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BS: Language Pet Peeves

GUEST,CrazyEddie 04 Oct 10 - 10:51 AM
s&r 04 Oct 10 - 10:45 AM
Penny S. 04 Oct 10 - 10:36 AM
Uncle_DaveO 04 Oct 10 - 10:19 AM
Jeanie 04 Oct 10 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,Patsy 04 Oct 10 - 08:59 AM
Hrothgar 04 Oct 10 - 08:32 AM
GUEST,Nigel 04 Oct 10 - 08:02 AM
Wyrd Sister 04 Oct 10 - 06:24 AM
s&r 04 Oct 10 - 06:08 AM
s&r 04 Oct 10 - 05:59 AM
GUEST,Patsy 04 Oct 10 - 05:23 AM
Wolfhound person 04 Oct 10 - 04:09 AM
Darowyn 04 Oct 10 - 03:52 AM
Slag 03 Oct 10 - 11:44 PM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Oct 10 - 09:39 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Oct 10 - 09:37 PM
maple_leaf_boy 03 Oct 10 - 06:41 PM
The Fooles Troupe 03 Oct 10 - 06:27 PM
katlaughing 03 Oct 10 - 03:57 PM
Penny S. 03 Oct 10 - 03:40 PM
Penny S. 03 Oct 10 - 03:35 PM
YorkshireYankee 03 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM
MGM·Lion 03 Oct 10 - 01:15 PM
Ed T 03 Oct 10 - 01:13 PM
Uncle_DaveO 03 Oct 10 - 12:48 PM
MGM·Lion 03 Oct 10 - 12:02 PM
GUEST,999 03 Oct 10 - 10:11 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 03 Oct 10 - 10:08 AM
Jim Dixon 03 Oct 10 - 10:00 AM
Paul Burke 03 Oct 10 - 09:27 AM
MGM·Lion 03 Oct 10 - 06:47 AM
MGM·Lion 03 Oct 10 - 05:51 AM
Paul Burke 03 Oct 10 - 05:37 AM
Wyrd Sister 03 Oct 10 - 05:19 AM
Abdul The Bul Bul 03 Oct 10 - 04:53 AM
GUEST,FloraG 03 Oct 10 - 04:01 AM
Liz the Squeak 03 Oct 10 - 04:01 AM
Dave Hanson 03 Oct 10 - 03:30 AM
MGM·Lion 03 Oct 10 - 02:50 AM
The Fooles Troupe 03 Oct 10 - 01:55 AM
GUEST,Bert 03 Oct 10 - 01:49 AM
katlaughing 02 Oct 10 - 11:42 PM
Jim Dixon 02 Oct 10 - 11:01 PM
michaelr 02 Oct 10 - 10:12 PM
Phil Cooper 02 Oct 10 - 09:33 PM
Uncle_DaveO 02 Oct 10 - 09:01 PM
Jim Dixon 02 Oct 10 - 07:28 PM
Uncle_DaveO 02 Oct 10 - 06:15 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Oct 10 - 05:52 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:51 AM

Patsy's "Can I be frank?" brings to mind a Goons' sequence

Gridpype Thynne: "I'll I be Frank?"

Moriarty: "Yes, I'll be Gladys"

(Sound of Thynne slapping Moriaty across the face)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: s&r
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:45 AM

A Hostelry every time. The omission of the 'h' sound is a bizarre hangover from court pronunciation when French was the language of the court. Kestionnaire and onvelope are similar.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Penny S.
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:36 AM

Putting "Without Prejudice" at the head of an offensive document intended to damage someone else. Only known one usage of it, and I don't know the correct meaning of the phrase.

Using the term "goodwill payment" of a payment from a debtor designed to cover a portion of expenditure by the group he was in debt to.

Same misuser of language in each case, and one who wouldn't, indeed didn't, recognise real goodwill when it was offered.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:19 AM

I think it was S&R who declared:

Don't like the affectation of an otel, but like even less an hotel with the'h' aspirated.

So is "a hostelry" or maybe "an 'ostelry" better than those?

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jeanie
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 09:30 AM

I find this very irritating in TV and Radio interviews with members of the public:

"I'm married to Mary" - or "This is Bert Johnson, and you're married to Mary, is that right, Bert ?"

as if there is only ONE person called Mary in the whole world ! It should be: "My wife's name is Mary" or "...and your wife's name is Mary...."

Another pet peeve of mine is a pronunciation issue: the use of an open "ay" sound for the rounded "o" sound. I actually stopped listening to my local radio station because the travel reporter annoyed me so much with his pronunciation: "All clear on the M25 say far" (instead of "so far"). The presenter of a recent archaeology programme on TV did the same, and kept talking about "stanes" and "banes". This would be fine if the rest of the pronunciation was "heightened RP" (i.e. Noel Coward-type English), but these random rogue vowel sounds amongst otherwise standard RP really irritate.

Another annoying pronunication issue amongst broadcasters in particular: the use of "-in" as the ending of a word, instead of "-ing" when this is not part of their native dialect - i.e. the rest of their pronunciation is standard RP. Do they think it makes them sound relaxed and cool ?

- jeanie


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 08:59 AM

Can I be frank? (meaning they can justify how rude they are going to be).


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 08:32 AM

Surplus prepositions (if anybody needs to know what a preposition is, PM me and I'll explain without telling anybody) as in "signed off on". What's wrong with "signed"?

Nigel, I am of the opinion that anybody who is being interviewed should be cut off after ten "y'know" (or "y'knows?") in the interview, or possibly after five in the one sentence.

I have counted up to ten in one long, rambling sentence, Usually they seem to be preceded by "um". It appears to be a disease amongst those of the football persuasions, especially soccer and rugby league.

Yes, I'm a snob.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,Nigel
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 08:02 AM

"You know" and "know what I mean" make me cringe. If I know, why tell me, and if I don't know what you mean then I'll tell you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 06:24 AM

'ahead of' meaning 'before'!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: s&r
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 06:08 AM

And 'he gave it to John and I'

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: s&r
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 05:59 AM

Dissect and cervical with long 'i'sounds. Questionnaire and quarter with no 'w' sound (eg courter). Don't like the affectation of an otel, but like even less an hotel with the'h' aspirated.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 05:23 AM

Whether it is X Factor, or an obesity fitness programme or anything people are lumped together to train and go through their paces 'boot camp' I hate that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 04:09 AM

nucular

Suggestions for use of this term welcome - it looks like a good word in its own right, but what does it mean?

Nuclear I understand already, thank you (when pronounced correctly)

Paws


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Darowyn
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 03:52 AM

"Attendees"!
Someone who attends an event is an attender.
Someone who is 'attended to' is an attendee.
So at a gig the audience are the attenders, and the artists are the attendees.
The "..er" suffix is active. The "...ee" suffix is passive.
A referee is someone who is referred to. A referrer is someone who refers.
I saw a notice on a bus recently. It said "Seating capacity 56. Standees 12"
Standees must be people who have been stood up. How sad for them!
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Slag
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 11:44 PM

"The END of the DAY"! How about "after all is said and done" or "The bottom line is" or "To sum up" or " the net effect is" or "with the results being" or and the conclusion is" or "in the final analysis" or just about anything except "at the end of the day" Please!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 09:39 PM

I agree my peeve doesn't make much sense, but I'm peeved by people who introduce themselves by simply walking up to another person and saying their own name. As in:

"Leeneia? Jonathan Bimblethwaite."

Apparently I am so unimportant that it's too much effort to say, "Hello, I'm Jonathan Bimblethwaite and..."

When someone does that, I stare at them and say "What about him?"

When I worked at the fabric store, pushy women would sometimes barge into somebody else's transaction with "Scissors?" or "Velcro?"

I didn't let them get away with it. The person I was helping deserved my full concentration.
=============
This isn't a peeve, but it gave us a good laugh. A novel involving concert violinists said that when premier violinist So-and-so performed, "there wasn't a dry seat in the house."

Obviously got 'wasn't a dry eye' mixed up with 'wasn't an empty seat.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 09:37 PM

How could I have forgotten?

"try and".

In the vast preponderance of circumstances "try to" is correct.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:41 PM

"a$$hat" or "asshat" is a term I've heard used. An "ass" is a donkey,
so a donkey hat doesn't make sense to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:27 PM

"There seems to be a belief among tv football commentators and commenters that "Goal" is an indelicate word in some wa"

... because they associate it with the 'goal' spelling of 'jail'.... and don't want to upset the supporters?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:57 PM

"Go figure" in my neck of the woods usually means "Who would have thought it?"

We've always referred to it as the NYTimes and the Times of London as just the Times.

I can still hear Mrs. Worcester, my old English/Latin teacher, scolding any of us who used "like" when we meant "such as." It's a lost cause, it's even been deemed "acceptable," but it still bugs me, greatly! The best example of incorrect usage she used with us was the old "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should!" My, how times have changed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Penny S.
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:40 PM

"Comprises of".

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Penny S.
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:35 PM

"Fascia" instead of "facia". Lost cause already. It's a bundle of things, such as ligaments in the foot, not a facing board.

And there's something else, but fortunately I have forgotten it.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM

"Here, here!" instead of "Hear, hear!"
"It's a mute point" instead of "moot point"

I think the reason "Here, here!", "mute point", "peaked", "baited breath" and "forward" bug me so much is that by using homonyms, people are losing the original sense(s) of the word(s), along with a certain richness of expression (and even understanding) which accompany the "proper" spelling(s), and I regret that loss -- even while knowing it's inevitable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:15 PM

There seems to be a belief among tv football commentators and commenters that "Goal" is an indelicate word in some way, and the euphemism "It's in the back of the net" is somehow more seemly. I don't think I have ever heard the word "Goal" on Alan Hanson's lips, for example.

Now, why do I find this so profoundly irritating?

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:13 PM

in order to,....why not just to?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 12:48 PM

I think it was GUEST,Bert who asked us:

Second of all

Surely it should be 'second of all but one' seeing as 'first of all' has already dealt with the first one?


"Of them all, the first is" blah-blah = "First of all"

"Of them all, the second is" whatever = "Second of all"

So "second of all" is perfectly logical, Bert.   I wouldn't use it myself, because the unadorned "second" is quite sufficient in that context and "second of all" is kind of cumbersome, but it's not logically or grammatically wrong.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 12:02 PM

>But is there a preferable way to disambiguate, that is both uncomplicated and concise for more general use? <

CS ~ I think 'The [London] Times', or '"The Times" of London' would both be acceptable.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 10:11 AM

Expressions such as `Are you joking me?`


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 10:08 AM

"The American usage [following on from a post above] 'The London Times'. There is no such newspaper. It is called simply 'The Times'."

That's true MtheGM, and I understand that both are proper names so the insertion of a place name (as in London) isn't grammatical, but for US readers the default cultural assumption would (probably?) naturally be that if someone refers to 'The Times' they will be using shorthand for "The NY Times"?

Personally I'm inclined to think "The London Times" is sloppy journalism because you'd never get that kind of fudge used as a reference in academic literature. But is there a preferable way to disambiguate, that is both uncomplicated and concise for more general use?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 10:00 AM

I once bought a guidebook to the northwest United States (principally Washington and Oregon) that consistently and repeatedly referred to the "Williamette River." The correct spelling is Willamette.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 09:27 AM

And haitch with an haitch his has hold has the 'ills.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:47 AM

The American usage [following on from a post above] 'The London Times'. There is no such newspaper. It is called simply 'The Times'. A friend from US once tried to defend this, as necessary to distinguish from 'The New York Times', &c; but climbed down and admitted I was right when I pointed out that the masthead of 'The New York Times' reads 'The New York Times'; while the masthead of 'The Times' simply reads 'The Times'.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 05:51 AM

"Didn't used to" ~ horribly widespread ~ should of course be "Didn't use to": think about it. But this one a losing battle, I fear.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 05:37 AM

It's been going on a long time, and I doubt if it will stop in our species' lifetime. A hundred years ago, Disgusted of Tonbridge Wells might have written to "The Times"(*):

The word "terrific" used to mean "inspiring terror," but currently it usually means "very good."

Where did the phrase "Hello" come from, and what will make it go away?

The word is "omnibus," NOT "bus." Are three syllables really so much more difficult to utter than one? It is permissible if you want to use it informally, or to show you are "up to date". But to use it in the newspapers, as in "to catch the bus..." makes me wonder who is in charge.


Note that I've partially corrected a few solecisms ("use to", a certain laxness of punctuation), and excised contractions like "isn't" that would not have been printed in the better newspapers, but wouldn't be blinked at today.

(*) That's how he would have put it then. No one with any education wrote to the Times.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 05:19 AM

"Should of" as the expansion of "should've", a contraction of "should have". Same for could/would


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 04:53 AM

"tiny little" and pronouncing 'aitch' with an h.
Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 04:01 AM

The last line is repeated ( singers)

- if so - its not the last line.

A right and left hand star - callers call. Try putting both hands in!

This door is alarmed ( poor door )

Turn into a bowl ( cooks ). How?
FloraG


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 04:01 AM

People who say 'two things, a) blah de blah and secondly....' It's A and B or First and Second!!!

Less instead of Fewer gets me every time and I shout at the TV when an advert that uses it is shown.

'Compares to' instead of' compares with'.

I can accept that we are ruled by Microsoft's version of spelling (even when the thing is set to English rather than American English) but am driven completely spare by books and publications that have both UK and US spellings used with gay abandon, often ON THE SAME PAGE! I dearly wish to go through certain books with a red pen, correcting every mistake and send it back to the author with the exhortation to employ a proofreader or at least a bloody spell checker! The worst offender was a 'vanity printing' tome that professed to be 'one of the best guides' to its subject matter... Opened at random, I gave up counting after the spelling mistakes, grammatical and typesetting errors got to 2 dozen on one double page. Obviously the subject matter was not 'how to write correct English'.

Another pet peeve is the continued publication of historical "facts" that have been proven to be otherwise. The accusations of murder levied against Richard III is a prime example. The account of these murders were written on the orders of the man who had just usurped Richard and wanted to dispose of any potential threats. Tudor 'historians' state that Richard III had his 2 nephews murdered in the Tower of London when in fact, there is no contemporary evidence that this happened. When the Tudor dynasty was exhausted, a retraction was broadcast and Richard exhonorated. However, if you open any school history book published in the last 200 years, you'll see that Richard murdered the Princes in the Tower and that is it.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:30 AM

Go figure, which is usually written as ' go figger, ' it really means " If you don't know that, I think you are stupid "

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 02:50 AM

Uncle DaveO: for some reason you posted your 'epicenter' comment on the Emma Thompson thread ~~ I wondered at the time if you had meant it for this one, or were making some recondite point about luvviedom!

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:55 AM

People who use 'gibberish-logic' ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,Bert
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:49 AM

Second of all

Surely it should be 'second of all but one' seeing as 'first of all' has already dealt with the first one?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 11:42 PM

I've been having a little to-do with a newperson at the station where my Rog is chief engineer. They posted a story with the headline approximately as follows:

"Humane Society Looking to Get New Diggs"

Found out said reporter teaches at the local college and readily admitted to mistakes, which were corrected. We exchanged a couple of more comments in which she agreed using such slang as "diggs" should be guarded against, as she tells her students, but that sometimes it is "just fun."

The new headline reads as follows:

"Lots of tail wagging over proposed Roice-Hurst move"

A definite improvement, though I suppose it would be better if "tail" were plural.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 11:01 PM

Oops! How could I forget "copywrite" (for "copyright") "copywright" and even "copywritten"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 10:12 PM

People who don't know the difference between palette, palate, and pallet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 09:33 PM

Misuse of quotation marks and apostrophes. Also confusing compose and comprise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 09:01 PM

Right here, in our very own, Mudcat, a lot of posters, use way too many, commas, without any, justification or sense. Makes it, hard to, understand. Leaving ALL commas, out, would make it, more readable!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 07:28 PM

I'd say the repetition of the word "is" in sentences like, "The trouble is, is that nobody listens."

Once you notice it, you keep hearing it everywhere (in the US).

I have only heard it in speech, probably by people who don't even realize they're saying it. I have never seen it in print.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 06:15 PM

I would have sworn that I posted the following earlier in this thread:

"Epicenter" as in a usage like "Hollywood is the epicenter of the film industry in the U.S."

Oh, so the film industry in the U.S. is way down underground, and Hollywood is located on the surface above it?   Awww, c'mon!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 05:52 PM

Oh - how could I have overlooked "Off of"?


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