BS: Language Pet Peeves

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: saulgoldie
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:24 PM

Well, for better or for worse (or worser) language is dynamic. Sometimes the new usages can be interesting and enriching. Others, they just represent devolution. We all have our favorites on either side.

A couple of my own "faves" are--
Raising one's pitch toward the end of a statement as if it is were question.
Inserting a letter "h" where it does not belong (mentioned earlier).
Dropping a "d" or a "t" Where it DOES belong.
These two seem to be some sort of affectation more prevalent among young women.
Extraneous or missing apostrophes, check.
Extraneous or missing commas, check.

Now, this is my YUGE big cahuna of all word misuses. It is YUGE not because it sounds stupid/lazy/whatever. But because Its misuse f-u-n-d-a-m-e-n-t-a-l-l-y changes the meaning. That is the use of "can't." Look, if you "can't" do something, it is something that you are INCAPABLE of doing. You do not have the physical strength or coordination to do whatever it is. It does NOT mean that you do not have PERMISSION.

If you are physically CAPABLE of doing something but there are consequences that you do not like, then you must acknowledge that you CHOOSE to not do it, rather than that you "can't" do it. People say "can't" so they can avoid taking responsibility for the CHOICE that they make to avoid the consequences.

This misuse is an example of devolution. This misuse does not clarify anything, and does not provide some new and novel way of illuminating a point.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 19 - 04:04 PM

You could be Yorkshire, though, Doug. It's not proper north tha knows...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 May 19 - 05:08 PM

No, never Yorkshire but I have moved across the country from the Mersey to the Humber, via Manchester.

On reflection, my grandson, who was brought up in South Yorkshire, calls my wife "Granneh" and would probably say "moneh". I've never stopped to think about it - it's just the way he talks.

There was one TV advert, for gas central heating I think, that used the Carol King song "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" which opened with the line "Tonight you're mine completeleh" ARRRRG!

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 May 19 - 06:28 PM

Jos... Exactly.

People are hanged. Pictures are hung.

In that vein (sorry) the widow, not the wife, files for death benefits or whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bill D
Date: 23 May 19 - 07:57 PM

"vocal fry"

I was aware of it before I ever heard it explained. People make excuses for it and justify it in various ways, but it really wears on me.

As to usage: Certain military usages..like using 'contingency' when they mean 'contingent'... "To put down the uprising, we sent in a contingency of peace keepers." arrrgghh...

And media people who will NOT learn how celebrities pronounce their names.. It's Michael COHEN.. not 'Cone' or 'Cohn'. They are studying how to say 'Buttigieg', but can't say Cohen?

Also, media people who refuse to pronounce, as closely as possible, the names of foreign cities & countries. Some are very difficult, but Nicaragua has 4 syllables, not 5. The 'u' and 'a' are not separate syllables. Simply stating "that's how we've always said it." is not much of a defense. Yes, I'm aware my opinion is not likely to alter anyone's habits.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 May 19 - 09:52 PM

Well, when I am speaking English I pronounce things, like foreign things, in English. When I speak French it's PaREE, in English PAriss.
People's names are another thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 May 19 - 09:57 PM

Also pronouncing cache like cachet, as in, there was a cachet of arms. No, there wasn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bill D
Date: 23 May 19 - 10:25 PM

No.. a cachet of arms would mean something like "my bomb is bigger than your bomb"...not something we want to test..

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 May 19 - 10:42 PM

Meself, I'll stick with "suspect." After all, the crime itself has not been proved until the trial. So, it is a "suspected" or "alleged" crime until the court has proved it.
But I'll still respect you in the morning....

-Joe-

And yes, I did read what you wrote. I just disagreed.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 24 May 19 - 01:09 AM

Do you really not see a significant difference between:

1) The suspect killed Bill Jones. The suspect is John Smith.

and

2) The assailant killed Bill Jones. The suspect is John Smith.

?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 19 - 01:57 AM

Hi, Meself - I will agree that assailant is a better term, but I think that "suspect" works reasonably well.
I'm a member of the "whatever works as long as it doesn't sound stupid" school. "Suspect" is common usage, and it doesn't sound particularly stupid. I'm not bound to pedantry, but I have to admit that your choice of the word "assailant" is damn good.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 19 - 02:36 AM

media people who will NOT learn how celebrities pronounce their names

Not always as easy as it seems. My daughter was at school with Gemma Arterton, who pronounced her name A - er - t'n at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 19 - 03:14 AM

"She married her husband in 2017." Considering how expensive weddings are, what a waste of money doing it twice...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 May 19 - 03:41 AM

"She married her husband in 2017."

Unless she was a vicar, registrar or other such appointed official, she got married to someone in 2017.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 24 May 19 - 07:40 AM

Doug, doesn't that make a nonsense of the well known question:

"Will you marry me?"

Somehow, "Will you get married to me?" doesn't have that special something ...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 19 - 07:59 AM

"Romeo, Romeo, where art thou Romeo?"

"Money is the root of all evil."

"Theirs but to do or die!"

"Beam me up, Scotty!"

"Elementary, my dear Watson."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 19 - 08:10 AM

Quoting Shakespeare can be tricky:

"Uncle me no uncle" -- Richard II, Act 2 Scene 3.

I an not quite sure what part of speech that first 'uncle' is...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 19 - 08:55 AM

"Crisis? What crisis?"

"Let them eat cake."

"Not tonight, Josephine."

"It's life, Jim, but not as we know it."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 May 19 - 09:22 AM

Not as we know it, not as we know it. Great video, that.

I saw a headline (clickbait) that said Groom cries as bride reveals love for his spouse. What? Bigamy?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 May 19 - 09:31 AM

"Romeo, Romeo, where art thou Romeo?"

I'm not picking on you, Steve. It's just by chance that you are the one I keep disagreeing with - nothing personal - but the quote is:-
"Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?"

Wherefore, in this case, means "why". Why did you have to be a Montague?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 19 - 09:46 AM

Er, I did know that, Doug. Are you sure you're getting me drift?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 May 19 - 09:49 AM

Doug, doesn't that make a nonsense of the well known question:

"Will you marry me?"

Somehow, "Will you get married to me?" doesn't have that special something ...

Of course, in every day usage, only a pedant would make the difference between the passive form of being married and the active form of officiating at the ceremony. However, we are in a thread called "Language Pet Peeves" where the distinction is being made between the status of the groom before and after the nuptials.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 May 19 - 09:51 AM

OK Steve! I'm easily confused.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Charmion
Date: 24 May 19 - 10:04 AM

Tautologies.

Today's irritant: "fellow classmates".

Aaaaargh!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 May 19 - 10:35 AM

Ooh yeah!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 19 - 06:27 PM

Me too, Doug. I'm thinking of getting meself analysed some time in the next thirty or forty years... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 May 19 - 07:32 PM

"Step foot". With apologies to the American contingent here, stupid Americanism!! Because it has been creeping into British English these last several years, I believe, from American English.

Step doesn't work like that. You can step up, step out, step back, step on; you step in a direction. You can take a step, and a foot is also a measure of length. But you don't "step inch / metre / whatever". You can set foot; you are putting your foot somewhere (in it, possibly...). But you don't "step foot". Stupid, meaningless, idiotic misuse of the English language, whether it's the American or British version!!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bill D
Date: 24 May 19 - 07:56 PM

Interesting... I've been an adult American for 60 years, and I have never heard "step foot". I suppose it occurs when someone just doesn't hear 'set foot', but it's a new one to me. Next time, ask them where they got it.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 19 - 08:03 PM

Don't worry, Bill. Raedwulf will quite likely elucidate once he's had a good night's kip...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 19 - 08:17 PM

There are mornings I step foot
first in fresh cat puke stink
My tell tale foot steps lead to the sink
But I've never heard of step foot.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 25 May 19 - 02:34 AM

Reminds me of Teresa May at (I think) the last general election, who had been 'knocking on doorsteps'.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 25 May 19 - 02:45 AM

I have been increasingly annoyed by politicians going on about Brexit and what they think is the need to "get it over the line". Are they playing rugby, or American football, or shove ha'penny - who knows?
You would think the future of the country is too important to be reduced to a game.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 May 19 - 06:04 AM

"Delivering brexit" is almost as bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: DMcG
Date: 25 May 19 - 06:37 AM

Heard on Radio 4 this morning that some sportsperson's hand is "slightly fractured". A small fracture I understand...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 May 19 - 07:17 AM

In the last 60 years.... What used to be 'Would have.....could have.... and.... should have which when shortened became would've, could've and should've...........have become would of... could of and should of in the UK..... How on earth did we get there??? Poor teaching in schools to put it bluntly.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Charmion
Date: 27 May 19 - 08:44 AM

Georgiansilver, you have a good one there. This form of words is also dealing the last blow to the subjunctive of "have": "If she would of gone home on time ..."

While we're here, let's all yell Boo and Sucks to people who insist on using phrases from foreign languages without knowing how to pronounce them. Every time I hear "coo de grah" where "coup de grace" is meant, I wince rather too visibly and hiss rather too loudly.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 19 - 09:08 AM

Yes, the correct usage of foreign phrases is, for me, a sine qua non.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 27 May 19 - 10:09 AM

Three annoying/confusing ways in which people begin the answer to a question:

So ...

Yes no ...

The point is is ... (heard on Radio 4 only this morning)

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 27 May 19 - 10:18 AM

People who say "If I would have ..." when they mean "If I had ...".


And in describing amounts:

"the most number of" instead of "most of"

and, for example:

"half of all the people in the country ..." instead of "half the people in the country ..."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 May 19 - 11:19 AM

Coo de gras, ew. Also bon appetiT.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 27 May 19 - 12:01 PM

'bonn zhaw'

'merci bokew'

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 27 May 19 - 01:48 PM

"Gunman." Just because some brute shoots somebody doesn't make him a gunman.

If I use a pair of scissors, do I become a scissorwoman? No, I'm still just a woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 27 May 19 - 03:22 PM

Not really a peeve, but interesting regarding guns, was an occasion some years ago when I heard a news report of the same incident on three BBC radio stations. On Radio 3 (mainly classical music), listeners were told that a man had been 'shot and killed'. On Radio 4 (news, documentaries, plays), the man had been 'shot dead'. On Radio 1 (pop music aimed at younger listeners), he had been 'gunned down'.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bill D
Date: 27 May 19 - 08:47 PM

I lived in St. Louis for 6 months. There were several streets I was familiar with that had interesting names I'd never have encountered in Kansas: It took awhile for me to connect the spelling on maps & signs with how the locals referred to them.

Cabanne Place where I lived was 'Cabbany'

DeBaliviere was 'De Boliver'

Gravois was 'Gra-voys' (as near as I could tell)

There were others, all sounding as if they were being pronounced by someone from The Bronx. I...umm.. adapted

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 May 19 - 08:46 AM

Well near me there's a village called Wolfardisworthy. It's pronounced "Wolsery." The ancient capital of Cornwall, Launceston, is "Lanson" unless you're an emmet. Half a mile from my house there's Widemouth Bay. Say "Wide Mouth" if you want to provoke a splutter. It's "Widmuth."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: DMcG
Date: 28 May 19 - 08:53 AM

The comedian Dave Gorman in one of his shows says there is a sign on his station for "Loughborough University." He claims he is often asked how is is pronounced and says "Low-brow University" which he finds pleasing because "it is true and false are the same time.'

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 May 19 - 10:30 AM

New UVa grad students in psych had a whole orientation on pronunciation and language... Rio Rd is Rye-oh, not Ree-oh. Monticello is chello, not sello. Grounds, not campus; first second etc -years, not freshmen sophomores. The Corner is a neighborhood. I got used to the pronunciation, but still thought of my students as juniors. There was more...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 28 May 19 - 01:51 PM

That's a good observation about the shooting, Jos.
===========
There's a pompous habit that gets on my nerves. Example:

phone rings

Leeneia: Hello
Pompous twit: Leeneia? Arthur Fotheringay.

Not "This is Arthur Fotheringay." or "My name is Arthur Fotheringay, and I'm calling about..."

Apparently I am supposed to be so focused on the incredible Arthur Fotheringay that all he has to do is utter the two words, and I'm completely absorbed in his personality. Also, I am so unimportant that he cannot waste a few polite syllables on me.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 May 19 - 04:19 PM

Tommy Cooper:

The phone rang so I picked it up and said "Who's speaking, please?"

A voice said "You are."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 28 May 19 - 04:36 PM

Here's another language peeve of mine: people who put others down using the lingo of psychiatry or psychology when the situation doesn't merit it and they lack the qualifications to assess others.

In a thread about chords, somebody started a post with "The fixation on chord names..." Now a fixation is a serious problem in a damaged mind. Telling the world that So-And-So has a fixation is arrogant and uncalled for. Naturally the post was not well-received.

We hear other examples often. Calling somebody paranoid because they're more fearful than most. Calling somebody a nympho when she's sexier than most. It's dishonest, and I dislike it.