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Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?

Tim Chesterton 10 Sep 10 - 01:46 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 10 Sep 10 - 02:15 AM
pavane 10 Sep 10 - 05:54 AM
Tim Chesterton 10 Sep 10 - 11:35 AM
Ralphie 11 Sep 10 - 12:18 AM
The Sandman 11 Sep 10 - 06:26 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 12 Sep 10 - 05:39 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 12 Sep 10 - 05:50 AM
Phil Edwards 12 Sep 10 - 06:31 AM
Murray MacLeod 12 Sep 10 - 06:59 AM
The Sandman 12 Sep 10 - 08:12 AM
The Sandman 12 Sep 10 - 12:04 PM
Murray MacLeod 12 Sep 10 - 04:22 PM
The Sandman 12 Sep 10 - 04:45 PM
Tim Chesterton 12 Sep 10 - 09:30 PM
Ralphie 13 Sep 10 - 12:58 AM
pavane 13 Sep 10 - 04:27 AM
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Subject: Nic Jones/Master Kilby
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 01:46 AM

Does anyone know what tuning Nic Jones used when he played 'Master Kilby'?


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 02:15 AM

Not sure, but I can do a fair approximation using CGCGCD.
Obviously hopelessly bad in comparison to Nic. But worth a go if you're stuck!
Have fun.


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: pavane
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 05:54 AM

Don't know about Nic - but is this any help?

Master Kilby, from Michael Raven


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 11:35 AM

That looks pretty interesting - thanks!

Still like to know about Nic's tuning, though. I tried playing it in CGCGCD, but I'm not very familiar with that tuning...

Oh well!


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: Ralphie
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 12:18 AM

Hi Tim.
Yes, it takes a while to get your head around it.
Try ecperimenting with A7 chord shapes up and down the fret board. that should give you a start.
Once you've grasped the concept it's a really fun tuning.
Canadee-I-O is in the same tuning, although I think Nic down tuned the whole guitar half a tone to suit his voice!


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 06:26 PM

Ralphie, all guitar tunings are fun.
more to the point, is to get a little understanding of what you are doing, messing about with a7 shapes, can be fun, but it only gets you so far.
the best way to understand a tuning[ imo]is to draw a diagram of the fretboard, and fill out the frets with every note,by doing this you can see all the possibilities, all the different chord or dyad inversions, this applies whether it is cgcgcd, dadgad, or standard or what ever. .   that is the best way to get your head round anything by understanding what you are doing, and then practise a lot.
in fact the concept of a lot of open tunings are the same,
1. the sympathetic ringing of strings,
2. the use of dyads and chords that avoid to some extent the note that determines whether the chord is major or minor
3. the deliberate use of doubling certain notes.[OFTEN THE ROOT AND THE FIFTH]
4.The use of counter melodies or single harmony lines, using sparse drone harmony, and the avoidance of chords involving major or monor thirds and added jazz discords , [though to my ears] suspensions are sometimes used, but generally without the note that determines wheter a chord is major or minor being present, so often there is a much more ambiguous flavour to the chord, after all cgcgcd tuning is a c modal9 chord or arguably even a gsus4 tuning, the removal of the note that determines major or minor, also[imo]can give a rootless feel
   however open tunings do have certain limitations, they are not generally as useful as standard tuning, when it comes to playing music that modulates a lot such as rag time.


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 05:39 AM

In the same way that Nic chose his tunings/playing style. He never bothered with the nuts and bolts of C Modal 9 or anything else.
If it sounded good he used it.
I feel exactly the same. People ask me what is that chord?
My answer. Haven't got a clue. But it sounds right to me.
It's the intepretation and accompaniment to the song that is vital.
If a chord or indeed an alternative tuning works. Use it. There is no need to understand why it works. Just play it!
Nic hasn't done too badly out of it after all!
I've always preferred intuitive players.
It's ery easy to get involved with the technical side of playing, but, by doing so, you run the risk of losing the humanity of the performance IMHO.


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 05:50 AM

Also I wouldn't hae a clue what a Cmodal9 or Gsus4 chord was if it bit me!
I really don't care. I put my fingers on the strings (or keys if playing tina) and make a pleasing sound.
It's worked for me for 3 decades. I dont intend to change anytime soon.


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 06:31 AM

Ralphie - did you learn by ear, and if so how? I can play a tune on a whistle by ear, but the idea of finding chords by ear boggles me. Guitars have a lot of strings and an awful lot of frets - where would you start?


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 06:59 AM

Dick is correct when he says that open tunings are not generally as useful for tunes that modulate, but this hasn't stopped Brian McNeill from playing some phenomenally fancy ragtime pieces in Open C (CGCGCE).


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 08:12 AM

there is absolutely no reason why understanding what you are doing prevents you from being intuitive,
my playing is intuitive, but after i have discovered something, i am curious to work out what it was and make a note of it, so i dont forget it,
a case in point was my arrangement of bushes and briars, which i play on the guitar and is in standard tuning but, which i discoverd by accident by moving a shape down two frets, out of curiosity i then worked out what i was doing, an e modal chord down to a dmodal 6 /9, down to a different d modal inversion[ the last chord was one that i discoverd by the other method writing out, so i used a mixture of intuition, and knowledge of the fingerboard.
furthermore i would never have discovered the e modal chord up the neck if i hadnt made a diagram of the fingerboard.
Ralphie, which a7 shape are youtalking about?
there is more than one, which is another thing people discover if they take the time to make a diagram of the finger board.
incidentally cgcgcd is generally known as orkney tuning[ which is worth googling, as there are anumber of sites, giving help with this tuning which Tim may find useful.
here is bushes and briars which i discovered through amixture of intuition and finger board knowledge. Ralphie you are incorrect in insinuating tht i dont use intuition i do, but i am curious to know what i have discoverd by intuition so i make anote of it.
Murray youare right neither does it stop pierre bensusan playing some amazing things in dadgad, but he is an extraordanirily talented guitarist.
bushes and briars discovered by intuition, messing around with shapes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojVFPeU0YQU


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 12:04 PM

my apologies orkney tuning is slightly different it is cgdgcd.
" ORKNEY TUNING

The Orkney tuning (CGDGCD) has become my favorite over the years. It is a wonderful tool for melodic (non-linear) playing, in which you avoid playing subsequent notes on the same string. This technique (Pierre Bensusan calls it "harp style,") allows for a very smooth and gentle delivery of the melody and avoids the staccato effect that marks many guitar arrangements of fiddle tunes.

The Orkney tuning is also a great tuning for session back-up. I like it better than DADGAD. You get one extra note's range in the first position and when you're in C, (which in Orkney is often,) you've got a fifth in easy reach at the fifth fret of the first string. This allows for a nice ringy sound. In DADGAD you'd have to stretch your pinkie to the 7th fret to get the equivalent effect.

Drawbacks are that the 6th string tuned down to a C note can sometimes become a bit spaghetti-like and hard to tune. I find, however, that using a heavy 6th string makes this problem quite manageable. Another possible drawback is that playing in D or A is best done with a capo at the 2nd fret. Some people prefer an, un-capoed sound. On the other hand, you may like the higher, ringy sound of the second fret D and A chords.

In al, it's a great tuning. In fact, may theory is that the only thing keeping CGDGCD from overtaking DADGAD as the session player's tuning of choice is that its name has heretofore been impossible to pronounce. Accordingly, I hereby christen it "ORKNEY" to sharpen its competitive edge. Try it out and let me know what you think."


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 04:22 PM

Just to give credit to Steve Baughman for that copy and paste, Dick.

I think it was Steve who actually invented Orkney tuning.

What has happened to Steve Baughman btw, I seem to recollect we had a very animated discussion about "Amazing Grace" in which he participated some years ago, but I haven't seen him post on Mudcat since, AFAIK.


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 04:45 PM

yes, my apologies to Steve.


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 09:30 PM

I've seen Steve's stuff about Orkney and tried my hand at it a couple of times, but haven't really put my mind to it yet.

I've actually come up with what I hope is a fairly decent arrangement of Master Kilby using DADGAD, but I'm fairly sure that's not what Nic was playing in...


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 12:58 AM

Hi Tim. I haven't tried Master Kilby in the C tuning. Will dig out the guitar later and have a muck around!
But it does make playing Canadee-I-O pretty easy. I normally use it as a warm up excersise when I start playing. (wouldn't dream of doing it in public though!!)


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Subject: RE: Nic Jones/Master Kilby-what tuning did Nic use?
From: pavane
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 04:27 AM

My program Harmony does allow you to specify the tuning of each string separately, when showing the tab.

You have to regenerate the TAB in each tuning, of course, as notes may shift to different strings.
The user interface is a bit clumsy in that area though.


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