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BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress

Jim Carroll 17 Sep 10 - 09:43 AM
Richard Bridge 17 Sep 10 - 07:38 AM
Old Vermin 17 Sep 10 - 07:38 AM
Edthefolkie 17 Sep 10 - 07:17 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Sep 10 - 07:12 AM
mandotim 17 Sep 10 - 06:47 AM
John MacKenzie 17 Sep 10 - 06:39 AM
mandotim 17 Sep 10 - 06:16 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Sep 10 - 07:33 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Sep 10 - 03:09 PM
John MacKenzie 16 Sep 10 - 01:41 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Sep 10 - 12:03 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Sep 10 - 11:56 AM
John MacKenzie 16 Sep 10 - 11:34 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Sep 10 - 11:26 AM
MikeL2 16 Sep 10 - 11:07 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Sep 10 - 10:30 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 16 Sep 10 - 10:19 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Sep 10 - 10:19 AM
Lox 16 Sep 10 - 08:58 AM
Richard Bridge 16 Sep 10 - 08:57 AM
Lox 16 Sep 10 - 08:54 AM
John MacKenzie 16 Sep 10 - 08:51 AM
Richard Bridge 16 Sep 10 - 08:50 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Sep 10 - 08:39 AM
mandotim 16 Sep 10 - 07:55 AM
The Sandman 16 Sep 10 - 07:47 AM
Old Vermin 16 Sep 10 - 06:54 AM
GUEST,Rupert 16 Sep 10 - 06:42 AM
Edthefolkie 16 Sep 10 - 06:39 AM
Richard Bridge 16 Sep 10 - 06:22 AM
The Sandman 16 Sep 10 - 06:06 AM
banjoman 16 Sep 10 - 06:05 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Sep 10 - 05:59 AM
Richard Bridge 16 Sep 10 - 05:50 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Sep 10 - 05:25 AM
Lox 16 Sep 10 - 05:14 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Sep 10 - 04:18 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Sep 10 - 08:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Sep 10 - 07:22 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 15 Sep 10 - 06:42 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Sep 10 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Rupert 15 Sep 10 - 06:03 PM
The Sandman 15 Sep 10 - 05:58 PM
Lox 15 Sep 10 - 05:10 PM
mandotim 15 Sep 10 - 02:18 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Sep 10 - 01:09 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 15 Sep 10 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 15 Sep 10 - 12:00 PM
Donuel 15 Sep 10 - 11:56 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 09:43 AM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 07:38 AM

Ah, I wouldn't have wanted an LHD auto anyway, but thanks. Go radical with the Dyane and put a 1220 GS engine in it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Old Vermin
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 07:38 AM

Friend of mine, technically a carer, disabled and skint has an ancient VW Golf as a winter car - currently off the road - an even more ancient Triumph Spitfire - intended to be the summer car when fixed - an elderly MGB GT in his father's garage and as an alternative summer car a Citroen 2CV [if it isn't a Dyane] which is kept about twenty miles from where he lives.

He had a bit of a glitch on the MoT [roadworthiness test certificate] for the Golf expiring before he thought it did. Declared that SORNed [legally off-road] before noticing that he needed a road-legal car to get the bits to fix the assorted deficiencies. I gave him a lift to the motor-factors back in June. Haven't seen him since, must enquire....

Certainly not a bloated plutocrat. Has an apparent ability to defy gravity, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 07:17 AM

Richard, to go straight off topic again - it's an LHD Mk IX and (I think) auto. Came in a container from the States along with a MK 1 which had been partially immersed in a creek, a 4.2 E-Type, and an MGB. The E Type is now restored and RHD, the Mk 1 I believe went to a German gent (poor sod), and the Mark 9's head has I believe now been taken in hand as they say. Thank God I only have a 1973 Citroen Dyane being fixed!

And to get back onto the drift of the thread, neither of us are bloated plutocrats - we're just playing with our Dinky Toys.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 07:12 AM

I watched Question Time last night.
I wonder if anybody else heard the woman from the London Fire Service say that she and all her collegues would all be sacked in November and re-employed under new contracts - nice to know that workers are being given a full part to play in sorting out the mess the country is in!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: mandotim
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 06:47 AM

'Social protest' is a little general, and it could be argued includes strikes. Could you be more specific? How, for example, would you ensure that employers pay a living wage that avoids the need for income support by 'social protest'?


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 06:39 AM

I think the last sentence of my previous post might mention a possible plan ☺


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: mandotim
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 06:16 AM

Ok John, enlighten us; how would you go about changing the status quo you disagree with?


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 07:33 PM

For instance what do you do about the handicapped?

Maybe I got confused with that stuff Rupert brought in about Democrats and Republicans, but it appears that he seems drawn to think the thing to do is eliminate them.

Consistent, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 03:09 PM

"It did cause the government to drop that policy after all"
It did sod all to stop an illegal war, despite the fact that one million people came out on the streets prior to in invasion of Iraq, and it led to a banning of all demostrations within one mile of Westminster.
The petrol price protests only had some effect because lorry drivers, who were in a position to bring militant pressure on the transport system, played a major part.
If we are going to have the same people who got the world into the mess it is now in, remain in positions of authority and influence, as appears to be inevitable, and if they are going to continue to help themselves to taxpayers money in the form of enormous bonuses, as they continue to do unchecked at the present time, then those of us who have no other voice than our Trades Unions are simply going to have to leave it to their discretion to do what they see fit. I'm sure the T.U. leadership is as aware as anybody with experience of trades union activity, that nobody comes out on strike unless they are left with no other alternative. Removing the option to call a strike is throwing away the only weapon working people have (sending our representitives naked to the conference table I think is the apposite term)
As I said earlier, often the threat of a strike is enough.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 01:41 PM

I don't agree with the satus quo, I merely quibble with the intended means of bringing about a change in this state of affairs.
Strikes are divisive, and poorly targeted, as they cause suffering to many more people than those they are aimed at.
Social protest, like the demonstrations against the petrol price escalotor would appear to be more effective. It did cause the government to drop that policy after all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 12:03 PM

John,
You made your stance quite clear by the way you posed your question and refused to look at the answers.
Regarding your last question;
"Do they want to raise everybody UP to the same level?"
Depends on what your 'ups' and 'downs' are,
Your 'ups' appear to be the people who, by their greed, dishonesty and incompetence, have managed to drive us into the mess we are in today.
Your 'downs' are those who, by their hard work, sacrifices and taxes are now expected to get us out of the mess created by your 'ups'.
You appear to see something logical about maintaining a status quo of this nature.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 11:56 AM

I just spotted this gem as well: "Labour encouraged people to sign on sickness benefits and duly rewarded them."

This is just fantasy. Getting on to incapacity benefit, even for the most deserving cases, has been a bloody nightmare for years. There has been no "encouragement" of any kind. For many years now this benefit has been means-tested after a fashion (if you had to retire early, and received even a modest ill-health pension or other income, your IB either went down or disappeared completely). And the rules for doing even a very limited amount of work whilst on this benefit, for example in a move to a full return to work, are very severe. You may gather that I'm speaking from personal experience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 11:34 AM

Don't make assumptions Jim.
Whinged is such an emotive word don't you think, and so incorrect too.☻


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 11:26 AM

"Labour can be charged with hypocritcally, they say are trying to ensure that society is fair and rewards those with marketable skills or willingness to work hard. That is rubbish, They manipulated unemployment figures for years, figures for those on Incapacity benefits..."

I should like to remind you that Thatcher, during the period when she was systematically and foolishly destroying our industrial base, vengefully wrecking the mining industry and turning whole communities (always the ones whose blood, sweat and tears made this country what it is) into no-hope deserts, put millions on to incapacity benefit to avoid them showing up as embarrassingly unemployed. Some people don't half have short memories. Labour certainly failed to get to grips with the issue (initiative after initiative coming to nought), but the situation was an inheritance from the Tories. And I'm not aware of any manipulation of the figures for incapacity benefit claimants. These have always been among the more transparent of government statistics, unlike the unemployment figures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 11:07 AM

Hi

Interesting thread !!

But IMHO the Unions are just rattling their cages to let the so-called Government know that they are around.

This is just a preliminary in what is going to be a long drawn out negotiation process to try to make the case that making cuts is not the way forward.

In the same way The Government is over talking what they actually are proposing to do. So that when they do make clear what they are going to do it doesn't seem quite so bad after all.

Industrial psychiatry really !!

It happens all the time in business. Ever negotiated for a pay rise...???

Same process.

cheers

Mikel2


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 10:30 AM

"Do they want to raise everybody UP to the same level?"
How about everybody finding their own level?
You really are a dyed-in-the-wool Thatcherite, aren't you?
You started off this thread extremely aggressively proudly announced that you weren't going to read what anybody else had to say, (then whinged that people were being rude to you) - Did you get your open mind at Harrods?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 10:19 AM

John is it reasonable that the rewards for a nerchant banker, or a gambler dabbling in the derivatives markets are a hundred times greater than for a doctor? It is not a simple matter of lifting up or knocking back as your facile post suggests. It is a matter of striking a balance. And a balance can't b struck without using regulation to constrain market forces.

Are you comfortable that from 1989 until 2005 (during which period Britain had both Conservative and "New" Labour governments) the gap between richa nd poor in the UK grew faster than in any developed country except New Zealand? Is it a doctrinaire leftwing backlash to suggest reversing that trend?

Do you accept any role at all for govrnments in terms of regulation and redistribution? If not , you will be disappointed that there is now international agreement on regulating at last the insane world of derivatives trading.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 10:19 AM

""No one fully trusts the market just yet. If we prevent naturally occurring monopolies from taking place we risk years of recession. The unions so wish to manipulate the market by scaremongering, this would only serve to reward those they identify with.

Labour can be charged with hypocritcally, they say are trying to ensure that society is fair and rewards those with marketable skills or willingness to work hard. That is rubbish, They manipulated unemployment figures for years, figures for those on Incapacity benefits, carers allowance and benefits for children with special needs (numbers truly qualifying for this recently discredited)were rarely released, Labour encouraged people to sign on sickness benefits and duly rewarded them.   


Some people's definition of just rewards for good management reads more like sour grapes to me. Would you not agree that it is fair to reward managers who save their company money and increase profit margins?   

Some of you seem just jolly well jealous that someone should prosper over other another. We are not responsible for every lame duck in our society, we take the advantages in life, we are not just born into a situation with certain opportunities. Why should I not have the opportunity to thrive ? so many of you go on about extreme poverty, well if you work hard that would appear to be the best way to avoid it.

There are unprincipled people in our society who use support groups and community based whatever set up by Labour to fight, argue and beat their drum using whatever arguments they think will benefit them or those groups they identify with as long as they don't have to work for a living.



Society has seen the demise of moral values in recent times, we all must pull together in the years ahead,some of you will not like the decisions that this government will have to make, I for one think they will do a sterling job and give this country the cuff around the ear it requires.


concerned that those who are rewarded in life neither workDemocrats have two complaints. First they point out that if life is a test, the test is not fair. Second, even if life is a test, is it fair to reward those with superior brains or bodies?

Before you dismiss democrats as a bunch of sore losers at the game of life you have to address their valid arguments. For instance what do you do about the handicapped? According to a purely republican philosophy any sort of governmental charity among the Neanderthals would have only encouraged the procreation of less efficient hunters and gatherers.

This can be described as survival of the fittest, or even happiness for the fittest.""

I couldn't agree more Rupert.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Lox
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 08:58 AM

Well John,

Judging by the way wealth is distributed, to achieve a balance it would statistically be necessary to raise most people up and to cut the excess fat from a small few.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 08:57 AM

PS, is that Jag the manual box or the auto?


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Lox
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 08:54 AM

Rupert,

You said:

"Yes there is poverty, it is among those who work for a living and don't feed off the state for their rent, mortgage and council tax."

Then you said:

"so many of you go on about extreme poverty, well if you work hard that would appear to be the best way to avoid it."


Hmmm ...


I see you haven't thought things through very far ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 08:51 AM

Do they want to raise everybody UP to the same level?
or
Do they wish to drag everybody DOWN to the same level?


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 08:50 AM

How much for that Mk IX with a ropy head then? I'm really really poor but I'd give it a good home along with my Volvos... (which have also been quite expensive to keep fixing but give me constant joy)


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 08:39 AM

"Labour created a lot of the problems we are faced with today, no one can dispute that." "Well I will dispute that"
Steve Shaw is spot on - we aren't living with Labour's legacy - we are still knee deep in the dog-eat-dog world that Thatcher created, killing off any vestige of decency that the old Conservative party once might have had.
New Labour, to it's eternal shame, bought into that world, and finalised the deal with an illegal war that destroyed its credibility completely.
Any suggestion that Cameron's mob might be any different was scotched by the recent budget, introduced by the combined efforts of Conservative and Lib-Dems.
Rupert provides us with a fine example (or a very clever caricature) of what we might expect in the future.
I'll pin my hopes with the Trades Unions, thanks very much.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: mandotim
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 07:55 AM

Oh dear, Rupert. All that money spent on your education, and still can't construct either a cogent argument or an English sentence. The playing fields of Eton aren't what they were, apparently.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 07:47 AM

Rupert said, well if you work hard that would be the best way to avoid it. here is a song for you rupert
William Brown

Traditional Woodcraft song arr. by Stan Kelly Tune: Friggin' in the Riggin' (or similar)

© 1961 Heathside Music

With time and motion


Well, a nice young man was William Brown,
He worked for a wage in Liverpool town,
He worked from six till eight at night,
Turning a wheel from left to right.

Chorus:


Keep that wheel a-turning, keep that wheel a-turning
Keep that wheel a-turning and do a little more each day.


One day the boss to William came
And said, "Look here, young what's your name,
"We're not content with what you do,
"Work a little harder or out you go."


So William turned and made her run
Three times roung in the time of one,
He turned so hard he soon was made
The Lord High Turner of his trade.


William turned with the same sweet smile,
The goods he made grew such a pile;
They filled the room and the room next door
And overflowed to the basement floor.


The nation heard of the wondrous tale,
His picture appeared in the Sketch and the Mail;
The railways ran excursions down,
And all to look at William Brown.

Penultimate verse sung with pathos in a minor key


But sad the sequel is to tell;
He turned out more than the boss could sell;
The market slumped and the price went down,
Seven more days and they sacked young Brown.

Up to speed for last half-verse

The moral of the tale is plain to tell:
If you wanna lose yer job, just werk like HELL!

Final Chorus:


And keep that wheel a-turning, keep that wheel a-turning
Keep that wheel a-turning and do a little more each day.

Back to contents...


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Old Vermin
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 06:54 AM

Never mind the investment potential & running costs of old cars, consider why no-one makes them that way any more. An old MGB - I drove my son's before he sold it - was hard work to drive and not terribly comfortable. My great-uncle's pre-war - 1920s - Rolls went very slowly. My father who was driving said this was because it had nearly no brakes.

The things are money-pits and don't actually work terribly well. I just can make an exception for the three-wheeled Morgan run for the last forty or fifty years by an acquaintance.

I've given up on the main topic of the thread, I'm afraid. Too much déja-vu already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: GUEST,Rupert
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 06:42 AM

No one fully trusts the market just yet. If we prevent naturally occurring monopolies from taking place we risk years of recession. The unions so wish to manipulate the market by scaremongering, this would only serve to reward those they identify with.

Labour can be charged with hypocritcally, they say are trying to ensure that society is fair and rewards those with marketable skills or willingness to work hard. That is rubbish, They manipulated unemployment figures for years, figures for those on Incapacity benefits, carers allowance and benefits for children with special needs (numbers truly qualifying for this recently discredited)were rarely released, Labour encouraged people to sign on sickness benefits and duly rewarded them.   


Some people's definition of just rewards for good management reads more like sour grapes to me. Would you not agree that it is fair to reward managers who save their company money and increase profit margins?   

Some of you seem just jolly well jealous that someone should prosper over other another. We are not responsible for every lame duck in our society, we take the advantages in life, we are not just born into a situation with certain opportunities. Why should I not have the opportunity to thrive ? so many of you go on about extreme poverty, well if you work hard that would appear to be the best way to avoid it.

There are unprincipled people in our society who use support groups and community based whatever set up by Labour to fight, argue and beat their drum using whatever arguments they think will benefit them or those groups they identify with as long as they don't have to work for a living.



Society has seen the demise of moral values in recent times, we all must pull together in the years ahead,some of you will not like the decisions that this government will have to make, I for one think they will do a sterling job and give this country the cuff around the ear it requires.


concerned that those who are rewarded in life neither workDemocrats have two complaints. First they point out that if life is a test, the test is not fair. Second, even if life is a test, is it fair to reward those with superior brains or bodies?

Before you dismiss democrats as a bunch of sore losers at the game of life you have to address their valid arguments. For instance what do you do about the handicapped? According to a purely republican philosophy any sort of governmental charity among the Neanderthals would have only encouraged the procreation of less efficient hunters and gatherers.

This can be described as survival of the fittest, or even happiness for the fittest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 06:39 AM

Rupert (or Wupert), you may get a surprise when your private healthcare plan refuses to treat you because of the small print, and your private pension plan doesn't buy you the prosperous retirement which you no doubt anticipate.

Lox, you'll be pleased to hear that your acquaintance is riding for a fall. Buying old Jaguars? Claiming they are company cars? The Revenue aren't stupid - Pubco Man may be in for a nasty shock.

Anyway, a person who buys a classic vehicle with the notion that they increase in value every year is very naive, they actually cost you a fortune. A family member bought a Rolls Royce expecting a profit - when he needed the brakes fixing, he soon found out the error of his ways. A good friend has various old Jaguars - anybody want a Mark IX with a duff cylinder head? Should only cost about £2k to fix!


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 06:22 AM

Very well said Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 06:06 AM

bonzo 3 legs
I am banging the keynesian drum, it hasnothing to do with political alignment, but is an accepted and proven way of getting a country out of an economic slump.
cutting peoples wages and benefits is not an efficent way of curing an economic slump


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: banjoman
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 06:05 AM

Here's my view. As a former Union Official, I have no time for Bob Crow and his call for Civil Disobedience. However, I have listened carefully to what the more sane element of the TUC is saying. There is no doubt that this coalition government is Tory Based and is reverting back to type. Leopards dont change their spots despite what Cameron & co say. The philosophy is to provide a means for big (and I mean really big) business to flourish and make huge bonus payments to its directors -many of whom are members of this government- at the expense of the less well off who, by tradition the torys see as a burden to their pland and are only tolerated as little as can be got away with.
Its the workers who create the wealth, but all business has to be managed and properly run for the benefit of all. The same should apply to government regardless of political colour. I actually voted Lib Dem, but never believed I was voting in a Tory government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 05:59 AM

"Labour created a lot of the problems we are faced with today, no one can dispute that."

Well I will dispute that. Every government and opposition in recent decades has to take its share of the blame. New Labour were merely continuing with the system of bank deregulation that Thatcher and Major espoused so enthusiastically (I don't know how Nigel Lawson and Norman Lament have got the gall to keep coming out to "commentate" on the current situation!), and I don't recall too many dissenting voices from the Tories during the good New Labour times when all their fat-cat City mates were feathering their nests.

"The benefits system in the UK is so abused, thankfully next month that will be pulled into line."

The real abuse of the benefits sytem is the fact that far more goes unclaimed, because the rules and the form-filling and the procedures you have to go through are so confusing and complicated, than is ever claimed fraudulently. It's bloody obvious who the chief rippers-off of the British people are, and it ain't a few dodgy benefits claimants, that's for sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 05:50 AM

Bonzo, if you are an accountant, or qualified to be a finance director (I am less than convinced) surely you should be able to count, and to see that:
(a) mostly the assertions of Rupert of which you seemingly approve are innumerate; and
(b) if such problems existed it would be the welfare state and benefit system that alleviated them.

You seem to have somewhat less insight than Marie Antoinette.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 05:25 AM

Rupert, I'm afraid you are wasting your time. All the usual suspects are here banging the same old lefty drum which reads like a comedy script!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Lox
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 05:14 AM

My dear Rupert,

You said:

"He spoke equality and poverty in the UK today. Equality, what do people want ? do they want the workshy and the lazy to enjoy the same lifestyle as those who worked hard all their lives?"

and then you said

"Many speak of poverty in the UK today. Yes there is poverty, it is among those who work for a living and don't feed off the state for their rent, mortgage and council tax."


So you have answered your own question haven't you.

if there are "those working for a living" in "poverty", then it follows that there is a serious problem of inequality.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 04:18 AM

Wupert's a wind-up - surely?
Though Monty Python had disbanded.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 08:58 PM

Oh, very witty Rupert. Such a wonderful caricature.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 07:22 PM

And maybe we shouldn't depend on roads built with public money to travel around on, Rupert. Surely doing that offends against our dignity?

And how about the air we breath? Shouldn't that be sold to private companies, with us having to pay every time we fill our lungs? That should soon enough get rid of "the workshy and the lazy"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 06:42 PM

"The benefits system in the UK is so abused, thankfully next month that will be pulled into line."

Yes, Rupert (good 'officer class' name that) some of your social inferiors are getting more than you think they're entitled to - "they must be pulled into line"!

Bankers can f**k the economy up as much as they like and their rewards are massive salaries and obscene bonuses - but woe betide any lowly oik who fiddles the system - set the privatised dogs on him!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 06:06 PM

That is certainly the conventional view of the Keynesian/New Deal restorative mechanism, Dick, and I subscribe to it. Cutting one's way out of recession failed before the Keynesian restoration, failed until the German "guns, not butter" initiative, and failed for the she-devil, so one does wonder just how stupid Osborne is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: GUEST,Rupert
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 06:03 PM

Can we please give this new government a chance. I think they are doing a splendid job. Yes banks created big problems, but it is done and we have to move on.

Labour created a lot of the problems we are faced with today, no one can dispute that. This government inherited a mess. I listened to a speaker yesterday at the Congress, typical meddling Scargill type, talking about striking and scaremongering about the winter of 1973. I myself have a private pension plan and private health insurance, everyone must make provision for their own retirement, no one should depend on the welfare state to carry them, one should have some dignity.

He spoke equality and poverty in the UK today. Equality, what do people want ? do they want the workshy and the lazy to enjoy the same lifestyle as those who worked hard all their lives? Labour certainly did. The benefits system in the UK is so abused, thankfully next month that will be pulled into line. I think the finest action so far by this government was to put the detection of benefit cheats into the hands of several private companies. They are to be paid 300.00 for each successful detection of such scoundrels. I know several that claim Mobility allowance and incapacity benefit and are fit to work, I had no apprehension in filling in the online forms reporting them.

Many speak of poverty in the UK today. Yes there is poverty, it is among those who work for a living and don't feed off the state for their rent, mortgage and council tax.

I jolly well look forward to the government announcements in October, especially the 2.5bn cut in Social Security payments.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 05:58 PM

I think the way out of this economic slump is to start spending money on repairing infra structure, employing people on repairing mains sewers, roads, railways[even a new railway]etc.
until people are receiving money they cannot buy goods, therefore there is no point employing peopleproducing goods that noone has the money to buy.
however if people get wages to do necessary infrastructure repairs , they then have money to buy goods, the economy then gets a kick start. sorry if i am stating the obvious, but many politicians do not seem to understand how the capitalist system works.
another good occurence would be a couple of earth quakes[preferably under the house of commons,... joke].


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Lox
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 05:10 PM

I Agree with Mandotim here.

An acquaintance of mine owns a chain of pubs.

He offers me friendship and I reject it because I find his arrogance very distasteful.

He also owns a few classic cars - old jags etc.

Does he love classic cars?

Does he fuck!

He owns them, in the name of his business, because he can call them company cars and, as company cars are a necessary expense, he can write off tax against them.

He is so proud of himself.

I ask him "what about the NHS?"

He changes the subject.

Sleight of hand allows him to spend his tax pounds on a nice car once a year.

And each car is a classic, so it is an investment that increases in value with time.

So instead of paying his premium to be in the club, he keeps it, invests it, and has some flash cars.

Meanwhile there are people who have to wait for 24 hours before the police come round to interview them about the guy that held them up at gun point - by which time he has gone ... (true story)


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: mandotim
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 02:18 PM

Hi Backwoodsman; I know tax avoidance isn't unlawful; that's precisely the point, I think it should be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 01:09 PM

I think we should just print oodles of new money, write off the past 30 years and start over.... :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 12:03 PM

'mandotim' I think that the content your previous post represents a fair and equitable way forward for this country. Unfortunately, it does not chime with the rabid instincts of your average Tory. Such an individual believes that his/her 'social inferiors' are 'getting more' than he/she believes that they are entitled to - and that this must be stopped ... end of story really ... the consequences of doing so are not his/her concern. This boneheaded 'philosophy' fits in perfectly with the equally rabid ambitions of the rich and powerful who are thus enabled to keep more of the nation's wealth for them selves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 12:00 PM

Arthur Itis is being disingenuously selective in his reporting of union leaders' salaries. Here's a broader snapshot:

£52,666 pa - Alan Johnson - Union of Communication Workers.
£41,891 pa - Tony Dubbins - GMPU
£70,584 pa - Christine Hancock - Royal College of Nursing
c £60,000 pa - Alan Jinkinson - Unison
c £48,000 pa - Bill Morris - TGWU
£50,844 pa - Garfield Davies - Usdaw
£58,300 pa - Roger Lyons - MSU

These people are chief executives of large organisations. Looked at in this context their salaries are hardly outrageous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Blind stupidity - TUC Congress
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 11:56 AM

We in the USA are also being asked to something similar to you John.


The stupidy of Congress is really a plead for more greed.


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