Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23]


BS: Language Pet Peeves

Charmion 19 May 20 - 09:59 AM
Mrrzy 19 May 20 - 08:51 AM
Steve Shaw 19 May 20 - 05:50 AM
Steve Shaw 19 May 20 - 05:45 AM
Doug Chadwick 19 May 20 - 05:37 AM
Mrrzy 18 May 20 - 11:00 PM
meself 18 May 20 - 10:14 PM
Joe_F 18 May 20 - 09:55 PM
Mrrzy 18 May 20 - 09:03 PM
Charmion 18 May 20 - 08:50 PM
Mrrzy 18 May 20 - 04:46 PM
Steve Shaw 18 May 20 - 03:56 PM
Mrrzy 18 May 20 - 01:12 PM
Doug Chadwick 18 May 20 - 12:53 PM
Mrrzy 18 May 20 - 12:53 PM
Charmion's brother Andrew 18 May 20 - 12:39 PM
Charmion 18 May 20 - 11:25 AM
Steve Shaw 17 May 20 - 07:42 PM
Mrrzy 17 May 20 - 07:02 PM
Mrrzy 17 May 20 - 01:39 PM
Steve Shaw 17 May 20 - 12:01 PM
Steve Shaw 17 May 20 - 10:43 AM
Steve Shaw 17 May 20 - 10:41 AM
Mrrzy 17 May 20 - 09:27 AM
Doug Chadwick 17 May 20 - 09:16 AM
weerover 17 May 20 - 09:12 AM
Steve Shaw 17 May 20 - 08:42 AM
Mrrzy 17 May 20 - 06:52 AM
Doug Chadwick 17 May 20 - 05:10 AM
Joe_F 16 May 20 - 06:42 PM
Steve Shaw 15 May 20 - 06:29 PM
The Sandman 15 May 20 - 04:43 PM
Mrrzy 15 May 20 - 11:08 AM
Joe MacGillivray 15 May 20 - 10:34 AM
Mrrzy 15 May 20 - 07:35 AM
G-Force 15 May 20 - 05:45 AM
Doug Chadwick 15 May 20 - 05:00 AM
The Sandman 15 May 20 - 01:10 AM
Joe_F 14 May 20 - 06:37 PM
meself 14 May 20 - 01:57 PM
Mrrzy 14 May 20 - 01:21 PM
Gurney 13 May 20 - 09:16 PM
Steve Shaw 13 May 20 - 09:06 PM
Charmion 13 May 20 - 08:54 PM
Mrrzy 13 May 20 - 05:46 PM
Charmion 13 May 20 - 01:25 PM
Backwoodsman 13 May 20 - 01:12 PM
Mrrzy 13 May 20 - 12:56 PM
meself 13 May 20 - 12:40 PM
Doug Chadwick 13 May 20 - 12:19 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Charmion
Date: 19 May 20 - 09:59 AM

"Stray bullet" is one of those phrases that contains a whole 'nother story. Like "collateral damage".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 May 20 - 08:51 AM

In the US at least, shot defaults to gun. You would specify if a bow were used.

Note I would say shot with a bow, not with an arrow, as I would say gun, not bullet.

Here's one that bugs me: stray bullet. No, it didn't get out the side door while the shooter wasn't paying attention. The vic was just not the *intended* target.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 20 - 05:50 AM

Helen Willetts, a BBC weather presenter, once informed us that " the overnight rain had washed the humidity out of the air." :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 20 - 05:45 AM

I saw this beauty somewhere once, possibly an obituary in the local rag (made-up names inserted): "Albert married the late Margaret in 1949..."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 May 20 - 05:37 AM

On the subject of untimely death, I am always irked when I read that someone has been shot “by a gun”.

-------- : --------

Or just say shot.



OK, it should be shot "with a gun" rather than shot "by a gun" and, normally, "shot" would do without further qualification; but - just to be picky - it could have been "shot with a crossbow" or "shot with an arrow". In fact, though it might be technically incorrect, I think I would accept "shot by an arrow" without flinching.

DC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 20 - 11:00 PM

Fascinating geographical study there.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 18 May 20 - 10:14 PM

When I was growing up in south-western Ontario, "you and whose army?" was a question I was often asked, so I don't associate it with Liverpool or Glasgow or anywhere else. As for Mike Meyers, he came along a little later, so it might have a different association for him; I don't know.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 May 20 - 09:55 PM

Mrrzy: When I was a kid in southern California (1940s), my mother made it "You and what troop of Marines?". I don't know where she got it from. She came from the Middle West.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 20 - 09:03 PM

Or just say shot.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Charmion
Date: 18 May 20 - 08:50 PM

On the subject of untimely death, I am always irked when I read that someone has been shot “by a gun”.

Latin has this neat thing where you put the noun in a special form (or “case”) to indicate whether it is the direct object (accusative), indirect object (dative), or something else but still related to the verb (ablative). One of the several things the ablative does is indicate that a thing is the agent through which an action happens, and you translate it using the preposition “with”.

I really wish English had an ablative case so journalists would write “by a bad guy with a gun”.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 20 - 04:46 PM

At least they said Widow. I watch a lot of murder mysteries where they say Wife or Husband of (murder victim). Yes, that peeves me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 May 20 - 03:56 PM

"The widow of the late Mr Smith...". :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 20 - 01:12 PM

Ok different peeve: when someone is killed BY something, say so, newspaper folk. Headlines saying Woman killed after being run over makes it sound like she survived being run over only to be shot or something afterwards.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 18 May 20 - 12:53 PM

..... because it is a typical bit of Glaswegian repartee.

I agree that it is "You and whose army" but it is not limited to Glasgow. It was a common bit bravado when I was growing up in Liverpool. If the actor's family came from Liverpool, maybe that's where he picked it up.

DC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 20 - 12:53 PM

Shrek said "...and what army?" but Dick Francis wrote "...and whose army?" so given the clarification (of my definitely unclear post, speaking of peeves) I think What may be North American and Whose from (geographically if not politically) Europe.

Imma switch to Whose. It means to me that even *with* an army *you* couldn't do it. I love the added layer of sneer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 18 May 20 - 12:39 PM

Mike Myers was born in Scarberia, not Liverpool. ("Scarberia" is the nickname given to the dreary suburb of Toronto that is known for too much asphalt and too few trees.) His reputation for being "difficult to work with" comes in part from the making of "Shrek." He recorded the voice in his Canadian accent, was not happy with the result and asked to re-record it. The second go at it he did with his "Scots" accent.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Charmion
Date: 18 May 20 - 11:25 AM

In my part of the world, Mrrzy, it's "you and whose army?"

Shrek is voiced by an English-born Canadian actor, Mike Myers, whose family emigrated from Liverpool to Scarborough, a suburb of Toronto, when he was a child.

George MacDonald Fraser quotes "you and whose army" in one of his short stories about life in a post-war Scottish infantry regiment, collected in one volume as The Complete MacAuslan. If I recall correctly, Shrek has a Scottish accent, and Myers (or the scriptwriter) may have added the insult because it is a typical bit of Glaswegian repartee.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 May 20 - 07:42 PM

If anyone has translator notes for that last post, please forward....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 May 20 - 07:02 PM

Which is it, You and *what* army or Tou and *whose* army? They are differently disdainful to me. I would think England v. US but I've heard both from both.
Shrek comes to mind, American movie but nonAmerican English-speaking ogre.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 May 20 - 01:39 PM

Love dangling participles.

I fell in love with a weather forecaster when they read the teleprompter which said Ground Fog, stopped, turned to the camera and said Well of course it's *ground*! If it weren't on the ground it'd be up in the air and be *clouds*!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 May 20 - 12:01 PM

Rushing to catch the train, my umbrella fell out of my pocket.

Throwing the bread into the pond, the ducks ate it all up.

After spending decades in the attic, I uncovered my childhood school exercise books.

I chased the cat in my pyjamas out of the garden.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 May 20 - 10:43 AM

"PIN number."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 May 20 - 10:41 AM

Pleonasms can be quite entertaining. Our local BBC weatherman speaks of "dawn tomorrow morning" just about every day. Not quite as funny as DCI Grimm in the Thin Blue Line with his "8 AM in the morning hundred hours." "Tuna fish" is another belter. "ATM machine." HIV virus." A good Cloughie one: "In actual fact...". My much reviled "On a daily basis." Though I suppose Shakespeare might have done it on purpose in Julius Caesar when he had Mark Antony, standing over Caesar's bloodied body, saying that it was "the most unkindest cut of all."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 May 20 - 09:27 AM

Thinking IS to oneself, yeah! That's why you have to say Out Loud when talking and not just thinking.
Thinking out loud is oxymoronic. Thinking to oneself is redundant.
I love this thread. I hadn't noticed either of those before.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 May 20 - 09:16 AM

I thought to myself

.. as against thinking out loud.

DC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: weerover
Date: 17 May 20 - 09:12 AM

Watching a documentary about emergency services this morning, The commentator said one crash victim had damaged vertebrae "in her back" (actually it sounded like he said "vertebra" as the plural, but can't be sure).

I have a number of everyday ones that bug me inordinately, such as "I thought to myself": don't know who else you could think to.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 May 20 - 08:42 AM

I have to say...


(Not if you don't want, you don't have to!)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 May 20 - 06:52 AM

Let me say this about that...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 May 20 - 05:10 AM

Let me make it absolutely clear. The Government's policy is that both my wife and I should be able to take exercise whenever and wherever we choose and that our chosen form of exercise is walking. Current scientific evidence suggests that face masks could provide a barrier to communication but wearing one, together with social distancing, gives me increased confidence that my wife has received all the useful information I have to give at this time.

DC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe_F
Date: 16 May 20 - 06:42 PM

A wise man once said nothing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 May 20 - 06:29 PM

"my wife and me went for a walk, and i didnt say nothing"

Get a grip, Dick. You mean:

my wife and me, like, went for a walk, and i didnt say nothing, innit"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 20 - 04:43 PM

my wife and me went for a walk, and i didnt say nothing


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 May 20 - 11:08 AM

I like the Southetn (US) y'all, for general plural, and All y'all for more inclusive plural.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe MacGillivray
Date: 15 May 20 - 10:34 AM

In regards to some of these recent posts: Soldier; in Gaelic, Soldier is saighdear which would come from archer.

Thu is singular and sibh is plural for you and youse respectfully. It also applies to age, how well you know the person or an authority figure. To keep it basic, I made it on singular and plural. The concept in Nova Scotia remains with some using youse as the plural.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 May 20 - 07:35 AM

Quakers like my grandpa said Thee to family and other Quakers.
I still wonder what people thought as You took over from Thee. Whippersnappers being cold and distant, probably.
Hungarian has 4 grammatical levels of politeness: regular conjugation 2nd person singular (like Tu) for peers, children, animals, gods; a self-type of conjugation (like And how is himself today?) for showing respect to social inferiors like street sweepers; regular 3nd person conjugation for kids-to-adults or work colleagues etc, and a "pleases" 3rd person like Does it please to come this way) for old folks. I have gotten into trouble with these.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: G-Force
Date: 15 May 20 - 05:45 AM

Indeed. I can still remember my university digs landlord in Sheffield saying " A tha goin' to't match?" (Definitely the Blades, not the Owls).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 May 20 - 05:00 AM

The English singular form can still be heard in the Yorkshire dialect.

DC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 20 - 01:10 AM

Fascinating , i must remember that ,next time i talk to the Tsar


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe_F
Date: 14 May 20 - 06:37 PM

Mrrzy: In Bible English, the singular forms were thou, thee, thy, thine, and the plural forms were ye, you, your, yours. However (as in many European languages), it was considered polite to use the plural form in addressing a superior. That worked its way down to addressing equals, and by Shakespeare's time it was getting to be an insult to "thou" someone (other than God).

In other languages the process has not gone so far; it is a sign of intimacy to use the "thou" forms. In German, there is actually a ceremony for that: you drink a toast while linking elbows, and thereafter you are buddies or sweethearts and call each other du instead of sie. When I studied Russian we learned an amusing list of persons whom one still called "ty" instead of "vy": family, close friends, children, animals, God, and the Tsar.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:57 PM

GB Shaw, said (as you are all aware): "In German, a turnip has sex but a woman does not."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:21 PM

German has neuter but then doesn't use it for neuter things. Table is masculine. Sun is feminine. Maiden is neuter. Sigh.

Spanish and French have masculine and feminine but no neuter. I use both in written French, e.g. je suis content(e). Spoken is more difficult... I tend to pause after Content, then pronounce the T.

In Spanish the noun Mar (sea) is masculine unless you are a sailor, when it becomes feminine.
In French, the noun Amour (love) is masculine in the singular and feminine in the plural. Now *that* tells you something!

The funniest was someone appropriately using They (referring to me) at which point I almost said No, that was me. Learning curves all around.

I wonder what people thought while You, originally plural (thee was the singular), was shifting to mean the singular as well...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Gurney
Date: 13 May 20 - 09:16 PM

Isn't this good!   The English language, in terms of number of accepted words, is by far the largest in the world. There are more words therein than there are in the next TWO largest languages, French and German.

And here we are, lumbered with a population hell-bent on adding to it!

Such a shame that these lumberers aren't lexicographers reviving currently semi-forgotten words. In my opinion.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 20 - 09:06 PM

We have lady policemen in Cornwall.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Charmion
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:54 PM

Mrrzy, you’re paddling upstream on that one. English doesn’t go there yet.

If that’s the hill you’ve chosen to die on, you may have to move to a place where German or Spanish is spoken.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 May 20 - 05:46 PM

Yeah, I don't like -person as a gender-neutral (and this from a non-binary human!) - I say Chair, not Chairperson, for instance. Chairperson just sounds made-up and lip-service-y. Serviceperson is ok as invented terms go, but we already *have* soldier as an organic, gender- and service-neutral term...
I gather it's not neutral to people *in* the services but I'm not, so I'm ok with that.

I'm a pain. I want to be referred to in the 3rd person as They, which isn't going over well either...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Charmion
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:25 PM

Matelot is a sailor whether in the NAVY or not.

Like I said, way up thread, a sailor can be a civilian, as in a merchant mariner or a yachtsman.

Meself is correct. Canadians tend to recast the sentence, saying "he's in the forces". Or "farces", depending on their experience of life in The Mob.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:12 PM

Serviceperson doesn’t, though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 May 20 - 12:56 PM

Serviceman/woman requires looking under, not just at, the uniform.

Matelot is sailor whether in the military or not, I thought...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 13 May 20 - 12:40 PM

Most people in Canada, I believe, simply use "in the forces" (or "farces", depending on the mood); e.g., "he's in the forces, so they move around a lot". It would be rare to hear, "he's a soldier ...."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 May 20 - 12:19 PM

Miriam-Webster dictionary gives Serviceperson as a member of the armed forces.

DC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 24 October 5:57 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.