BS: Language Pet Peeves

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 21 - 04:03 PM

Was it in a different thread? I'm pretty sure it was me!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 21 - 04:23 PM

Got it. It was in the Brexit and other UK topics thread on 14 March. I hereby claim ownership of this ignominy!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 21 Mar 21 - 10:30 AM

Whenever I hear "These kind of ..." I feel most uncomfortable.
It has to be either "These kinds of ..." or "This kind of ...".

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 06:51 AM

This morning I heard an expression that's been around for some years but I hadn't heard recently:
He/she "turned round and said ...".
This is usually used in recounting a conversation, rather than the person who "turned round" having previously had their back turned.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 11:29 AM

That sounds like southern American idiom ... don't know if it is, it just sounds like the kind of turn of phrase, so to speak, that would be favoured in the South.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 01:36 PM

He/she "turned round and said ...".

             - - - - - - : : - - - - - - -

That sounds like southern American idiom


It's an expression that I am familiar with here in the UK. In fact, it's so run-of-the-mill that I wouldn't know whether I have heard it recently or not.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 07:22 PM

Freddy was a fine young man, a fine young man was he
He built himself a little house up in an apple tree.
One day when he was in his house up in the apple tree
The limb his house was on did break and to the ground fell he.
Now Freddy didn't cry at all, just turned around and said
I've lost my taste for apples, I'll take a peach instead.

Ed McCurdy taught me that.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 06:06 AM

In that instance, Freddie might have turned round. It could equally be an example of the use that often sounds so ridiculous - but something was needed there to make the line the right length.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 06:09 AM

PS: "He just stood up an said" would be more likely alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 06:20 AM

Jos, you seem, to my mind, to be putting too much thought into this. It's just an expression, not meant to be taken literally.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 07:14 AM

But this thread is about "Language peeves" - and it peeves me, so I'm allowed to tell you about it.
If you don't mind it, that's just fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 07:30 AM

In that case, should I get peeved when people say that they are going to put the kettle on to boil. I can't even get mine to melt.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 07:45 AM

Jos, I am with you. If it peeves, this is the thread for you. If it doesn't peeve someone else that is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 07:53 AM

I tend to be more amused than peeved by the absurdities that people come out with.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 08:24 AM

It may be amusing the first time, maybe the second. When you hear it or read it over and over again it can be very irritating.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 08:42 AM

More and more, recently ,I have noticed in the UK, that so many people start a sentence with 'So' or 'Well basically'. for example this happens often on TV quiz programmes when contestants are asked 'What do you do'? to find out their employment they reply 'So..... I am a whatever' or 'Well basically, I am a whatever. This seems to me to be a total waste of words where a concise answer will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 09:35 AM

Jos, Mrrzy
What if someone else's pet peeve gives rise to a peeve of my own? I am peeved to be told that a perfectly good and useful word, such as "albeit", makes me sound pompous and I reserve the right to make an objection. My peeve is as good as anyone else's.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 10:22 AM

It's not perfectly good if there are perfectly good and time-honoured unpretentious alternatives, Doug. "Albeit" has become a real fad in recent decades (it almost completely died out in Victorian times). I don't have many REAL peeves, but that one, along with "prior to", "going forward" and "on a daily basis", do get my goat, especially when I see them in print. I don't mind "so...", which is generally used to allow the speaker an extra nanosecond to prepare mentally what they're going to say. It's not so different to "well..." or "eh bien..." really, and all are better than "er...". We should also cut each other a fair amount of slack when it comes to the spoken word created on the hoof, but when you type or write something you have all the time in the world, relatively speaking, to review it and use your imagination to come up with a more elegant and unpretentious (and plain - there's nothing wrong with plain...) way of putting it. Bad writing often involves sticking blindly to your first idea as though it was your cherished baby.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: mayomick
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 01:11 PM

"perfect" as said by dentists and opticians after asking your details. The optician asked me today , what's your date of birth , Michael?
23rd of the second fifty two.
Perfect
I got the same from the dentist two weeks ago.I'm going to ask you to rinse again, is that ok?
yes
Perfect

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 02:50 PM

Yep, there's a lot of that perfection around. I've had it from the person taking my blood for a blood test and from my back surgeon. Another one coming from this ilk of otherwise admirable people is "could you just roll your sleeve up for me?" "Just keep your arm still for me..." etc. And such personages here in Cornwall are rapidly picking up the habit of calling me "my lovely." You'd realise how inappropriate this is if you could only catch a glimpse of me...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 03:31 PM

I am with you too, Doug Chadwick! But is it the *language* that is peeving you, or their opinion of it? If their opinion, that is a separate thing, no?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 09:44 PM

'Would you like some more coffee?'

'Sure.'

'Awesome!'

A common bit of dialogue in these parts ....

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Mar 21 - 09:58 AM

Would "splendid" be any better?

Heh.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 21 - 10:56 AM

Or in Oz ad nauseam, "no worries!"

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 28 Mar 21 - 11:59 AM

"Splendid"? Naw - a simple "Okay" would suffice - or a "Here ya go" - or a snort - or even a sigh, with or without an eye-roll .....

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Mar 21 - 06:05 PM

Most people seem to think that every noun phrase starting with "back" is a compound noun: backdoor, backseat, backyard. These should be "back door" etc. Nobody writes "frontdoor". Probably the mistake results from the existence of many true compounds with "back": backfire, backlash, etc. Notice the difference in stress on saying those out loud.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 21 - 06:46 PM

Back passage... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 02:12 AM

Regarding meaning and stress, the way I would say these words is:

backFIRE (a verb)
BACKlash (a noun)

BACK door (not the front door)
back DOOR (not the back window)

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 02:59 AM

My dictionary (Chambers) gives gives "backdoor" as an adjective meanin "Unworthily secret" or "Clandestine".

I usually watch Pointless at tea time and they often have a round where contestants have to think of a single word meeting a certain condition (eg, ending in ious). I am often uncertain (with my own ideas as well as answers by contestants) as to what is one word, what is two words and what is hyphenated. I've also been proved wrong a few times when I've felt sure an answer is/isn't a single word.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 12:45 PM

I'm reminded of the young woman who was so roundly mocked on the internet a year ago or so, for answering the game-show question, "What is Popeye's favourite food?", as "Fried chicken" - being of the generation she was, she was thinking of a popular fast-food chain rather than the cartoon character it's named after. The question was ambiguous, and her answer reasonable, so she should have been awarded the point(s) and spared the ridicule - but they didn't ask for my judgement ... !

Subject: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 06:30 AM

UK and USA have often been described as two great nationals divided by one language.

There are a number examples where the same word is used in UK and US, but in a different way. One that grates on me is the word ALREADY, where in UK it refers to something that has happened and in US to something that someone wants to happen.

For example:

UK: Johnny has already finished his dinner.
US: Johnny, will you hurry up and finish your dinner already.

This is clearly contradictory as the word refers to both something that has happened, and something that hasn't happened.

I am sure a linguist can find the point where the meaning of the word diverged, and which defininiation came first.

Do any other annoying (or even wonderful) differences spring to Mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Jos
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 06:47 AM

Well, 'defininiation' is a rather lovely word I have never come across before ...

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 07:03 AM

It is defined as a typo

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 07:19 AM

He's a regular guy = US compliment, UK insult [capital G guy]

Quite good = very good US, not very good UK [we had a British biss who wondered why managers kept insulting their own staff]

Interestingly if you are Deaf then referring to someone as "very hard of hearing" means describing them as having better hearing than someone who is only a little hard of hearing...

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 07:21 AM

I am expecting the mudelves to add this conversation to the language peeves thread...

---

Good call, Mrrzy! ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 07:45 AM

I cannot recall hearing "he's a regular guy" ever being used in the UK. I don't think anyone here would imagine it as an insult.

I am curious as to why Mrrzy thinks it's an insult here.

The use of "quite good" in my experience means exactly that, it is quite good, not too bad, acceptable.

Again I wonder why Mrrzy thinks otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 08:36 AM

”I cannot recall hearing "he's a regular guy" ever being used in the UK. I don't think anyone here would imagine it as an insult.”

Me neither, Raggy. It’s simply not a part of the UK lexicon.

The one that grates with me is, “I couldn’t care less” (UK) v. “I could care less” (US). The US version clearly doesn’t mean what they think it means!

And the strangest expression I’ve heard from an American in recent times was ‘deplane’, meaning to disembark from an aircraft.

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 08:36 AM

I've not heard "regular guy" in the UK either.

I think "quite good" can vary depending on context and tone of voice. "I think I did badly here"/ "no, what you did was quite good" would be complimentary and encouraging".

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 08:41 AM

SPB I respect you and your posts, but to me this OP comes off as more pique than pick.

There is no difficulty in understanding the use of the word 'already' in your OP. It may have some immigrant history in the way other languages express when their users switch to English. It may be related to the German 'waiting for the verb' phenomenon.

Whereas, in my experience we have this.

I don't know if UK or Canada or the many English speaking parts of the world have figured out a way to fix this, but it is my constant reminder to not be too proud of my wonderful English language.

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: G-Force
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 09:03 AM

In the UK, 'he's a regular guy' means he shits every day.

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 09:06 AM

I very seldom have heard 'already' used as a future tense in the U.S. It seems more like a term used by some ethnic group(s) Jewish use? If someone did use to to me, I'd have no problem understanding....but....


It would be far more common to hear "He has already finished...X"

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Charmion
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 10:15 AM

Taking off editor hat and calmly leaving to do something else ...

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 10:44 AM

Nipping out to roll a fag always causes problems...

Subject: RE: BS: Annoying Language Differences
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 10:47 AM

US: Johnny, will you hurry up and finish your dinner already.

It means the same thing, it's an ironic use of the word, wishing the meal was finished. Already.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 10:56 AM

Anyone know how far back we need to go to find the OPs for the 'regular guy' and 'already' contentions?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 12:24 PM

Now that Amazon Prime has put out a new series about Leonardo, here we go again with the "da Vinci" nonsense. It's in the headline of the news item about it on the BBC website and it's repeated throughout the article. "Da Vinci" is not his surname. It refers only to the place he comes from. Calling him "da Vinci" is as daft as calling Henry VIII "the Eighth" or Eric "the Red." Leonardo will do fine...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 12:39 PM

A regular Guy, capital G, (I *did* specify) means -or meant, in my youth and folly- poorly dressed, hair like straw, and otherwise unpresentable-looking. When did that go away?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 01:41 PM

Hmm ... I always heard 'regular guy' as meaning somebody unremarkable, but dependable, trustworthy, unpretentious, and 'one of the boys'.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 02:56 PM

... poorly dressed, hair like straw, and otherwise unpresentable-looking.

Boris the regular Guy?


DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Apr 21 - 05:22 PM

Guy Fawkes effigy-looking, quoi.