BS: Language Pet Peeves

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 06:49 AM

"Where have you been?"

"I've just been upstairs dropping the shopping. I'd give it twenty minutes if I were you..."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 06:42 AM

"I'll be five minutes - I just have to go and crimp off a length..."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 06:22 AM

"Going to the little boys' room"
or,
"Going for a pony!"

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 05:49 PM

Pee more twee than wee? Heheh. Gee...

Here in Britlandia, "Begod, I just have to nip out for a wee..." is now in common parlance, even among the hunkiest of alpha males, ladies too. I like that. One day, we'll all be able to say "Hey, I just need to nip out to take a shit/dump/Tom tit/Eartha Kitt", male or female, without anyone raising an eyebrow. I look forward...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 05:38 PM

I once emailed the great flute player, Harry Bradley, to ask him what he'd thought of a particular book on traditional Irish music. He replied that the best use he could find for it was to drill a hole in the top left corner and suspend it from string in his lavatorium...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 05:05 PM

Where did that 'n' come from? Maybe you HAVE to be a poet.

When I was a child we went to the lavatory, and what we did there was 'spend a penny'. It never occurred to me that this was odd - it would only cost a penny if you were to use a 'public convenience'.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 04:46 PM

Maybe you nave to be a poet ...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 04:36 PM

Wait - "pee" is more "twee" than "wee"? Well, learn sumpm every day ....

Reminds me, though. One time, late at night, I was in the company of the poet Al Purdy, who, I daresay, prided himself in being salt of the earth. The others in our party were a young-ish, upper-crust couple, connected with some publishing house. At one point, the woman said, "Where's Al?", and the guy said, "He's peeing on a tree". Al's voice boomed indignantly out of the dark: "I'm not 'peeing' - I'm pissing!"

Maybe you have to be Canadian to get it; I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 03:52 PM

Twee would be 'little boys' room' or 'little girls' room'.

A female equivalent of 'I'm going to see a man about a dog' would be 'I'm going to powder my nose'. Do people powder their noses any more? It makes me think of Barbara Cartland.

'Bog' and 'dump' are too blokey.

'Loo' seems to me to be fairly neutral.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 03:39 PM

Loo is way too twee. As are poo and pee, now seen, annoyingly, on every medical website. Give me bog, dump and wee any time.. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 02:15 PM

My father's generation used to say they were 'going to see a man about a dog'.

Most people I know these days call it 'the loo'.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 01:58 PM

Going for a lash

Off to point Percy at the porcelain

Off to drain the spuds

Off to shake hands with the unemployed

Off to shake hands with the wife's best friend


You can't beat a good euphemism, mate...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 01:46 PM

Guilty. We say those things too.

Well, some of us.

When I was in England, I found use of the phrase "go to the toilet" a little embarrassing.

Here, a "toilet" is specifically the commode, rarely the little room.

It's often heard in the phrase "on the toilet."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 10:34 AM

I used to be very confused by talk of bathrooms in trains or aircraft, until I realised what was meant.
And as for people taking their dog out so that it can 'go to the bathroom' ...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 10:10 AM

Most Brits will use a word other than lavatory...

"Rest room" seems a bit over-polite. Your visit there might be anything but restful...

And tell me about "bathrooms" that don't have a bath...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 10:01 AM

In the U.S. we say "LAvatohry" and "LAbratohry"

But since we don't usually say "lavatory" ("rest room" is preferred) *or* "laboratory" ("lab" is preferred) the chance for genuine mishearing is about nil.

Context is a big clue.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 09:57 AM

I think you'll find that the American "aluminum" has the greater claim to be the "correct" spelling. However, if it's wot millions say...

Another weird one is licorice/ liquorice, (or, up north, liquorish ("lickerish!"). I suspect that the spelling more popular in the US, licorice" is "more correct" if the etymology is consulted, but in the UK it's more likely to be rendered "liquorice." The vulgar-sounding "liquorish/lickerish" actually goes back hundreds of years. If enough people use them, they're all "correct," though some raise hackles more than others. It pays to be not too imperialistic when claiming correctness in a spelling...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 08:01 AM

Good point. (But I would avoid 'lABorat'ry' as it can too easily be misheard, and mistaken for 'lavatory'.)

And then there are 'aLUminum' and 'aluMINium', where even the spelling changes.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 07:35 AM

Like "laBORatry"?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 06:46 AM

Another pronunciation that annoys me is 'pasTORal'. It sounds really awkward, and 'PAStoral' sounds so much more peaceful.

But sometimes the newer versions can be more expressive - 'haRASSment' sounds much more aggressive than 'HARassment'.

And such controversies are not new. Years ago, my mother used to get very annoyed when she heard someone say 'CONtroversy' instead of 'conTROVersy'.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 03:14 AM

If 'effICacy' catches on everywhere, will 'diffICulty' be next?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 Feb 21 - 11:55 PM

Efficacy: Both the OED and the AHD give only the first-syllable stress, which is what comes natural to me. The analogy with -ciency words seems to me a poor one. However, I do not blame people for trying their luck with efFIcacy; the orthodox pronunciation leads to three unstressed syllables in a row, which English usually avoids.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 08 Feb 21 - 02:06 PM

I rather think they base their pronunciation on whatever they have heard most recently (which will probably not be 'Lily the Pink').

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Feb 21 - 12:43 PM

I bet people base their pronunciation of efficacy on similar words such as proficiency and effiency and deficiency, all of which have the accent on the FI.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 21 - 11:16 AM

Jos:
I think 'efficacy' is probably not a common word in peoples vocabularies.
The accent on "eff" may be a hold-over from Scaffold and "Lily the Pink". "Most efficacious in ev'ry case"

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Feb 21 - 12:08 PM

Freudian slip: when you mean to say one thing and accidentally say a mother.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 21 - 11:00 AM

On yesterday's Radio 4 one o'clock news, the newsreader just managed to rescue herself from calling Jeremy Hunt "Jeremy C***", sounding like "Jeremy Ker-Hunt..."

(I don't like using asterisks like that, but I decided that this thread is a family show, folks).

It's been a common error, even having investigated by psychologists who decided that it's not a Freudian slip. To some of us, it has seemed oddly appropriate...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 07 Feb 21 - 10:07 AM

The pronunciation of "efficacy" is changing. Until recently I had only ever heard "EFFicacy". Recently I have heard people being interviewed whose first language was clearly not English, who talked about a vaccine's "effICKacy".
Yesterday I heard the change taking place on air, as someone with a southern English accent who was being interviewed on Radio 4 began to say "EFFic...", then hesitated, started again, and this time said "effICKacy".

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 02:08 PM

Back to peeves.

I saw a YouTube video where a major network referred to the "unrest" at the Capitol. I posted "Five people are dead, including one trampled to death, one shot and one brained with fire extinguisher," and you call that UNREST?

Unrest is when people are marching and shouting.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 02:03 PM

I used to have dreams like that, but in my case the bridge collapsed beneath me. Then one night the bridge was collapsing, and I thought, "I'll be all right. I can swim." After that, I never had another nightmare about a bridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 12:11 PM

My problem, Leeneia, is that it leaves me feeling very insecure, as if I was driving across Tower Bridge just as it opened to allow a ship to pass through, and I am left hanging in the air ... with no way of getting to the other side.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 11:57 AM

I wouldn't use the "just because" construction if writing a book, but I believe it's all right for everyday use. The ""just because" part is a noun clause which functions as the subject of the sentence.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 08:01 PM

Mwah, Jos and Steve Shaw!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 05:26 PM

Well me to Jos, and I dont let my author's get away with it neither...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 01:58 PM

Well, me too, and I don't let my authors get away with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 01:56 PM

Careful, Jos. He's an established proofreader... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 01:31 PM

One of my pet peeves – "an established source of aggravation" that I come across almost every day – is:

"Just because ... doesn't mean ..."
instead of
"Just because ... it doesn't mean ...", or "Just because ... that doesn't mean ...".

[Sorry, Mrrzy]

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: BobL
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 03:29 AM

"We did everything we could" said Boris. Unfortunately, true.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 08:46 PM

Yes we have: we have a worse death rate than you.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 06:40 PM

Steve, y'all got nothin on us!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 03:38 PM

The pandemic is not what has resulted in one of the worst death rates. The sheer incompetence of our government has done that. Wrong thread, etc., but just sayin'...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM

The pandemic has resulted, in the UK, in one of the worst death rates?

Just because something is new to me does not mean it can't be one of my pets, or do I have to be peeved over a period of time for it to become a pet?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 12:09 PM

I blame the parents.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 11:47 AM

I've got one.

Don't you just hate it when people misuse "pet peeve"? Don't they know that words have meanings?

A "pet peeve" is an established source of aggravation that one perversely enjoys complaining about, but posters here often use it to mean "a usage I object to that I just noticed recently."

I blame the schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 10:02 AM

You can't say "The pandemic in the UK has resulted in one of the world's worst death rates."
Why can't you say that?
The 'pandemic' relates to a global event, and 'in the UK' has resulted in one of the world's worst death rates.
It may not be the clearest of sentences, but it isn't necessarily misleading.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 08:15 AM

Several terms have come into vogue in the last few months which are chucked around with loose abandon.

"Pandemic": it's a pandemic if you are talking about the global situation. It's an epidemic if you're talking about the situation just in your own country: "The coronavirus epidemic in the UK is part of the global pandemic." You can't say "The pandemic in the UK has resulted in one of the world's worst death rates." But people do!

"Lockdown": an irritating word which doesn't convey anything about the restrictions in force.

"Social distancing": I have no idea why we need "social" in there...

"Jab": not descriptive of what the nurse or doc does at all.

"Self-isolating": just a really stupid expression.

"Covid": an unclever word used to make you sound clever. When I challenged someone who kept referring to "covid" he told me that "coronavirus" is too vague because there are lots of coronaviruses. I had to tell him that the ugly, confected word "covid" is merely short for "COronaVIrus Disease." There's nothing wrong with calling the current disease "coronavirus." It's a real word and everybody knows what it refers to in the current context. Likewise, "Covid-19." I asked my family in a Zoom last night what they thought it meant. Not one of them knew that the "19" stood for the year 2019. Just call the bloody thing coronavirus! And don't get me started on ridiculous constructions such as "pre-covid" and " post-covid"...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 07:38 AM

It's just that damned Second Amendment again...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 07:33 AM

Remember the "Christian militias" in Lebanon and the "Baath Party militias" in Iraq?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 07:29 AM

Merriam-Webster definition number 3:

"a private group of armed individuals that operates as a paramilitary force and is typically motivated by a political or religious ideology"

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 06:28 PM

But your constitution permits them, according to your gun lobby.