Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk

Subject: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 11:08 PM

Ok....Where is the German Folk music on the BBC?

I listen to many hours of folk music programming on BBC.

Three programs religiously.

I hear lots of-

-american folk, blues, gospel a wide spectrum

-Lots of latin.spanish greek, turkish

-Mexican/salsa celtica

-Afro inspired, Immagined village, afro celt

-Sweedish- (tudor plays one a week)

-french

Yiddish (no its not german)

No german?

Have I missed it or maybe they just dont know about the great zither music and alpine music that is out there to say nothing of oktoberfest traditional etc....

Conrad

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Bettynh
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 12:00 AM

Good grief, Conrad, you have a computer. Search for the music you want streamed.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 12:03 AM

The problem, you see mate, is that it is in a "foreign language" ...


wait on, Spanish Greek Turkish Mexican Sweedish French Yiddish hmmm...

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 02:53 AM

Why should there be? Have you tried German radio stations?

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 03:16 AM

From what you say, as well as German, there's no Norwegian or Danish (NOT the same as Swedish!). No Sami "yoiks", no Estonian music (from a country that *defines* itself by its singing/ music and used song as passive resistance to Soviet occupation for nearly 50 years).

There doesn't appear to be any Sudanese, Egyptian or Ethiopian music. You lump a whole continent as "Afro-inspired" when in fact the music seen across Africa differs as much as Turkish does from Irish. By that criterion you could lump German in with a general "Euro-inspired" catgory and Bob's yer mother's brother!

No Indian, Burmese, Thai, Chinese or Indonesian. And you lump "Latin" in in one category whereas there's quite a distiction between, say, Peruvian and Spanish folk.

So in fact, the lack of German folk music on British radio is actually the NORM for foreign folk. There are around 195 countries in the world and the vast majority of them have none of their folk music played on British radio. Gawd, there's hardly any *British* folk music played on British radio!

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 03:43 AM

Gawd, there's hardly any *British* folk music played on British radio!

Precisely.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 03:51 AM

Here ya go:

http://www.volksmusik.de/

Once you listen to this, you'll understand WHY they don't play German "folk music" on the Beeb.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 03:56 AM

Well Conrad, the problem is that there is far too much British folk music on the BBC it hardly leaves any time for anything else...

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:23 AM

Being specific re German Folk Music.
It was mainly hijacked in the 1930s by that lovely Dr Goebells for his own nefarious ends.
Which is why there is little of it left being played nowadays.
Which is also why we formed "Folk against Fascism" in the UK. to counter the BNP doing the same to our identity.
I would love to hear German traditional music too. But, precious few Germans are playing it.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:23 AM

I'm having trouble finding the 'many hours' of folk music referred to by the OP, nere mind German music!

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Old Vermin
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 05:06 AM

Mozarts' German Dance no.2 (Trio) KV 536 no.2, 1788. [1] does transmute into Michael Turner's waltz though.


[1]source Malcolm Douglas in Mudcat

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 05:11 AM

Conrad - WHEN you are paying for a BBC Licence you can talk to them about what they broadcasting . Until then , bloody well shut up !
What gives you the right to criticise things that are sod all to do with you ??

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 05:15 AM

Not really anything to do with the question (it's a Conrad thread so what the hell) but I notice he uses the term "afro celt". This has puzzled me since I heard it in Show of Hands' "Roots" -

"When the Indians, Asians, Afro-Celts
It's in their blood, below their belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?"

I am well aware that there is a group called the Afro Celt Sound System. In their own words -

"Afro Celt Sound System was formed in 1995 as a collaborative effort between traditional African and Celtic musicians and several respected figures from the UK music scene."

They hardly constitue a cultural group in the same way as Indians or Asians (who are hardly monolithic cultural groups anyway).

A little research shows that there is, indeed, an Afro-Celt culture. It has its origins in North Carolina with a fusion between Scottish emmigrants from the Highland clearances and their African slaves in the eighteenth century.

If you want to know more there's an article and a
radio broadcast.

All very interesting but a little obscure. Do we really hear lots of them on the BBC? Have they got right what we've got wrong?

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 07:18 AM

Are there no German language radio stations where you are or have all the German speakers in the US been assimilated?

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:41 AM

Our local (two) german programs closed down years ago....

BBC does have lots of folk music programming and you can listen again and again via archived programs as well as live.

Yes keep paying your taxes you UK folks...
Actully my listening contributes greatly to cd sales of cds I would have never heard of.

Yes there was a WWII setback but there is still loads of folk music especially in Bavaria. I lived in Munich and it is everywhere and out front and very important to the people. Cant miss it. In a way Oktoberfest music is shared widely- the classic songs- everyone knows them and they are all sung at fests big and small across the country.

The BBC folk programs play loads of music from other cultures but I defy you to find a recent play list or an old one with anything german
Check out Mike Haerding, Sunday Folk and Folkwaves I believe they have play lists going way back.

Conrad

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 11:06 AM

There's absolutely *not* "lots" of folk music programming on the BBC. On national radio I can see 2 1 hour slots this week and one next week, out of several hundred hours broadcasting. There are some local radio programmes too.

You might be exaggerating how much there is in your own mind by "listening and listening again". Listening to the same programmes over and over, IMO does not constitute "a lot" of output in my book.

So there are no German songs? As I said above, that puts German folk in line woth the folk music of most other countries in the world...ie, few of them get any airplay!

When was the last time they played any Sami Yoiks, for example, eg:

Mari Boine Persen

Or any Bulgarian folk music:

Bulgarian

So I ask again, why have you got your panties in a wad about a lack of *German* music in particular when in fact we probably hear music on UK radio from fewer than 20 countries out of 195?

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 12:34 PM

Why on earth are you looking for German folk music on the BBC rather than German radio stations?

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 01:22 PM

I can never fathom out why people even bother replying to any of Conrad's threads.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 01:30 PM

I don't hear any Argentine folk music on BBC either, infinitely more interesting than German.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 01:37 PM

I'd still like to know more about the Afro-Celts.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 02:09 PM

I'm sure there must be some good German traditional music, and I'd welcome a chance to hear it.

I haven't so far, in contrast to many other European countries, where with a little effort it's easy to track down good stuff.

But there is very little BBC time given over to traditional music from any country. If they ever get round to rectifying this, my feeling is that German music would have to take its turn behind, say Polish, Czech, Italian, French... And English.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 02:19 PM

No. German would probably have its turn ahead of English.

English folk music seems to be the last thing they consider playing!

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:12 PM

Go to google
Search for BBC radio
Take the bbc radio link
in the search box put in folk
you will find an amazing number of programs
most are weekly
some over two hours a week.

select any one of them and find the play list
you will find much english british isles folk but inserted here and there you will find other european folk genres played on these many folk programs on the BBC but you will not find any german

conrad

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:28 PM

Most of what the BBC plays is more like pop music than folk. I listened to Mike Harding tonight, well the first half dozen tracks, heard a straight take off of Paul Brady singing Arthur McBride, a Sharon Shannon clone and June Tabor murdering 'Flash Company'. The only saving grace was a Dick Gaughan track. The rest was all pop or pap. When the BBC start playing some real British folk music I'll start listening.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:55 PM

Ah but you must remember that folk is an evolving continuum always changing, no such thing as pure or original.

You are speaking not of folk but of what is known now as "old folk"

It is struggling for air time and gets some from time to time but generally it does get in from time to time.

There is fierce competition from non english folk or folk like music (except german)

So just expand your definition a bit and it works.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 05:03 PM

There are a lot more Poles than Germans in the UK.

What's the BBC's domestic Polish programming like? I would not expect Polish folk to be a large proportion of it, but if it's there I'd be interested to find it. The nearest thing to Polish folk performers I know of are the Warsaw Village Band, who are more of a folk-based funk band these days.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 05:24 PM

You keep on saying the same things without apparently listening to the responses:

1) There really *isn't* very much folk on the BBC, nationally. The "listings" you mention include BBC broadcasts in the regions, rather than national programmes...ie, BBC Ulster, BBC Dorset, etc. There is a tiny amount as a percentage of total broadcasting hours on the national stations and the regional stations rarely have more than 2 hours a week in total from a base of around 140 hours per week per region.

2) You keep implying that the broadcasts include folk music from *all* nationalities except German. I keep pointing out that the broadcasts include music from maybe 20 different countries, 30 at absolute maximum. Therefore folk music from 85% of the countries in the world is NOT broadcast on the BBC. Germany just happens to be one of that 85%. What's the big deal?

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 07:41 PM

Conrad,

Has it not occurred to you that everyone who has responded on this thread actually lives in Britain, so is well aware of what the BBC produces in the way of folk music programming - very little.

Also why should the BBC feature any German folk music, or any other folk music from outside Great Britain for that matter, since it is the British Broadcasting Corporation after all.

All in all your original post was a footling waste of time and I am going to waste no more time on it.

It's well after midnight and bedtime anyway.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 07:46 PM

Ok check out the program Sunday Folk
Over the past month you will find the playlist lists american, finnish....so on...

Lots of folk music

no german (radio shropshire)

Same with mike harding

same with folk waves (radio Darby)

Dont you have radios....or a computer on line with sound?

Conrad

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 07:51 PM

So, did you find any Polish folk in that search?

It's not a programme I've ever listened to, as I'm always playing in a pub then and the programme's local to Shropshire anyway.

There will obviously be far more Poles than Germans in Stoke.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: pavane
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 05:40 AM

And after the BBC did play folk (e.g. Nic Jones, Steeleye Span on John Peel's program), they wiped the tapes

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: TheSnail
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 06:53 AM

For comparison, Conrad, could you tell us how much English folk music is played on German radio? (I suspect there's quite a lot of Irish.)








Or, for that matter, Afro-Celt radio.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 07:22 AM

Radio Darby? tried Radio Joan?

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 07:37 AM

Radio Derby

Its a great program Sunday Folk is eclectic and very well done also very responsive to requests.

You can listen again via archived programs.

Conrad

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 07:46 AM

"no german (Radio shropshire) ... same with folk waves (radio Darby)"


Perhaps the thread should be retitled: "Local English Radio (and Mike Harding), Lacks German Folk"?

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 12:56 AM

YOu might look here (click) for German radio programs in the U.S., and here (click) for online stations in Germany.
You might also find musikderheimat.com interesting.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: alanabit
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 02:25 AM

I have not yet heard German folk music on the radio in Germany in my twenty-six years of full residence here. There is a programme on German TV called "The Folk Music Hit Parade" (I kid you not!) However, this is actually a form of pop music for people who keep their teeth in glasses at night and have not yet heard of The Beatles. There have been one or two threads here, on which unsurprisingly, the most interesting posts have been from Susanne and Wolfgang. As Ralphie pointed out above, real German folk music (no easier to define than British or US folk music) has had a bit of an image problem since the national socialist era. There was a very fine tradition of narrative and subversive songs. In particular, "Die Gedanken Sind Frei" was not a favourite of the Nazis. I have occasionally heard a few fine musicians playing traditional tunes and dances. We have at home a wonderful collection of Jewish songs recorded by Zupfgeigenhansel. However, this is very much a minority interest even in Germany. Although there are pockets of interest here, I know of no folk clubs or sessions dedicated to German folk music. The nearest thing to a folk tradition which I can think of, which is common currency throughout Germany, is the tradition of passing on childrens' songs in the kindergartens. Every German will recognise the tune of "Alle Meiner Enten."
From personal experience I will also mention that the British have little patience with other languages. An attempt to sing the lovely Yiddish ballad "Oj Dort'n Dort'n" provoked outright annoyance on one occasion. It may be a shame that some of this lovely music has gone unheard in Britain, but it does not surprise me.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 03:13 AM

I'm intrigued with Conrads infatuation with German Folk music, and its abscence from the UK airwaves.
This is probably explained by the fact, that there is very little German Folk music out there.
Unless you want 24 hours of the Horst-Wessell song.
Or Tomorrow Belongs to me, (From the Sound Of Music....and thats just creepy)

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 03:51 AM

Isn't 'Tomorrow Belongs to Me' featured in Cabaret, not The Sound of Music?

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 07:10 AM

I am not having trouble finding German Folk music I just find that it never turns up on the yes, regional, BBC programming that I listen to while at the same time music of other cultures turns up frequently mixed in with a fair amount of british material.

Ok then everyone e.mail Geraldine Tudor of Sunday Folk in Shropshire, and Mike Harding and the guys from Folkwaves in Derby and ask them to play some German folk music.

then see what happens. I bet that even with interest they wont play it.

Conrad

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 07:24 AM

Do tell us how much Polish folk music you've heard, then.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: GUEST,Churchill
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 07:32 AM

We will fight them on the beaches, we will fight them on the airwaves ...

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: GUEST,Churchill 2
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 08:52 AM

Never has so little German folk music been played so rarely by so few DJs (very topical today you know.)

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 06:02 PM

Actually I think one of the presenters did have something polish on a while back. But I am not looking for polish I simply ask where is the german? And why not play some from time to time.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: GUEST,Bjarne
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 06:25 PM

The First Law of Forum Netiquettes is: Don't feed the trolls!

Would those who want to defend their country please volunteer for Afghanistan or wherever. For WWIII, we should find a more worthy cause ;-)

For any serious contribution, such as alanabit's, other threads should be created or found. Herewith anyone commenting below this line is declared a troll or a troll-feeder:
_________________________________________________________

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 06:39 PM

So, Conrad, learn Polish and your troubles will be over.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 07:45 PM

One of the interesting dimensions of "so called german american" folk music here is that most of the bands at least those in the east can play polkas and sing in polish.

They have a harder time with german.....

Polish won the war......perhaps thats it.

But nothing as goofy as going to an oktoberfest in Maryland or Pa and having to listen to mainly polish music.

Nothing wrong with Polish my fathers family were from poland.

Conrad

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 08:01 PM

If they don't play German folk music on German radio, as alanabit says, it's not too surprising if it never turns up on the BBC.

I'm sure there must be some great German folk music, but I've never managed to find it anywhere online.

I just tried typing "German folk music" into YouTube, and for comparison "English folk music", "Polish folk music" and "Italian folk music".   Some good stuff (as well as some not so good stuff, of course) on the last three, but the first struck me as a consistently sorry bunch of clips. Which was rather disappointing.

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Reinhard
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 01:01 AM

Have a look at Deitsch, in my opinion the best current German folk act,
e.g. Die Rheinbraut, Vedder Michel, Wirtshaus-Zwiefacher, Kerwe-Lied, Heinz fährt Karussell.

(And I have heard Mike Harding having played their extendend German-Scottish incarnation 2Duos three times in the last twelve months.)

Subject: RE: Review: BBC Folk Programming Lacks German Folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 02:25 AM

"Deitsch" are terrific, Reinhard. Thanks for the recommendation.

-Joe-