'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots

Subject: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Folknacious
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 08:12 AM

I've only just had time to properly read the October Froots, and was quite taken by Ian Anderson's article headed "The '70s, Deleted". If you haven't seen it, it deals with all the mythologising of certain now over-rated artists of the 60's/70's era and the airbrushing of many others out of folk history, and I think it says a lot of things that need to be said about historical perspectives. Without necessarily going over all the Bulmer saga again here, what thoughts do others have from reading it?

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 08:25 AM

Not a big fRoots fan but Rob Young's book 'Electric Eden' gives and excellent perspective on the folk music of the period.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Folknacious
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 08:34 AM

The article in Froots was, apparently, partly inspired by reading that book and noting its omissions.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Treacle Bolly
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 09:54 AM

Ian Anderson has made reference in the past to "the Nick Drake industry". Drake seems to be cited as an influence these days by almost every indie rock band/singer-songwriter/BBC Radio 2 DJ. I like his stuff myself, but he is just a teensy bit overrated I feel. And many others from that era are unjustly neglected.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 11:24 AM

Who are the artists Anderson says were "deleted"?

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 03:02 PM

Folknacious, can you answer?

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Folknacious
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 12:24 PM

Referring to history as set out in the recent books, and I can confirm this is the case with Electric Eden as I've just read it, he refers for example to the artists who recorded for labels like Trailer (N Jones, the Coes, Peggs, Arthurs, T Rose, D Burland etc) and Village Thing (S Tilston, W Jones, D Evans etc) and were relatively popular live folk performers at the time. On the other hand he thinks that the reputations of people like Nick Drake, Vashti Bunyan etc whose major label records sold poorly and had no live performing career have got over-rated by comparison.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: pavane
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 07:30 AM

You mean those whose music was deleted through no fault of their own?

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Folknacious
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 01:03 PM

The feature has now been archived on the Froots web siteso you can read it for yourself.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Howard Jones
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 03:21 PM

Much sense there from IAA. The 1970s was arguably the period when a distinctive British folk music emerged from the experimentation and eclecticism of the 60s. It is that period which still forms the basis of much what happens today.

I have a copy of Fred Woods' Folk Revival on my bookshelf. Published in 1979 and therefore much closer to the period, it makes no mention at all of either Nick Drake or Vashti Bunyan.

I'm partway through reading Electric Eden and still haven't made up my mind about it.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 04:56 PM

a thought provoking article.
to some extent I agree with Ian Anderson.
the photograph of Nic jones is interesting, who do we see in the back ground of that PHOTO but Peter Bond, and that is indeed an interesting pointer, the important song writers who were performing in the folk clubs of the 1970s....PeterBond, Bill Caddick, Leon Rosselson,Harvey Andrews,Ewan Maccoll[imo]much more important and much more an integral part of the uk folk scene than Vasthi Bunyan or Nick Drake.
I was there,and with the greatest respect these people should not be forgotten either.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 04:58 PM

Interesting comment, Dick. I don't think anyone's likely to forget MacColl, Leon Rosselson or even Harvey Andrews. On the other hand, I'm afraid I've never heard of Bill Caddick or Peter Bond.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Howard Jones
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 03:11 AM

QED

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 06:35 AM

Pete Bond Thread

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 06:37 AM

Bill - Wikipedia

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 07:38 AM

OK, some fairish points made in the article. But it's no good Ian complaining about certain people being forgotten because they didn't make a record or about the the level of Drake et al worship going on now. It's the way of the world.

To be cynical, it's a good career move to die young, particularly if the rights to your recordings happen to be held by a major media organisation like Universal Music. Without this, would Nick Drake's music have cropped up on a TV car ad? And would Sandy Denny's new £150 boxed set have surfaced? Never mind that Drake was incapable of promoting his work during his lifetime, and that Sandy was anything but the wispy art nouveau nymph portrayed on the artwork. At least they are getting a hearing, and hopefully their relatives are getting some of the dosh.

But I'm optimistic that if it's good it will continue to be heard, thanks largely to the Interweb. For instance the name of Shirley Collins is whispered with awe in some quarters, there seems to be a Peter Bellamy cult developing, and what on earth will happen if John Tams crops up in Steven Spielberg's film of "War Horse"?

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 07:50 AM

Ta. My view of IAA's argument is skewed slightly by the fact that, although I only discovered this stuff within the last few years, I've heard Nic Jones's first four albums (and the Bandoggs LP), Tony Rose's first four and Tony Capstick*'s first three (plus the two live sets with Burland and Gaughan) and love them dearly - whereas I've never heard anything by Vashti Bunyan apart from that song off that advert. So I find it hard to put myself in the shoes of the record-buying public for whom, apparently, VB equals Sixties Folk. (On the other hand, I do think Nick Drake was actually quite good, which is also a view IAA clearly doesn't share!)

The oblivion isn't total, in other words, and I think IAA conflated two different claims. It's certainly true that Leader/Trailer and other small labels (e.g. Dingle's or Rubber Records) don't get a look-in when the retrospectives are being written: for programmes like Folk Britannia the folk landscape stretches from Vertigo to Island to Transatlantic, plus Topic on the far side of Trad Canyon. I'm much more sceptical about the claim that the artists have been *forgotten*: a lot of this stuff is still celebrated - and can still be found if you do a bit of digging and ask the right people.

On the other hand, forgotten is precisely what some artists have been, and for me Dick's comment was a useful reminder of that.

*I don't think the article actually mentions Capstick, which is a very regrettable omission. Admittedly he was part of the drift from folk into comedy, but even when his gigs were half-and-half music and banter he was a stunning folksinger.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 08:14 AM

oh and PAUL METSERS, strictly speaking he was 1979 to 1990, but he just creeps in to the seventies.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 08:35 AM

I feel quite honoured that my first Vinyl LP "CROWS" was on the Dingle label.
Looking forward to it becoming a cult re-issue....(careful how you spell that!)
Maybe I might make some money....(Sound of breath not holding)

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: theleveller
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 08:51 AM

I've had a brief scan of the article and I think there's a bit more to why some artistes didn't gain more universal popularity. In the late 60s/early 70s there were only two ways to access the music – at live gigs or on LPs. And there were only so many gigs you could go to in a week, so it would often boil down to "do I go to Eel Pie Island to see Chicken Shack or to The Oak to see a folk act?" As regards buying records, it was a question of economics. As a 19/20-year old living in London, my reasonably well paid job earned me around £12-15 a week after tax. Out of this I had to pay rent, buy food, clothes, beer (not to mention the odd ounce of dope) – in fact everything. LPs cost around thirty bob (£1.50) so I could only afford one or maybe two a month. Like which gigs we went to, it was a hard choice – especially as the music scene seemed to be bursting with new talent with the advent of 'underground', which combined influences from a hugely eclectic range of musical genres. So, I'm afraid, a lot of great artists had to be virtually ignored in favour of a few favourites.

Sure I remember the likes of Mick Softley, Wizz Jones, Jackson C Frank, Pete Coe, Bob and Carole Pegg (who I really loved) and Robin & Barry Dransfield (who I knew personally from the Yorkshire folk scene)etc. I even have LPs of some of them, but sitting in the Cousins on a Saturday night, it never occurred to us that some of the people we were listening to were actually trying to make a living out of their music. Rather than buy an album we just lent them to each other.

Those who have latterly become folk 'icons' have largely done so because of hype from journalists and writers and probably because their music has a renewed resonance today. I dunno, but I certainly enjoy Nick Drake more now than I did when I was given a free LP of Pink Moon by someone who worked for Island Records (still got it, though).

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 10:31 AM

'froots' connection with 70's Bristol folk scene reminds me how much
'folk' music seemed to be such a regular staple diet
on local West country TV when I was a teenager
developing my likes & dislikes in music.


I guess 'folk' was an easy cheap option to fill half an hours airtime
on a dull weekday evening...

so mustn't forget how high profile & popular Brenda Wootton was
for a few years back in the mid 70's.

me & my mates only saw her live once at a local art centre.

Last time i investigated, her CD's were available online
from a Cornish website,
but I couldn't establish if they were proper remastered
factory pressed silver CDs
or home made CDrs copied from old vinyl..

..couldn't scrape the cash up to take a risk.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: GUEST,guest - Jim Younger
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 11:57 AM

Ralphie wrote: "I feel quite honoured that my first Vinyl LP "CROWS" was on the Dingle label.
Looking forward to it becoming a cult re-issue....(careful how you spell that!)
Maybe I might make some money....(Sound of breath not holding)"

No chance, I suppose, of the Crows' Dingle label first record and the Crows' Dragon label second record ('No bones or grease') coming out together? Excellent music on both.

By the way, Steve(en) Faux, who was on 'No bones or grease' composed the music for 'A History of the World in 100 Objects' (R4) and very good music it is too.

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 12:59 PM

Those who have latterly become folk 'icons' have largely done so because of hype from journalists and writers and probably because their music has a renewed resonance today.quote the leveller.
spot on with that comment leveller, particularly the hype bit, one or two of the folk icons cant even get their diction clear,so that we can understand the words, another example of the pop world intermingling with folk, if the sound is more important than the words, why not just sing rhubarb rhubarb, or try this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbkNxYaULBw

Subject: RE: 'The 70s, Deleted' article in Froots
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 01:02 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtX3M3SuKlQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtX3M3SuKlQ Iguess it was,land of my fathers