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BS: The Changing Face of America?

Ebbie 01 Sep 10 - 11:24 AM
Amos 01 Sep 10 - 11:57 AM
Bill D 01 Sep 10 - 11:57 AM
Bobert 01 Sep 10 - 12:12 PM
Ebbie 01 Sep 10 - 12:29 PM
Wesley S 01 Sep 10 - 12:35 PM
Ebbie 01 Sep 10 - 12:38 PM
katlaughing 01 Sep 10 - 12:59 PM
Little Hawk 01 Sep 10 - 01:02 PM
Ebbie 01 Sep 10 - 01:15 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 01 Sep 10 - 01:53 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Sep 10 - 02:03 PM
Little Hawk 01 Sep 10 - 02:26 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Sep 10 - 02:39 PM
pdq 01 Sep 10 - 02:49 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 01 Sep 10 - 03:10 PM
Richard Bridge 01 Sep 10 - 04:45 PM
artbrooks 01 Sep 10 - 05:23 PM
Ebbie 01 Sep 10 - 05:40 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Sep 10 - 05:40 PM
pdq 01 Sep 10 - 05:49 PM
Bill D 01 Sep 10 - 06:13 PM
katlaughing 01 Sep 10 - 08:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Sep 10 - 09:26 PM
artbrooks 01 Sep 10 - 11:32 PM
Ebbie 02 Sep 10 - 12:59 AM
artbrooks 02 Sep 10 - 10:00 AM
Ebbie 02 Sep 10 - 10:26 AM
artbrooks 02 Sep 10 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Neil D 02 Sep 10 - 12:35 PM
Ebbie 02 Sep 10 - 12:55 PM
Ebbie 02 Sep 10 - 10:35 PM
GUEST,Songbob 02 Sep 10 - 11:12 PM
Ebbie 02 Sep 10 - 11:19 PM
akenaton 03 Sep 10 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 03 Sep 10 - 10:22 PM
GUEST,Goose (underemployed) Gander 04 Sep 10 - 01:32 AM
akenaton 05 Sep 10 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,Patsy 06 Sep 10 - 10:46 AM
Stringsinger 06 Sep 10 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 06 Sep 10 - 12:11 PM

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Subject: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 11:24 AM

Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski has conceded defeat to challenger Joe Miller. Miller is supported by Sarah Palin and the Tea Party Express. Murkowski is just one of several legislators who have been booted out this primary election season in favor of those I consider to hold extreme views.

My question: Will so many Tea Party-sympathizing candidates make it easier for Democratic candidates to win in the Presidential Election of 2012 or does this signify a changing America?

Read what the Tea Party candidates are touting- is that really who we have become?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 11:57 AM

It's certainly not what I have become, nor you, Ebb...

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 11:57 AM

"Will so many Tea Party-sympathizing candidates make it easier for Democratic candidates to win ..."

scholars bicker....personally, I shudder.
It 'should' make the general elections easier for 'saner' sorts of candidates, but if the economy is still bad, there are far too many who will vote for anyone whose platform is "blame the incumbents"

What we see is a dramatic demonstration of the pros & cons of 'universal suffrage'.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 12:12 PM

I think the Tea Praty can only help the Dems if the Dems have the balls to do some serious "pushing back"... Right now the Dems appear to be doin' the "Rope-a-Dope"... I mean, it isn't that they individually aren't pushing back; it's just that the antics or the right is getting the attention and with it the microphone... It also doen't hurt the right that most of the media seems to be leaning right-of-cenetr these days...

I mean, folks have written the Dems off in the mid-terms and, yeah, if they don't mount a major push back campaign then they will have a misable November but...

...if the Dems will take off the gloves and use words like "non-truth, lies and mythology" in the PR and expose the Repubs strategy then it will make the Repubs have to retreat to a more defensive position... If that occurs then November could be just fine for Dems...

But NO... We are not turning into Tea Baggers...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 12:29 PM

I dunno. There are some alarming signs.

A week ago I took some books into my local used-book store. They choose the ones they want and return the others.

They turned down "The Bridge" a great read about Obams's life and rise to power.

They said they haven't sold one Obama book in four months.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 12:35 PM

I'm hoping that the Tea Baggers will pull votes from the Republicians and make it easier for the Democrats to "divide and conquer". I think there are a lot of moderate Republicians that think the Tea Bag crew are pretty whacko. They just aren't very vocal about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 12:38 PM

Again, I dunno, Wesley. This morning's announcement by the GOP implies that the grand old party is heading for the buttered side:

Major GOP Fundraiser


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 12:59 PM

Wesley, that's what my Rog says and he knows a lot of old time GOP members who just shake their heads and, he says, will NOT vote in favour of such extremists. They may be getting a lot of press these days, but the majority of Americans are fairly quiet about it all and will vote what they are most familiar with...which will not necessarily be the tea baggers. I was actually really surprised a friend of mine didn't even know who Beck was...I figured in WY of all places, he would be a prominent figure in the popular media. That she didn't know, and she is a very well-informed person, gives me much hope that many others also do not give him or the tea baggers the time of day.

I have to say I agree with Bobert, in some respects. The Dems DO need to be more on the offensive, but on the whole I think the tea baggers are splitting the GOP, maybe beyond redemption.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 01:02 PM

Whenever the economy is bad, the party in power is in big trouble. They get the blame for it. The majority of voters couldn't care less about "last year" or "two years ago" or what the last administration did or didn't do. They don't have a long enough attention span for that (nor does the News Media!). They care about what's happening right now....and right now the economy is not doing well.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 01:15 PM

The current issue of Time Magazine has a long - and detailed and interesting - article about the plans and the current efforts the government is making. Given that it sounds to me like the Administration got on them to do a story about it, it convinces me that a great many things are not known well enough by us, the people.

Recovery Act

"The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 â€" President Obama's $787 billion stimulus â€" has been marketed as a jobs bill, and that's how it's been judged. The White House says it has saved or created about 3 million jobs, helping avoid a depression and end a recession. Republicans mock it as a Big Government boondoggle that has failed to prevent rampant unemployment despite a massive expansion of the deficit. Liberals complain that it wasn't massive enough.

"It's an interesting debate. Politically, it's awkward to argue that things would have been even worse without the stimulus, even though that's what most nonpartisan economists believe. But the battle over the Recovery Act's short-term rescue has obscured its more enduring mission: a long-term push to change the country. It was about jobs, sure, but also about fighting oil addiction and global warming, transforming health care and education, and building a competitive 21st century economy. Some Republicans have called it an under-the-radar scramble to advance Obama's agenda â€" and they've got a point."


Read More


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 01:53 PM

From what I've heard, both sides are leery of the Tea Party, and the speculation goes on about which 'side'(?), they will pull votes from.

Personally, I think BOTH sides have Failed the American public, and therefore the world, as well!

Our system is the best, so far, that the world has seen, but the dishonest moral decay within the hearts of our 'Representatives' pandering to the 'weakest common denominator' of integrity, within the public, has brought this country, with it's ideals down!

Care to argue in favor of the weakest common denominator of integrity?
It might say something about YOU!!!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 02:03 PM

So-called teabaggers, if they win the primary as they did in Alaska, will run as Republicans. There are no plans or organization for a separate party. Republican congressmen will mostly keep their mouths shut; they will not quarrel with new members, but control them in committee.

The public is upset but don't really have a target. They turn on the party in power, and may defeat their candidates in 2010 elections.
2012, however, may see another shift; two years is sufficient for opinions to moderate and/or change if the economy improves fast enough.

A BBC News analyst yesterday said the Middle Eastern fiasco has cost the U.S. $ 3/4 trillion in direct expenses so far. People still don't realize that this is the primary problem, but attack several serious smaller problems that are in process of correction, such as the world downturn resulting from bad banking decisions.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 02:26 PM

"Our system is the best, so far, that the world has seen"

Huh??? On what real basis can anyone make such a sweeping assumption about any one society? Let alone the USA...!

It is a standard conceit of a great many societies that their system is "the best, so far, that the world has seen". I bet the French, the British, the Germans, the Russians, the Japanese, the Romans, the Greeks, the Spanish, the Chinese, the Austrians, the Poles, the Israelis, and God knows who else have made such grand assumptions about themselves many times over, and more than a few of them probably still think so at present...and tell it to their school children.

It's silly and pretentious. The fact is, no one system on this Earth can claim to be "the best" across the board, because they all have a variety of strengths and weaknesses, blind spots and areas of brilliance, gifts and failings.

You have to live in a number of different places to realize that they all have their beauty and their ugliness, and not one of them can ever get away for long with imagining that it is simply "the best" in an overall sense. Life just isn't that simple. But your politicians and historians, whose job is to pump up patriotism and create grand mythology so that another generation of kids will willingly serve as cannon fodder in some future conflict, would love you to think that it is so!

No one society is "the best". They're all a mixed picture of good and not so good, and they're always changing. You cannot make the wind stand still and then say: "this breeze right here and now is the best, so far, that the world has seen".

Furthermore, any nation that constantly teaches its children that "this society is the best society on Earth" is bent on one single thing: conquest. Other nations will suffer because of that, and the conqueror will eventually see a day when his ambitions surpass his reach.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 02:39 PM

Slowly, Americans are realizing that others have reached or are reaching the same level of economic development and are embracing the similar cultures (for good or bad!).
China eventually will surpass, simply because of their population, although they are trying to balance a free and a controlled economy at the same time- one or the other will slowly disappear.
The U. S. must reconcile itself to being a productive, peaceful country, like a few EU nations, Canada and Australia, Japan and a handful of others. Entrepreneurship and education must be encouraged and kept at high levels.

The "we're the best" must be reserved for team sports.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: pdq
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 02:49 PM

From the Times Magaize article above:

      "Critics have complained that while the New Deal left behind iconic monuments —   courthouses, parks, the Lincoln Tunnel, the Grand Coulee Dam — this New New Deal will leave a mundane legacy of sewage plants, repaved roads, bus repairs and caulked windows. In fact, it will create new icons too: solar arrays, zero-energy border stations, an eco-friendly Coast Guard headquarters, an "advanced synchrotron light source" in a New York lab. But its main legacy will be change. The stimulus passed just a month after Obama's inauguration, but it may be his signature effort to reshape America..."

Herbert Hoover tried the Keynsian economc model as soon as the Great Depression started, about three years before Rooseveld tried the same approach. FDR's efforts kept the mess going for another decade than it should have lasted. The Great Deprsission ended due an external cause: Pearl Harbor.

The Obama stimulus bill authorized about $770 billion, the War In Iraq cost $775 billion. The first is money spent in just over one year, the Iraq effort was spread over 7 1/2 years.

We have a free Iraq to show for the war. Ask Joe Biden, who "addopted" the war as his child. We have nothing much to show for Obama's "stimutate this" package except 1/2 million fewer jobs than we had when the bill passed. Claiming that "x number of jobs would have been lost without the stimulus bill" is just grasping at straws by it proponants.

Non such thing can be proven and the US public is getting real tired of the PR nonsense.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 03:10 PM

What I meant by that, was a representative form of government, elected by a democratic process. What has happened, though, is it has been subverted, and changed, through slick, (and sometimes 'not so slick'), corruption...as opposed to monarchs, theocracies, dictatorships, and such. Even ol' Winston Churchill thought so, (speaking of the British Commonwealth), such as was Canada.

However, if you beg to differ, it's OK.

Bottom line, we once HAD a great system...RIP.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 04:45 PM

pdq, whoever said that it is blind rubbish.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 05:23 PM

I will be interested in seeing what Ms. Murkowski and other main-stream Republicans will be doing over the next two months. Will they hold their noses and support the party's candidates, keep silent, or will they even come out and support Democrats who, being mostly centrists anyway, probably represent positions closer to their own than those of the Tea Party? Likewise, I wonder about the vast majority of right-of-center Republican voters - will they vote for the party, for a candidate closer to what they believe in, or stay home? I suspect they will stay home, but that all remains to be seen.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 05:40 PM

FYI, this is the only part of pdq's post that was in the Times article:

"Critics have complained that while the New Deal left behind iconic monuments —   courthouses, parks, the Lincoln Tunnel, the Grand Coulee Dam — this New New Deal will leave a mundane legacy of sewage plants, repaved roads, bus repairs and caulked windows. In fact, it will create new icons too: solar arrays, zero-energy border stations, an eco-friendly Coast Guard headquarters, an "advanced synchrotron light source" in a New York lab. But its main legacy will be change. The stimulus passed just a month after Obama's inauguration, but it may be his signature effort to reshape America..."

Frankly, to me these don't seem a bad legacy: "sewage plants, repaved roads, bus repairs and caulked windows....solar arrays, zero-energy border stations, an eco-friendly Coast Guard headquarters, an "advanced synchrotron light source" in a New York lab."


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 05:40 PM

I think the majority of Republicans will support the party's candidates in 2010 elections- they are angry about several unrelated issues- But they may stay home in 2012 if the candidates in their districts are long on rhetoric but short on possible answers. I don't think Congress can do anything to appease them in the short term before the 2012 election and artbrooks may be right.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: pdq
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 05:49 PM

It doesn't matter who wins Congress this November because absolutely anything that the House and Senate will pass that will roll back any of Obama's agenda will be vetoed even if the legislation had bipartisan support.

Good news is that he will not be getting his huge energy tax increase this year or ever. Cap and Trade (aka Crap and Tax) is dead, so we no longer have to worry about paying twice as much for gasoline or paying twice as much to heat our houses this winter. Obstructionism can reap rewards.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 06:13 PM

There are many Republicans that are not pleased with the Tea Party and extremist views so many candidates are showing, but many, many Republicans have that basic attitude that 'anything that gets power back from the Democrats' is acceptable, and they'll hope that any extremists elected can be 'reasoned with' and guided one in office.

I suspect they'll have to re-think that in a couple years. I'd BET that independents who join them will regret it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 08:43 PM

Ebbie and others, if you want a nice antidote and a whole lot of hope to fill your hearts and minds, take a look at the myriad of folks, from all walks of life, all sizes, colours, ages, etc. who worked so hard to bring our troops home: Slide Show of MoveOn members, families, friends, and members of other organisations, i.e. VoteVets, Iraq Vets for Peace, etc., protesting throughout the years and the nation to end the war in Iraq. We are still at it; we're not going away, and I am proud to be one of the first members of this organization. Heck I wrote an op/ed piece on them when they were just starting up.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 09:26 PM

People in the EU and Canada wonder why gasoline is so cheap in the U. S.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 11:32 PM

Primarily because the US doesn't tax gasoline at any where near the same level - we'd rather go into debt to pay for necessary (and maybe unnecessary) government expenses than pay for them up front.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 12:59 AM

I don't know how much validity there is in my thought but - in the US, at least - when a product is locally produced the taxes levied tend to be lower, i.e. cigarettes in the American South (have been historically; don't know about now) cost much, much less than in the more northern states. I remember taking a couple of cartons with me from Oregon to Georgia and North Carolina- pretty dumb.

So, extrapolating from that: oil and gas are produced in the US, so the prices are lower. Does that sound logical?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 10:00 AM

This Wiki article may be useful, although it would be more so it the author(s) had taken the time to convert their data to a common set of currency/units of volume. One of the things they say (and I know that Wiki isn't an authoritative source all the time) is that the US sees gas taxes as road user taxes while most of Europe sees them as general revenue taxes.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 10:26 AM

That's a sharp difference, Art. The taxes on petrol in Europe - and in Canada? - are MUCH higher than they are in the US. Take away the taxes and the differences are not all that great.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 11:12 AM

That was exactly my point, Ebbie.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 12:35 PM

I think Ebbie is right to be concerned. I mean it would be nice to think that Republican primary victories by right-wing extremists will ensure Democrat victories in the general election, but what if people like Angle, Paul, Miller, etc. actually win in November and in so doing gain Congressional majorities for a Republican party that is more reactionary than ever before. We could be on a greasy downhill slope to a country with a disappearing middle class and no safety net in place. A more polarized mobocracy where majority rule means a trampling of minority rights. Remember when Bill Buckley and Goldwater et al used scorn and derision to cut any influence the Birchers might have on the Republican party. In our time the Koch brothers whose father helped found the John Birch Society are wielding more and more influence on the party and the conservative movement in general. I mean these people thought Ike was a Soviet operative. Is it any wonder they think Obama is a Commy, Nazi, Muslim terrorist with a deep seated hatred of white people?
   I've always thought the that the U.S. political pendulum is lopsided in a gravity-defying way. It swings from right to center and to the right again. You might argue that I'm seeing it from a left-wing perspective but think about it. What is considered exreme on the right: questioning Obama's nation of birth and his religion against provable facts to the contrary; overturning the 14th amendment and selectively applying the first: gutting the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Extreme views maybe, but increasingly being expressed by "mainstream" Republican candidates and office holders. Not to mention policies that have long been part of the mainstream Republican platform. Things like wanting to privatize Social Security (imagine how devastating that would have been to elders when Wall Street tanked two years ago), deregulating industry and investment banking (moves that have recently proven to be disastrous and yet still have much support in mainstream conservative circles), cutting taxes for the richest segment of society at the expense of everyone else. By contrast, national healthcare (real universal healthcare like a single-payer system)and legislation to conserve the environment for future generations (Republicans decry passing on a deficit to our children, but aren't the least bit concerned about passing on a toxic planet) are considered part of an extreme left-wing agenda in this country even though they would be mainstream in almost every other Democracy in the world. Republicans tend to think that the U.S. is the last bastion of democracy and free enterprise and the rest of the world is wallowing in socialism but I say they are the ones looking at things from a skewed perspective.
   So I hope that right-wing tea people winning Republican primaries translates into Democratic wins in the general, but my fear is that anti-incumbency because of the sluggish recovery (I think the banking system is intentionally curtailing lending to small businesses in order to slow the recovery till after the mid-terms), especially in employment, might give the GOP congressional majorities. If they win back the Senate, don't be surprised if they immediately change Senate rules to deny Dems the use of the filibuster that they themselves have so abused since Obama got in office (more filibusters in 18 months than in the previous 220 years). So if you don't want to see us sliding down that slippery slope towards intolerance, financial inequity and irreversible environmental devastation, then the most important thing you can do is get out the vote. Pollsters and pundits are saying that the one trend that could reverse the congressional minorities is the lack of enthusiasm on the part of Democrats (Progressives feel like they are being elbowed aside by a White House and legislature that have shown too much willingness to compromise with the Right, leading to watered down healthcare and financial reform) and frenetic energy from Republicans. So don't sit it out on November 2 progressive Dems! Obama may have proven to be the centrist you should have known he was in the first place and a handful of Bluedogs may have cut our own party off at the knees at times, but a Republican majority fueled by the right wing of the party (tea people and Birchers) will be our worst nightmare.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 12:55 PM

Hear, hear!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 10:35 PM

In a couple of venomous ways I would like to see the GOP flounder as it falls all over itself while embracing tea partiers. A saner version of myself wants above all not to see the tea partiers get into power; I would rather see the traditional (Is there such a thing anymore?) Republicans get into the highest office than live through the ruination the tea partiers would inflict upon this country.

Here is an interesting story of the GOP fighting its own:

InHouse Fight

WASHINGTON — Delaware Republicans call Senate hopeful Christine O'Donnell a liar who "could not be elected dog catcher" in a fierce attack that underscores GOP fears of the tea party-backed candidate knocking off top recruit Rep. Mike Castle and winning the nomination.
Stunned by tea partier Joe Miller's upset of Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski, Republicans are taking no chances in Delaware, which holds its primary Sept. 14. The party sees Castle, the state's lone congressman since 1993, as the best candidate for the seat long held by Vice President Joe Biden.

"Republicans circulated audio of a testy, 22-minute interview that O'Donnell had with radio station WGMD on Thursday. Party officials also have said she inflated her resume and made flat-out untrue statements while being dogged by questions about tax liens and foreclosures. Castle says she has misrepresented his record."

Lots more


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 11:12 PM

The face of America is not being changed by the Tea-kluxers -- it's being exposed. The sane among us look on in alarm as a formerly decent political party chases short-term gains at the cost of its soul. The Tea gaggers are rubbing salt into our wounds, and the 'formal' part of the Republican Party does nothing, hoping that the divisive, caustic, and paranoid tack will gain them power again.

However, they have no plan, other than to do what they always do when in power, and the country can't afford that. Extend the Bush tax cuts? AND cut the deficit? To quote a character in a TV series of long ago, "Does Not Compute! Does Not Compute!" Perhaps another war? That worked so well before. Iran, here we come!

And kick out all them Mexicans, too. Never mind what they do for the country (even with piss-poor jobs, they spend their wages, and, if they have withholding taken out, the illegal ones can't get it back) AND disregard what that does to their support among Hispanic voters. The short-term trumps the future.

So the economy was driven into the ditch by the Republicans, but they still want to drive, and refuse to take their foot off the brake unless we hand them the keys again.

We can't afford them. Not fiscally, not emotionally, not intellectually. And their desire to grab the sleazy easy temporary gain by supporting the Tea Party makes it worse, in my view.

So the face of America hasn't been changed as much as the underside has been exposed. Alas.

Bob Clayton


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 11:19 PM

I'm hoping that the underside, being exposed, will lose its moldy nastiness, or at least, be nasty enough that we will all see it for what it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 04:22 PM

"So the economy was driven into the ditch by the Republicans,"

Sorry!!!   Dont you realise that a capitalist economy is always on automatic pilot?

Who happened to be in power when the crash occurred is completely immaterial. In the same circumstances Obama would have encouraged de-regulation to boost growth, just as our Labour politicians did.

In a capitalist economy growth is a sign of political success...it can mean another four years of snouts in the trough.

The crashes will get progressively more serious as the politicians gamble with ever higher stakes....doesn't matter what they call themselves, they all are obliged to play the same game.

For once in my lifetime I see in America a grass roots movement, which is not a protest, but an attempt to wrench power away from the systems string pullers.....if you want change, stop whining and put your shoulders to the wheel!.......Nobody says you have to LIKE it!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 10:22 PM

Well, Ake, you hit it on the head, again! Personally, I think it would be great if just one of the top politicians would get a real job..and have the real concerns of real people!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: GUEST,Goose (underemployed) Gander
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 01:32 AM

The Democrats are corporate whores. Their only saving grace is that the Republicans are worse. So, come November, I guess I'll do what I usually do: hold my nose and vote Democratic. Again.

Thank gawd for democracy!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 11:44 AM

I make my living by hittin' things on the button Sanity...granite, slate, whinstone....its all grist to the mill.

Looks like the white queen is gettin' ready to step up and save the Dems....and the system!

Or maybe America will remember the words of a young student from five decades ago, who described the machinery of a university.

That description now applies to our economic and social system.

There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 10:46 AM

The people who tried to change the face of Britain by voting in Cameron (for a change) are beginning to wonder what the heck they have done and ruing the day. Everytime Cameron opens his mouth he sounds more and more like a useless plonker everyday with his little Liberal lackie following behind. Things could be worse!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 11:20 AM

aketon, if you don't take part, then you have accepted it as you have pointed out.
As Frank Rich has recently put it, "Freedom's just another word....." to paraphrase
Lightfoot. Today, it's mostly freedom from responsibility. The government is not the enemy. It's the people who decide how they will be governed that hold the key.

One of the ways to resist is not to participate in the negative aspects of governing such
as determining who will go to give up their lives for a useless war. We don't need to support any wars. This is certainly a game-changer in American foreign policy. Preemptive war is new to America as is the acceptance of torture and violation of privacy.

911 really changed nothing. It just solidified the negative aspects of power that were latent and provided an excuse for their intensification. It gave rise to the Bush Dictatorship that was unfortunately consensual since there was no outrage at his
selection by the Supreme Court of the US.

Voting for Obama was supposed to fix a lot of that but it hasn't. It's still business as usual.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Changing Face of America?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 12:11 PM

Stringsinger: "
Voting for Obama was supposed to fix a lot of that but it hasn't. It's still business as usual."

Well, Finally! Somebody noticed!! Now, ever wonder why?
Hint: The answer is found within my posts...over and over, again...and instead of people taking it to heart, they just, like narrow minded partisans, just call me names, as if I'm a 'right winger'...or bigot, and just FAIL to see, that the ineffectual left, has them brain-locked, just where they want them..IMPEDING, ANY REAL progress....just static, status quo! As long as people are bickering, and NOT identifying the REAL problems..it shall, as you said, stay, "business as usual"!!!!!... and after all, THAT"S WHAT THEY WANT!

GfS


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