Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Abdul on iPhone
Date: 19 Sep 10 - 06:43 PM

Oh dear, thought this thread would die. Fido. If you must continue, please use the new Faversham thread. Not this one .

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST, Fido
Date: 19 Sep 10 - 11:57 AM

Fido's sensitive nose has been sniffing around other sources of information regarding the hop festival and detects an odour of untruth about some of the claims being made here.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 05:53 AM

Thanks banjoman. Highlights of the Summer for me were when we were asked if we had Cds for sale - I didn't know people still bought them, and sending the money off to flood relief in Pakistan. You would have enjoyed the sessions at Faversham - good singers all. Maybe you'll make it next year.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: banjoman
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 05:07 AM

Flora - ignore him -you have a great singing voice so keep on and thanks for all you do - keep in touch

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: stormalong
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 03:15 AM

Last year's festival (2009) was excellent from a folk perspective, but having seen the programme for this year I didn't bother going. I did look for a Faversham thread here, but, of course, didn't find it.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Hoppity
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 05:58 PM

If folk singarounds were half as entertaining as this thread, I suspect they would have no problem finding a venue.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 11:22 AM

We all have problems with the memory as we get older.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 10:03 AM

Modesty is a wonderful English quality.

Sometimes.

I am hard pressed Flora to remember you ever singing anything at all.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 09:48 AM

As a singer of English songs I don't think think I have been told to take anything or leave anything yet. Kampervan has offered to investigate pubs for lunch time sing arounds and the committee are at the early stages of planning. They are considering a drop in session. ( I'm not sure how this varies from a normal session ) but I'm sure they will let us know. I think they will have a hard task of matching the quality of the C and A evening sessions but lets live in hope.

I have been at both Tenterton and Deal when very little was happening until we started something. Other years have had things more organised. ( paid)?. I think festivals vary year to year and just because something works one year does not mean it will happen the next year. I think my best concert ever was on Deal Pier when the heavens opened. What a fabulous night. Does anyone else remember that? And now they don't use the pier so the experience will never be repeated.

I've never met a Yoof, but I might add it to my list of hobies. Yoof spotting.

I do so hope Faversham continues - where would I get the pies from otherwise.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 09:20 AM

""I dont think you understand the meaning of some of the words you use - get a life and stop annoying people""

You might be on a loser there Banjoman, since the precise meaning of words is Richard's stock-in-trade.

He knows exactly what he is saying, and as Joe said, he can be hard to take, but at the same time, can be a bloody good friend, as I've found on numerous occasions in the past.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 05:46 AM

Actually if you check you will see that those promoting (and/or congratulating) themselves have done exactly that - but singers of English folk song (and similar) have been told (with the exception of a possible drop in session for next year) to take it or leave it.

Neither Deal nor Tenterden suffer from that attitude: there are always enough relaxed mixed sessions (in addition to some uptight ones) and they are mostly not drowned out by mid-atlantic electric rock, and although the American dancing (with PA rigs) can get a bit invasive at both it is not constant and it is not audible for nearly a mile.

I have seen one example at Deal of a person controlling the singing of songs (not in a folk club as such) and repeatedly calling embarrassing singers in stead of far better ones or providing a fair distribution, but it was only once.

Those with long memories might remember the long-gone sings (and tunes) sessions chaired by Foc'sle in the Eagle in Rochester during Sweeps. They were exemplary but were lost I think due to a disagreement betwen Foc'sle and their then agents. The three members of Focs'le made sure that all incoming singers were identified, and that singers were given two songs warning of impending call without simply going round the room (which is at risk of "place jumping", which I have heard criticised at Broadstairs - not in Bob's sessions) or undue favouritism (which I have also heard criticised in a different session in Broadstairs, again not Bob's) - and, like the club tent at Cambridge (when it was a folk festival) booked artists were encouraged to drop in and were fitted in for just a couple of songs as and when arriving.

John Barden's "sing-a-Z" sessions are almost always great fun, wherever they are, and I have usually enjoyed No Worries slightly less free-form sessions at the Ship in Deal.

Alas Sweeps has (maybe "had" in that it has been taking active steps to reduce street nuisance) also since come to suffer from too much lager and too much mid-atlantic electric rock and the people who like (and people who purvey) both, but it has at least preserved the admirable Good Intent sessions (as well as more rigid ones) . In Faversham there is no equivalent, and the singers of English folk songs and similar are not being served (although the trend may be dented halted or reversed next year, which would it seems not have happened had I not made this thread and pursued it). The overall flavour of Faversham this year (and indeed the targetted market if you read the piece from the Publican about preparations) - including the closure of three pubs (allegedly in one case not under compulsion but by licensee initiative) - was a more than sufficient basis for my joshing (and not very original) intitulation of the thread.

I know of one case in which young-ish male members of a side needed to get rather physical in defence of the side from "yoof" and another in which middle aged women (sorry for the ungallant reference, you know who you are) needed physically to deal with other "yoof" - oh yes, and a drummer who found he needed to offer to use his sticks innovatively - and there may be others examples of the problems of the recent Faversham.

If you want to be ostriches, feel free.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 05:36 AM

Hi Abdul and FloraG.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm sure that the majority who attended this year had a perfectly wonderful time.
The Hop Festival was always a high point during the years I lived there. I know only too well how much work (mainly unsung) that goes into running it. I hope that all the organisers and publicans can get together during the winter, and build an even better event next year.
Faversham is a lovely town, with some great people. Good luck for next year.
I might even pop down for old times sake!

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 03:30 AM

Ralphie - most of the comments have been very positive about Faversham. Its really nice that publicans and members of the committee have taken time to make comments/ answer suggestions on how the festival might be run / improved next year despite the disparaging title the thread was given.

If Mr Bridge chooses not to attend the C and A or the Bear session that is his choice - not the fault of the festival. I did not hear of anyone else who had problems. Me - I'm in the middle of negotiating a private booking for next September and I'm trying hard to encourage the theatre group not to pick the first week in September. Were missing Deal and Tenterdon this year because of bookings - which is a shame as we have been going most years since both festivals started and have enjoyed whatever programme the organising committees have put on.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 03:10 AM

......and all of it uunder the annoying title of Chaversham and not Faversham. As above Joe, this seems to be dragging on and on, can you change the thread to Faversham Hop Festival?
Al

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Ralphie
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 11:59 PM

I'm really saddened to read this thread. What used to be a joyous weekend seems to have descended into mindless bickering.
I wish next years Festival all the best. But I'm not holding out much hope at the moment.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 08:45 PM

Of course you are.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Mummy
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 07:16 PM

So what exactly is it Mr. Bridge brings to the festival other than his opinions? Would he like to steward? Run a singaround? Organise a stage and its' artistes? I am genuinely interested and not trying to score points.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 02:40 AM

That is excellent news

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 02:23 AM

The drop in singing session was discusssed at the FFC committee meet and agreed in principle so should be happening atthe 2011 Festival. One problem for the folk club is the proximity of the Chimney Boy to the Preston St Stage however I'm told this may not be a problem next year.
Al

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 08:14 AM

Surprisingly apt.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Dead Horse
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 06:54 AM

I prefer Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
And the old proverb: You can lead a horse to water, but beer is best.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 10:28 PM

While I do not usually cite the Bible, Matthew 7:5 comes to mind in certain respects.

Nuala, in general this thread has been unusually and perhaps unnecessarily restrained, to the point of lack of clarity. Let me put this positively: Bob Kenward never gives (as far as I know) the impression that he thinks of himself as more important than the session, and I have never seen him apparently give studied insult to particular participants.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Nualabs
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 06:59 PM

I am sure that if we work with the committee and the folk club, venues in and around the town can be organised. I would imagine the Elephant and the C&A are ideal for a short walk on tired feet to the camp site!

Bob's sessions were great last year, they were also timed to work in between the other music. Sometimes he was so popular that the sessions merged!

Please consider talking to the pubs, most I am sure will accommodate.

Trying to convince people that our lovely town in not just chavs and white lightning is like trying to convince some people that all Muslims are not terrorists, all rottweilers are savage etc. They will believe what they choose to believe regardless of the truth. However we are here to correct wrong statements. There is something that I find strange, there are places and events I don't like, so I don't go there.

I also forgot to put my name on a guest post, and just for the record the Landlady of The Old Wine Vaults.

Nuala

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 05:56 AM

Since I found some really offensive name calling on this site last year I have tended to keep an eye out for it. I notice one of the Morris sides who were so abused were not at faversham this year - I do hope it was not because of the name calling.

I spent a lot of my working life explaining to children how hurtful name calling could be, how unneccessay, and how sad people think it is OK when it isn't. I like to think I had some success at this. When anyone finds it and where ever they find it I think it is important that they point this out.
   
FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: banjoman
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 05:08 AM

Richard - your response emphasise the point I was making - I dont think you understand the meaning of some of the words you use - get a life and stop annoying people

Subject: Anyone for more threads about festivals?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 05:08 AM

Go, enjoy. For pity's sake don't bore the rest of us with it.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 03:07 AM

Kampervan
What a good offer. Do let the committee know as they might be able to publicise any event. They have a feedback section on the official site. I have found that sessions are more likely to work if you can get 3 or 4 friends who are likely to support. I am usually lucky as with the C and A we had 5 members of Priory this year who supported both evenings and at Broadstairs members of the OT Band when we did the Crown session. This then tends to attract others in. Have some jolly tune sets prepared so you can follow any 50 verse balad singers. Enjoy.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 01:52 PM

Lunchtime sessions would be fine. They used to run in the Phoenix from around 12 -3pm on Sat and Sunday, sometimes they went on longer.

The main problem with that was that the space was a bit limited if there was a big crowd. There were some very good evening sessions too, especially when Trommelflut (spelling?) were around.

It's only in the last couple of years that the only singing sessions that I've found (Synbyn at the Vaults excepted) have been at the Crown and Anchor; and, for very good reasons, they don't start until quite late.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 12:11 PM

Kampervan - I'm not sure there would be enough interest in a day long session, as most of the likely singers are morrising, mumming or stewarding. I know a lot of the faversham folk club have been stewards in the past. You might get enough for a lunch time session.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 11:07 AM

Essex Girl

Well I certainly would. I wonder if the Bull or the Three Tuns would be interested in hosting a session. If the demand was there I would be happy to talk to them.

K/van

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 10:23 AM

If, Banjoman, you are addressing me, in the only discussions here in which I remember you you have been gratuitously offensive (whereas I am purposefully offensive). I thought you were someone else or I would not have cut you the slack I did.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Essex Girl
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 10:06 AM

Last year I went to Faversham just for the Saturday after an absence of many years. Bob Kenward ran a good session in the Old Wine Vaults at lunchtime but the late afternoon one was ruined by the amplified music from the garden. I fully appreciate the fact that the landlord has to make money and that this weekend is probably the busiest all year and he has to make the most of it. This year I came down to dance with Gongs during the day and find a music session in the evening. I enjoyed the Crown and Anchor on Friday (too tired to go anywhere on Saturday night).For musicians/singers wanting music all day (like the Good Intent in Rochester) couldn't interested parties contact the publicans in the pubs just a bit away from the noise and the crows in the centre? I'm sure that if they were assured of custom all day they would be happy to have a session. If one was organised in advance it could go in the programme. Anyone willing to give it a try?

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: banjoman
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 06:08 AM

I hesitate to form opinions of peple I have only had the pleasure of meeting once (you probably dont remember) but it seems that in any discussion which you enter into on Mudcat the only opinion that matters is yours. Get a life

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:28 AM

Joe, this thread may not die yet, can we change the name to Faversham?
Al

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:27 AM

Faversham Folk Club Comittee meeting meeting on Monday Jen, Will formally start the ball rolling then. Seems the best route to me. Does seem daft not to have any drop in singarounds at all.
Al

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: broadstairs-jen
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 04:51 AM

i find it interesting that each of our local town festivals (sweeps, broadstairs, faversham) are being blamed for the english problem of drunken youths on the streets (although i saw none at faversham this year). surely the problem is not a festival issue, but is much broader and although the festivals work with the police to prevent issues, the streets in general need cleaning up.

i had a great time at faversham this year although agree that i personally would love to see more folk music. shall we get back to discussing how this could happen?

jen

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 09:10 PM

1. Ah, sorry, I thought the lower case L was a typing error.
2. Irony or humour by way of lampoon depend on sufficient accuracy. See footnote.
3. Again - I said "appears" ignorant.
4. Some of the buildings in Faversham are very nice.
5. I offered no definition of "chav".

Footnote:

"Verbal irony is a disparity of expression and intention: when a speaker says one thing but means another, or when a literal meaning is contrary to its intended effect. An example of this is when someone says "Oh, that's beautiful", when what they mean (probably conveyed by their tone) is they find "that" quite ugly.

Dramatic irony is a disparity of expression and awareness: when words and actions possess a significance that the listener or audience understands, but the speaker or character does not. For example when a character says to another "I'll love you until I die!" not realizing a piano is about to crush them.

Situational irony is the disparity of intention and result: when the result of an action is contrary to the desired or expected effect. Likewise, cosmic irony is disparity between human desires and the harsh realities of the outside world. By some definitions, situational irony and cosmic irony are not irony at all, which is quite ironic."

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 07:47 PM

Chris, you have to understand Richard - he's just like that. Despite all that, many of us have come to like him. He's what you might call "an acquired taste."

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Chris Maclean
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 07:21 PM

Richard;
1/I'm sorry I failed to understand your definition of chav -obviously I must be one.
2/I'm sorry you should think I'm ignorant
3/I'm sorry you can't spell my name right either
4/I'm sorry you think Faversham is such a dreadful place
5/I'm sorry you failed to spot irony or humour
Life must seem very bleak for you.
I wish you luck in your efforts to improve the folk profile here.

Chris

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 11:58 AM

Richard
The concept of ownership is an interesting one. We were there at the start many moons ago when we asked the landlord if it was OK to play, when the pub had squeeky dog toys and a customer who would always do an Irish dance set if we played appropriate music. Both alas no more. However, most of the effort is put in by those from priory, gundulf and the mummers who can be relied on to audience, join in with songs, and take turns to lead with appropriate choice of material. Organising it is the easy job when you have such a reliable crowd, most of whom have been going as long as us. If there is any model of ownership it is a collective one.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 10:03 AM

Chris MacLean - 1. The google ranking is none of my doing. There are hundreds of other sources for the term "Chaversham" than me.
2. I'll try again. Not knowing obscure folk songs does not make one a chav or an oaf, but if one is a chav or oaf one is unlikely to know many obscure folk songs. Is that clearer to you?
3. The reference to folk songs as "Kelly-Pom-Tiddle" appears to be (which was what I said - "appears" ) ignorance.

Flora
4. So it is your session then? And you run it? Not Priory?
5. A session where all may join in is not the same as one where all can join in.
6. Songs should wherever possible be in the singer's key - certainly if the singer has already started.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 09:25 AM

We had a couple of fine singers from the Gong Scourers on Friday night. I don't know if they play, dance or just dress up as Gong Scourers. They were very welcome.

Bob, I think you are right in encouraging the type of song that everyone can join in with. The sort of song we would do for a paid set is not always right in an open pub session. Likewise I try to do the accompanied repetoire in G or D - so the melodeons ( bless them ) can join in, even though these might not be the best key for the singer. The tunes sets I played over the weekend were determined by the penny whistle player who is still on book one - but doing very well. The mummers nearly always do choras songs or amusing ones. If we have a not so appropriate solo singer I often swap the order of who sings when so I know the next singer will pick up the tempo.

I'm sure the C and A session would go on if I wasn't there but since we first asked the landlord if it was OK to use the pub - somewhat more than five years ago - I've fallen into the habit of making sure everything runs smoothly. I've been in other sessions where the host dominated the singing or there were too many precious songs/ tune sets that had little interest to anyone but the performer. From what I've read of the weekend this has obviosly worked well enough as other sessions have come and gone but ours is still going.

FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 08:47 AM

My apologies for not putting my name to the last "Guest" post. It was an oversight.
Richard, I don't understand "Horse, cart, Guest".
Yes, "Chaversham" does feature on Google. And your post is third on the list. It is your vitriol that helps perpetuate this myth.
How can you presume I am "supremely ignorant about folk song?" What do you know about me that suggests that?
I am sure it isn't necessary to shovel such unpleasantness into a genuine debate about concerns about folk provision at the Hop Festival. You certainly haven't warmed me to the idea!
It's odd ~ I thought I could help!
Chris Maclean

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 08:15 AM

Horse, cart, Guest.

Google "Chaversham" - you will find all the evidence you might want.

People are not oafs or chavs because they do not know obscure songs, but because they are oafs or chavs they do not know them. You also appear to be supremely ignorant about folk song.

Bob - yes, I am strongly in favour of "all join in". That does not mean dumbing down to "the Wild Rover".

PS: I meant, of course "principle" not "principal".

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: synbyn
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 07:53 AM

Richard, I know you're on the side of the folkie, sometimes I just cavil at your way of expressing it! I'm sure your heart is in the right place.
As you may have noticed, I've run singarounds/ open mike sessions over the years as requested and now think that the session in which all present join in as often as possible right through over say a two-hour span is the way I like to go- purely personally- as there seems to be a shared understanding, a swelling of mutual sound, a harmony, which doesn't automatically arise where individual performers do slots.
In sessions like this, it's the host's part to ensure that everyone gets to lead fairly, that other performers accompany sympathetically and that ( the part I particulary enjoy) there is a balanced variety of music and song throughout. In my experience it's quite rare for that to arise spontaneously- often the ablest performers take things away from the others at their pace. The very best, of course, are usually pretty generous in helping others along if the session is set up and explained beforehand... think of CT or SM or CS or KK or Liam Robinson in this respect...
So we all have our preferences, and will find venues suitable- and at the end of the day, if we find ourselves in the auction room with an unsold lot, may reflect that we just didn't bring what people wanted to take home with them... any more grizzled philosophy comes in my slim volume 'Life, 6 Chords & A Capon'.....
Bob

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST, Poxicat
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 05:46 AM

Is Flora Green is completely right in what she says to Fido above?

The Crown and Anchor evening song sessions are always run by her, from the centre of the room, even if there have been others in there singing or playing before she arrives. This may affect her perspective. It may affect the perspective of others. For about 5 years (until last year) surely she (with Andy her husband) led in Gundulf kit. Now she is not with Gundulf and may be with Priory. I am also slightly surprised by her assertion that Gong Scourers were in her part of the C&A this year: as far as I know their main musicians were elsewhere both evenings.

However a lunchtime mixed session at the Chimney Boy (maybe upstairs, where it could run on if wished) would be a good idea. I think it was floated further up the page.

I fear however that there are already widespread reports on the internet about low-life behaviour in Faversham, not just during the hop festival. See for example http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/2004/10/chavershamfaversham/

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 04:31 AM

I'm sure your right (landlady guest). Having seen Rochester become a playground for 15 year olds over the years I have not had that feeling from Faversham.

Fido - priory morris run the C and A sing arounds as they have always done but well supported by Gundulf, Faversham folk club and the mummers and this year we had people from the Goood Intent, Dead Horse, Gong Scourers and Sompting. We know most of the people by name as they come back every year, so I think we get more things right than wrong. More singers than musicians but it is not exclusive.

What I don't understand is why Brogdale and the local schools are not more involved. It would seem an obvious venue/ date for Brogdale to publicise its work and offer trips round the site for people staying the weekend. ( Both the caravan and the caravan and camping club had sites for the weekend). We met a trustee of the Kent Wildlife trust and saw their stall but nothing from Brogdale.

Could faversham folk club run a lunchtime sing around?

We were the band for a local charity event this year and we raised £2000 for the air Ambulance - but the local state school did a country dance display and a local dance school and Flyball club were involved. The scouts sold vast numbers of beefburgers and hot dogs.   I'm sure Faversham has equally enterprising organisations.

However, its easy to make suggestions without doing any of the work involved from someone who does not live in the area. I do hope that there is enough local interest for the festival to continue and having been involved with Hepstead I do understand how much of a committment it is to organise anything like this - it is a bit like OFSTED - so much easier to critisise and then run - than roll your sleeves up and get involved.

FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:02 PM

I believe there is a "debrief" for the hop festival that I will be going to and letting other publicans and businesses know about. I believe we all have the interests of the festival at heart, personally not just from a business point of view. I moved here when I was 16 and have every time I moved away I have moved back. I am proud of Faversham but not blinkered to it's faults. However the reputation it has is far worse than the reality, an example of this is the rumours (not just on here but other blogs etc) that pubs were shut by the police. I think the Hop Festival promotes the town very well.

I think we need to look at the timings of bands so we can fit music to all tastes, maybe themed venues is the way forward. I am sure lots of ideas will come out and maybe some will be tried. The important thing is that we have one next year. There are lots of pubs of all shapes and sizes around the town so there will be venues to suit most.

Skynflint did a great job riunning the sessions and these fitted in with other music at The OWV, but it is very hard to keep people quiet when they are having a good time. I was more than happy, but I have to try different things. Many traditionist do not like Sur Le Docks, but Saturday night they were great and enjoyed by many, who all seemed to be singing along and even praying at one point with the band (you would have had to be there!). Thanks Synbyn for getting them they really ended the night well. This is only my second so I am on a learning curve!
PS I am a Landlady!

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST, Fido
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 05:58 PM

synbyn, here you ignore both the facts and the elephant in the room, although your songs show your observation.

There weren't venueS (plural) providing for folk song this year.

There was the the Crown and Anchor (well out of the centre) that had two sessions - Friday night and Saturday night: both led by whom?

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: synbyn
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 03:26 PM

Agreed,K/van, which was why I brought in Skynflynt last year- divided, the fee barely covered Rob's petrol... Nuala & David have done a terrific job in turning the Vaults round, and it was an unknown quantity- you'd not have had a singaround in there in previous years! And the Phoenix, the previous venue, was out of action. Both Sat & Sun morning sessions were workable, but on Sat we were asked to recommence in a room full of drinkers, which we did, and you may remember a couple of local girls who'd never sung doing so & dancing... I do agree that a quiet room is ideal for those that wish to play to each other and aren't concerned with outside events- and it seems there are venues providing this, so I can't quite see what the beef is.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 10:46 AM

You are right Richard. Most sing arounds, sessions and folk clubs have their own unique atmoshpere and suit some better than others. I've been taking more paid bookings for the band this year - having had most of last year off because of a death within the band - but even with all the extra playing we are getting to do I still like to keep the Faversham weekend free. I think I have a soft spot for the Crown and Anchor sessions since we were ther at the start of them.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 10:39 AM

for "all folkies" read "me"

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 10:16 AM

It does not however suit all folkies

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 09:47 AM

You seem to have missed my comment that the sing around in the Crown and Anchor was was particularly good on the Saturday night this year. It was Ok on the Friday, with some good individual singers but lacked that magic blend that you sometimes get as happened on the Saturday. I think the Friday night had some of the voices which are often good on their own don't always blend so well.

This session happens without anyone needing to be paid. The room is not too big but open to the rest of the pub and the landlord always swiches the juke box off when we arrive. The pub is just too far away from the dancing area to make it a sensible lunch time venue.

We did not find anything much going on at lunchtime and missed that.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:58 AM

Not my coinage - an apt term formed elsewhere.

Indeed, it was a term apt for a concern that grew as the festival approached and was realised at it.

It should not be the chavs festival but everyone's: shame they seem to be winning.

I thought Skynflynt were pretty good last year - but they could hardly compete with the racket in the Wine Vaults then and although I'm pretty loud when I want to be (see FloraG's remark about "loud and nasal" above) nor could I. Indeed I thought I heard them regretting the fact that since they were loud they got put in the worst venues.

Also while Skynflynt can often carry a venue, there are other would be leaders who can't, and regrettably the landlord of the Wine Vaults (above) found they were not a profitable expenditure.

I'm not sure that I agree with your assessment that longer songs or quieter songs or less "popular" songs should be avoided - either as a matter of practicality or indeed as one of principal.

As to principal, the electric blues bands are not barracked by oafs to play "Dust my Broom" (probably the only 12-bar traditional-ish blues most of the oafs have heard of) so why should folk singers succumb to yells for the Wild Rover etc?

As to practicality, maybe the crowd in the Elephant Saturday night last year were exceptionally forgiving, but that evening last year, without a PA, with quiet songs as well as belters, and including (a short version of) Sir Patrick Spens, (a short version of) Famous Flower of Serving Men, the 22-verse version of Matty Groves, and Knight William seemed to go well so some people must be prepared to listen and dumbing down is not always necessary.   

Me? I'm on the side of the folkie. We deserve as much consideration as other aspects of society (particularly since folk dancers make up much of the free street displays for the festival). Was there any doubt about that?

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:47 AM

Synbyn

Much of what you say is very true, but not all singarounds need paid performers to succeed.
I was there last year when you valiantly battled to get a session going at the Wine Vaults. But given the high level of background noise from people who were most definitely not interested in folk music then you never stood a chance.

Nobody expects perfect quiet, but the only songs that were audible were the loudest ones from your repetoire. I don't think that it was an enjoyable experience for either you or the audience.

But a room set aside for people interested in coming along and having a pint and singing a few songs is something that I think would be worth trying. Much in the same way that the instrumentalists do in the back of the Bear.

K/van

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: synbyn
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:02 AM

PART 3 didn't pick up the title, which imho is gratuitously offensive. WHose side are you on?
Bob

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: synbyn
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:00 AM

Sorry unfamiliar machine- part 2! Woodshed depend on a group of musicians who don't mind the noise & atmospher of a live pub, and who take on the challenge by working from what is requested and maybe adding to the range. Imposing our taste is a sure recipe for brisk demise... rant over...
thought the committee did a good job in difficult circumstances... all of the responsibility... and despite the rivers of blood etc, which I had no difficulty in fording, I had a good time and so di many others. And the reason I'm late on this thread, Richard, is that I

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: synbyn
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 07:52 AM

Having run singarounds for several years at the festival, I'd come to the conclusion that the only way to ensure the publican and public got a good deal was to hire in additional musicians who could be relied upon to entertain the public- Skynflynt come to mind, as do others who assisted with sessions. Obviously this has a cost, and must bring in sales. If it results in a full pub with little beer being bought on the premises, I can't see that any of us can complain- we've all seen the tonic water and/or bottle in the boot.... and whisper it softly, some performers do us few favours- pub sessions are no place for lengthy bad salads, nor for indulgent pieces which don't connect. The place for such sessions imho is a little room somewhere else... which may happen next year. But don't expect the publicans, whose living is precarious, to subsidise folk art- that ain't going to happen. Sessions like the W

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 07:02 AM

Well I don't have much influence but I know the people who do and I'm sure next year will see singaround venues. Sounds like the Old Wine Vault may well be one. Anyway, lets hope there is an hop festival next year.
Al

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 07:00 AM

I think that we're singing from the same Broadside Richard.

K/van

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 06:57 AM

I have never said it was a folk festival. What I have said is that there is now no adequate and acceptable space for folk. If that flows from a conscious business strategy, well there it goes. Part of the festival is largely gone and what is left will come to be more and more like Saturday night (as I was told) was.

Folkies have never asked for the whole town. Just enough space (physically and acoustically and fermentationally) for themselves and anyone who does want to listen to them.

Folk song has been part of the beer and ale making tradition - and indeed harvest festivities generally - since before Shepherd Neame was founded in 1649. It is a shame if there is no more room for it.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 06:32 AM

I think that the constant references to "This is not a folk festival" rather miss the point.

It was intended to be a celebration of the hop, held at hop harvest time. I was meant to include all aspects of hopping, from the Pearly Kngs and Queens, to the hopper steam train. Some may be true to life, some might be more fanciful. But folk singing was certainly a PART of the hopping tradition.

No, the festival is not a folk festival, but it should include folk music in the same way that it includes all the other musical genre.

It would be good to find somewhere where a folk singing session could be held, no performers need get paid, there are enough people interested in singing for the pure pleasure of it. But the venue needs to be advertised so that folk know that it's available.

If, after that, there is insufficient support to make it viable for a landlord to give over a quiet area for the purpose then so be it.

The singers have been given a chance and it ends there.

If anyone can think of a potentially suitable space then it would be good to hear about it and the landlord could then be approached.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 05:31 AM

When I used to live there, it was always billed as a "Town" festival. True, it's origins were based on folk sessions/Morris etc. But it has certainly changed over the years, with more diverse musics being included.
I think that in reality it has outgrown the town. Most of the official gigs always used to finish by 6 o clock ish, and it seems that some of the pubs have expanded into the evening. Nothing wron with that, business is business, and good luck to the ones that are successful.
But it seems to me that the "fringe" evening events tend to atract themore youthful end of things. Some of whom have probably been drinking all day anyway.
But Richard, it was never a Folk Festival. It's a Town festival celebrating the Hop harvest. Nothing more nothing less.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Chris Maclean
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 05:20 AM

I think you are right, FloraG. For me one of the highlights of my year, musically, is Oyster Morris singing carols here at Christmas. They have the whole space.
However I suspect the popularity of the Hop Festival is creating its own casualties. I've heard it said that sides have difficulties finding spaces to dance; now I hear singers find themselves with fewer venues.
I am not on the committee who organise all of this. (They have been heroes in the face of such difficulties.) My one suggestion I would make would be to abandon the Preston Street stage and give over the Market Place stage to other activities (Pearly Kings & Queens etc)leaving the other amplified music elsewhere. I believe that would create a better atmosphere for the folk folk!
Part off the problem with this monster is that it seems so big we're running out of space. Maybe its time for another festival ~ maybe in the spring?

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 04:28 AM

Chris - you are right in that for the festival to survive it needs to be all encompasing - not just folk - so it gets the support of the whole town. However, it was started by a folkie.

I like the way you have turned the pub around in the last 4 years. Its nice to see you bucking the trend. Your pub does not lend itself to unaccomanied singers - too big and thus too noisey. Broadstairs have moved away from this in the pubs and most pubs have bands with PA.

I would have liked the pubs that offered entertainment to be themed - perhaps one could offer jazz, another blues etc. It seemed to be a bit random this year, so difficult as a potential customer to know where to go, when. Perhaps the publicans could have a pre planning meet to offer a wider range of better advertised music .

I went back to the camp site on Saturday PM and did not hear your PA, but I could hear it from the station.

I think your local school is an enterprise college so I am wondering if the students could be involved in running an event other than just providing the camping facility. I thought the TA very enterprising with their stall. I know the timing is poor for the school as they only return to school that week - but perhaps they could run the Hoppers ball - with profits going to the school. It would be nice to see any musical students actually playing with the band, while others ( dance GCSE ) could do an interval performance and others be involved in the publicity and selling refreshments.

As a mimimum requirement Faversham need to encourage street entertainers to turn up - otherwise you need the much more expensive set stages. The Morris and the mummers are ideal for this so the town can not afford to antagonise them. Overloud PA music tends to do this. The camping facility, a few free beer tickets and a few tickets to the hoppers ball are all positive things - as is the welcome we get from the Crown and Anchor. Not all morris sides are folkies - and many are happy to go and listen to a wide range of music. Most are working during the day so a lunch time session is all they require for the musicians. A named pub for this to happen in would be good.

I hope some of these ideas are helpful.

FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Chris Maclean
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 04:09 AM

My apologies for not getting your name right. It was not intentional.
I am a little confused.
If your efforts to develop the folk aspect of the Hop Festival are sincere would it not be better if you approached the licensees directly rather than furtively posting malicious rants on social websites? That is what you want to achieve, isn't it?
Licensees are here to listen. Talk to them.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 02:48 AM

Accurate reading would help.

Get my name right.

Bother to distinguish between what I said I saw (or heard) and what I said I was told.

It has already been said above that you closed early to avoid trouble: but you stoked that trouble for yourself by the very marketing strategy that you claim "delivers" (I did read your article in "the Publican").

I did not find any folk song in the Mechanics Arms. I was told by locals that there was none in the Phoenix. I did not find any in the Three Tuns. I did not find any in the Elephant (I had been going to do some but the day was so dispiriting neither I nor any others (as far as I know) went. If you can establish otherwise, please do.

The upshot is that far from the inclusiveness suggested by the words "no group can lay legitimate claim to all of it" in fact no singer or player of folk song is properly accommodated save for the limited class of players of Irish tunes. The group close to establishing claim to the turf is lager yoof.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Chris Maclean
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 06:35 PM

It would have been so much nicer if Richard Bridges had taken time to talk to the people concerned.
My name is Chris Maclean and I am the licensee of the Railway.
The Hop Festival is a tremendous part of Faversham's calendar and we are all proud to be part of it. But it isn't a folk festival. It isn't a beer festival. Indeed I heard it described, somewhat harshly, as "a flea market with pubs doing cheap music". But it is amazingly popular and tremendous fun. But no group can lay legitimate claim to all of it.
In the four years we have run this pub we've never had to call the police. We've never had a problem. To suggest they "closed us down" is hurtful.
We are, primarily, a business. What we provide delivers. To suggest we abandon this for some sing-alongs is economic lunacy. For the first two years I suffered Mark Lawson's Dead Horse Morris singing in the afternoons. Nothing drove people from my pub faster. (and I like Mark).
There are pubs who embrace the folk tradition. The Crown and Anchor and Elephant have been mentioned. The Bear (and now the Chimney Boy under new (same) ownership). The Three Tuns and the Mechanics. The Phoenix.
Richard, if you have the courage to do so, I'll gladly chat to you about it. But, in the mean time, I'd be happier if you didn't act so devisively. The Hop festival is in jeopardy ~ don't be the one to destroy it.

Chris

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 11:52 AM

Thanks for the suggestions FloraG, I have added them to my "2011 Hop Fest list" so I don't forget anything!   have also posted this link to one of the organisersso they can see the comments. The program was in a new format this year and free. We certanly could have done a better advert and will next year. Not sure if I would have time to be on the comittee this year but will certainly help.

Richard, didn't mean folkies were light drinkers, I might have worded that one better, in fact I am in awe of many! One of the things we had already discussed was the order of play, I think your suggestion is good and we may start with more folk, build to the blues/rock then wind back down to the folk. We don't want to go too late outside for obvious reasons.

Pricing is simple Richard, I am limited to where I can buy my beers, and I certainly don't have the buying power of 'Spoons. They have a huge turnover that I don't. I can't buy for what they sell, I know people find that hard to see. There is a million blogs etc on various trade sites on the wholesale beer prices to tenanted/leased pubs so I won't add it to this one! I really like Flara's suggestion on deposits, we could do more rigid ones, more green and better to drink out of, deposit great idea! Maybe the others are Free Houses again they have a better buying power than I.

I agree that utilising the rooms might work, the park area is a short walk, but stewarding would be a problem and it would detach it from the centre.

Thanks for your comments.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 09:39 AM

Well, it's the first time I've ever heard of folkies being accused of being light drinkers.

By "Loud" let me clarify. The Wine Vaults band that I particularly noticed was playing sort of US-blues-cock-rock and it was audible from the other side of the car park - probably about one-ish Saturday afternoon. You don't need that pressure in a pub garden. It invades the space in which acoustic and folk song can be sung. I've done LOUD with one of my PA rigs at the Command House at Chatham, and had sound complaints from the middle of Rochester but that was for metal bands.

As I said, the Railway was audible from the campsite.

What might work for you at the Wine Vaults and for the Railway would be starting the days with a folk session indoors, going over to rock later - and/or having a smaller rig somewhere so that a folk band could take a half hour slot while fully electric bands changed over (taking a fair bit of pressure off the soundmen too). That used to be done in the Venue in Gravesend (it's a plumbing and bathroom shop now alas).

Indeed if the Railway tamed its sound engineers it could probably manage a sing in the front bar while still having electric music in the yard at the back - subject to morris drums outside the front windows (a problem you'd also have, as would the Chimney Boy if using the front bars for acoustic).

The Chimney Boy could have folk upstairs in its folk club room - or if the building was safe, in the old stables where the folk club used to be.

What I don't yet fully understand is the apparent pricing difficulty. Wetherspoons are selling good beer from all over the country down to £1.80 per pint (so I was told). When I have run folk sessions in local pubs they have sold beer profitably at £2.50 a pint. The Good Intent in Rochester sells good beer at £2.50 a pint (or thereabouts) with folk music.

The Cadet force building seems to do nothing musical.

There are one or two halls or rooms that seem to do nothing musical.

I suppose the park is too far away for an "acoustic" stage (ie some PA) is it?

This year the lager mentality got out of control, and the net result was trouble.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 09:18 AM

We had a great Hop festival time. Since starting sessions in the Crown and Anchor the landlord and lady have always made us welcome. This year, the last hour of the Saturday evening session had a particular magic to it as we had a perfect blend of voices - no voice too loud or too nasal, and a good range on the harmonies. We had the best of Priory, Gundulf, Liberty and the Good Intent as well as the usual suspects from the Thames side mummers.

We also had a pie for lunch from the pie stall in the middle of town. Yummy.

There were fewer Morris sides this year but I suspect that was to do with the meet in London. I think the music stages were a bit too loud - it makes playing for the morris difficult and may put some morris sides off. Perhaps, Nuala, you could pass that on to the committee - a 20% reduction in volume. I thought the music stages were also less folky than in previous years - quite good bands from what we heard of them but not our taste. I think the town could get away with only having the market stage and using the second stage for children.

Cambridge and Ely festivals both asked for a deposit for the plastic glasses this year. Is that a way forward to keep the beer prices down?

The Punch and Judy show was well attended but there may be a case for providing something else for the children. I played for the childrens entertainer at Broadstairs this year, and he is an eceptionally good one. He gets the children to sing and dance, and they que up to feed the dragon money.   

A note in the pub window saying musicians welcome tends to encourage session musicians in. A willingness to swich off the internal music is a must. A jug of free beer once the session has started is a bonus. There are some people who are very good at attracting others to sessions and then running them, but it was not clear where any sessions would be welcome.   

I thought what was on where was poorly advertised. I was asked by several people where the sessions were and I was not able to tell them, except for our evening one. Information at the camp site on Friday night would be helpful.

Nuala, I'm really glad you thought of using local bands and you want to be on the committee for next year as it would be a shame if the festival ceased.

FloraG

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Nualabs
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 06:35 AM

I find the comments very interesting, as the owner of The Old Wine Vaults and also a Special Constable in Faversham I feel you might want my point of view.

Last year was our first after taking over a pub that was horrible, we worked hard to build it into a "grown up" pub, we have CAMRA LocALE and Cask Marque status. We are proud of our now great reputaton for great Ale and Cider, good food and a relaxed atmoosphere. Something that may not be reflected at Hop Fest!

On the music line up we had, we started on Friday night with Labyrith, an accoustic band as it was inside. They played for no fee, we made a generous donation to their chosen charity (Fynvola-a local one) and they had collecting jars which visitors and locals alike gave to. They also host an accoustic session on the third Sunday of the month here, local musicians come along and play, very laid back and relaxed. Also new up and coming performers in the area get the chance to get public performance experience.

Saturday, Get Carter, another local band, then Steve Bolton, local, then 4 Cohonies, local, Then Sur Le Docks, Belgian, punk folk.
Get Carter, Terry Carter can't do enough for young, up and coming musicians. He even left his sound engineer there for a young local group to have a short set for experience.
Steve Bolton, the people loved him.
The 4 Cohonies, a local "middle aged" group who have reformed and were brilliant.
Sur Le Docks, well no describing them! Brilliant muscicians who really got everyone going. These were inside and accoustic!

Sunday Get Carter again then the Trouser Trumpets, both again were brilliant.

We have to use amplified music in the garden, it's big. Last year we had drop in sessions hosted by Bob Kenward, a lovely man and great musician. However this cost us a considerable amount of money and did not return in sales. I have talked to Ernie who runs the Hop Fest and agreed that we need to let people know that we are willing to let musicians come and play informally. However I had none contact us before hand or I would have been more than willing to sort something out. Communication is a two way street and I am not knowledgable about the folk scene, Ernie helps me on this! If you want to set up in my pub and just have a sing along, ask me!

Prices, I pay for my bands, I don't get any sponsonrship from the council, commitee funds, or Sheps (like the Elephant I don't and won' sell Sheps!). The plastic glasses are a considerable expense at £26 a box, I have to pay door staff, unlike other pubs that need them but are not forced to have them (hang over form the hole in the wall days), however for everyone's peace of mind I would have them so no one's night is ruied by idiots. Staff costing for the weekend is huge. Now, ulike other pubs I decided to round down, so my premium beers that are normally £3.10 a pint were £3, we had 8 cask ales on and 3 ciders. ext year I will have to charge more, I made a mistake, I did not take into account the plastic and more to the point the wastage that happens when serving at speed. I agree this is not your problem but we did not all just hike prices. However we are businesses, if we pubs closed as they are not making money what kind of Hop Fest would it be? A tent on the local rec?

Last year we had music inside during the day (folk music) and the pub was noisey, this year it was in the garden and there was plenty of places that were quieter inside.

Lastly the "blood running in the drains". There were problems at two pubs out of the town centre, neither of which I would hazard a guess HopFest visitors would be going to. The police informed us in the town centre, as the pubs shut as we would have a flood of people heading into the town. We need this kind on info to keep our venues and customers safe. I spoke to Chris from The Railway last night as my staff and his staff enjoyed a well deserved meal. He made the decision to close to prevent a good day being ruined. We immediately stopped entry to the pub but carried on serving existing customers and continued with the music. My thought is that it is better not to be gready and take "bad money" to prevent trouble, ensure safety and let everyoe leave with good time memories. We had NO trouble over the weekend and I know there were 5 arrests, all out of the town centre. The Licencing officer came in and congratulated us on our staffing, organisation and communication systems for the weekend.

I am always more than willing to take on board advice for next year, but this must meet with the requirements of making money. Next year the Hop Fest is at risk, I and The Spice Lounge have already discussed how local businesses can help. We intend to attend committee meetings and have told them so. Hopefully more will be willing to help. I pay for my bands and will continue to do so, the music stages bands have to be paid for, so not sure how this will work next year. This is not just a business decision, I passionately believe Faversham is a great town and the Hop Festival is a great weekend. [e-mail] for any suggestions on how we can improve. Thanks for your time.
Nuala

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Mark Stevens
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 02:32 PM

I'm sorry to hear that, Richard.
I haven't been there since the 1990's, ..and 2003.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 01:50 PM

Well, from a singer's point of view that was not a good Chaversham.

There was a coterie of Englishmen pretending to be Irish playing Irish tunes (with the occasional hackneyed Irish song: I heard the Fields of Athenrae, Tell me Ma, and McAlpine's Fusiliers before I gave up and left) in the back bar of the Bear (where the beer was £3.30 a pint).

There were two unofficial song/mixed sessions - the Friday and the Saturday nights - in the Crown and Anchor, dominated by the usual suspects. The beer was I think £3.40 a pint.

As far as I know, that was it. Totally no other folk song or tune sessions at all.

The electric bands outside the Shepherd Neame office, in the back garden of the Wine Vaults, and in the back yard of the Railway were so loud that any unamplified music in reasonable distance would have been impossible. Indeed the Railway stage could be heard from the campsite. NB - these are not stages run by the festival.

I am told that on Saturday night the blood was running in the drains, with the Railway, the Albion, and the Phoenix all closed by the police. However the Mechanics Arms, Three Tuns and the other pub between them (name escapes my for the moment - might it be the Bull?) were quiet and peopled only by locals on Saturday night, I am told.

The lavatories in the school did their usual - no wonder they call them "bogs".

Police were on and off the campsite at the school pretty frequently, and I think had to remove some local yoof.

Some local yoof (possibly other ones) were trying to intimidate female morris dancers and/or start fights with younger male morris dancers.

However the Hells Grannies on the motorised shopping trolleys were sidesplitting, and the 9 ft tall aliens in what looked like carbon fibre exoskeletons were impressive too.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 03:43 AM

Very Droll Mr Horse (and very accurate too, sadly!)

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Dead Horse
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 03:17 AM

You want putting down Ralphie?
OK. Here goes mate.
Your ugly.
Hows that? :-)

(just my standard reaction to anyone who wants 'putting down' for anything. Heh heh)

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 07:17 AM

Hey Gadaffi....Put me down for one...!!
Ralphie

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 06:13 AM

This seems as good a time to plug my new book 'Lenham Camp - Eighteenth Century Dance Music from Harrietsham' which the Faversham Society have kindly agreed to publish. Copies may be on sale at the Fleur de Lis Heritage Centre priced £4,95. (See Lenham Camp thread).
PS Some great duet concertina tunes in it, I dare say!

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 03:56 AM

Earplugs and dark glasses please.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: melodeonboy
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 03:11 AM

It also serves well-kept Master Brew to loud-shirted accordion players! :)

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 03:19 PM

Well, it plans to be prepared to put on electric bands and serve chilled lagers to oafs, anyway.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 02:28 PM

Looks like tha Railway will be prepared, at any rate!


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Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 02:26 PM

It all kicks off tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 11:09 AM

Yes. A counsel of last resort I fear.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 11:08 AM

Just spoken to the Elephant, they've got someone booked for Friday night, but nothing else planned.

So I guess that if people turned up there, bought a drink and began to entertain themselves with a few traditional vocals then Jim wouldn't object.

Otherwise its the C & A just along the road.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 08:14 AM

Hmm - not promising!

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 05:13 AM

This covers the Sheps pubs, but there's no mention of organised singaround sessions. The organisers obviously can't be bothered and the landlords don't seem to have cottoned on to the potential!

RAILWAY HOTEL        
Friday Evening        
8.30        Ivan's Allstars
Saturday        
12.00        Jazz Police
1.00        Jam Sandwich
2.45        Chimney Boys
4.45        Sur Les Docks
6.45        Fat River Band
9.00        Goosebumps
Sunday        
12.00        Freeloaders
1.15        Sur Les Docks
2.35        Run VT
3.45        Hot Rats
5.00        Jumbo Gumbo
        
THE SUN INN        
Friday Evening        
8.00        Rockstox
Saturday Afternoon        
        Fabulous Fez Heads
Sunday Afternoon        
(In the garden)        
        Prince Valiants
        
        
        
        
THE BEAR        
Saturday and Sunday        
Accoustic Sessions        
both days all day        
        



                                                                                                BREWERY STAGE        
COURT STREET        
        
Saturday        
12.15        The Hot Rats
1.15        The Crossfire
2.15        Hullabaloo
3.15        Sneakin' Sally
4.15        Jam Sandwich
Sunday        
12.15        Byrne
1.15        The Chix
2.15        The Chimney Boys
3.15        The Fat River Band
4.15        Jam Sandwich
        
        
THE CROWN &        
ANCHOR        
        A friendly welcome
        awaits should you
        wish to call in for
        a glass or two of
        Shepherd Neame's
        Award Winning Ale!
        
        
        
        
THE ALBION TAVERN        
Live music thoughout the         
Hop Festival Weekend.         
Food will be on sale from        
a marquee outside        

                                                                        THE ANCHOR        
        
        
Saturday         
1-3pm        The Radlers
4-6pm        Blues Bandits
7-9pm        Trench City
Sunday        
1-3pm        Genesis In The Cage
4-6pm        The Leigh Highwood
        Band
7-9pm        The Blue Devils
        
        
        
        
        
THE BULL INN        
        Escape the hustle of
        the festival for a pie
        and a pint and watch
        the Morris Sides
        perform!
        Special Hop Festival
        Menu!
        
        
        
        
THE MECHANICS        
ARMS        
Sunday 3pm - 7pm        
Mike Kenton        
        
                        
        THE MARKET INN        
Friday Evening        
8.30        Jail Bird
Saturday        
1.00        Mel Harris 60's Show
2.45        Hot Rats
4.45        Camine
6.45        Chimney Boys
9.00        Jumbo Gumbo
Sunday        
1.00        Pepper Set
3.00        Freeloader Retro Show
4.45        Goosebumps
        
        
        
        
THE CHIMNEY        
BOY        
We are located opposite the        
Preston Street Stage where        
you can enjoy live music         
during the day on Saturday        
and Sunday         
        
        
        
        
        
THE THREE TUNS        
Saturday & Sunday        
Live Music over the         
Weekend and a         
Charity BBQ        
        
                                                                                        
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
                                                                                                
        K/van

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 04:33 AM

I'm inclined to think that the Elephant might be good for evenings for those of us who do not want to be up the road in the Couronne and Onanist. Nice Beer. The Railway is also passable. I'd rather not be the wrong side of South Street. It's a shame that there is no list of pubs on the Hop Festival website. Was it the Hole in the Wall that was so crowded and noisy last year? How about the Chimney Boy - players could even go upstairs if so permitted? But surely there are some sessions that are already organised aren't there, rather than guerilla ones?

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 03:41 AM

P.S.
There won't be ANY rain at all.

K/van

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 03:38 AM

If the most interesting thing that we can think of to post about the Hop Festival is the weather then that's a pretty sorry state of affairs.

(That wasn't a very elegant sentence,was it? Still I think that it conveys my sentiments!)

There's a free-for-all instrumentally at the Bear, as usual. I wonder whether or not it might be viable to get some singing going in the garden at the Bull. It's been done in the past and I'm sure that there are enough people who would be interested; the difficulty is getting word around.

k/van

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 03:31 AM

Met-check now says some rain early Friday afternoon, and some Saturday morning. Met office says no rain but not that hot.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 05:13 PM

Met-check is alive again and is still promising good wevva.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 06:39 AM

Wish I could get down to see my old mate Kampervan but unfortunately I need to recharge my batteries after Whitby and Shrewsbury but have a good un.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 04:11 AM

Wevva, particularly for Saturday, starting to look quite promising.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Essex Girl
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 03:20 PM

I'll also be looking for a session on Friday night, i we get a few more perhaps we can take over a corner somewhere.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 12:20 PM

The weather will be fine, 18 - 20C with a little bit of cloud.

The seaweed, the pine cones and the old war wound are all saying the same thing.

Only wish it was as easy to find a good session as it is to find good weather!

K/van

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 08:39 AM

Metcheck has changed its mind and is not now predicting rain. That would be nice.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 08:41 AM

and at the Chimney Boy pub, just a few doors down from the miserable citizen, in the room where meets the Faversham Folk Club there is a noise limiter; fitted following the complaint.
Al

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 04:40 AM

According to metcheck, it's wet Friday night, and wet until late afternoon Saturday. I think that puts paid to ideas of the mandoplank-mandobassplank and pedals with which to annoy traditionalists, so it becomes more important to find a nice pub in which to play acoustic and get wet on the inside only.

Incidentally, I noticed in the local papers just the other day that the Hop Fest has only ever had one noise complaint in its entire history, - and as a result the local council has made a noise control order requiring the monitoring of sound levels outside the complainant's house. This year however he is away on holiday for the duration and the house is empty - and the jobsworths STILL require the monitoring of the sound levels outside his house for the duration.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Kampervan
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 06:01 AM

But back to the original question.

Singarounds seem to materialise at different pubs every year.

Thre's not a lot in the way of pre-arranged sessions. I generally wander around until I (hopefully) find something, then stay until it finishes.

The Crown & Anchor is normally a safe bet for the late session each day cos it's closest to the campsite. Have had some good singarounds there, but the atmosphere is heavily dependent on which members of various organisations happen to be trying to run the evening.

Anyone hearing of any planned sessions, or anyone thinking of running one, please let us know.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 07:18 AM

Will admit. Last time I was there (two or so years ago) The Chav ratio had taken an alarming upward curve...I blame that Wethespoons pub.
Nonetheless, Hope it goes well!

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 11:42 AM

Noted, Graham.

Ralphie, I did not coin "Chaversham". Others did.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: banjoman
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 06:26 AM

so Richard Bridge wants to "Self Agrandisise" somewhere else this year. Glad I wont have to suffer it again

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 03:04 AM

Like the way you've re-named it.
Hope it really hasn't sunk to such depths.

Subject: RE: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 02:53 AM

Refresh.

Subject: Chaversham Hop Festival (3-5 Sept 2010)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 04:36 PM

Where will be the best sing and playarounds, bereft of intrusive self aggrandisement?

If the Crown and Anchor is not suitable, will the Elephant perhaps oblige?