Children left in cars: 2 incidents

Subject: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Slag
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 04:35 AM

I have to share something most disturbing to me as it should be to everyone.

Several years ago I was at the local Post Office and I parked next to a nice new shiney black luxury car. A baby was in the car alone in a child car seat. The windows were tinted and I bent down to look in and see if I had missed seeing an adult. Nope. The baby, around one year of age, was alone. So I stayed and watched over it a good five minutes until the mother came out. I can't recall exactly what I said to her but it was along the lines that you can't run off and leave a child alone like that. It wasn't hot weather but this could have been a prime case for child abduction.

The response I got was not a kind "thank you" for caring for my child or "I'll never do that again!" No, I was cussed out and told to mind my own business. Does that hit any of you as odd?

So, just recently there I was at the PO again. A young mother in a big white SUV pulled in to a parking space right next to mine at the same time I parked. In the back seat was her maybe 9 month old child strapped into a car seat. I started to go in but then I heard her greet another woman whom she apparently knew as she stepped to the front of the truck. She did a quick look back at her baby and told the other women "It's OK. I'll just be a minute." I stopped in my tracks and leaned up against my front fender to watch over her child and to see just how long her minute was. I thought about how long it would take someone to walk over (the windows were part way down) open the door, unfasten the belts or cut them, lift the carrier out walk to a nearby vehicle and stuff the carrier to the floormat, start up and drive off. I figured that someone could get it done with ease and was half way thorugh the senario again when she walked out. She kind of looked at me funny and then with a little alarm as she realized that I was probably glowering at her as I looked from the baby to her and back a couple of times.

I spoke up and said "Oh that's OK. I just figured that someone ought to watch your baby while you were inside." Now she was shocked. And angry! At me! I turned and got back in my truck. I realized I had lost a piece of mail I intended posting, somewhere in the cab. As I was poking around under my seat I heard her power window going down so I turned toward her as she sat in her SUV. "I don't appreciate you criticizing my parenting." she said angrily. I said "I don't care what you think. You put your child in danger and anybody could have snatched him while you were gone." With that I turned my back to her and kept looking for my missing mail. She sat there for a long time and I know she had to be thinking hard about what had just happened or better, what hadn't happened. She was still sitting there when I pulled out to return home and look for my missing mail.

So, what do you think? Did I handle it right? Did I expose myself to possible recriminations? Should I have said anything? Should I have reported the incident? Or should I have just been a silent Guardian Angel?

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Slag
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 04:36 AM

Sorry, wrong section!

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 05:30 AM

I think the odds of anything adverse happening are so minute that there was probably no need for you to be so very careful. On the other hand the responses of the mothers were very rude.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 06:04 AM

My first thought, as the mother (though I would never have done such a thing as leave my kids alone like that) would be to think maybe you were some kind of threat to my child...in a sudden confrontation like that, logic can go out the window. Were I you, and have been in one situation, I would have called the authorities at once. I did so after watching a whole family get out of a car to go shopping in a big store ala WalMart. All of the children were old enough to walk, but one. That one, an infant, was left in a hot car with some of the windows down, the doors unlocked. The police take such things very seriously and were out straight away. It happened one other time, too, and I kept watch until the cops arrived.

It's a sad state when we might have to be concerned about our own altruistic actions, but no one should ever get away with leaving a child unattended, imo. As far as I am concerned you did a good deed. The mothers probably reacted out of fear and embarrassment.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 06:36 AM

Now on the other hand I would think alerting the police unnecessarily intrusive. I have had tannoy messages put out (citing the vehicle number) to alert (with luck) the owners of dogs appearing distressed after being left in cars, and I would have thought that a better bet ("Will the owner of car number ..... please go to their vehicle as their dog appears distressed") and that might have been the best of all worlds: no confrontation; with luck a positive outcome; and no police.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 12:17 PM

Nope, over here, if one sees a pet locked up in a car on a hot day with windows cracked open or not, the cops and animal control are usually called. I used to just put a little postcard under their windscreen/shield wipers which the Humane Society sold, but here in the high altitude the sun is even stronger and more deadly to children and pets. There is no time to mess around with notifying the store and hoping the person who left their pet that way will care enough to acknowledge the call.

There's a good chart, lower down on THIS PAGE, which shows how quickly a car becomes an "oven;" even at an air temp of 82 degrees, it heats up to 119 in a car after just a few minutes and that chart is for sea level. In some places it is even illegal to leave your dog in a hot car, just as it is for children.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 12:36 PM

No animals or children should be left in an unattended vehicle for any reason. The driver might meet with a accident away from the car and then what?

I don't care how short my leave from a car, my kids under the age of 12 were not left alone in it. But I did have issues with strange women following me and my kids around in shopping malls and one even approaching hysteria at a Pizza Hut in Florida over Andie when she was 5 years old.

Remember once waiting on a platform in Chelmsford for train and a appx 9 year old boy was sitting on the edge sticking his legs out over the rails. I pointed this out to the mother who promptly swore at me and told me to mind my own business. So I went and alerted one of the platform security, who promptly ignored me.

What I should have done was rung the police and social services. What I wanted to do was push that mother off the platform and bolt with that kid. He must be about 15 and a proper yob by now, if he survived.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 12:54 PM

'extracts from my State govt's Kids in Cars Fact Sheet.' It also lists cases of distressed children rescued from cars & excuses carers gave for leaving the child in the car - only gone a minute! (children drown, scald & fall in "a minute" & cars are stolen in "a minute") to can't afford childcare, so left child in car for 4 hour shift.

• On a typical Australian summer day, the temperature inside a parked car can be as much as 30-40 degrees hotter than the outside temperature i.e. on a 30-degree day the temperature inside the car could be as high as 70 degrees.

The legislation

The Children and Young Persons (Care and Protection) Act was proclaimed in December 2000. However, chapters 1 and 14 were
proclaimed in April 2000, including section 231 which covers the section about children left in cars/unattended. The maximum penalty
is $22,000. Section 231 of the Act reads:

A person who leaves any child or young person in the person's care in a motor vehicle without proper supervision for such period or in such circumstances that:

(a) the child or young person becomes or is likely to become emotionally distressed, or

(b) the child's or young person's health becomes or is likely to become permanently or temporarily impaired, is guilty of an offence.

-------------

We often get reports of children locked in cars - Mum who left child in car made a "very stupid mistake" this one has a pic of the child & some interesting comments from readers.

One of my friends is a nurse & saw a distressed child in a car last summer. After removing it, mother kept talking on her mobile/cell phone & ignored my friend's advice to take the child into the air conditioned shop she was standing beside to remove it's clothes & sponge it down.

Keep up the good work, Slag.

sandra

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 12:55 PM

It is incredible to me what people do with their children.
I was at a church rummage sale when a woman came in reporting that a new born had been left in a locked car. It was brutally hot that day.
The church had a speaker system and announced the license plate and description of the car. No response. So the police were called.
They broke into the car and removed the baby who seemed to be OK. The mother showed up - she had ignored the announcement because she was busy shopping and didn't expect they would call the police. I am not sure what happened after that.
One day in a huge shopping mall, a young mother and father refused to carry their 3 year old. The little boy was crying and exhausted. He simply stopped and they went on without him. I waited and watched. They were gone. So I picked him up, calmed him down and went looking for them
I found them in the mall arguing. When they saw I had their son they were ready for a fight. I simply said "He's tired and so are you. Maybe it's time to go home and get some rest." They took him and left - a bit embarrassed. Two kids with a baby and not a clue. Very sad.

There is reality show new this season I think where they put people in situations and watch how they react. One episode was a well dressed woman leaving her baby in the car while she went off shopping. Some people mumbled and left. Some stopped her before she had a chnace to leave the car. Some were outright threatening to her. Some called the police. Interesting that so many men including a homeless man were the most proactive.

Children disappear every day even from safe little country neighborhoods. I can't imagine how mailing a letter could be more important than that child's safety.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: kendall
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 03:52 PM

Those idiots should be sterilized.

I would not hesitate to call the Police and I would testify against the idiot who did it.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 04:02 PM

You did right, Slag.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 05:16 PM

You don't need to go nuclear straight away.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: gnu
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 05:35 PM

VT... "No animals or children should be left in an unattended vehicle for any reason. The driver might meet with a accident away from the car and then what?"

True. What is also true is that the intelligence of many human beings is exceptionally low. Just look at the recounts here in this thread, regarding their own children. Shocking, innit?

It's a fact... most (at least 50%) people are stunned as me arse. It's unfortunate, but it's true.

I could point out examples here at The Café but that would not be an intelligent thing to do. >;-)

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Slag
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 05:41 PM

Thank you all. BTW, Downunder body temp is read as 37C, not 98.6F if you didn't already know.

I thought about calling the police. Then I thought about their response time and about forever stigmatizing this person. I like to think that if she has any decency at all she will eventually come to the recognition of her foolishness. The other side of that debate is: what if she isn't thoughtful or caring? Have I further endangered that child by NOT alerting authorities? It's a judgment call and I suppose there is no real way of knowing that you made the right call. Like most things, you go with your gut and trust God for the rest.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 06:58 PM

Isn't the downunder temperature the same as temperature of the rest of the body?

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: gnu
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 07:46 PM

Yes.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: open mike
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 02:13 AM

the dangers of heat problems seem more possible than kidnap, etc. but
both are good reasons not to leave any living thing in a car..human
or otherwise...un=attended.http://dailymail.com/policebrfs/201009230580
there is a cavern near here that offers tours, Shasta Cavern. they put in a dog care area after having animals die in the parking lot while
their people were touring the (nice, cool) cave. it often gets near 120 degrees in near by Redding in the summer. the cave stays at 58 degrees.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 03:39 AM

Not all cases of unattended child is intended. Evidently child / car deaths have increased alarmingly across all socio-economic groups in the last several years.

http://www.divinecaroline.com/22354/101756-locked-in-child-car-deaths

If you are a harried parent off your normal schedule of dropping child at day care. Memory lapse is becoming quite common. How horrible it must be for those families.

But there is no excuse for taking the child along and leaving in car while you run errands, visit friends. And this should be punished very stringently, whether or not it resulted in harm to the child.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 04:03 AM

It's a hard one with such young children involved, if someone nipped next door even for 5 minutes leaving a child in a cot at home or on holiday it would be frowned on i.e. Madeline McCann. At least being shouted at will give the mother food for thought and make her think about her actions in future.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 06:50 AM

Hmmm.....


Seems that you have a chip on your shoulder about 'Big Shiney cars' and 'Big SUVs'.

If I had come out of a shop and found someone peering at my child inside the car you would probably be walking home with a broken nose.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: kendall
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 07:50 AM

I wonder how many people know that the normal body temperature for a dog is 100 degrees to start with?

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 08:05 AM

GUEST Silas ~~ but you beg the question, don't you? The point is, would your child have been left alone like that in the car, for anyone to peer at, in the first place? If not, simmer down. If so, then for shame!

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 08:46 AM

Leaving Kids unattended for 5 min in a car, particularly a car with heavy tinted windows will do no harm at all - get real.

Too many bloody busy bodies about for my comfort.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 09:24 AM

If you have that little regard for the safety and comfort of a child then you deserve no comfort yourself.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 09:32 AM

Rubbish.

The child was probably asleep, it wouldd be much more comforable being left alone than woken to spend five min in a shop under its mothers arm and to be strapped in again. As for saftey, you would not break into one of these cars in five min - no way!

Lets all stop being such PC aresholes and start living in the real world eh?

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 09:51 AM

A car if it's being stolen can be broken into in about 30 seconds. Do you have any idea how many times people have stolen cars with kids asleep in the back seat? Only to find them later and dump them? That's the real world.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 09:54 AM

Hardly ever. THAT'S the real world.

You may be able to smash a side window if you have come equipped, but that is it.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 09:57 AM

There is always the off chance that an infant could choke on milk apart from anything else or the engine catching on fire. It seems remote but strange things have happened. If a mother continues to choose to still take that risk then that is her fault.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 10:12 AM

Wasn't there recently a case, where a grandmother left young children she was supposed to be minding, in car while she ran a quick errand? She had a stroke while away from the car. She survived. The kids didn't.

You just don't know what might happen to you when you are away from the car. Struck by another car, slip on wet floor and knocked out cold. No one will assume you left children unattended in your car. Why is that? Because most people would not leave children unattended anywhere.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 10:29 AM

And, of course, there is the possibility of the car being struck by lightning at the same time the burglar is smashing the window and the grandmother is having a stroke whilst sitting in sweeny todds barber chair waiting for a shave, all just as the earthquake hits and a bee enters the car through a crack in the air-conditioning, stinging the child who dies from shock any way.

Yep, it could all happen....

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 10:44 AM

OK, Silas, you just go on being a smartarse if that is what turns you on ~~ & just observe how many of the rest of us are agreeing with you...

~M~

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 10:57 AM

VTam, interesting link. I have a hard time believing people could be so effected by just a small change in routine and whose kid is "sleeping quietly" in the backseat whilst on the way to somewhere? Jeepers, my dau. and I both used rearview mirrors to keep an eye on my grandson from the day we took him home; we were always aware of him being in the backseat. I know people make mistakes, but such a major one as caused by what that article states is a bit much, imo. It's almost as though it's making excuses for something for which there is no excuse.

This all reminds me of a story which came out when my kids were little. Some parents wanted to look at a new car in a showroom which had floor-to-ceiling windows. They parked their old car right in front of the windows with their sleeping toddler and their Irish setter (dog)in it. In they went, looking at the new car, etc. for a few minutes, glancing up every now and then to check on their child. At one point they looked up and saw their old car was on fire. Before they could get to it, they saw the dog jump out, stand on his hind legs with his front paws on the edge of the window, then reach in and grab the child by the clothing and drag the kid to safety. It was only because of the dog and the fact that back then safety seats were virtually unheard of, (NOT that that's a good thing,) but in this that the child's life was saved. Lucky for the parents they had a smart dog, but you can bet they never left their child in a car again.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 11:00 AM

Smartarse? No, not really. Just a realist.

Believe it or not, I am not unduly concerned about how many anal retentives on this thread agree with me or not, I would rather live in a world without snooping busybodies and take the miniscule risk than live like you lot appear to want to.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 12:08 PM

So go do so, if you truly are not concerned about the rest of us and have fun on your way.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 12:10 PM

If you would leave the rest of us to get on with life without your intrusive snooping, we would.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 12:53 PM

LMAO

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 01:08 PM

Although Silas's scenario was (purposely) pretty far over the top, let me be the Devil's Silas's advocate for a moment here.

About the grandma VT mentioned, who is said to have left the children in the car and gone to do an errand, only to have a stroke and the kids died, presumably (given the ongoing subject of this thread) from heat in the car. If you're worrying about possible tragic results from what "might" happen, she equally might have taken the children (didn't say how many, but let's say two) along, had a stroke in the middle of a busy street and the kids run to her, calling "Grandma! Grandma!" and get run over and killed by traffic, or some other highly unlikely scenario.

Yes, an adult driver should take steps to protect his/her powerless passengers, but if you're hanging it on all kinds of unlikely but possible mishaps like having a stroke, you will NEVER arrive at a foolproof 100% safe line of behavior. Even if grandma stays at home with the kids, with the doors all locked against a possible burglar, there might be a fire, or a satellite may fall on her house, so the kids might be better (or just as badly) off with grandma out in the car.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 01:26 PM

I used to work retail. I got to watch parents and small children a lot. I'm convinced that many modern parents, who were plopped in front of a TV at age 3, don't know much about kids or the world.

Let us take the case of a small child left in a car. Let's assume that the child is old enough to toddle. We don't just have to worry about a criminal abducting the child.

Case 1: The child gets afraid or bored, decides to go find parent. Child enters traffic, gets hit by a car.

Case 2: Child, C, decides to open car door. Person P is driving into the slot next to C's. P's car runs into C's door, doing $$ damage and injuring C and P.

Case 3: Location is a grocery store. Child gets out, walks toward door of store. Shopper, S, is walking out with armload of groceries. S activates the exit door, child walks into swinging door, catches steel door edge with middle of forehead. (I saved a little girl this way myself, once. Her mother did not appreciate my comment.)

Case 4: It is bitterly cold out. Below zero F. Child gets out of car, starts wandering around, is in danger of frostbite or exposure. (I know from the news and from friends who are parents that small children have no sense of danger or even discomfort from cold. They cannot step outside and tell themselves, "Damn, it's cold!")

Case 5: Katlaughing's story - car catches fire. Or starts rolling. Or (as mentioned) gets very hot. Or it's idling, and exhaust gets in. Cars which people don't want to turn off very often have a lot wrong with them.
==========
Decent, civilized adults protect little children when they sense something is wrong. Intelligent parents watch their little children all the time. Trouble is, there are a lot who are not intelligent. They may be well educated, but as parents, they do not have the knowledge they should.

If a parents objects to what you've done, just say "Safety first!" get in your car, and leave. They'll think it over. Probably.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 01:28 PM

If you are hoping to change someone's behaviour in this kind of context it's better to try to be as unthreatening as possible. That way you provide less of an opportunity for them to avoid thinking about the real issue.

It's easy to do something stupid, and one way and another we all do that from time to time in our own way.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 03:26 PM

I think you did the right thing but you should have called the police to protect yourself. She could have said you were stalking her, thinking of kidnapping her baby, saying vile thing to her etc. If it was on record that the police had been called, you would be better off, especially if you were a man. mg

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Lindy
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 02:04 AM

I think the type of woman or man who would leave their child inside a car alone even for a "minute" would be the same type of person who would not thank you for your concern. They are so ignorant and so blind to the dangers of leaving a child alone - what can you expect from such a stupid person but a negative reaction? I do commend you for your concern.

I think you should have made a note of their license plate and called the police. Even if the person had returned to their car and had left before police got there, it is still best to let the police know about it. Try to describe the car and the driver (if you see the driver)and the child to the police. Even on a day that is not hot, a car with windows up or barely cracked can get hot inside very, very fast.
And of course the child could be kidnapped or car stolen.

I have read so many accounts of this happening here in California but it happens everywhere. I even remember reading about a woman who had arrived home, took all her groceries in the house - but forgot her child who was in a car seat and about 2 years old parked in the driveway. No one driving down the street would have seen the child as the car was up the driveway and not on the street.

Unfortunately, she went to sit down on the couch and fell asleep - leaving her child in the car for several hours. The child died due to the heat inside the car with windows all up even though it wasn't a hot day but warm. The newspaper article said the temperature inside the car was extremly hot from what I remember reading about it. I'm not what they did to the woman after this tragedy happened. I just don't understand how she could forget her child or why she didn't take the child inside the house first and then go back to get the groceries.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: Slag
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 02:52 AM

First off, I think "Silas" is some sort of troll. You all decide what sort that may be. But to answer his allegations or rather, inuendo:

The discription of the vehicles was accurate. Sorry to disappont you but I drive a nice shiney vehicle too. My fiance sold her Escalade and downsized to a Subaru Tribeca. Does that help you? Not that it's any of your business or that it matters with regards to the incidents, except maybe to demonstrate socio-economic status.

Second, I didn't approach either vehicle in any manner nor would I unless the was an imminenet danger to the child.

Thirdly, it would only take a few seconds to abduct a child from the conditions that existed. You have obviously never been a parent or you would understand how quickly a situation can escalate.   A little one's head goes underwater you just have a split-second to act. It's life or death. Or a child chokes, just seconds. Or a medical situation happens like a seizure or an insect bite and you didn't know he or she was allergic. I have had to peform CPR on a child to save its life, have you?

Then: ordinarily I'd just over look your snideness becasue it is self-evident to any who are reading this thread; you're a jerk and you are just trying to stir it up a bit. But I'm not going to overlook it this time. No one but a psychotic would truly think the way you are purporting to think. At least, I hope it's just BS on your part becasue if it isn't, then you are a sick person, so why don't you butt out of this thread and go harass some other thread, OK?

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:43 AM

Thankfully most mums do use commonsense but there are always going to be the odd one or two that will take chances. Here in the UK if it is suspected that an infant is on it's own even for 10 minutes the Social Services can be alerted about it if noticed by eagle eyed neighbours. People will now intervene a bit more if it is suspected that a child is being neglected. Mainly because Social Services here have had some bad press over failing a couple of children resulting in tragedy. So people will try and prevent anything if they possibly can. It's a long time since mine were that little but are there any standard safety warnings for mothers these days not to leave little ones on their own in vehicles the same as in a house? It should be obvious but not everyone is the same. A public health information directed to all parents so that everyone understands would be a good idea similar to when the law changed for smoking in public places. Everyone did comply with that. I have to admit though if I am busy or in a hurry I don't always think to look to see if young children are on their own. May be I should keep my eyes open more.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 08:35 AM

If a child ids left in a car, it is left in a car, it should not matter what make, model age or size the car is, so why do you have to say that it was a 'shiney black one' (sic) or a 'Big white SUV' it is irrelevant. This is why it appears to other people that you have some psychological problem with certain cars, much as we have the same problem in the UK with some loony's about 4x4 vehicles. I am not really interested in just what your fiancé does or don't do to be honest, it is of no consequence.

So you think the children in question were in imminent danger? Really? What exact imminent danger were they in?

If you had any idea just how secure modern child seats are and just how long it takes to install and remove a child from them you may revise your opinion on how long it would take to abduct a child from one, let alone the difficulty of breaching the security systems of a modern car.

Now, if a child's head goes under water, you do NOT have to respond within a split second, far from it – no child would ever learn to swim if that was the case.

Now, as it happens I am a parent of two children, my daughter is almost eighteen and my son is almost twenty. I am pleased and proud that they have grown up as sensible young adults who are not afraid of their own shadow and do not suffer from irrational fears for their own safety.

So I suggest that you try to think a little more rationally and perhaps give more attention to things that concern you personally rather than poking your evidently overlarge proboscis into other peoples affairs.

Cheers

Silas the Troll

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: kendall
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 09:12 AM

My house has never burned down but I still carry insurance. Logic makes me do that. It would only take one fire to wipe me out, so not having insurance is insane.

Some years ago, a Mother went to the Library in Camden Maine. The Library was on the inside of a curve in the street. She took her child with her, and in a matter of minutes, a tractor trailer came around the curve going too fast, tipped over and squashed that car flat. Of course, that was only one time, and probably won't happen again, but anyone with an IQ over 60 would never leave a child in a car unattended.
Silas, it is WE who live in the real world.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 09:24 AM

With respect Kendall, you don't.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 10:14 AM

Read my post, Silas. Look at the ways a child left alone can be hurt by normal people doing ordinary things.
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Near my house in a convenience store called the Quik-Trip. We have all learned that Quik-Trip customers cannot be trusted at all. Don't expect them to follow the rules of the road or to drive fairly. (A friend of mine told me that QT sponsors the most violent shows on TV.)

For a while, the QT customers frequently left their cars running as they raced in for beer, videos, or ciggies. A thief would hang about and steal those cars. Piece of cake, right? The sixth time, the thief made off with the vehicle, heard a funny noise, and realized with horror that there was a young kid in the car. S/he abandoned the car one block from the store, where police found it. The child was still in it.

After that there were no more car thefts at our QT. The thief must have decided that those QT people are not just stupid, they're dangerous. They can get a simple, straightforward car thief involved in the terrible felony of kidnapping, just to get their ciggies quicker. I have to agree.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 10:15 AM

OK let's look at a real life scenario.

A mother of two small children (pre-toddler) needs to go shopping. She takes the kids out to the car, straps them into the child seats, hops into the front seat and is about to drive off when she realises she has forgotten to pick up her purse that is sitting on the kitchen table.

Question; Does she un-strap the kids, take them back into the house with her to collect the purse, come back out and strap them in again, or does she simply nip back into the house quickly and retrieve her purse, leaving the kids strapped in the car?

Answer honestly if you can.

So, she does her shopping, trailing the kids around the supermarket in a double trolley, packs all her groceries at the checkout, trundles back to the car, loads up the goods, straps the kids in and starts to drive home. Halfway home both kids are fast asleep, but she remembers that she needs a postage stamp and stops outside the post office on the way home to buy one. Now, does she wake both kids up (both will probably be quite fractious and tearful if she does) un-strap them, carry them both into the post office, buy one stamp, carry them both out, strap them back in again and continue her journey? Or does she make sure that they are soundly asleep, get out, secure the vehicle and pop into the post office to quickly buy a stamp?

This is the REAL world. What would she realistically do?

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 10:20 AM

I don't know what she would do but I know what I would do. Either I would postpone the postage stamp or wake the kids. Same for the purse. But I don't live in the real world. I live in the one where kids are kidnapped, raped and murdered every day.

Subject: RE: Children left in cars: 2 incidents
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 10:23 AM

OK Sinsull

This is the UK.

How many kids are kidnapped, raped and murdered every YEAR in this country?

(I don't believe you btw)