EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:45 PM

Well, as you said, you met him once at Sidmouth. I haven't met him at all. So you're more likely to be right.

Not at all - in fact I based my opinion on the work he was doing not the fact I met him. Although he kindly asked me to get involved in a small project of his. And I was happy to do so.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:50 PM

Chris P -"Otherwise, everything I've heard so far comes under the heading of Wild Unsubstantiated Speculation."

In the absence of reliable information, the rumour-mill spins ever faster. T'was ever thus.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:17 PM

"And that was the considered view of a person who, on her own admission, has never attended an EFDSS event, read a publication nor even set foor in CS House. If you are not already doing so, ignore."


Now now, Sweetums, please remember that you who hath trod those hallowed halls have said yourself how boring it all is...

Now a 'What The Fuck It's Folk! Society' would appeal to me a thousand times more than the dreariness of the vision contained within The English Folk Dance and Song Society, which truly conjours up, conjours up.....well......dreariness, even if said members of said Society are whooping it up nakey inside!

I'm sorry, but you could have Brad Pitt as the leading member of the EFDSS and I'd still go "Ohhhhhhhh Gawd, get me outta here!"

Now of course, if Brad belonged to the 'WTFIFS' I'd be down there shoving Angelineee out the way in order to whisk him around the room to a Seth Lakeman number!

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:24 PM

I am soooooo giggling on the other side of this screen. Visions of Nakey Morris Men and Straight Laced Lassies, faces scrubbed clean of Daring Do Mascara are filling my head!


"Lizzie! HOW can you be so disrespectful towards English Dance and Song?!!"


"Er....actually, EVERSOEASILY!"

Makes me die laughing that the old codgers have got rid of a chap who dared to like pop and rock music!

Hey, Nick...there's a spare chair over here, next to me, in the 'We sure sent THEM packing!' department of the wonderful, all welcoming, all understanding, all inclusive English Folk World!   

And she patted the velvet seat next to her, whilst getting her Glittery Eyed eyelashes ready to flutter at yet another casualty of Those Who Know Best But Really Know Fuck All... ;0)

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: open mike
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:50 PM

what IS the EFDSS and what IS it about?
Is this a paid position?

best of luck to all involved...
not likely to sign as I do not know the organization or sitution.

Would U.S. and / or non-members signatures be welcomed, or not?

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:52 PM

http://www.efdss.org/

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:35 PM

Interesting that this doesn't qualify as "news" on the EFDSS website.

Instead there is "Wear your badge with pride - Special offer for members: Introduce a friend to the EFDSS and get a free silver sword lock badge for yourself and the new member. It is exciting times for the EFDSS and for the folk world in general; more and more people are joining or returning to the Society."

Which, one might have thought, implies that Nick Hallam must have been doing quite a good job.

It really must be difficult dancing when you have this habit of shooting yourself in the foot...

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 05:38 PM

John,
As a trustee is there any way you can find out what is going on and enlighten the rest of us? All of this wild speculation seems to be fuelling the boo boys and girls.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: johnadams
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 07:13 PM

Steve, I ceased to be a trustee a couple of years ago.

I still support the society with some web work and with directing Folkopedia but I'm mostly out of the loop with regard to the politics.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 04:42 AM

Why should it appear on the website yet? The staff there do not work 24/7 and I understand a lot of this sort of thing is done by volunteers. On Monday they'll have a chance to react to the petition.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: John Routledge
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 06:25 AM

Well said Manitas!!

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 01:59 PM

Well, according to George's opening post in the thread, this happened on Monday 9th August. It takes no longer to write a news item than it does to write a post here.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 02:34 PM

On Monday he was told he was not *confirmed* in the post according to the OP. It would have been a bit precipitate of EFDSS to have made an announcement at that point and probably a breach of privacy. I note above that the original contract was for 6 months only and was renewed only for another 6 months, surely this is an indication that the post was never meant to last long regardless of the reasons given above for its discontinuation. Can we wait until EFDSS has had a chance to read the petition and comment on it?

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 04:23 PM

The petition may be an interesting development of the story - but the story is the one mentioned in the opening post, and that is the one ion which it seems reasonable to expect a EFDSS press release without delay.

If that quote ""does not understand the organisation and what it's about" is accurate it needs to be explained. If it is not it needs to be corrected.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 07:31 PM

The Facebook campaign is not verifiably Hallam's initiative, is it?

Surely EFDSS shouldn't respond to anonymous third parties stirring it?

If Hallam himself had made some sort of public statement, they might be entitled to a rejoinder. As it is, it isn't normal practice for an organization that sacks somebody to make a public announcement about it.

They seem to have been put in a situation where they CAN'T say anything at present.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 07:38 PM

They can say what they've done and what they haven't done, and why. Open and honest, not a bad way to behave.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,anon
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 03:01 AM

Jack Campin: "They seem to have been put in a situation where they CAN'T say anything at present."

That is, as I understand it, pretty much what's happened. I doubt it's a coincidence that anyone with any genuine knowledge here is having to be anonymous and cryptic.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: treewind
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 03:29 AM

"does not understand the organisation and what it's about"
This doesn't ring true on the face of it, and it looks to me like code for a personality clash, as John Adams has suggested.
I have heard a strong hint from within that the decision may not be unanimous across the board. I don't know any more, so don't ask.

I notice that Nick Hallam's name doesn't appear on the list of board members on the EFDSS web site, but is still listed under "staff" and as a contact address on various pages.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 04:48 AM

Let's not forget that this story has emerged only in the last few days, and only as the result of an anonymous leak. I have no doubt that EFDSS intends to issue a statement at the appropriate time. However there are procedures to be followed in these circumstances, and confidentiality is important for the sake of both parties. I will be very surprised if the official statement, when it comes, adds anything to what is already being circulated.

It is important for any organisation that new appointments not only have the necessary technical skills but also that their "face fits". It is common practice for positions to be offered on a probationary basis.

I suspect that for reasons of confidentiality the EFDSS will be constrained from giving the full details behind the decision, even at an AGM. The Board is entrusted with the day to day running of the Society, and the question is, therefore, what can EFDSS members do when the Board makes a decision they disagree with?

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:20 AM

"reasons of confidentiality" means not being open and honest. That makes sense if you're playing poker, but dealing with people isn't a game of cards.

"I will be very surprised if the official statement, when it comes, adds anything to what is already being circulated. So would I, and that is a pretty sad thing.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:32 AM

If, as is possible, there have been internal staff personality clashes in any institution, then "reasons of confidentiality" doesn't necessarily mean that the institution isn't being open and honest. Dealing with people is certainly not a game of cards, but preserving people's right to privacy in internal personal matters - for their own sakes - is important.

If, for example (and who knows), there have been difficult internal politics at a personal level, then the inevitable complications of all of that may not be suitable for airing in public.

There's still no official statement from anyone regarding this affair, so all of this thread is speculation.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:43 AM

Well we don't know whether the EFDSS has been "open and honest" with Nick Hallam. I'm not sure they have any responsibility to be "open and honest" with anyone one else - on the contrary, in the interest of his future career and employment prospects it would be better if any discussion of his shortcomings, real or perceived, were kept private between the parties. It's usual in these circumstances, and usually in the interests of both parties, for it to be portrayed in public as a regrettable but mutual parting of the ways, whatever the private reality may be (which we don't know).

If Nick himself want to place this in the public domain that is up to him, although he too may be subject to a duty of confidentiality. However so far all we have is an anonymous petition and comments by a lot of people who probably don't know all, or indeed any, of the facts.

Just because this is of interest to the public does not mean the public has a right to know. Speculation in public, while perhaps inevitable, is more likely to damage rather than benefit both parties.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,another anon
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:53 AM

It's worth bearing in mind, as online speculation continues here, that such is the nature of online petitions that everyone gets to see them - but you don't have to sign them and you may not even have an opinion, in which case you shouldn't sign. The people that have signed clearly know Nick Hallam, or the work he has done for the EFDSS, and feel strongly enough about it to sign and comment. If you don't know him or his work don't sign it.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 07:20 AM

Howard, Will, I agree that "just because this is of interest to the public does not mean the public has a right to know" and also that "speculation in public... is more likely to damage rather than benefit both parties". I would expect an appropriately edited/worded statement however, because:

a) the only (third-party/unconfirmed) view available at the moment is that Nick "does not understand the organisation and what it's about", which is hardly a "as a regrettable but mutual parting of the ways", indeed it is damaging to Nick.

b) the membership may entrust the day-to-day running of the organisation, however the board would need to explain major decisions such as this, preferably in advance of them being leaked to the public, certainly soon after, or AGM questions may result. And the explanation, while not necessarily containing all the unnecessary/damaging detail, should help the membership to understand the decision taken. A "mutual parting of the ways" kind of explanation should be good enough for most in this case; though any organisation that uses this too frequently would soon lose my membership, as I have no wish to support secretive societies (but I don't believe the EFDSS has abused the term so far).

As an interested member, this is what I have seen so far:

- A guy brought in to improve the organisation's marketing
- a lot of positive results in marketing since his arrival
- a (yet unconfirmed) message/petition referring to his employment being discontinued, backed by a (yet unconfirmed) statement that in the public domain is damaging to this person

As a member both of the organisation and the interested public, I need therefore to see something that will put the above into some perspective and explain the situation sufficiently. I ask for no more than that, as can be verified by all my posts in this thread. I ask for no speculation, no "dirt" on anyone and no undue control over the board's operation. I only ask for someone to help me understand the decision.

Also, if I was Nick's prospective next employer, and all I have seen to date is what has been made public by some unknown person, I might well think twice. I think there might be some moral responsibility there too.

I hope that those who know me, and certainly many of the Mudcatters, would agree that I am no shit-stirrer. But I need to know if there is a bank standing order I need to re-think.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: mattkeen
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 08:12 AM

The executive staff are of course accountable to the Board (by the way the Board Members are the Trustees not the executive staff whether they are called "director" or not).

The Trustees and I suggest the Members (and I am one) should want to leave the Operational side of running the organisation with those that have been employed to do it, wherever possible. But this looks like a situation where explanation is due - but not possible yet.

To balance this up, I have known Nick for many years and the improvement in the Marketing and Communications side of the EFDSS as been terrific in the last year. Well done Nick.

But as is obvious we don't actually know what has gone on.

In any case, its a bloody shame.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 08:17 AM

Sorry mattkeen, terminology got the better of me, in the heat of posting; you're right about the relationship between Board, executive staff and membership. And I agree 100% with the rest of your post too.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 10:14 AM

Surely it's correctly and appropriately the responsibility of the Director to do what she considers best for the day to day running of the Society?

Were this petition to result in the board taking the side of the sacked member of staff, it would in effect be a vote of no confidence in the Director, who has steered a period in which the society's reputation and profile has greatly improved, massive Arts Council funding has been gained and then - only comparitively recenty - the marketing manager appointed as a result of this funding being available. It would make her position very difficult.

I begin to wonder if this petition could be part of an attempt at a palace coup by people who want the director replaced or maybe even fancy the job themselves. It would be a terrible thing if the society were to be torn apart by infighting as happened in the 1980s, just as its achieving so many good things.

Therefore, I still think that signing this petition without a full knowledge of both sides of the story is, to say the least, unwise bearing in mind those ramifications.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: mattkeen
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 10:22 AM

Agree with you Folknacious

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 10:42 AM

"does not understand the organisation and what it's about" is an interesting statement coming from an organisation which has recently branded its national headquarters as 'London's Folk centre' . I walked past and found that a revealing insight as to the current direction of the said 'national' organisation.
Basically the membership deserves to be told what's going on

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 11:17 AM

I know Nick from his time as an undergrad and post grad on our courses at Sheffield Hallam University and know him to be a good and professional person. At the moment he can not comment so I think we should let it lie till me know more.

As to EFDSS I yesterday recieved, as a member, my nice coloured September - December 2010 diary. granted it did say'at Cecil sharp House, but nowt down for us up in t'North!

So I hurled it across the room.

Like all the other arts it's an example of the poor subsidising the rich!

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 11:56 AM

I got that programme too. As you point out, it specifically says "At Cecil Sharp House" and doesn't purport to be anything other than a programme of events there. I registered that it was far better designed and printed than EFDSS output of old, and that there was some really good stuff coming up that I mostly can't go to other than on weekends but am very pleased to see happening. It looks like exactly the sort of thing a centre of excellence ought to be doing as a lighthouse to inspire people elsewhere.

It depends on whether you're running on positive or negative, I suppose.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: John P
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 01:06 PM

If you were sacked, would you want the details to be aired and discussed on a website? If you were an employer, in which universe would it be appropriate to discuss the contents of an employee's personnel folder with a bunch of anonymous people on Mudcat?

I work for a company that is part of the folk music community, and have sometimes had to sack people who are well-known members of the local folk scene. This is never done without lots of long discussions, soul-searching, and being very sure that there isn't another solution. Almost everything I've seen in this thread so far has been very similar to I've experienced in those situations: people who don't know (and shouldn't know!) the details feel free to make comments and insist that the organization that did the sacking "explain themselves". I've been accosted at parties with "what the hell are you people doing over there"? Unfortunately, as an employer, it would be rude, inappropriate, damaging, and possibly illegal to give any substantive details.

If you are a member of the organization, contact them and find out what they have to say. If you disagree with what they say, start working for change in your organization. If you're not a member, you have no standing to say anything at all.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 01:31 PM

"I got that programme too. As you point out, it specifically says "At Cecil Sharp House" and doesn't purport to be anything other than a programme of events there. I registered that it was far better designed and printed than EFDSS output of old, and that there was some really good stuff coming up that I mostly can't go to other than on weekends but am very pleased to see happening. It looks like exactly the sort of thing a centre of excellence ought to be doing as a lighthouse to inspire people elsewhere.

It depends on whether you're running on positive or negative, I suppose."
the fact that it is better designed and printed, is just your subjective opinion., it doesnt necessarily mean it is.
again, your comment some really good stuff coming up, maybe , maybe not, depends on what you like as regards folk music.
but as the EFDSS is very london orientated perhaps it should rename itself, the london folk dance and song society would [imo]be more appropriate.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 04:05 PM

"It depends on whether you're running on positive or negative, I suppose."

the fact that it is better designed and printed, is just your subjective opinion., it doesnt necessarily mean it is.
again, your comment some really good stuff coming up, maybe , maybe not, depends on what you like as regards folk music.
but as the EFDSS is very london orientated perhaps it should rename itself, the london folk dance and song society would [imo]be more appropriate.

I'll take that as a negative then. Strangely predictable . . .

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 04:24 PM

take it how you want.
its neither negative or positive its merely pointing outthat everything you have written in your postis purely subjective and is not necessarily fact.
can anything be strangely predictable?its either predictable or unpredictable.one thing that is fact is that the EFDSS is london based and london biased

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 05:19 PM

Nurse!

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 07:58 AM

;0)

Found on a train, somewhere in London:

'The London Almost Evening Standard - August 2010'

"News came through today that Civil War has erupted within the confines of The English Folk World.

At Sharpingham Palace no-one was prepared to discuss the matter further, so we beat a path over to fRoots tOwers, but the blinds were drawn, the phones unanswered, the door locked.

As consternation began to grow, rumours started to abound that a recently employed, forward-thinking member of staff had suggested booking Seth and Sean Lakeman, Cara Dillon, Sam Lakeman, Kate Rusby, Show of Hands....and.................Mumford & Sons!

People had, allegedly, been beating upon the doors of Sharpingham Palace in order to obtain tickets, but so far, this has been fruitless.   

Other rumours are circulating of Guillotines being erected in The Gardens...and that Damian Hirst has been commissioned to do a new sculpture entitled 'Chopped Heads of Folk Who Tried To Bring Folk Out To The People'

A spokesperson from FAF, Folk Against Folkies, was heard to say that no-one had the right to remove the Aspic from around Sharpingham Palace, and that Walter Pardon Evenings would continue, ad infinitum, for this was The Way Forward.

We will be letting you know of any future developments the moment we are privvy to what is being discussed inside The Privvies of Sharpingham Palace."




Wow! Who'd a thought it, eh?????????? ;0)

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 08:43 AM

Nurse!

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:20 AM

This thread needs a folk song!

The EFDSS Civil War

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:23 AM

It still needs a folk song.

The EFDSS Civil War

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:27 AM

:0)   I like that, Cap'n Jack!


Hey, they took my Ian Anderson and 'Nursie!' post away....

What a load of spoilsports...bet they're all members of the EFSDDSDDES Society..

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:30 AM

The English Folk Dance and Song Society (EFDSS) posted the following notice on its website on 16 August 2010:-

"The board of EFDSS is aware of the debate on folk music internet forums concerning Nick Hallam. However the board and senior management of EFDSS must deal with internal procedures in a private and confidential manner."

While this is quite right and proper, I feel that the Board and senior management need to respond more fully to the concern expressed by many members about the direction of the Society in the light of these matters. It is not the role of the Board, and still less of the membership, or the many articulate supporters who are not members, to interfere in staffing matters. However all these parties do have a legitimate interest in asking what the Society sees its role to be. I can understand that a genuine differences of opinion can exist between members of staff, and would feel that healthy debate can only serve to ensure that the Society's aims and objectives are clear to all. If, in the end, there are still strongly incompatible views, then obviously something has to give. What mustn't happen is for the Society to close the doors and not communicate with the membership. In the internet age good communication is essential. I'd like to invite the parties involved to be allowed to make brief public statements explaining their positions - but not going into matters which are personal and confidential.

We sometimes forget what a small organisation the EDFSS is, with a staff of only 16 people some of whom work part-time, a membership of 2,908 (at 31 March 2009), and an annual income in 2008-09 of only £730,496. Given these very slender resources it is something of a miracle that the EFDSS achieves as much as it does. My own impression has been that Nick Hallam's work has very strongly promoted the interests of the Society in London and beyond, and for that reason I have signed the petition in favour of his reinstatement.

Matthew Edwards

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:59 AM

Earlier I wrote

Were this petition to result in the board taking the side of the sacked member of staff, it would in effect be a vote of no confidence in the Director, who has steered a period in which the society's reputation and profile has greatly improved, massive Arts Council funding has been gained and then - only comparitively recenty - the marketing manager appointed as a result of this funding being available. It would make her position very difficult.

I begin to wonder if this petition could be part of an attempt at a palace coup by people who want the director replaced or maybe even fancy the job themselves. It would be a terrible thing if the society were to be torn apart by infighting as happened in the 1980s, just as its achieving so many good things.

The more this continues here and in other forae (?), and the more rumours I hear of some lingering sour grapes out in folk undergrowth about the director getting the job in the first place because of her not being "a proper folkie", the more I am concerned that this is the case. Please spare us from "proper folkies" and their muddy machinations!

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 10:27 AM

"...Please spare us from "proper folkies" and their muddy machinations!.."

Amen to that, Nurse!

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 02:37 PM

the director getting the job in the first place because of her not being "a proper folkie", the more I am concerned that this is the case. Please spare us from "proper folkies" and their muddy machinations!

Not if you read the views of those who have signed the petition and he commented on there.

The general feeling on there is that Nick was moving the Society away from its London-centric stance and was doing great things in the regions. This is my experience too.

Nothing to do with Katy Spicer's appointment.

---

Say, please remember to use a consistent name when you post. Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 02:57 PM

Lizzie. Not a rebel, not a naughty girl, not funny. Ignorant and seeming to delight in ignorance. Leave a struggling organisation that is trying to do its best alone, please.

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 03:32 PM

eliza c, with respect[a struggling organisation that is trying to do its best]quote.
that is hardly relevant, this thread is about the sacking of nick hallam, if it is relevant then you must be suggesting that the sacking of nick hallam, is just someone trying to do their best.
I am sorry , but I find that a very strange way of looking at the matter.
here is a fact : the EFDSS is london based, is it london biased? was nick hallam trying to make it less london biased, was this the reason he was sacked?
I am sorry Eliza, but I have watched the EFDSS carve itself up before, over the subject of london bias, in the 19890s there was a majority faction that wanted to keep it as a london dance club, and resisted any move to make it less london concentric, is this the reason for his sacking?Dick Miles

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: treewind
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 03:59 PM

Dick, Eliza's comments about Lizzie seem to apply to you as well. You are both out of touch and irrelevant. Something EFDSS increasingly generally ISN'T these days. It isn't "the 19890's" any more (when was that, anyway???? ...no, don't answer, I'll die of ennui)

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: RTim
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:20 PM

I wondered how long it would take for Dick to use this thread to beat the EFDSS.
Dick - you do your thing, and others will do their thing - this applies to Lizzie too!

If we were to be as critical of you, like you are critical of others - then God help us!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:25 PM

'Guest eliza c'

Awwww...cone on, lighten up, kid.

You see, that's half the trouble with the English Folk World and those at the EDSFSDDS&M...they take themselves soooooooo seriously.

I mean, 'eliza c' could you explain to me why, for years, they verbally punched the hell out of Show of Hands, saying they weren't 'folk'...but then...THEN they have Goldfrapp performing at Sharpingham Palace?

Beats me, that's fer sure...but hell, what do I know..?

Traditional Goldfrapp

And how come Jim Moray's the Traddies darling, doing all that electronicwhirlyjerlyderly stuff, but Seth Lakeman is a big nonononononono.....

The English Folk Dance and Song Society is nothing more than the headquarters of the Folk Mafia, who for way too long have sterilised this music.

Hello? It's the music of the people....Peasants, NOT Professors..as I've said before...It doesn't need to be 'guarded' like the Crown Jewels, but set free and given back to the peasants, of which I am one.

And if yer average peasant doesn't want it, well....blame Cecil Sharp, because he and like minded folks made this music the life blood of the Folk Intellectuals, who put it in drawers, behind cupboard doors, into aspic and then re-wrote it all with new rules and regulations, whilst sniffing down their long aristocratic, upper class snobby noses at the poor peasants who simply were so stupid that they just used to *sing* the songs with no understanding of the meaning, the history, the chords, the dates, the origins, the lyrics, the oompahpahpalava...

Oy Vey!

Sorry, but the sooner Sharpingham Palace becomes the 'What The Fuck It's Folk Society' the better off we'll all be....taken back from the Professors and given to the Peasants once again...

;0)