Turner "King of the Fife", which turned out to be a trailer for "Touch the Blues, a living testimony of Mississippi folklore", a 2010 online "video jukebox" site with 12 short films on Mississippi blues by Scott Jennison.

Jennison says:

"I've been working in television since 1986, with a range of experiences and a lifelong interest in documentary films. Films that explore the origins of our world.

"After years of filming and research concerning the music and traditions of West Africa, I stumbled upon a close remnant, still alive in the United States... The Blues of Mississippi.

"In early 2001, I discovered how few elders of Blues music were still alive, as well as, how quickly and quietly, they were dying. With no outside funding, in an attempt to preserve one of Americas most enduring legacy's, [sic] I traveled to Clarksdale, Mississippi... which is considered Ground Zero for the Blues.

"The resulting personal stories, songs, folklore and words of wisdom (captured during the next 7 years) were worth it all. What a privilege to explore this vast, dynamic world... and get to know some of the kindest people on the planet.

"My life will never be the same... thank you all."

Films featuring: Morgan Freeman [the big name talking head, and nice one if you need one :-) ], Otha Turner, Big Jack Johnson, Sam Carr, Pinetop Perkins, Jessie Mae Hempill, Big Lucky Carter, Blind Mississippi Morris, Snooky Pryor, Luther Dickinson, James "Super Chikan" Johnson, and Terry "Big T" Williams.

So glad you've got the faster connection now, Bobert!

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 12:56 PM

Innaresting. 100+ posts on blues and nobody mentions W. C. Handy


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 01:10 PM

Will you tell us about him, Dick? Who are your favorite Blues musicians?

I reckon many of the folks posting to this thread already know about him, but some of us might not. Here's a start:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynikZ7Zz53E&feature=related


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 01:24 PM

Well, Mr. Othar died in February of 2003 at a ripe age of 94 but the summer before that he opened his home up to a 17 year old geetar picker from eastern Carolina named Daniel Ballenger, alias "Rev Slick"... Now Daniel had allready figured out most everything about playin' a geetar but he hadn't quite figured out "the blues" but a summer of gettin' up at the crack of dawn, doing the farm chores with Mr. Othar and then spendion time ridin' in Mr. Othar's truck the back roads, playing a little music here and there and stoppin' to talk with everyone and learning how to make a fife outta sugar cane that grew wild along the creeks... Well, all this stuff was all that Daniel needed to propell Rev. Slick onto the fast track of becoming the next big bluesplayer...

During my 2003 trip in the "hill country" I hooked up with Daniel for several days and he was kinda like my "guide" and opened alot of doors to meetin' folks, listenin' to and playin' lotta music and gettin' to know some of the folks that Becky mentioned above... Like Jessie Mae and Mississippi Blind Morris and Sam Carr... I also learned alot about Mr. Othar and also Junior Kimbrough, who had a Juniors Juke Joint just outside of Como, Ms... And benieve you me, this ol' hillbilly was soakin' all this stuff in big time...

So, ya'll askin', "Well, I ain't heard of Rev. Slick?" and there is a good reason fir that... Ya' see, Daniel wasn't really a reverand but that didn't seem to be standin' in the way of his spirituality but, like Son House before him...

...the blues were and so Daniel made the choice to not play the blues no more and last I heard he's only playin' gospel and faith music these days... That's too bad 'cuase the boy was defiantely very good... Came in 2nd at the 2004 International Blues Challenge in Memphis outta 120 some bands...

But the point is that in takin' Daniel into his home at age 93 and spending that time with Danail is the real story about what a givin' man Mr. Othar was...

W.C. Handy??? Hmmmmmmmm??? Well, story is that it was Handy who coined the phrase the blues and it's a tribute to him that every year hundreds of blues musicans and enthusiests converge on Memphis for the W.C. Handy awards... One year I went down for the awards but got back into the hill country and didn't come out until it was time to catch my flight home...

BTW, if anyone can find a clip on Jessie Mea playin' diddlybow that would be real interestin'...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 01:46 PM

Bobert, some of the samples on CD Baby might include Jessie Mae Hemphill on diddley bow.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 06:29 PM

Bingo, maeve!!! Cut #12, "Baby Please Don't Go" is Jessie Mae on the diddlybow... Anyone who ain't ever heard one just check it out... Purdy wicked!!!

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 09:10 AM

BTW, before her passing, Jessie Mae sat in on a recording session with Richard Johnston who is well known throughout the Sotuh as a OMB (One Man Band)... The interestin' thing about Jessie Mae's contributions is that she really isn't singin' but talkin' (answering) while Rochard sings the song... This is part of the tradition of hill country blues... The late Fred McDowell frequently had his wife do the same when he recorded... It add's that juke joint feel to the recording...

BTW, part 2... Speakin' of "juke joints"... One one of my trips to Mississippi I was priveledged to go to "WildBill's Juke Joint" in Memphis... Quite an experience... The joint really didn't get cookin' until "after midnight"... Wild Bill was an interesting character and worked the door flawlessly... There was a $5 cover and to look at him work the door you wouldn't think he was payin' attention but he knew everyone that had apid and so if they went out for some air and came back in he knew who had paid...

The Late Sam Carr who was a well known drummer in the Clarksdale area told me that workin' the door back on the "ol' days" was a dangerous job and that all the guys who did it would have a pistol stuck under their belt so that everyone knew it was there... He was also the first person to tell me that when a balck man shot and killed another black man on Saturday night that the Bossman would come get him outta jail and back to work on the plantation come Monday morning...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 11:49 AM

So great to hear your stories, Bobert. Puts it in context.

That Touch the Blues video site has more stories than straight music. I like the one that comes up on the "When" link: "When not to play the blues". Pinetop Perkins says, "I talk to the Lord about it all the time, hoping he'll forgive me." Says he keeps the seventh day holy, doesn't play the blues, or go fishing... Then he plays "His truth goes marching on"... with wonderful automatic blues stylings.

This morning on NPR, Eden Brent, a comfortably-off white Mississippi girl who apprenticed to Delta piano player Abie "Boogaloo" Ames, who dubbed her "Little Boogaloo".

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 12:59 PM

I've heard about this girl but never actaully heard her stuff... Seems that piano doesn't quite mix with the hill country blues... More Chicago, east coast or Lousiana...

As fir as boogie piano, AnnieBlues outta the Pacific northwest is about the best I've heard... Ann Rabson and Barrelhouse Bonnie ain't to shabby either... There's also a fine boogie-woogie piano player in D.C. name Joel Baliese (sp) that I've played with a few times...

Anyone groove out on that diddlybow sample by Jessie Mae... Gotta get me a diddlybow one day... Had a guy who was gonna make me one and I paid Ted Crocker to wind me up a hand wound pickup fir it but that guy got the pickup and then fell off the face of the earth with my pickup... Grrrrrrr!!!

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 01:09 PM

Will, you've made a new fan. Nicely done. Sometimes like BB you just have to find the right notes.

Tell you what though. One of my very favorite blues musicians was Charlie Parker.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: mayomick
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 01:41 PM

I find that a lot of recent blues musicians miss out on the intensity of the blues poetry when they write blues songs . Blues for me is not just the music.
e.g. "gonna lay my head on some lonesome railroad iron, let that two-nineteen train satisfy my mind " Bessie Smith(?) - that sort of thing


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 03:33 PM

Well whaddya know, Bobert, we've even got 'em over here:

UK's First Cigar Box Guitar Festival


And On the Jerry Can Resonator


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 09:02 PM

Yeah, Rob... I know about a few of yer cigar box players... There's a website called Cigar Box Nation that has a few of 'um postin'... And that's a good thing... Heck, next thing ya know ya'll be sayin' "ya'll"...lol...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 06:53 AM

Ther young lad inthose links seems to be doing OK...I believe he's only 16.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 08:34 AM

Yeah, Blues Beaten Redshaw is a'smokin' blues player, Rob... I like his one string cigar box diddlybow... Lotta players her in the US play lap diddlybows similar to dobro players...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 10:51 PM

So, back during my days jammin' at the barbershop, I became real close with the oldest of the old black bluesmen by the name of N.J. Warren... Now, me and N.J. were real close and I called him "Dad" tho he always called me "Sidewalk"... But we were tight...

So when I moved outta Wes Ginny, whewre I coud make the barbershop in 2 hours to Page County, Va., where the barbershop was now too far fir a Saturday afternoon jam session, I was invited to play at a festival at Luray Caverns... Only catch??? They wnated me to bring some "authentic" (wink, wink) bluesmen with me... So I call up DC an' arrange not only N.J. but Mike Baytopn who is a great geetarpickin' blueman...

So, the Luray Caverns Festival is a biggie and they pay real well and Mike and N.J., a couple of city boys, is, ahhhhh, lost and arguin' over the directions that I had given 'um... But we finally get them to the Cavrens and we are 'sposedf to go on stage in like, ahhhhhh, 10 friggin' minutes so...

...the Cavern peoples was doing everything to get our insruments to the stage and N.J. opens the truck of his car to get his geetar and here ya' have 20 Caverns peoples standing around to help grab stuff to get us up on stage when...

... N.J. sdrops this Fresca bottle in tghe parklin' lot and the parking lot being down hill that Fresca bottle was rollin' away at a purdy decent clip and then I here N.J.'s voice "Hey, Sidewalk, go get my bottle of shine" as he pointed towards the *Rollin'-away- Fresca- bottle*... Maybe ya' had to be there but the expressions on the faces of these Cavern's workers, who had just witnessed this entire episode, was priceless...

N.J. Warren died last year... I sho nuff miss him... He was from Tennessee and played lotta "Lightnin' Hopkins" stuff, but alot slower... "Goin' to California..."

I donno, maybe I'll talk more about N.J. in the future... I had a lot of good times being with him and playin' music with him... And I miss him terribly...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Neil D
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 01:02 AM

This him, Bobert?


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 07:58 AM

Sniff... Sho nuff is, Neil... I didn't know that stuff was out there... That Jackie Merritt playin' harp with him...

BTW, ya'll want a treat, click on a couple of them others boxes and check out Elenor Ellis who taught me Blind Lemon's "One Kind Favor", or Waymon "Buttermilk" Meeks who I wrote my song "Buttermilk Blues" for, or Baytop amd Franklin... That's the Mike Baytop who cam to play at the Caverns with NJ... Mike has had a stroke and can no longer play...Sniff... Rick Franlin (Hookum) plays with Phil Wiggins (Cephas & Wiggins) now adays... Love all them folks... They is all my homies... I gotta go now but seein' as Neil has opened up this YouTube so that folks can see some of the folks I am talkin' about I'll tell a couple more NJ stories and one really funny Mike Baytop story...

Hope ya'll don't mind...

Later...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 07:54 PM

Now back to Mike Baytop... Before his stroke he could spin stories that would lead to other stories and, hey, you weren't gonna get a word in edgewise so...

...about 8 years ago or so we all contributed to a fund to buy NJ a new resonator... Actaully it is the one he's playin' in that clip that Neil put up...

Well, there is a great little reso maker out in Hagerstwon, Md called "Beard Guitars" and Paul Beard makes some of the finest resonator geetars made... He also spins his own cones and fir $225 will take yer old reson and put one of his "super" cones in it and make you a new nut and bridge and all that and when you get it back you go, "Wow, this thing never sounded so good"...

But nevermind that...

Now Mike Baytop used to be the finest dressed bluesman in the MidAtlantic and always had his beard trimmer short and,well, he was some impressive... About five years ago my wife, P-Vine< called Mike up 'cause she wanted to know how he kept his beard so trim 'cause she wnated to buy me what ever he was using for Christmas... So hse calls him and starts into her question but when she got to the word "beard", Mike interupted and started talkin' about "Beard Guitars"... Well, once Mike starts it's kinda hard to get his attention so the poor P-Vine had to listen to at least 10 minutes of Mike's "Beard Geetar" stories before she could get his attention...

Once she did, he prolly gave her another 20 minutes of "beard trimmer" stroies but at least she finally got 'nuff info to get me the beard "trimmer" for Christmas...

BTW, ya'll... please check out NJ and them little boxes next to yhim... Lotta them were done at the barbershop and I reckon if ya' hunted closely you'd find the ol' hillbilly in lot of them...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 11:49 PM

Hey Bobert. I'm still playing the blues after all these years. I gotta tell you though. All of the splitting hairs and talking gets a bit tedious. I would much rather just listen and play. It's gotta be deep down inside you though. Ya gotta feel it. It's gotta move you and the folks that hear it. AND they gotta listen and get that feeling deep inside them too.

Too many folks now make it an academic exercise. They've stopped listening.

JAB


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 04:08 PM

Well, Jimbo, they sho nuff listen the times You and me have played together...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 04:41 PM

BTW, ya'll... If you click on enough of them barbershop (NJ Warren) videaos you'll more than likely see the G-man playing his washtub bass... Mighty fine bass player...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 07:41 PM

Just got back from the pub and stuck on my Billie & Dede Pierce LP (Riverside RLP 370. Just as good as I remember.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Janie
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 10:53 PM

just peeping in to say how much I am enjoying the links and enjoying this thread.    I preshedate the ejumacation.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 02:50 AM

Some Blues.....enjoy


Luther Allison..Songs from the Road

Dave Hole, Lillehammer, Norway

GfS


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:15 AM

Gutbucketeer: ...All of the splitting hairs and talking gets a bit tedious. I would much rather just listen and play. It's gotta be deep down inside you though. Ya gotta feel it. It's gotta move you and the folks that hear it. AND they gotta listen and get that feeling deep inside them too.

Too many folks now make it an academic exercise. They've stopped listening.


I've been doing a lot of listening to blues over the course of this thread so far. I'm still puzzled by the fact that some people categorise as "copyists" any person playing or singing blues who wasn't brought up in poverty in rural Mississippi.

I'm maybe guilty of "talking and splitting hairs" but I really do want to understand the difference, if there relly is one. Some of the stuff I've been listening to has sounded completely heartfelt and authentic to me, even though the singer/ player may not have "ticked any of the boxes" of what a "real" blues performer "should be".

So I really want to know whether there's something that I'm not hearing (yet) deep in the music that makes "authentic blues" performers different to "good copyists". Not talking about "commercial bluesy" music here...I can tell the difference there. I'm talking about performers where I really feel the "deep bluesiness" but who people like Hoot say are "not authentic" because they come from a different social or cultural background to those who they class as "real" blues performers.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 04:46 AM

Rob Naylor: "I've been doing a lot of listening to blues over the course of this thread so far. I'm still puzzled by the fact that some people categorise as "copyists" any person playing or singing blues who wasn't brought up in poverty in rural Mississippi."

That's because a lot of 'Catters' are full of uneducated OPINIONS!..Can't you tell???!!!

In the sixties they hated big government..now they can't wait till its bigger, and more intrusive, while its robbing them blind! Pretty soon, they won't be able to afford guitar strings..or even picks,,,or sell an ax, just to eat..but they LOVE IT THAT WAY!!!

Music is music, and is a GIFT....and can, and IS bestowed anywhere! I guess some of these nincompoops haven't had that stupid argument, in Chicago, St. Louis, Macon, Louisiana....just for starters!
most of them grew up as spoiled brats, with too much time on their hands, to bitch, instead of DOING!

Oh, did I forget, I agree with you!

Regards,

GfS



GfS


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 06:59 AM

Well, gol danged, Sanity... Here we almost made it to 200 posts about the blues without any "political comentary"... The Vegas odds makers had it that 9-1 that that wouldn't/couldn't occur and the betting has been very high on the "9 side" and I know lotta them betters were gettin' right nervous so my question to you is: You one of those "9ers"...lol...

Sheet fire... I jus' funnin'... Ya' see, when I'm talkin' music, I'm talkin' music... Period...

BTW, folks... (I know Gutbucketeers heart... I done played with him many times over the years... Some very memorable like the time we playded the Heritage Festival in the end of this barn with the doors open and it was rainy and cold and the wind blew in one door and out the other and we were slotted to do 50 minutes and by the half an hour mark my fingers were to numb to make any chords so just had to finish the set with slide on the left hand and strum with my fingernail on the right... Remember that one, Jimbo...

Or another time that we were in the middle of Son House's "Emprire State Express" when the train came barrleing thru right behind the stage... Think that's on his MySpace somewhere... Well, ol' hillbilly just held a rythum until the train was gone (2 minutes) and threw in a final verse as if we planned it like that....

But as fir the blues, hey, I never think of copyists 'cause the blues is so individaul that it ain't all that easy to copy... At least as far as I am concerned...

B~

p.s. BTW, I think we can get this blues thread over 200 and like my good gardenin' bud, Janie, I am enjoying all these clips that folks are puttin' up to listen to... Thanks all...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:20 AM

Well, for the sake of keeping it going here is my personal favorite bluesman of all time. Can't have a blues thread go by without a little
Charley Patton .


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:39 AM

Absolutely, Neil... One of the musicans who influenced so many other contmporaries... Seemed that everyone back then knew all about Charlie Patton... Somehow doesn't get the credit he deserves in some circles... Enjoyed the pics ot the Delta Blues Museum in Clarksdale and would suggest that anyone whois ever close should spend a couple hours in it...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 11:28 AM

Bobert: "Well, gol danged, Sanity... Here we almost made it to 200 posts about the blues without any "political comentary"... The Vegas odds makers had it that 9-1 that that wouldn't/couldn't occur and the betting has been very high on the "9 side" and I know lotta them betters were gettin' right nervous so my question to you is: You one of those "9ers"...lol..."

I know!!....but, a LOT of musicians, back in the 60's, got derailed, when music took a political distraction, and a lot of them seem to carry that 'protesting stuff' too far, and bitch about EVERYTHING! The Blues, is the Blues, is the Blues, WITHOUT the divisions, found in the small mindedness of politics, and divisions that come with that mindset!

AND...I hope you picked up some bread, with odds like that!..at least enough to hire a gardener!!!

Wink!

GfS


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 12:49 PM

Oh, really??? Were you there??? I don't recall any more of that back then then I hear today... Most bands refused to say political stuff 'cause it would mean maybe not gettin' booked... The concerts I went to people just wanted to get high and groove out...

I mean, the MC5 doesn't much represent the music scene... I mean, even Dylan and the Band refused requests to announce local anti-war stuff on stage...

Not too sure who these overly political bands were unless maybe yer talkin' about the Beatle's "Ya say ya' want a revolution" before singing "count me out... Ot the Who singing "We won't get fooled again"???

The places I was in the 60's were purdy much alike in that there was party time, which meant sex,drugs and rock 'n roll... And then there was anti-war/civil rights time... Even Richie Havens was purdy mild...

What derailed the music of the 60's was country/rock of the 70s... Hey, music goes in cycles.... then it was the music wasteland of the 80s (U2 maybe being an exception) then it was back to three chord headbangin' 60s music in the 90s with Stone Temple Pilot, Mother Loves Bone, Pearl Jam, Tonic, etc...

The blues, however, was also a victim of country rock 'cause lotta Britis Invasioners were pushed back by the Pocos, Greatfull Deads, Byrds, Dyaln and Flying Burrito Brothers...

But the blues came back strong in the 90s... Just took getting that country and disco stuff outta the way...

BTW, yeah, I played alot of country rock (no disco) right up until the 90s...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 12:58 PM

Bobert: "What derailed the music of the 60's was country/rock of the 70s... Hey, music goes in cycles...."

Get real! After the Vietnam war ended, a lot of the 'protest songs' lost their steam, (except for nostalgia buffs).

The was a lot of innovative music in the 60's-and early 70's, but, by in large, it was a period where mediocrity was chic!!!!....and it got old, and over commercialized. Only those who held on to it, or refused to mature, progressed beyond re-living the same old crap over and over, again and again!!!!!

Collect your bet, yet?

GfS


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: fat B****rd
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:09 PM

Anyway...I first heard of Leadbelly through Lonnie Donegan and UK persons may recall a Wally Whyton Light Programme series on a weekday lunchtime. I think it was a Thursday. That was spaggheti hoops day so I always assoiate Leadbelly with spaghetti hoops.
In the early 60s I went to the youth club where John Connolly sometimes played and he brought Alexis Korner's R and B at the Marquee. Another friend had the, then, recent Muddy Waters at Newport and at around the same time Pye released their Red and yellow R'n'b series with all the Chess and Checker people. I also heard Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee's Blues Is A Story LP and so all the various USA threads began to come together. Helped occasionally by Dave berry and the Cruisers and Joe Cocder's Big Blues. The Mississippi solo players, such as Charlie Patton came later, in mycase.
There and not a hint of politics!!
The Blues in all it's forms is by no means my only preferred music but if I ever feel like a quick twang on me Harmony..The Bourgeois Blues or Keep Your Hands off Her still goes down a personal treat.
Bobert, me old love 200 surely on the horizon.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:19 PM

200!

Bobert said But as fir the blues, hey, I never think of copyists 'cause the blues is so individaul that it ain't all that easy to copy... At least as far as I am concerned...

100% agree. I think of "copyists" as those who learn entirely from dots or tab and try to get note perfect on solos that were originally improvised, and who don't know how to improvise themselves! It's no way to play any music imho.

Pete.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:34 PM

200???

I am completely blown away!!! And appreciative of eveyone here who continues to share theie thoughts and links and all that... It is mind-bogglin' considering this thread only get three or four posts to it when it was started and then went into the MudBlackHole... And we haven't even touched on the Chess brothers....

BTW, GfS... Look up when the Vietnam War ended... By then the 60s music was long gone and everyone was playing twangy Tele's or Martins...

BTW, ain't like all the ol' Mississippi cats have all died out... Pinetop Perkins, Hurbert Sumlin and David "Honeyboy" Edwards still out there on the road... And, of course, the always unpredictable, Buddy Guy...

B~

p.s. Now on to 300 to defy all logic...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:54 PM

Cooperman, I'll take a try. The blues is a musical form. There are variations of it.
The traditional twelve bar blues has three lines. You state the first line and then repeat it the second time while you are trying to think of the way to rhyme and end it on the third.
The harmonies have changed over the years to accommodate the growth of jazz. One could argue that Charlie Parker was one of the greatest blues musicians that ever lived.

The blues singer emanates from the African-American tradition of outdoor slave hollers
and farmers. It has gone through a metamorphosis of a rural expression to the night clubs of Chicago and through the propagation of what was called "Race Records" by independent recording companies targeting Black audiences. The thematic material centers around hard living conditions and dysfunctional love lives.

There are few optimistic blues but there was
a genre called the "Party Blues" which was used to dance to and the verses were often risque.

The Cabaret Blues of the whorehouses in New Orleans were basically composed songs by the musicians that accompanied the Blues Chanteuse singers such as Bessie Smith. Some of the songs called blues by them were really out of the traditional 12, 8 bar or 16 bar forms. They were more like popular songs. The singers, however, retained a blues shouting style.

Most of the early rock and roll influences came from blues musicians in the clubs who played electric guitars for dancing. Some of the rural blues singers such as McKinley Morganfield moved to the big city (Chicago) and became Muddy Waters. Big Bill Broonzy started as a fiddler playing the blues in Georgia and moved to Chicago where he took up the guitar to accompany his singing.

When Black musicians took over the blues forms and changed them, the music became
broadened and included a popular base. Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, were two outstanding musicians who played the blues.

There is a question whether the Piedmont style of guitar playing which had a ragtime feel could be called the blues. The same problem is presented in analyzing the music of Leadbelly although he played the De Kalb Blues and the Red Cross Blues. Josh White popularized (some say watered-down) the blues by bringing into the Cafe Society crowd in New York. Billie Holiday was often referred to as a blues singer but very few of the songs she recorded were actually blues.

There is a substantial blues tradition. Like folk music, it is a flowing river that has many tributaries but it keeps on nourishing those who are into it.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 03:58 PM

"Went into the MudBlackHole" ??

Looks to me that there have been regular postings - some interesting and some pointless - every day since you started this thread. and.......what about the Chess brothers? Did you hang out with them too and absorb all those south side vibes?
Was it you painting the walls when the Stoned arrived?

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 04:03 PM

Speaking of McKinley Morganfield/Muddy Waters, and Telecasters for that matter:

She's Nineteen Years Old

That slide solo gives me goosebumps!

Pete.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 04:15 PM

Bobert, You must have misread my post. I said '..'60's and mid 70's.'

..and, 'twangy Tele's and Martins'????....Who cares????. Besides, you left out Strats, Les Pauls and Rickenbackers....among others!..but, then again, Who cares??

GfS


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 05:54 PM

No, Hoot... If ya' look at when this thread was started you'll see that the original thread dropped outta sight after just a few postings and was resurrected a year or so later where it has done very nicely... Just go back to page 1 and look that the posting history and you'll see what I mean...

And, no, I didn't know the Chess brothers but there's lot out there on them and they were an important part of the Mephis music scene and I was just musin' how we got to 200 posts without them coming up... That's all...

BTW, I've done alot of paintin' in my day but not too sure what wall yer talkin' about...

Strats, Les Pauls and rickies weren't the geetars of choice for the country rock bands of the 70's, GfS... Teles were 'cause you could get 'um to twang better than the others... I had me a tele... Real twangy...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 07:12 PM

Bobert: "Strats, Les Pauls and rickies weren't the geetars of choice for the country rock bands of the 70's, GfS... Teles were 'cause you could get 'um to twang better than the others..."

I thought the topic had to do with BLUES players!..Oh, and I left out Gibson 335's...which I have, as well.

Some guys just have to argue on here, because they're makin' no progress with arguing with the ol' ladies!

GfS


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:17 PM

Funny how this thread went very nice for 195 posts, GfS, until you infused politics into it... I mean, people was enjoyni just sharing stories and talking blues... No real arguments...

Yeah the thread was, up until then, nuthin but the BLUES... BTW, lotta women been here, too, and still no "arguing with the ol' ladies" 'cause why??? Oh yeah... They were talkin' blues and not trying to highjack a good thread with the usual below the line stuff...

Now I likes ya' but can ya' just leave the below the line mindset fir below the line... Prolly too late here... Seems that once someone jumps into a thread without reading or being part of the discussion and decides to take a dump on a good discussion the discussion is over... Normal...

Prolly headed south from here...

Yo, Pete,

Loved that Muddy stuff... But then again I've always loved Muddy's stuff... I generally like to stick "Rollin' & Tumblin" into my sets... I also clicked on that "Rock Me Baby" 'casue I used to play that a long time ago but was disappointed that it wasn't done by Muddy and the guy doin' it didn't seem all that enthused...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:57 PM

Ummmmm, wonder if anyone can find any clips of Slim Harpo??? I have been known to throw a Boberdized vesrion of "King Bee" into a set... Anyway, I loved the guy...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Gutbucketeer.
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:32 AM

Rob Naylor, Sanity, Bobert: I think we are all on the same page. I can't stand folks that try to categorize music or musicians as "authentic" or "copyists" or whatever. The Blues isn't about how fast you can play, or the gymnastics that you can do on the fingerboard. It's about the feeling and listening/working off each other to make that feeling happen. There are some you tube videos of folks that do some real fast technically awesome slide guitar work around blues progressions. They are so proud of themselves at the end of the video its like they are prancing around the barnyard crowing look at me. It's a 12 bar blues progression. But IT AIN'T THE BLUES.

Now Bobert, or Sidewalk when he's playing. PLays the BLUES. It's like a train going down the track, and there have been moments when I've played with him and I'm laying down the base, and he's sliding away, and harp boy is blowin' and we are all connected and we are all knowing where everyone else is going before they go there. It's transforming, and that's the BLUES.

I listen to the old masters Like BB King, Albert King, Robert Johnson, The Rev. Gary Davies, etc. to learn and admire. Not to
categorize them or get in debates on who was the best slide player or who was more "real".

I go to the Barbershop that Bobert talks about. Sometimes we play the BLUES there. We capture the moment and the feeling. A lot of times we don't.

JAB

P.S. I see I'm going to have to check back a lot more often:-)


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:35 AM

The Blues isn't about how fast you can play, or the gymnastics that you can do on the fingerboard. It's about the feeling and listening/working off each other to make that feeling happen

100% agree again. These guys are a long way from the delta but I think they embody what JAB says above:

Bob Brozman, Takashi Hirayasu, Djeli Moussa Diawara

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 03:49 AM

Gutbucketeer, HELLO!!!! You got it!...music is a gift from God, and it falls everywhere. So here is a link for all of you to watch, in its entirety!...If this brings the point home...(even sorta Blues based) is it officially the 'Blues' with feeling???...You tell me


..and we as musicians are divided?????

SANITY...!


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:42 AM

I just had to reply to this although I am not as qualified to contribute as other posts here it is a style of music that I have always had a fondness for more so than rock. I do think blues has contributed more to music than any for the rawness of it and lyrics that ordinary folks could identify with. People like Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, BB King, Billie Holiday will never be forgotten and Peter Green's 'Fleetwood' blues will be listened to in my house long after the next rock or pop fad. Ska on the otherhand tried to emulate Blues/Jazz but the chords of the music came out backwards but with such a good effect. Again it is another 'raw' sound that is a another favourite style of music for me.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: cooperman
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:53 AM

Nice one Stringsinger. Great descriptions/observations and I love that last line.
Might try playing more blues in the street. Not sure how it goes down in UK but weather here can sure give you the blues!
Hoowee Deputy Dog
(just threw that in so things don't get too serious)
Steve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 06:16 AM

Bobert,

Re the Chess Brothers I am afraid that you are a little too far south.
They operated from Southside Chicago, South Cottage Grove from 191-54 for instance.
My reference to the paint job was a story related by a member of those British would be bluesmen the Rolling Stones who some of you may have heard of. The story was that when the guys went down to Chess studios on their first visit to Chicago to meet their hero Muddy Waters there was a guy in there painting the walls, and who do you think it was? I doubt if there was anybody out there who knew Muddy that believed that crock but it made a good story.

Somebody above says that music is a gift from god. That may well be but the blues is the devil's music and I know that because I read it somehwere and you had to get to a certain crossroads to get it.
I went to 4th and Beale once but it didn't work for me


Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 06:50 AM


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: fat B****rd
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 07:17 AM

I'm with you there , Bobert


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 07:23 AM

LOL, Hoot... That's whay I brought up the Chess Brothers 'cause I don't know squat about 'um... Yeah, I went out and bought the "Fathers and Sons" double LP when it came out and 'bout wore it out... It was my first real experience with the true blues and not like the Stones of Led Zepplin's interpretations of the blues... Well, of course there have been some croos-over blues players that most of us were familiar with like Jimmy Reed but "Fathers and Sons" was my into... But I never knew an "hoot" 'bout the Chess brothers and put them into the discussion so that maybe who had the skinny on them would put a few peas in the pot, so to speak...

Yo, G-Bucketeer... Yeah, you, me and HarpBoy did some nice stuff until HarpBoy got that life sentence... You know what I mean... I did talk to him briefly until the warden caught him and then the phone went dead...

Well, Hoot, I woulda helped ol' Muddy paint that wall, myself...

BTW, who was in the Stones who wrote the book about the Southern Bluesmen... Was it Keith Richards??? I can't rembemeber but when I was in Mississippi at Sherman's house (Yeah, the guy who gave/sold that geetar to Seasick Steve) they was talkin' about how that Stone stayed in the "Potato House" while he was there doing the research... Tehn they were talkin' about how that Stoner would go over to Junior Kimbrough's Juke Joint and listen and play... Now Junior Kimbrough was one fine player and had him one of the last rural juke joints just outsidea Como, Ms. which had burned down before I ever made my firsy pilgrimage down there... I was able to do a little playin' with his son Kenny (darned good drummer) who was playing with Terry "Harmonica" Bean and Rev. Slick at the IBC...

As for the blues bein' the devil's music??? Well, heck yeah, it is... I was doin' this presentation the other night on a project before the town council and the folks before me were pitching a blue grass/old time music festival and so I got called up before they had gathered their stuff and left the room but used it as a humorous way to begin my presentaion by tellin' um what a nice job they had done and tellin' 'um that whne I lived in Richmond, Va. I played with an old time string band and so the guy gave me his card and said to give him a call to which I replied, "Sorry, I croosed over to the dark side 'cause all I want do is play the blues these days"... Well, that got a good laugh even though I suspect that none of the council folks knew anything about the "crossroads"...

John Sinclair, of "Free John Sinclair" fame has a blues radio station down south (maybe Lousiana) and I hear him a few year back at Common Ground in Maryland and he was talkin' about the "crossroads" and said that, inspite of the stories about Robert Johnson doing the deal with the devil it was more like Tommy Johnson, not Robert... I donno... I thought about doin' the deal myself a couple times but the devil wouldn't throw in that '50 Ford Coupe... Maybe he'll reconsider??? LOL...


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 09:00 AM

BTW, Pete, that was some smokin' music by Bob Brozman & Co... Not too sure if they got a name for that little 2 stringer but sho nuff brings new meanin' to the word "harp" when it comes to the blues... I mean, that guy was playin' a real harp!!! Fine stuff... Thanks for sharin' it...

BTW, Hoot... Ya' heard Fred McDowell's "Red Cross Blues"??? Man, he smokes it'

"Them Red Cross people sho treat you mean...

... I ain't gonna down to that Red Cross sto no more..."

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 09:40 AM

You are probably thinking of Bill Wyman and his book and DVD "Bill Wyman's Blues Oddyssey".

Re the Chess Brothers, Leonard and Phil; there are at least two books about them and their Aristocrat/Chess/Checker record labels. Plus biographies on Muddy, Little Walter, Howling Wolf and Willie Dixon which will fill in a bit more information.

Some of the people posting on this thread say they wish to learn more on the subject of the blues. I would suggest that they get down to their local library and pull out a few books, there are enough out there on the subect.

Yes I have heard Fred McDowell's version of Red Cross Store and had the pleasure of meeting him on two or three occasions and hearing him do it live. But I guess the song he is most remembered for is "Write Me a Few hort Lines".

Hoot


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:28 PM

Playin' for change is what I'm talking about.
Yeah, too bad about Harp Boy. :-(. But he will come back some day.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Neil D
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:30 PM

There's a movie about Chess Records called "Cadillac Records". I don't know if it is very accurate. I know it focuses mainly on Leonard Chess (Adrien Brody) and I don't think Phil is even mentioned. However the music is excellent and makes it worth watching.

And here's that Slim Harpo you asked for. King Bee


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 05:05 PM

I ain't never done that song with a bass player that can lay on that Fat E string like that so my version is quite different but I sho nuff love that song...

"Cadillac Records" I have heard of but never seen... Seems that I just don't know very much about the history of the Chicago blues scene even tho I like alot of folks that came outta there and do some song from them players... I might have to rent up that Cadiallac Blues and check it out... I'd heard that there wasa dcoumentary on Chess Studios but I wouldn't have clue about it either...

BTW, I just got the new "Southern Living" magazine and there's a section in there about things ya' gotta know about livin' in the South and one of them is about Mississippi blues and they make mention of T Model Ford who is another one of the oldsters still playin'... I did get to meet him but just kinda in passin' a few years back... Wished I'd been able to sit down and listen to him play some...

Didn't realize that Little Walter (Jacobs) came outta Chess... Reckon I stoled one of his, too, "Blues With A Feeling" which I put on my CD... Love that song... Great to have a slow song that folks just can't push the beat to heavy with... I mean, some songs is supposed to be slow and that one is...

Harp Boy, fir anyone interested, is/was a great harp player 'round the DC area... His real name is Vince Farabaugh... He and I started playing together long time ago and I tagged him with "Harp Boy" and it has stuck... Problem is that Harp Boy has a rather protective wifie-poo who keeps him on a short leash these days so he don't get out to play very often but...

...one of the best, if not **the best**, harp players in the area... I took him to Blues Week one year for the Wednesday night "blues party" and jam and he was hangin' tough with the most of the instructors...

Miss him... But that's the blues, ain't it???

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: maeve
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 10:45 AM

I was away when this thread slowed down. I heard a good blues song (the title will have to come to me later) sung and played by a fellow on guitar, with his wife backing him on, of all things, a muted hammer dulcimer. You know, it sounded good.

Another thread reminded me I enjoyed hearing Hans Theesink playing his blues http://www.theessink.com/en/ several years ago when I was a docent at the Edinburgh International Folk Festival. If you click the link, then "audio" from the left hand menu, you can have a listen.

Thanks for a long and interesting thread, Bobert and all. I expect we'll see it come to life again as others find something to add to the discussion.

Maeve


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 12:00 PM

Just takin' a short break from paintin' and lunch but I'll be back to this thread later this evening...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:25 PM

Well, I'm pleased with myself a little bit. For the last couple of weeks I've been working on Henry Thomas' "Fishin' Blues", fingerstyle with some bass runs thrown in....something I've had real difficulty coping with until now. I can do repeating fingerstyle patterns, but varying them verse by verse and throwing in little runs and embellishments seemed beyond me...but I've finally got this one down tight on the guitar, to the point where it stays interesting throughout because I'm not just repeating the same progression with the same fingering over and over.

Just gotta get the words right now :-)


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Slag
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:22 PM

So yer sittin' around, not doing a thing. Picks up the gi'tar and ya bends a string. That sound, sounds like the day she got up and walked away. Make the note cry, then listen to it die. Bent up strings and awful things, sad like today. Feels like that's how it's gonna stay.

Off the Cuff Blues. Here's to ya and your black-hole thread, Bobert!


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:25 PM

LOL, Slag... Yeah, just had to raise the bar with that "black hole" comment... It's worked out real well... One of the best threads I'd say I can rememeber... Above the line, of course...

Way to go, Rob... Once that stuff imprints then watch out 'cause them fingers is gonna declare independence and then it's Katie-bar-the-door...

BTW, I had a meetin' down on Shenandoah this evening and one the way home popped in a CD I hadn't heard in awhile by Dan Pickett... He's kinda a mystery blues player from 'round the late 40s (maybe early 50s)... He was a white guy who laid down some of the finest country blues of his day... Lotta folks don't think that was his real name... I donno... Not much out there that I know of on him but he's plays exceptionally well and his songs are just as good...

Ya'll check him out...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 03:32 AM

Anyone familiar with John White? I've been listening to his Banjo Blues CD which I like very much. Love the sound of blues on a fretless banjo.

Article here

CD info here

Pete


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 09:58 AM

Hadn't heard of him until now, Pete... Man, I like his sound... Kinda a contemporary version of Doc Boggs... Like that percusssion... I think it's a gord that has had ribs cut into it to sound little like a washboard... I got one of them but can't figure out how to make it work with a foot pedal... Think they are called cabassa... 'er somethin' like that... If anyone can figure out how to play it witha foot pedal please let me know...

B~


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 21 May 11 - 01:26 PM

Burton Coggles's link to the article on John White was broken; here's one that works: Taking the banjo back to the pre-recording days -- Pickens native John White releases Banjo Blues

Today NPR has this item: Gip's Place: A Blues Lover's Dream, about "an honest-to-goodness juke joint. Gip's Place is one of a precious few musical roadhouses still hanging on in this country." (in Bessemer, Alabama)

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Harp Boy aka Vince Farabaugh
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 12:32 AM

I miss you man! Thanks for the compliment! I still play and have gotten better,I think. I hope you make it around here in west va.
My number is 571-732-5773
At vincefarabaugh@gmail.com


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: PHJim
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 01:17 PM

My introduction to the blues was through my dad's old 78s, not country blues, but more old time jazz. I recall Dad singing St. James Infirmary and songs, that while not strictly 12 bar stuff, were very bluesy sounding.
The "great folk scare", as Utah Philips called it, peaked my interest in country blues and I had the opportunity to see players like sonny & Brownie, Skip James, Rev Gary Davis, Mississippi John Hurt, R.L. Burnside, Muddy Waters, Bucka White, Yank Rachell, Carl Martin, Geoff Muldaur, John Hammond, John Mayall ...live in concert. I also searched out and found many recordings by blues artists that I'd read about or heard mentioned by performers that I admired. Nowadays you can find almost anyone on Youtube, but it ook some real sleuthing in the sixties.

What is (are?) The Blues? I'd rather not try to come up with a definition.
There is the basic, 3 chord 12 bar progression, which probably everyone will call the blues, whether it's happy or sad.
Some folks vary the chord progression slightly, adding a VI7th chord in the 8th bar and a II7th chord in the 9th bar.
Jazzier blues players will add more chord substitutions, sometimes two or more chords per measure, but retain the twelve bar pattern.
Jimmie Rodgers added 4 bars of yodelling to the end of the 12 bar pattern, but it was still very bluesy.
There are also songs like Key To The Highway, which keep the bluesy feel even though they're only eight bars long, and Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out or Hank's I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry which have a bluesy feel too.
I don't agree with Hoot's allegation that white men/women can't sing the blues. If it sounds good, it is good.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Leadbelly
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 03:04 PM

Playing the blues?

Like Leadbelly said: " It's so easy if you know how."

That's it, folks. Comes deep from inside. Can't be "learned".


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 11 Sep 16 - 06:46 PM

Wanted to share a puzzling experience.

One evening in Austin, Texas, about twenty years ago, I attended a concert in an indoor arena, and it had a multiple line-up. The last act was B. B. King. Before him came Dr. John; Little Feat; and an all-star set-up with players like Pinetop Perkins. Mr. King was near seventy years old then. He had his backup band with him, he was wearing his Las Vegas sequin jacket, and he didn't have to sit down the WHOLE time, just part of the time. He could still roar like a lion, vocally; and there was nothing the guitar couldn't do.

The loud acts, like Little Feat, the volume was cranked up so high that the lyrics were only intelligible if I stuck fingers in both ears. Not saying that to be amusing, it was literally true.

B.B. King and his band came on at top volume like the acts before them. They would go out with fast, driving songs as well (a really driven performance of "The Thrill is Gone," none of the slow languor I recall from the studio version). In between came the part where Mr. King pulled up a chair, sat down, and played his guitar. The volume was low enough that I could take my fingers out of my ears and still understand the words.

In the arena about one row down from me, as Mr. King went through the slow, quiet, lyrical numbers, a lady of middle age turned to her date and said, in an acidic, sarcastic tone that could cut through steel:
"Where's The White Sheet?!"

All these years later I am still kind of blinking at that one.

I hope she was not speaking of violent incidents with men covered in white sheets, usually at night.

More likely she meant that the low volume sounded more dead than alive, and it was time to load up the gurney, tie a tag on the big toe, and throw a white sheet over it, whatever it was.

I was too intimidated to ask the lady what in the heck she meant.

That's all. Comments/opinions welcome.


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 16 - 08:19 AM

My vesrion of Blind lemon Jefferson's Electric Chair Blues


https://soundcloud.com/denise_whittle/electric-chair-blues-by-big-al


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 12 Sep 16 - 08:30 AM

Leadbelly also said, "You don't got the blues, the blues got you!"


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Joe_F
Date: 12 Sep 16 - 04:39 PM

When I was about 3, my parents used to take me along to what is now called a convenience store. It had a jukebox. I always got to put a nickel in & choose a song. It was always "St Louis Blues". In was No. 4 (not on the Hit Parade, on the jukebox).


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Severn
Date: 12 Sep 16 - 05:21 PM

Recently, along with Heather Livingston, I am co-hosting a show on a new community radio station that just started up in july 2016.

ALTERNATE TUESDAYS ARE THE NIGHTS WHEN THE BLUES COME CALLING!
Join Heather Livingston and Severn Savage from 6-8pm on WOWD FM 94.3 for more of the best Blues and Blues-related recordings from the 1920s and 1930s and on alternate Tuesdays thereafter. Share the evening with us, and make us a regular listening habit. Prepare to be thoroughly entertained, educated, astounded and brought to laughter or tears by great American music. Hear where it all came from and why
Webcast WOWD-LP Webstream at http://takomaradio.org


We have done four shows so far, and our next show will be on September 20th. Please stream us online and come visit our site to tell us what you thought of the show, make suggestions or requests, and if you are playing acoustic blues in the Washington DC area, please post your gig schedule.

Also check out the WOWD schedule and check out the interesting programming of a new community radio station that's trying to do some things differently with radio. Blues fans might also like "Bayou Boogie" that gives you two hours of Louisiana music every Tuesday from 8-10pm


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Subject: RE: The Blues???
From: Stu
Date: 13 Sep 16 - 06:12 AM

Just learning to play the blues, now I've got a new Strat :-)


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