BS: Would the government LIE to us??

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Sep 10 - 04:33 PM

Glad to be heard from, 999!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Sep 10 - 03:59 PM

Great to hear from you, GfS.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Sep 10 - 03:42 PM

I asked the government again if it would knowingly lie to us. They said yes, but only if it was for our own good. Hard to argue with that, ain`t it!

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Naemanson
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 11:59 PM

How do you know when a politician is lying to you?

His lips are moving.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 09:18 PM

Yeah, GfinS... I saw that commercial and I don't even smoke... Tobacco, that is... and I was thinkin' that maybe I oughtta take it up 'cause it sounds safer than the drugs to get you off it...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 08:32 PM

999: "And THEN there`s the drug companies."

....the biggest sponsor of Fox News.(not a value judgment, one way or another). Hey, next time you see a 'Chantix' ad, (a drug to help people stop smoking) notice if you will, that the disclaimer, as to side effects, and related stuff...is longer than the commercial!!!!!!

I think smoking might be less risky!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 05:14 PM

With all the wrangling that goes on, a little lightheartedness is sometimes the prescription!!


And THEN there`s the drug companies.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 01:44 PM

Hey Patsy, Thanks for replying! One person,(not sure if it was on here, could have been) on another thread said he splattered his screen pretty well!!!
Don't you just love it when that happens????
With all the wrangling that goes on, a little lightheartedness is sometimes the prescription!!

Now, back to my perverted thoughts.........

Wink,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 08:46 AM

Right, GfinS... Just do away with food stamps and social workers... That ougtta fix the problem???

Hey, if yuo don't like being accused of putting forth Repub talking points then I say the easiest way would be to quit, ahhhhhh, putting forth Repub talking points...

This notion that we don't need food stamps goes hand in hand with the notion that we don't need Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid or Section 8 housing or, or, or...

Righto, GfinS... Then we'll be just like every other 3rd world country...

(But, Boberdz, people gotta be "personally responsible"...)

Oh???

Hmmmmmmm???

BTW. I quit social work when I was 40 and have since been one of those small businessmen you talk about... I know what it's like to have to lay off people... Just had to lay off my entire crew 3 months ago and shut down a project because yer banks don't loan to small businessmen anymore... They just lend to one another... Kinda Wall Street's version of "Keep away"...

BTW, GfinS... You don't hear me defending Dems all that much... Yes, I have commented on their ability to cut deficits but that more a cyclable situation... I do, however, blast Reps and Repub talkin' points... So you can try to pin Dem on me but it ain't me out here everyday putting forth Dem talking points... You, on the other hand, can't seem to let the sun set without putting forth yet another Repub talking point... Hmmmmmmm???

But I loves ya... See, one thing I learned real well suring my social work days is how to truely appreciate people who are, ahhhhh, insane or knockin' on the door...lol...

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{wink, wink}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 06:17 AM

I don't suppose that they have much choice in the matter. And I suppose that this is especially true of governments that are elected by the people and who then, when they get into office, turn their backs on the electors and start working full-time for Big Business.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 04:46 AM

>Guest, Patsy: "I just choked on my coffee then laughing!"

I have to ask you the same thing I asked Joe Offer(but he never answered), or something like that..."Did you dribble, or was it 'full blown aerosol mouth'???

GfS<

It was a little burst that was about to go all over some paperwork on my desk. In future on Mudcats I am going to have to make sure there are plenty of kleenex nearby.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 01:16 AM

You and your stupid RNC rap..give it a rest. It does not apply, in my case, because I'm not into the Republicunts, nor their 'talking points' either...However, sometimes even a broken clock is right...twice a day!

I guess you, as a retired social worker, just think there is no poverty, or debt, because all the people you know, can always get food stamps...shit, you made your living handing them out. Ever tried anything that created wealth?? Both their need for food stamps, and your old job, were a waste of money, and added to the debt..totally unnecessary, if big business would get their corrupting influences out of the politicians pockets!!..and quit screwing the small businesses out of business!!

Many small businesses could be hiring right now, but Obama's $250,000 'limit' for tax increases, will indeed screw the little guys to financial death...and those small businesses are frozen, as to see how bad they are about to be screwed, after the first of the year, so they are NOT hiring!!

But, that's OK with you. They can always get food stamps!!!

I think its high time for you to take off your silly blinders of Dem versus Repub.

I can't believe how mentally blocked you are!!
Just take a look around you, look at the people you know....who the only hope they have are an increase of benefits!! WAKE UP!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 11:24 PM

Only times in the past 3 decades has the deficit gone down is swhen Dems have control of the White House...

You wnat some stability to yer bond market then quit parroting Repub bullshit... We have 3 decades of seein' what they will do... They will spend, spend and spend and leave the clean up for those evil "tax 'n spend" Dems... What do ya' think that does to bonds???

So what??? The Tealiban??? Exactly what is their plan for getting California out of the hole??? Elliminate all taxes??? Hmmmmmmmm??? That lot like usin' leeches to ***try*** to cure desease, ain't it???

So what's yer plan, GfinS??? Or is it alot safer just complaining... Sound familiar??? Seems like that has RNC written all over it...

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 11:13 PM

They generate more money, which then goes into the banks where it is multiplied many times over by being loaned out, and then deposited, each time at a multiple of its value. I forget the exact number, but a million dollars added to the amount of actual money produces hundreds of millions of indebtedness and credit.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 11:05 PM

beardedbruce,
The stupid liberals did the same thing, in California, ran a lot of industry out, and the debt through the ceiling. California, at one time was the sixth richest economy in the WORLD...Now their bonds are teetering on the brink of being 'junk-bonds'..true story!

This kind of wasteful spending, like a drunken sailor, has got to stop...or we all go down!!! ..but they keep doing it to 'appease' their sense of ideological 'do-gooder' folly, while, of course loading their new laws and regulations with as much pork, as they can stuff into everything they touch!..and getting around tax laws, by calling new tax hikes, 'fees', 'surcharges' 'licensing fees' 'surtaxes' 'regulatory charges', 'administration costs' 'additional penalty assessments' so on and so forth. You get the idea.
California is just about down the tubes, thanks to them, and their flagrant stupidity!!!!


GfS


P.S. Now Bobert will post some meaningless, semi-literate exclamations of excrement, and say, he hasn't heard of that...or that, they really weren't liberal idiots. That running the state down to poverty and un-payable debt was really for their own good....and anybody who doesn't understand that, is a right wing Tea Bag toting, racist!

There, Bobert, I said it for you....being as it is predictable...and as backward, as a hillbilly can be...or get!

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 09:37 PM

Well, andrew... That is one very thoughtfull question and it isn't all that easy to answer...

Of course, the "buzz answer" is that they borrow it from China... Ain't that easy... Yeah, there is a major trade deficit with China but Uncle Sam, inspite of what some folks may "think", ain'tr bankrolling the wars in Iraq or Afganistan... The American people are... Well, there are bonds and treasury notes that lots of people lookin' fir a safe low interest return... That amounts to a sizable chunk of chnage...

But the government also borrows from itself by simply printing more money??? Astounding as that may sound this is occuring on a daily basis and at the end of the day the money supply is greatly enhanced...

Econ 201 tells us that after awhile this method will devalue the currency and, yeah, we've seen that over the last couple three decades... I theory, that's a good thing 'cause it should make our goods and services cheaper but other countries, China being the largest, tend toward "regulatin' the value of its currency but with 6-8% GNP growth they can purdy much do waht they want... The US, however, with 1% growth is up "Shit's Creek"...

But nevermind all that complicated Econ stuff, the money is coming from US... One way or another...

BTW, when you print up more money all yer doing is passin' an inflationary cycle off to the next generation to suffer???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,andrew
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 09:18 PM

So if a country goes into debt. Who do they borrow the money from, and where did it come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 02:31 PM

Good article, Neil... But the Repubs and Obama haters won't read it 'cause they ain't into non-fiction these days...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 11:52 AM

Guest, Patsy: "I just choked on my coffee then laughing!"

I have to ask you the same thing I asked Joe Offer(but he never answered), or something like that..."Did you dribble, or was it 'full blown aerosol mouth'???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 11:07 AM

In the 90's the Clinton administration payed down the enormous deficit and created a surplus, which Bush turned into an even more massive deficit. Now in 18 months Obama has REDUCED that immense deficit by 8%, ahead of Clinton's pace (It took him 7 years to pay it off). Here is an article about it which includes links to U.S. Treasury Department reports. Ironically, the most fervent deficit hawks are also the ones calling for tax cuts for millionaires that would increase the deficit by nearly 4 trillion dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 05:54 AM

I just choked on my coffee then laughing!

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 02:00 AM

What debt?? The recession end over a year ago.....MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 11:46 PM

Well, since neither of the wars nor the Medicare drug bamboozle were included in the budget, do they count as part of the deficit?

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 11:30 PM

"Obama has made the deficit go up faster than Bush- "

And condemning that is like setting a fire, then complaining about the fire dept. using too much water to put it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: MarkS
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 10:43 PM

They do not lie to us. It's just when it comes to getting information correct, they usually do not know their asses from
2:00pm.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 10:17 PM

(Ahhhh, ya' might wanta reference that "epsilons" comment here, Boberdz, 'cause might confuzerate some of these folks here in Mudville... Know what I mean???)

Okay...

Hint: Brave New World (Google it if ya' is clueless of what I'm sayin' here...)

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 09:55 PM

Future debt is one thing...

Makin' a claim that Obam is resp9onsible for these deficits is quite another...

Am I concerned about how the junked-up health care reform is going to be paid for??? Yeah, I am... But when I look at the value of bogus credit default swaps and dirivitives and put the amount of cash that corporate America is sittin' on (uninvetsed!!!) then even if the overall cost is $1T, that is chump change to the big boys... They spill that much...

But the most important aspect of providing coverage to all Americans (minus the 1% Tealibaners who will opt to pay the fines) is that iot makes our businesses competitive... Yeah, I know... The Repubs own the "business" vote??? Makes sense... There is a reason why the US economy can't compete... The same ol' rightie corporate CEO's don't know squat about business and how economies work...

Man, how did the epsilons take over???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: pdq
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 09:50 PM

The U.S. Congress is solely responsible for ALL federal spending. The president proposes a budget, but what actually gets passed is the compromise worked out between the House and Senate.

The U.S. Congress is solely responsible for waging war and funding the military. Blaming G.W.Bush for military actions that have cost us $770 billion in the last 9 years may make anti-war types feel good, but the last two "wars" were ovewhelmingly approved by Congress. The vote to evict the Taliban from Afghanistan was 98-0 (unanimous) in the Senate.

The last year that the U.S. federal government took in more money than it spent was 1959. The Clinton "surplus" is as phoney as the rest of the federal debt numbers. In 2000 we added $17.5 billion to the National Debt. That may be a "balanced budget" in government terms, but it ain't no such thing in the real world. Clinton, at the time, claimed a "surplus of $220 billion" in 2000. There is a name for that out here in the country, we call it...

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 08:54 PM

1. That 09 budget that ended the recession? Which Obama takes credit for ending? ( ended in June 09, from the reports- so Oba,ma had NIO effect on it)

2. The amount Obama has spent ABOVE the debts left by Bush exceed the debt left by Bush.



Obama has pushed through enough future debt to make it impossible to ever pay it off- but I guess you will just blame that on the next president, and not remember what you are saying here now.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 08:45 PM

You are so wrong, BB, thqat it is amazing that you can come here and make such a claim...

First of all, the '09 budget was 100% Bush's... Do you deny that??? I mean, lets lay the shit out on the table here... The incoming president is stuck with the previous president's budget for the year that the new president comes into office!!! That account for over half of waht you now wnat to lay at Obama's feet... Do you deny that taht, bb???

So one hald of yer bukllshit has been laid out and is cookin' like a deheaded snake in the hot sun...

Now onto part B... Do you deny that Bsuh built in deficits for the next president with a combination of debt service and spending that the next administartion was going to be stuck with??? I mean, do you seriously deny that??? These deficts were chizzeled in stone... It was no secret either... The Washington Post ran several stories about how Bush was going to saddle the next administartion with Bush defecits... Do you deny that???

I mean, lets get friggin' real here... These deficits, which BTW you didn't give a rat's ass about as long as it was one of yer guys who was runnin' them up, were going to happen... Oral Roberts, Jesus, Budda and God weren't goin' change that... Do you deny that, bb???

I mean, if you do then, man, you have not been patying much attention to the Business Section of the Washington Post for the last several years...

I can't believe that you would try this juvinilistic crap as if everyone here in Mudville was born last night... Hey, pal, there are people who have been paying attention and who know how to pick up a newspaper and read the sumabich...

Yer entire premise is bogus bullshit!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 08:17 PM

"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." ~ Bertrand de Jouvenel

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Amos
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 07:57 PM

T'ain't bigotry, it's memory.

Some folks have longer ones nor others.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 07:48 PM

BTW, nice of YOU to make it Bush vs Obama- MY posthad the following, but YOU had to find some way to pin it on Bush. Nice of you to show such bigotry.

"They say it is because Congress and the Administration, whether Republican or Democrat, consistently overspend."

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 07:46 PM

Bobert,

Obama has made the deficit go up faster than Bush- so I have to think you would think if Bush was bad, Obama is worse. Must be nice to judge someone by other than what they do...

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 07:46 PM

There's a difference between flat lying and careful & selective truth-telling. Some may argue that it amounts to the same thing, but that difference is important.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 07:37 PM

First of all, when it comes to deficits, budgets, etc. there's always gonna be some fuzzy math... I mean, if the deficit seem high then convert it to percentage of the GNP... Ahhhhh. much better...

So let's get real here when we talk about some very abstract thing that would get an room full of economists arguing over...

But here's the deal...

In the period from 2000 to 2008 when Bush was runnin' up record deficits how many bb posts dealt with them??? Give up??? Zero!!! Yeah, that is amazing... No one post on the deficit as long as a Repub was in office...

Secondly, Bush did some very dirty little tricks by stickin' the next administration with lots of spending and debt service that was going to insure that it would take that next administration (Repub or Dem) at least a 1st term to get it under control... Kinda like that gift that keeps on giving...

But nevermind those incidentals...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 07:07 PM

The only governments that don't lie are those which exert such iron-handed control over their populaces that they don't need to care whether the truth or a judiciously told lie is more palatable. "The truth is the economy is in the toilet, the standard of living is medieval, the government is a sea of corruption, and the people have no freedom. If you don't like it, we'll shoot you."

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 06:35 PM

"Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy" George Carlin

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: gnu
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 05:32 PM

Oh dear... how damning... how sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 05:25 PM

Listen very carefully, laddy-buck: I. Am. Lying.

-Mudd to Norman the android, just before Norman's brain blew up

What's the worst lie your governmetn has ever told you or your family?

Mine is There is peace in the Middle East, said by Reagan's State Department just before dropping the barricades, taking everybody there off danger pay, and re-staffing the Beirut embassy with civilians, in the first few weeks of April, 1983. On April 18th, 1983, terrorists car-bombed it and killed 70-odd people, among whom, many of you know, that beloved man known to me as daddy, between my end of college and graduation.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Smokey.
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 05:17 PM

We in Blighty pride ourselves on having the best government money can buy.

(an old, traditional joke for the purists)

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 05:11 PM

We only pay them because we are given no choice about the matter, as far as I can see. Mind you, I DO like having roads, libraries, social services, public utilities, schools, a police force, etc.... ;-) So it ain't all bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Smokey.
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 05:04 PM

It's what we pay them for. Shame they do it so badly.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Amos
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 04:17 PM

Very funny, Kevin!!! If they claimed they did lie, then...

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 03:50 PM

I wouldn't trust any government that claimed it didn't lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 03:45 PM

They ALL flippin' lie, eh? They lie like a flippin' rug. If I wuz to get elected primed minister, I would lie too, man! How else is a guy gonna, like, get the most outta them grand oppertoonities in life and get rich enuff to retire to a life of flippin' leezure? Tell me that, eh?

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 03:38 PM

"I asked and the government said NO, it would not lie to us."

Phew!! That's a relief, 'cos just for a moment there I was starting to worry.

Pssssst...you didn't hear that from a bloke called Stephen, did you, Bruce, 'cos I've got a video of him somewhere telling you Canadians that you're longer in charge of your own economy. Honest!

Mind you, *everything* that the British Government is telling us is, of course, very true indeed.....possibly..

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 03:32 PM

Would a gorilla steal yer mango when yer back was turned?

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 03:04 PM

Ask an Indian....

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: gnu
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 02:27 PM

Rang a bell?

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Emma B
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 02:13 PM

why am I thinking about options for ursine arboreal lavatorial locations?

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 02:09 PM

Do you still beat your wife?

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 01:35 PM

RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??


I asked and the government said NO, it would not lie to us.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Amos
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 12:53 PM

Dumb question.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 12:29 PM

RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??

How about: "RE: BS: Would the government ever tell us the TRUTH about ANYTHING???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 12:23 PM

Bush lied to us. Actually lies are the common device for many politicians. Notice I didn't include every politician in this. I don't think that Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders is lying to us. The government is only as good as those that American voters put in place.

The "facts" used are generally propaganda devices as power moves. Lies are part of the strategy used.

Do you trust corporations more? Would they lie to us?

Actually corporations control a good deal of the government now so that they are
able to lie with impunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 12:22 PM

Is that a trick question? ;-D

Subject: BS: Would the government LIE to us??
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 12:17 PM

US Government 'hiding true amount of debt'

By Gregory Bresiger From: NewsCore September 20, 2010 9:09AM


THE actual figure of the US' national debt is much higher than the official sum of $US13.4 trillion given by the Congressional Budget Office, according to analysts cited on Sunday by the New York Post.
"The Government is lying about the amount of debt. It is engaging in Enron accounting," said Laurence Kotlikoff, an economist at Boston University and co-author of The Coming Generational Storm: What You Need to Know about America's Economic Future.

"The problem is we're seeing an explosion in spending," added Andrew Moylan, director of government affairs for the National Taxpayers Union.

In 1980, the debt - the accumulated red ink incurred by the Federal Government - was $US909 billion.

This represented some 33 per cent of gross domestic product, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

Thirty years later, based on this year's second-quarter numbers, the CBO said the debt was $US13.4 trillion, or 92 per cent of GDP.

The CBO estimates the debt will be at $US16.5 trillion in two years, or 100.6 per cent of GDP.

But these numbers are incomplete.

They do not count off-budget obligations such as required spending for Social Security and Medicare, whose programs represent a balloon payment for the Government as more Americans retire and collect benefits.

In the case of Social Security, beginning in 2016, the US Government will be paying out more than it is collecting in taxes.

Without basic measures - such as payment cuts or higher payroll taxes - the system could be on the road to bankruptcy, according to officials.

"Without changes," wrote Social Security Commissioner Michael Astrue, "by 2037 the Social Security Trust Fund will be exhausted. There will be enough money only to pay about $US0.76 for each dollar of benefits."

Mr Kotlikoff and Mr Moylan agree US national debt is much more than the official $US13.4 trillion number, but they disagree over how to add up the exact number.

Mr Kotlikoff says the debt is actually $US200 trillion.

Mr Moylan says the number is likely about $US60 trillion.

That is close to the figure quoted by David Walker, the US Comptroller General from 1998 to 2008.

He launched a campaign to convince Americans that the federal spending and debt is a greater threat than terrorism.

But whichever figure is accurate, all three agree that the problem has worsened in the last few years.

They say it is because Congress and the Administration, whether Republican or Democrat, consistently overspend.



Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/us-government-hiding-true-amount-of-debt/story-e6frfkur-1225926567256#ixzz10BIrwJM0